Senche Mount. Khajiit or not Khajiit? (With the response from Lawrence Schick)

Gidorick · February 2015

@ZOS, can you comment on whether or not the Striped Senche mount is a Khajiit Senche?

If it is a Khajiit, I'm going to consider it to be the adopted sister of my Khajiit and only he will ride her.

If it's just a tiger, My Regard is going to look pretty awesome running through Alik'r desert on this guy.

Thanks for any clarification you can provide!

ZOS Response:

Lawrence_Schick wrote: »

OFFICIAL ANSWER: Moon Bishop Hulan says, “Many hairless ones are confused by the term ‘senche,’ since we Khajiit use it to mean a variety of things. It is used as ‘senche’ and ‘senche-raht’ to refer to two of the seventeen distinct furstocks, or ‘breeds,’ of Khajiit. The senche-raht, in fact, are the largest of us! But we also use the term ‘senche-tiger’ to refer to our more catlike cousins of lesser sentience. Indeed, depending upon the appearance of these cousins, we might even call them ‘senche-leopards’ or ‘senche-panthers.’ So you see that the term ‘senche’ is very flexible indeed, as changeable as the Moons.”

Nestor · February 2015

You can RP the mount to be anything you want. You don't need ZOS to decide for you.

Smaxx · February 2015

Just look into its right ear once you get it. If there's a button inside and the fur feels like plush, it's clearly fake and no Khajiit.

emeraldbay · February 2015

Technically, the Senche are a "breed" of Khajiit, so you could certainly RP it as being such. But like others have said, you could make it an ordinary tiger if you wanted. It's not completely up to ZOS to decide.

Gidorick · February 2015

I don't want to RP whatever I want... I want to know the official answer. The only reason... ONLY reason I'm playing ESO is because it's Elder Scrolls. The lore is important to me and I'll roll with whatever lore justifications ZOS makes, but I still want to know what they are.

I know it's silly, but it's an important aspect of my gameplay.

olsborg · February 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't want to RP whatever I want... I want to know the official answer. The only reason... ONLY reason I'm playing ESO is because it's Elder Scrolls. The lore is important to me and I'll roll with whatever lore justifications ZOS makes, but I still want to know what they are.

I know it's silly, but it's an important aspect of my gameplay.

I understand and respect your vision. I felt the same way too about teso in the beginning, but they have broken so much of this games lore/immersion so I gave up and now im using it as a pvp game only. No rp, no immersion, just good old fun:)

(not saying rp or immersion isnt fun)

Gidorick · February 2015

emeraldbay wrote: »

Technically, the Senche are a "breed" of Khajiit, so you could certainly RP it as being such. But like others have said, you could make it an ordinary tiger if you wanted. It's not completely up to ZOS to decide.

Senche are Khajiit
Senche Tigers are not

Which one is the Striped Senche?

Gidorick · February 2015

olsborg wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't want to RP whatever I want... I want to know the official answer. The only reason... ONLY reason I'm playing ESO is because it's Elder Scrolls. The lore is important to me and I'll roll with whatever lore justifications ZOS makes, but I still want to know what they are.

I know it's silly, but it's an important aspect of my gameplay.

I understand and respect your vision. I felt the same way too about teso in the beginning, but they have broken so much of this games lore/immersion so I gave up and now im using it as a pvp game only. No rp, no immersion, just good old fun:)

(not saying rp or immersion isnt fun)

I'm viewing ESO as "official fan-fiction". Kind of like the Star Wars Expanded Universe.

Ganacampo · February 2015

Senche are Khajiit.

So yes, it clearly is a Khajiit.

Roechacca · February 2015

Ganacampo wrote: »

Senche are Khajiit.

So yes, it clearly is a Khajiit.

So you're saying it's ok for Khajiit to love this mount ? Will they produce more mounts ?

dharbert · February 2015

RP'ers. Overcomplicating things since the dawn of RPG's.......

xaraan · February 2015

Even if it's a Senche, aren't they sentient (ish)? So couldn't it be making a choice to work with a non-khajiit, just like other khajiit make the choice to work with other races or alliances?

BBSooner · February 2015

I think the answer is in the name, if it were a Senche-Tiger it would have been called a Senche-Tiger.

Nestor · February 2015

I just spoke to the ZOS Lore Gods. They said you can call the skin for your mount that you purchase in the Crown Store anything you want. It's a costume for your horse.

Do you really want to worry about the Lore of something that is acquired in the most non lore possible way?

Preyfar · February 2015

Nestor wrote: »

I just spoke to the ZOS Lore Gods. They said you can call the skin for your mount that you purchase in the Crown Store anything you want. It's a costume for your horse.

