Suggestion (PVP 4x4 - 24x24x24 Battlegrounds) ESO Arenas; Be a Daedric or Aedric Champion

HeroOfNone

Oh boy, a lot

Gidorick wrote: »

First off, I absolutely LOVE the idea of having skill trees for Aedra/Daedra worship! This is one of those forehead slapping moments where you wonder why this already isn't in the game.

So… I’m going to take what you have here and just RUN with it, ok? lol

While my gut reaction is to suggest that there be a strong single-player quest line component I must admit that the multiplayer component to this concept is interesting. I do think worshiping should be a much broader concept within ESO. Having the skill-lines is a really clever way to decide on the Daedra/Aedra you are worshiping. I DO think, however, that players who are worshiping a Daedra/Aedra should be able to pray to that Daedra/Aedra OUTSIDE of this system within Nirn once per day and that prayer will give the praying player a 24 hour buff and all players within this arena type system a temporary, diminishing buff of… 2 minutes or so.

I also think the passives for the skill-line should be active while out in Nirn in PVE, in Cyrodiil or wherever. I like the idea of your active skills “unlocking” once you enter these arenas in the service of your chosen Daedra/Aedra.

Also, I think earned points should diminish over time in the order in which they are placed. So, if you stop “worshiping” you eventually lose the blessings and perks. Once all your points have weaned, you may choose to worship another Daedra/Aerdra with no ill effect. If you choose to abandon your Daedra/Aedra before all your points are gone and you worship another Daedra/Aedra, you become a Blasphemer and you are cursed with some sort of debuff. The only way to remove this debuff is to spend points to lessen, and eventually break the curse… making it harder to build up the next skill line.

Starting with a quest is fine, but I figure the skill line would be leveled up in these arenas as the basic carrot & stick of it. I went with a leaderboard to handle giving top level abilities because it could naturally diminish but not wipe out your abilities. All someone would need to do is play a bit of arenas without much grinding or prerequisites. At least that was my thought.

I've been hearing a lot on folks that would want abilities active on NIRN AND other spots, but the issue I run into is if this were a DLC are folks going to *** about a P2W senerio if they don't have the DLC or plus membership? I think a lot would cry foul over unique armor sets. Limiting it to oblivion limits the advantage, and limiting it to arenas keeps the two groups separate. At the same time I know a lot want their abilities to mean something and give them benefits in all aspects. Sorta stuck in the middle on this.

Gidorick wrote: »

The battle types could be geared a bit more toward lore and worship. This is just ‘window-dressing’ sure, but it would help these matches from feeling out of place in the ESO universe. Here are a few examples to get the ‘feel’ of what I’m talking about.

Team Death Match = Mass Sacrifice : One team worships a Daedric prince and are trying to sacrifice the other team. The team that is being sacrificed can be made up of any mixture of other worshipers and must fight for their life. In this, ALL players on the sacrificing team will be worshiping the same Daedric Prince. Certain Daedric Princes would never be the tribute Daedra of these matches, such as Azura and Meridia. The slaughtering players could be granted random special gifts by their Prince. Perhaps, if certain conditions are met, the princes themselves might intervene, but would they be there to collect their sacrifices or punish their followers for a pitiful display of devotion?

Capture the Flag = The Sigil Feud: Players are trying to open/close portals to their respective/the opposing Daedric Prince’s realm. In the middle of the map a sigil stone awaits, dormant. The sigil stone can be taken and carried by any player and can be hidden and protected in temples while it’s dormant. Players can kill those with the sigil and the sigil returns if it is not in someone’s possession for 5 seconds (basic Capture the Flag Stuff).

• Daedric Worshipers: They must kill players of the opposing teams to fill their anchor pinion. Once the pinion is full, they can activate the pinion, opening their portal, and the Sigil Stone springs to life. Opposing teams must try to prevent the Sigil Stone from being brought through to the realm of Oblivion. Once a Daedric Oblivion portal is open, lesser Daedra pour through, aiding in the fight. The Sigil Stone must be in place in the Oblivion Plane for a certain amount of time for the portal to remain open (for the team to win). During this time players can steal the sigil stone and place it in their own Daedric Realm, if they’ve killed enough players to open it.
• Aedra Worshipers: Teams of Aedra worshipers will have temples in which they can store and hide the Sigil Stone. As the Aedra Worshipers kill the opposing teams the blessings on their temple increase and that team gains buffs and opposing teams get debuffs while in their temple. This is to balance the opposing gameplay of having additional creatures to fight while sieging an open oblivion gate. If the Aedra Worshipers are able to keep the Sigil Stone safe for a certain amount of time, their team wins.
• Each team would receive points for whatever they accomplished during the match. Matches always include at least one Daedric group and one Aedric group and can include up to 6 opposing teams. Players on the winning SIDE (Daedric worshipers or Aedric worshipers) get specific points too. This is so that if one team gains the upper hand, it might behoove the other worshipers to assist in the defense of the sigil to gain the extra bonuses… or they can be greedy and try to be the winning team to get the MOST points.

