Senche Mount. Khajiit or not Khajiit? (With the response from Lawrence Schick)

ZOS_Lawrence_Schick

OFFICIAL ANSWER: Moon Bishop Hulan says, “Many hairless ones are confused by the term ‘senche,’ since we Khajiit use it to mean a variety of things. It is used as ‘senche’ and ‘senche-raht’ to refer to two of the seventeen distinct furstocks, or ‘breeds,’ of Khajiit. The senche-raht, in fact, are the largest of us! But we also use the term ‘senche-tiger’ to refer to our more catlike cousins of lesser sentience. Indeed, depending upon the appearance of these cousins, we might even call them ‘senche-leopards’ or ‘senche-panthers.’ So you see that the term ‘senche’ is very flexible indeed, as changeable as the Moons.”

Gidorick

@Lawrence_Schick‌ ... You are awesome. Thank you very much for your response, and thank Moon Bishop Hulan for us as well.

Also, I am humbled and honored for this to be your first post here on these forums. Welcome!

Throren

So in plain english and not in khajiit speak:

Senche = Khajiit
Senche-raht = khajiit
senche-tiger = wild animals/not khajiit

And considering it's horse-like size I'll assume the mount is a senche khajiit.

That begs the question though why call wild animals by the name of senche when they are not khajiit. And if you had to name them after khajiit why choose senche when senche-tigers more closely resemble Pahmar khajiit (sp?)

Garwulf

Gidorick wrote: »

Ganacampo wrote: »

Senche are Khajiit.

So yes, it clearly is a Khajiit.

Senche-Tigers are not Khajiit. If the mount title is "striped Senche-Tiger" I wouldn't be asking.... but the Striped Senche look more like Senche-Tigers than they look like the Senche as they have been described in Lore.

And just because they're named "Senche" didn't mean they're Khajiit.

On earth the animal called a Bearcat is neither a bear or a cat. The Red Panda is not a Panda. The Mountain Goat is an antelope. The Horned Toad is a lizard. The koala bear is is more a wombat than a bear.

Oh and the Mountain Chicken is a frog.

Just because it's name has Senche in it doesn't mean it's a Khajiit.

Except their is no animal called the Koala Bear except by the ignorant.
It is as mythical as the Bunyip and the deadly drop bear.
It is actually only a Koala.

Faulgor

Throren wrote: »

So in plain english and not in khajiit speak:

Senche = Khajiit
Senche-raht = khajiit
senche-tiger = wild animals/not khajiit

And considering it's horse-like size I'll assume the mount is a senche khajiit.

That begs the question though why call wild animals by the name of senche when they are not khajiit. And if you had to name them after khajiit why choose senche when senche-tigers more closely resemble Pahmar khajiit (sp?)

Naming is strange sometimes. We call people strong like a bull or sly like a fox, although they don't resemble these animals at all physically. Likewise, perhaps there's a behavioral disposition that Senche(-Raht) and Senche-Tigers(Leopards/Panthers/etc) share that is much more apparent to the Khajiit than their physical likeness to Pahmar(-Raht).
After all, from the eyes of the Khajiit, being a cat is the norm. To us, it stands out, and it therefore makes sense to put them in the same category based on their appearance. This is not necessarily the case for the Khajiit, emphasized by the appendix of -Tiger, -Leopard or -Panther. Senche-Tiger would thus translate to "Tiger that is strong like a Senche" or somesuch, not "Senche that looks like a Tiger".

Nevertheless, to me, the new mounts are fullbloodded Senche, even though they are called -Leopard or -Lioness in the Crown Store.

Gidorick

Garwulf wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Ganacampo wrote: »

Senche are Khajiit.

So yes, it clearly is a Khajiit.

Senche-Tigers are not Khajiit. If the mount title is "striped Senche-Tiger" I wouldn't be asking.... but the Striped Senche look more like Senche-Tigers than they look like the Senche as they have been described in Lore.

And just because they're named "Senche" didn't mean they're Khajiit.

On earth the animal called a Bearcat is neither a bear or a cat. The Red Panda is not a Panda. The Mountain Goat is an antelope. The Horned Toad is a lizard. The koala bear is is more a wombat than a bear.