Do you really want to worry about the Lore of something that is acquired in the most non lore possible way?

You're talking about a game series infamous for add-ons (where people were adding Portal personality spheres into Skyrim). Does it matter how it's acquired? There's the official lore and then there's the game built around it. Giving an official answer helps build the lore and make it interesting for those who care.

And second, it's not a skin for the horse, it's entirely different mesh which will have it's own animation set. Far, far different than just a "skin for a horse".

dharbert · February 2015

It's just 1's and 0's. I'm pretty sure it won't care whether a Khajit is on it's back, or a 400 pound Nord in a wedding dress.

IrishGirlGamer · February 2015

"Even the Senche-tiger, the largest great cat in existence, has proven to be just another form of the khajiit; these massive beasts can often be found serving as steeds for their more humanoid cousins."

From Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition.

"*** They were Bosmer refugees he gathered, even before they told him. Roasting over the fire was the remains of one of the giant cats that had been stalking him through the jungle on the opposite shore.

"Senche-Tiger," said one of the young warriors ravenously. "It's no animal -- it's as smart as any Cathay-Raht or Ohmes or any other bleeding Khajiiti. Pity this one drowned. I would have gladly killed it. You'll like the meat, though. Sweet, from all the sugar these asses eat."

From A Dance in the Fire, Book III.

There may be other references to Senche in TES lore, but these are the two I could find easily.

And to state the very obvious: Yes, they are Khajiit.

Nestor · February 2015

Preyfar wrote: »

And second, it's not a skin for the horse, it's entirely different mesh which will have it's own animation set. Far, far different than just a "skin for a horse".

Functionally, it is a costume for your horse. There is no difference in performance between this mount and any other mount you acquire. All mounts are skins now. Your character determines what abilities the mount has, speedy, hardy, or strong or some combo. A different animation and mesh does not change that. It's not like your getting a Senche Mount to make your battle prowess better, or to get to a fight faster. It's just to look a certain way when your traveling across the map.

I have to ask, will you not get the mount if ZOS never tells you what the Lore is?

Gidorick · February 2015

Ganacampo wrote: »

Senche are Khajiit.

So yes, it clearly is a Khajiit.

Senche-Tigers are not Khajiit. If the mount title is "striped Senche-Tiger" I wouldn't be asking.... but the Striped Senche look more like Senche-Tigers than they look like the Senche as they have been described in Lore.

And just because they're named "Senche" didn't mean they're Khajiit.

On earth the animal called a Bearcat is neither a bear or a cat. The Red Panda is not a Panda. The Mountain Goat is an antelope. The Horned Toad is a lizard. The koala bear is is more a wombat than a bear.

Oh and the Mountain Chicken is a frog.

Just because it's name has Senche in it doesn't mean it's a Khajiit.

Gidorick · February 2015

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

"Even the Senche-tiger, the largest great cat in existence, has proven to be just another form of the khajiit; these massive beasts can often be found serving as steeds for their more humanoid cousins."

From Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition.

"*** They were Bosmer refugees he gathered, even before they told him. Roasting over the fire was the remains of one of the giant cats that had been stalking him through the jungle on the opposite shore.

"Senche-Tiger," said one of the young warriors ravenously. "It's no animal -- it's as smart as any Cathay-Raht or Ohmes or any other bleeding Khajiiti. Pity this one drowned. I would have gladly killed it. You'll like the meat, though. Sweet, from all the sugar these asses eat."

From A Dance in the Fire, Book III.

There may be other references to Senche in TES lore, but these are the two I could find easily.

And to state the very obvious: Yes, they are Khajiit.

Well... When in wrong, I admit it. I didn't know that Senche-tigers were specifically mentioned in lore. I thought they were always just called "Senche".

So ALL the Senche tigers in ESO are Khajiit then? I thought they were just beasts.

Good to know!

Thanks @IrishGirlGamer‌ !

Gidorick · February 2015

Nestor wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

And second, it's not a skin for the horse, it's entirely different mesh which will have it's own animation set. Far, far different than just a "skin for a horse".

I have to ask, will you not get the mount if ZOS never tells you what the Lore is?

If they never said (and @IrishGirlGamer hadn't pointed out that there is tons of lore on "senche-tigers" being Khajiit) I would have gone with them being just big cats.

Aeratus · February 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

"Even the Senche-tiger, the largest great cat in existence, has proven to be just another form of the khajiit; these massive beasts can often be found serving as steeds for their more humanoid cousins."

From Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition.