Anyway… you get the idea. There are many ways to flavor this type of game play specifically to the themes presented in ESO and the service to the Aedra or Daedra should always be clear and center stage.

I think this should take place outside of the faction war… HOWEVER, all of the followers of Daedra/Aedra that is the best worshiped (on the leaderboard) in these arena games will be granted a blessing IF the majority of players that are online, at that time, in their faction, worship that Daedra/Aedra. This COULD lead to multiple factions receiving the blessing at once. If that happens, I feel sorry for that 3rd faction. Yikes! This could be updated once an hour or so. These would be on TOP of the leaderboard buffs mentioned in OP.

Heretics: An independent group could be added at some point that is the “wild-card” in all of this. These players hold no allegiance and could have their own skill-tree of “Secular Abundance” They earn points if the side they chose to play for wins a match. Let’s introduce another game type to illustrate the role a Heretic can play:

Lamb to the Slaughter: 1 VS 1-24 (however many). In this game the one player is the sacrifice, the others are the worshipers. The sacrifice has as many lives as there are worshipers (eg: 24 lives). Each Worshiper has 1 life. If the worshiper all dies, the sacrifice wins! If the worshipers take all the sacrifice’s lives, the worshipers win!

Enter the Heretics: 3 Heretics enter the match. If the Heretics kill the Worshipers more than they kill the Sacrifice and the Sacrifice wins… so do they! If worshipers win… they loose.

• Heretics do NOT join sides prior to being in the match, their side is decided by their actions.
• Heretics are NOT on a team. Each Heretic is free to decide which team to play for and may need to kill opposing heretics
• The number of Heretics should equal no more than 1/4 of the total number of players in the match.
• Heretics never have a limited number of lives.
• A Heretic’s death has no impact on the match, one way or the other.

Oh and one last thing… we would absolutely need a game called:
TheWonderousWabbajackAttack: There are multiple Wabbjacks but only one is the REAL Wabbajack and the only way you know if it’s the real Wabbajack is to USE the Wabbajack. If you have a fake Wabbajack, it backfires and you become a chicken, a mudcrab, cheese, a goat, a sweetroll, a book, or you can heal yourself, a statue, a Dremora Lord (and you become bloody POWERFUL) or whatever else could happen (decapitation, explosion become nude… etc.).

If you have the real Wabbajack you can fire the Wabbajack at players and cause them to turn into any of the above mentioned. Players can also just outright fight. The way the match is scored is dependent on a dozen or so set of different rules and the player doesn’t know which set of rules by which they are playing. At the end of the match, old Sheo comes about to announce the winner, make everyone the winner, to kill everyone and there is no winner, or to fill all the empty slots in your inventory with moldy cheese.

I'll add these into the main post. Oh, and I wasn't considering a distinct faction with this, so players can fight with or against anyone at any time. This was more of a gameplay decision, given how many want to challenge each other while on the same faction. Story wise, I imagined you're playing in a specific Daedra's realm, either praising their name or showing them and their champion's up for your own Aedra/Daedra. There could be something like a conflict arena though, like where both an Aedra and Daedra are fighting, but maybe the two fighting should be outside the patheon of worship-able dieties, to prevent story conflicts like fighting your lord.

Gidorick wrote: »

I really love the groundwork you’ve laid here and I think it would be a really awesome addition to ESO with a frightening amount of possibilities. I also think this would be a perfect way to slowly roll out content. ZOS could introduce different play types gradually so that at first there is one type of match and then once every few months a new type of match could be introduced, expanding the gameplay.

I really hate to suggest this, but the ability to play the different game types COULD be sold in the crown store to tie this concept in with that monetizing agent. Any other (different) ideas on how ZOS can make money off of this concept would be MORE than welcomed.

I imagine at least the DLC for arena could be sold. In addition different polymorphs and costumes could also be sold.

Issue with selling off maps or map packs is some may take advantage of the new unused maps to trade wins or farm. I feel if the arena package is sold, get every map to everyone to prevent any gaming of the new releases. With the amount of suggestions here we have enough to develop and have ZOS charge a moderate amount of crowns to make more than enough of profit. Just wish more folks could read through this wall of text to give their support of feedback =D

xMovingTarget

It´s a good idea. And most likely brings back some fire to the PvP crowd. I do support that!