Oh and the Mountain Chicken is a frog.

Just because it's name has Senche in it doesn't mean it's a Khajiit.

Except their is no animal called the Koala Bear except by the ignorant.
It is as mythical as the Bunyip and the deadly drop bear.
It is actually only a Koala.

You're right but I consider it more of a cultural misnomer. Calling a Koala a Koala bear is kind of like "Native American". While it may be inaccurate we accept the name as a culture.... ignorantly. lol.

But my original point remains true for the other 5 examples.

Gidorick

Faulgor wrote: »

[snip]

Nevertheless, to me, the new mounts are fullbloodded Senche, even though they are called -Leopard or -Lioness in the Crown Store.

Where did you see these names? All I've seen is this:

Zrakie

Gidorick wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

[snip]

Nevertheless, to me, the new mounts are fullbloodded Senche, even though they are called -Leopard or -Lioness in the Crown Store.

Where did you see these names? All I've seen is this:

There is a picture going around where the 4 variations are listed and judging by the picture, only senche that actually resembles tiger is the 300 days reward one.

Quoting the picture under this.

skoomatrait wrote: »

here's some images of a new mounts

Gidorick

I can't wait to see the size comparison to the Striped Senche! They look 'about' the same size.


I think the Striped Senche is a Khajiit (since it doesn't have a suffix)... and the other mounts are just wild cats. While functionally this makes no difference, lore-wise it's quite a difference, for those of us who care.

LOL.. I thought the Nightmare Courser was a joke

Zrakie

Gidorick wrote: »

I can't wait to see the size comparison to the Striped Senche!

All the skins will be same sized as the striped one unfortunately or fortunately, how ever you want to take it

Quoting official responce:

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »

To answer the questions raised in this thread, we can confirm that we have no plans to sell the Striped Senche mount in the Crown Store. As Jess mentioned in chat during Friday's episode of ESO Live, we will offer variations of the Senche mount in the Crown Store, and those variations will be the same size as the Striped Senche we showed in the Road Ahead article.

Gidorick

Ah! Cool. Thanks @Zrakie‌

AngryNord

I'm not sure my Nord would want to ride a big cat, the Whiterun Wolfhound might Chase it away...

Circuitous

A hairless scholar came from his desert to ours and said, "I want to know the truth about the Khajiit."
And the Clan Mother said, "Only one? You are not very curious, hairless scholar."
The hairless scholar peered at the Clan Mother through little windows on his nose and said, "I want to know about your different breeds. Is it true that what phase of the moons you are born under determines your physical morphology?"
And the Clan Mother said, "Indeed, hairless scholar. I was born as Jode was waxing and Jone was new, so I am an Omhes-raht. My daughter here was born when Jode was waxing and Jone was full, so she is a Senche-raht. Thus we are nothing alike."
The scholar peered at mother and daughter and said, "You look very much the same to me."
And the Clan Mother said, "I have heard that those with round pupils have poor vision. It is a sadness."

SantieClaws

This one would like the option for her senche to have a glowing red nose please - in the spirit of Fishmas

signed

Santie Claws

Mercutio

Laplace

Mercutio wrote: »

Mercutio

Well played!

Bleakraven

Gidorick wrote: »

LOL.. I thought the Nightmare Courser was a joke

Wish it was...

AngryNord

Gidorick wrote: »

If it's just a tiger, My Regard is going to look pretty awesome running through Alik'r desert on this guy.

A Camel surely would've been much more fitting for a Redguard, given the Close parallells With Persian/Middle-Eastern culture...

Heishi

Outside of the naming convention, I figure this is much like the housecat/Alfiq debate.

@Throren‌ Italics don't really make a good citation, though it is good information. Let me get that citation for you:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/interviews-3-booksellers
This interview appears here courtesy of Douglas "AFFA MU" Goodall, currently employed by Bethesda Softworks, with some additions from Todd Howard and Ken Rolston. All answers © 2001 by Bethesda Softworks.

I work under the general assumption that not all housecats are Alfiq and not all Tigers are Senche/Pahmar.

Something to keep in mind is that a LOT of game play which the player witnesses comes from Imperial/Cyrodilic perspective. Much how Argonians' names aren't Three-Words-Long this is names used because humans can't pronounce them or an assumed translation.