"*** They were Bosmer refugees he gathered, even before they told him. Roasting over the fire was the remains of one of the giant cats that had been stalking him through the jungle on the opposite shore.

"Senche-Tiger," said one of the young warriors ravenously. "It's no animal -- it's as smart as any Cathay-Raht or Ohmes or any other bleeding Khajiiti. Pity this one drowned. I would have gladly killed it. You'll like the meat, though. Sweet, from all the sugar these asses eat."

From A Dance in the Fire, Book III.

There may be other references to Senche in TES lore, but these are the two I could find easily.

And to state the very obvious: Yes, they are Khajiit.

Well... When in wrong, I admit it. I didn't know that Senche-tigers were specifically mentioned in lore. I thought they were always just called "Senche".

So ALL the Senche tigers in ESO are Khajiit then? I thought they were just beasts.

Good to know!

Thanks @IrishGirlGamer‌ !

In ESO, there are also non-tiger Senche, such as lion-styled cats. Non-tiger Senches are just called "Senche" in ESO, and behave just like tigers and any other mob. So in that regards, Senche-Tiger is just one type of Senche.

But what has not been consistency presented is the size of the Senche-Tiger. There's no good explanation as to why the Senche mobs you find in game are so much smaller than the Senche mount you're getting, where the latter is more true to lore.

Rosveen · February 2015

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

to state the very obvious: Yes, they are Khajiit.

It isn't obvious at all. The name "senche" isn't enough to determine if a cat is Khajiit. It used to be, but ESO muddled up the distinctions. There's a senche-panther available as a pet in the crown store, it definitely isn't a large battlecat Khajiit Senche are described as - and likely isn't a Khajiit at all, considering that it's sold as a pet.

There are many other kinds of non-Khajiit felines: sabre cats, lions, housecats. Some of them are physically almost identical to certain Khajiit breeds (for example Alfiq). The wild senche we meet in ESO might not be Khajiit either; an NPC on Khenarti's Roost talks about his senche as if they were simple guard cats with a sweet tooth.

I'm going to treat my senche as a Khajiit, but I'm not entirely convinced it really is one.

Gidorick · February 2015

Aeratus wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

"Even the Senche-tiger, the largest great cat in existence, has proven to be just another form of the khajiit; these massive beasts can often be found serving as steeds for their more humanoid cousins."

From Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition.

"*** They were Bosmer refugees he gathered, even before they told him. Roasting over the fire was the remains of one of the giant cats that had been stalking him through the jungle on the opposite shore.

"Senche-Tiger," said one of the young warriors ravenously. "It's no animal -- it's as smart as any Cathay-Raht or Ohmes or any other bleeding Khajiiti. Pity this one drowned. I would have gladly killed it. You'll like the meat, though. Sweet, from all the sugar these asses eat."

From A Dance in the Fire, Book III.

There may be other references to Senche in TES lore, but these are the two I could find easily.

And to state the very obvious: Yes, they are Khajiit.

Well... When in wrong, I admit it. I didn't know that Senche-tigers were specifically mentioned in lore. I thought they were always just called "Senche".

So ALL the Senche tigers in ESO are Khajiit then? I thought they were just beasts.

Good to know!

Thanks @IrishGirlGamer‌ !

In ESO, there are also non-tiger Senche, such as lion-styled cats. Non-tiger Senches are just called "Senche" in ESO, and behave just like tigers and any other mob. So in that regards, Senche-Tiger is just one type of Senche.

But what has not been consistency presented is the size of the Senche-Tiger. There's no good explanation as to why the Senche mobs you find in game are so much smaller than the Senche mount you're getting, where the latter is more true to lore.

It's these kind of things that make the Khajiit so mysterious.

Aeratus · February 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

"Even the Senche-tiger, the largest great cat in existence, has proven to be just another form of the khajiit; these massive beasts can often be found serving as steeds for their more humanoid cousins."

From Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition.

"*** They were Bosmer refugees he gathered, even before they told him. Roasting over the fire was the remains of one of the giant cats that had been stalking him through the jungle on the opposite shore.

"Senche-Tiger," said one of the young warriors ravenously. "It's no animal -- it's as smart as any Cathay-Raht or Ohmes or any other bleeding Khajiiti. Pity this one drowned. I would have gladly killed it. You'll like the meat, though. Sweet, from all the sugar these asses eat."

From A Dance in the Fire, Book III.

There may be other references to Senche in TES lore, but these are the two I could find easily.

And to state the very obvious: Yes, they are Khajiit.

Well... When in wrong, I admit it. I didn't know that Senche-tigers were specifically mentioned in lore. I thought they were always just called "Senche".