HeroOfNone

xMovingTarget wrote: »

It´s a good idea. And most likely brings back some fire to the PvP crowd. I do support that!

Hoping this will instill some hype and new tactics in the current system. As it stands now Cyrodiil is very zerging and it's hard to counter zerg with skill or dirty under handed ganking when your facing 50+ rushing a keep. Given the lack of PVP content the imperial cit will seem to offer (seems more PVE) this would give our PVPERS something to work toward outside of mindless AP farming.

Messy1

Wow, you put a lot of time and thought into the post. I would be in favor of something like this system

DeLindsay

ZoS needs to make this happen since B2P is just around the corner and Cyro is going to be even worse of a lagfest than it is now once the flood of new Players starts pouring in there.

HeroOfNone

DeLindsay wrote: »

ZoS needs to make this happen since B2P is just around the corner and Cyro is going to be even worse of a lagfest than it is now once the flood of new Players starts pouring in there.

Agreed, having a steady lagfree battle with a possible 72 player max, or less, would also alleviate the lag issues were facing with the current system, and future. With a limited size map that could be optimized also, maybe we'd see a consistent 60+fps in some of these battles =3.

HeroOfNone

Someone on Reddit reminded me of this post dominoid73 ( @Dominoid on these forums) made as well using @ZOS_PaulSage previous AMA and discussion on battle grounds. Here's the original post link http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2wwqw6/discussion_possible_pvp_options_coming_to_eso/

And here is a bit more reading for those that don't like reddit

Spoiler

All information contained in this post should be taken as pure speculation. None of the information here has been provided, presented or verified from Zenimax Online Studios. It is one man’s effort to find all relevant information scattered around the crevices of the internet.

By now most of you have seen the 3v3v3 PVP that ZOS offered at the conventions last year. In case you missed it, here is the championship from Quakecon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMzrkRluWbU

This battle took place on a map called Colovian Crossing. It is quite a simple map with three spawn areas and a simple flag at the center which the teams vie for control of. This game-play in and of itself is somewhat boring and ZOS said it was simply put together to allow convention goers the opportunity to hop into the game and fight each other; however this set off a clamoring and want within the ESO community for smaller scale PVP options. So what else does ZOS have in store for us in the form of alternative PVP options?

In a recent Reddit AUA, user rophez asked the team, “Can we hope for a PVP arena DLC?” Creative Director, Paul Sage, replied with:

“We are still looking at plans for possible 'battlegrounds' being introduced to the game. Whether such content would be DLC (paid for expansion) or something we deliver in a normal update is not known at this time.”

Paul later expanded further by adding:

“ESO Style battlegrounds. Currently looking at defined play times (12 minutes for example) with objectives centering around varying play-styles. Capture the flag, kill the Emperor, etc. These are all still in the exploratory phase.”

There are some exciting possibilities in these two statements. Add-on authors using the available api for add-ons, have found some new strings within ESO 1.6.x that refer to these possible new game modes. Let’s look at a few now.


“Capture The Flag” Game Modes

Paul called this one out directly in his answer in the AUA. This is regular old “Capture the Flag” except an interesting 3-way flag experience.Here is what a flag carrier could potentially look like.

Classic capture the flag! Three flags spawn on each of the bridges which are owned by each Alliance by default. Capture the enemy flag while keeping yours safe! Flags cannot be taken into your home starter location.

There’s even a potential for a version of kill-the-man-with-the-flag (believed to be "murderball").

Welcome to ESO's version of "Keep away!" A banner will spawn on the [direction] Bridge. Grab the banner to earn points over time for as long as you hold the banner. Banners cannot be carried into your starting location!

Some other clues to potential variations in Capture the Flag game play:

Capture multiple banners from around the map and bring them back to your target location! Capture locations are marked with crosshairs on your map! Flag captures result in points for your team and victory!

Three banners will spawn on each of the bridges. Grab any of the banners to earn points over time for as long as you hold the banner. Banners cannot be carried into your starting location.

Earn points over time for holding the flag. Capture the flag at your Alliance colored Tower to earn 50 points. Game ends at 500 points! Game requires 15 players to start!

Get the Flag in the middle. Kill people. Earn points for holding the flag as long as you can.