That said, I suspect the random Tigers are called Senche due to wars in Elsweyr. As widespread as the Khajiit are anyway, it was probably assumed by outsiders that all Senche were Khajiit, or at least that it was safer to consider them as such.

To the original question, I'd say the mount likely is an actual Senche Khajiit as it fits the description of one (When Masser and Secunda are full, the Senche is born. The Senche is very large, but similar to the Pahmar-raht. They stand as tall as an Altmer, and can weigh as much as twenty Altmer. Other Khajiit ride them.- Jobasha, Imperial Library)

Gidorick

AngryNord wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

If it's just a tiger, My Regard is going to look pretty awesome running through Alik'r desert on this guy.

A Camel surely would've been much more fitting for a Redguard, given the Close parallells With Persian/Middle-Eastern culture...

I'm sure those will come.

Gidorick

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Thank you for also answering this question on ESO Live! For those who are curious, she said:

"They are non-sentient cousins of the Khajiit. Technically a Senche, by itself, refers to one of the furstocks, or breeds, of Khajiit. The mounts should always be referred to as Senche-Tigers to maintain the distinction."

Here it is on youtube courtesy of Shawn Brunelle:
youtu.be/WWgkxsZ5ymY?t=11m28s

My Redguard is looking forward to riding his Striped-Senche.

ALSO... I really appreciate that we have gotten to hear the pronunciation of "Senche". I have always pronounced it 'Sen-chay', rhyming with 'stay'. It's good to know it's pronounced 'Sen-ch'. sounding like 'stench' without the 'T' sound.

If anyone is interested in watching the whole ESO live, here it is on Twitch:
twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3842529

Cody

pretend its a disgusting high elf being forced to wear a tiger costume and let you ride them.

nah jk, im not like that:)

i personally can't wait to get it, and could care less if its khajit or not.

Gidorick

Cody wrote: »

pretend its a disgusting high elf being forced to wear a tiger costume and let you ride them.

nah jk, im not like that:)

i personally can't wait to get it, and could care less if its khajit or not.

Thanks for the legitimate laugh!

Anvos

I'd always thought that was the case where senche was put onto the name of many things that weren't khajite proper, though I'd put the reason on the ignorance of imperial classification than something the khajite did.

The game however still does suggest we met at least one true senche that looked like a regular large cat.

Gidorick

So we FINALLY have the Striped Senche! I had actually submitted a /feedback in game (since it goes directly to the developer teams) asking that the Striped Senche be named a Striped Senche-Tiger. Since it doesn't have the proportions of a Senche (front legs 1.5X longer than rear) it should have a suffix per the Loremaster's guidance. I had only ever heard it be referred to as a "Striped Senche" and thought that adding "tiger" would be a really quick and easy way to completely clarify that this Senche was not a Khajiit but was, in fact, simply a feline cousin of the Khajiit.

When I received my email from ZOS stating that the "Striped Sence-Tiger mount" was on it's way I was elated! So happy that it seems as if my feedback was listed to!

I have always had the feeling that our suggestions aren't really heard if they aren't accompanied by a torrent of anger, frustration, gnashing of teeth and seething fury... and sometimes not even then! This very small detail kind of rekindled that old flame of trust and wonder that I had when ESO first came out... then I got home and...

lol. TOTAL facepalm moment for me. I was happy to see that they DO clarify that the Striped Senche is "A semi-domesticated version of the wild Senche-Tiger, this distant relative of the Khajiit..." even if the name isn't "Striped Senche-Tiger"

So now we have an answer from Loremaster @Lawrence_Schick AND the IN GAME description... t's 100% conclusive, this is NOT a Khajiit.

Now... ZOS... if you DO actually listen to us, please hear that when you do eventually add the Khajiit furstock Senche please follow the lore and have: " Its forelimbs are thick and 1.5 times longer than their hindlimbs, giving them an ape-like appearance." -Khajiit Physiology - Phases and Forms

So they would look a bit more like...

All that being said! THANK YOU ZOS for giving us a definitive conclusion to this little quandary in multiple forms. I know my Redguard is excited to climb aboard his tiger... and my Khajiit is enjoying his Guar.