So ALL the Senche tigers in ESO are Khajiit then? I thought they were just beasts.

Good to know!

Thanks @IrishGirlGamer‌ !

In ESO, there are also non-tiger Senche, such as lion-styled cats. Non-tiger Senches are just called "Senche" in ESO, and behave just like tigers and any other mob. So in that regards, Senche-Tiger is just one type of Senche.

But what has not been consistency presented is the size of the Senche-Tiger. There's no good explanation as to why the Senche mobs you find in game are so much smaller than the Senche mount you're getting, where the latter is more true to lore.

It's these kind of things that make the Khajiit so mysterious.

The lore materials aren't actually fully clear as to whether Senche Khajiits are intelligent. The quote above certainly states that they are intelligent, but on the other hand, others suggest that they are more akin to animals:

"Seeing the ferocity of the Khajiiti warriors, Ra'Wulfharth could not bring himself to put them to death. Using the roar that Lorkhaj had given him, he spoke to Masser and Secunda, to move to their fullness in the sky. The Khajiiti warriors became Senche, but Lorkhaj stripped from them all reason."

(http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Tale_of_Dro'Zira)

IrishGirlGamer · February 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

to state the very obvious: Yes, they are Khajiit.

It isn't obvious at all. The name "senche" isn't enough to determine if a cat is Khajiit. It used to be, but ESO muddled up the distinctions. There's a senche-panther available as a pet in the crown store ***

There are many other kinds of non-Khajiit felines: sabre cats, lions, housecats. Some of them are physically almost identical to certain Khajiit breeds (for example Alfiq). Therefore it is quite possible that this loyalty reward is such a cat, domesticated and trained as a battle mount.

I agree they have softened the distinction and definition (okay, they've muddled it up). They've also been inconsistent in their use of the term Senche. For example, the hireling that brings you wood uses the term Senche to refer to a breed of Khajiit and wonders what his life would been like if he had been born under the moon that would make him Senche, implying that ESO was following the TES tradition.

Then they open the store and start selling silly crap. Whatever ESO thinks, mine will be a Senche-Tiger in the TES tradition.

Gidorick · February 2015

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

to state the very obvious: Yes, they are Khajiit.

It isn't obvious at all. The name "senche" isn't enough to determine if a cat is Khajiit. It used to be, but ESO muddled up the distinctions. There's a senche-panther available as a pet in the crown store ***

There are many other kinds of non-Khajiit felines: sabre cats, lions, housecats. Some of them are physically almost identical to certain Khajiit breeds (for example Alfiq). Therefore it is quite possible that this loyalty reward is such a cat, domesticated and trained as a battle mount.

I agree they have softened the distinction and definition (okay, they've muddled it up). They've also been inconsistent in their use of the term Senche. For example, the hireling that brings you wood uses the term Senche to refer to a breed of Khajiit and wonders what his life would been like if he had been born under the moon that would make him Senche, implying that ESO was following the TES tradition.

Then they open the store and start selling silly crap. Whatever ESO thinks, mine will be a Senche-Tiger in the TES tradition.

Maybe them muddying up the waters is a good thing... I'm sure the men and mer of Tamriel have these same questions and I doubt they're getting answered by the Khajiit.

Rosveen · February 2015

I think there's enough room in Tamriel for Khajiit of all kinds and regular wild cats too.

I'm with Nestor on this one: everyone can RP what they want. If ZOS gave me an official answer conflicting with my headcanon, I'd ignore it anyway, so...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · February 2015

We pinged our resident loremaster about this and are awaiting an answer. In the meantime, we can tell you that there was some internal discussion about whether or not the Striped Senche is a Senche Tiger or not. Though there are some naming remnants in the game (on PTS) that say it is a Senche Tiger, it actually isn't. Apparently those beasties are the size of elephants.

Kartalin · February 2015

xaraan wrote: »

So couldn't it be making a choice to work with a non-khajiit

Technically it's being sold into slavery, but I could see why you might want to put a positive spin on that

At least pre-1.6 mounts got to eat a meal 50 times. Post-patch they'll just watch their masters stuff their face.

Admittedly, RP is not something I tend to do. Probably you could notice that.

Gidorick · February 2015

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We pinged our resident loremaster about this and are awaiting an answer. In the meantime, we can tell you that there was some internal discussion about whether or not the Striped Senche is a Senche Tiger or not. Though there are some naming remnants in the game (on PTS) that say it is a Senche Tiger, it actually isn't. Apparently those beasties are the size of elephants.

Awesome! Thanks @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌! Feel free to leave the answer for ESO live (if you get it in time)