Here are some rudimentary CTF Battle Ground maps found in 1.6:
Codename: 1942
Rayles Catacombs
Balfiera (discussed more below)


Small-Scale Siege Warfare

In Paul’s answer he said “ESO Style battlegrounds”. ESO would seem to be primed for the opportunity of siege warfare on a smaller scale. As an example, picture a singular fort on an island with a lumber mill, mine, farm and other objectives. The mechanics would work similar to to Cyrodiil with all the action confined to a much smaller enclosed space. There could be up to three of these maps as there exists three new XP buffs found for AVA. They are Balfiera Ownership XP bonus, Topal Ownership XP Bonus and Velothi Ownership XP Bonus. So the possibility for three strategic parts of Tamriel that provide an XP boost to the alliance that controls it. Interesting.

Here is a map for the potential “Balfiera Keep and Resources” Battle Ground: http://i.imgur.com/8DE4hxU.jpg

Balfiera Island is contested by all three alliances of Tamriel. It's a constant battlefield. Dangerous, yes, but this may be an advantage. Reinforcements are constantly being sent to Balfiera. You should have no problem joining up and shipping out with them.

Your friends in the Daggerfall Covenant would gladly send you to Balfiera Island. They always need more reinforcements for their war. Just ask for a battlemaster in one of your alliance cities.

Like just like Cyrodiil only on a more intimate scale:

The fight for Balfiera is more than just capturing the Fort at the center! There are many other aspects to war on this small slab of rock.

Battle Tasks are always running because the fight is always changing! Be on the lookout for flags that mark key locations to capture every fifteen to twenty minutes!

Fort Balfiera is fueled by support structures we call Resources. There are three of these per keep: a Farm, Mine and Lumbermill. Capture these to cripple the keep!

The Fort is the primary objective on this island. Capture Fort Balfiera, and our entire Covenant reaps the rewards both here on the island and abroad.

Misc Things Also Seen

Possible Gameplay Types/Options:
Keep and Resources
Assault
Murderball
Infection
Crazy King
Rugby
Triple Death Banner
Multiflag
CTF

Potential Battle Grounds In Development:
1942
Rayles Catacombs
Balfiera
BG Graveyard
BG Sketch Ally
BG4 AD
Leviathan BG
Hex BG

Again, none of this should be taken as gospel and could be wildly wrong, but the information presented has been scoured from some of the best and brightest in our community. Enjoy and speculate below.

Nice to see some things are in place for a lot of these ideas, but still want to see/hear more on the over all system and rewards and how this would tie into the AvAvA of Cyrodiil. Seems a lot of this is still faction locked, and is limited in scope.

JTorus

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

Nice to see some things are in place for a lot of these ideas, but still want to see/hear more on the over all system and rewards and how this would tie into the AvAvA of Cyrodiil. Seems a lot of this is still faction locked, and is limited in scope.

I remember a lot of this.... seeing the quake con footage, reading the responses and reading/listening to @ZOS_PaulSage 's statements regarding the future of pvp. It was promising to say the least. At this point a lot of us are 'settling' for pvp at its current inception. Not that it's a bad environment all the time, but it has become stale and at other times, cumbersome. Some people have become frustrated with the lack of development and the hiccups surrounding its shortcomings. This isn't because the pvp system is wholly bad, it's likely because a lot of us recognize the broad potential for more and have become frustrated with the less than luke-warm response ZOS have offered along with the lack of (perceived) easy fixes to certain mechanics.

We're all still here, we've paid our monthly $15, lots of us participated in beta. We still exhibit a true interest in the game, not just in its current state, but in all its possibilities as well. We're veterans, we're alumni. Our voice should count for something, but we need to use it in a constructive way.

Come early June, this game opens up to consoles. A date planned likely near, and around summer break (I don't know, I don't go to school anymore, but it seems about right). There will be an almost guaranteed influx of new players into this game, likely even bigger than next week's Tamriel Unlimited release.

That's when the timer starts.

People are going to eat through the content faster than ZOS's anticipations. Doesn't matter if they read every dialog line or not, some will, some won't, but it'll be a push and when they reach the end game, they're going to hit up PvP sooner or later, and they going to swiftly learn all the things us veterans and alumni already understand. Cyrodiil will not be a pretty place at that point if things do not change.

Like you stated earlier this evening to us in TS, PVP might consist of about 10% or so of the real player base. That's fine. But I can't imagine a company that's okay with frustrating even 1% of that base. The forums have become rife with toxic complaining, and I totally get that it probably polarizes the development team's interaction with the playerbase. We need to stand up and speak with a clear, mature and respectful tone. (obviously you do as much already with your contributions, it could stand that others attempt to do the same.)

ZOS had their guild summit a while back, and while it was a laudable approach, I think it was mostly efforts wasted. I don't think the communication was 'two way' enough, and I don't think the guild representation was honest to the common player. Most of the people here don't care what IR, No Mercy (what's left of them) Havoc, DiG, etc... think. (I'm using them as examples, not suggesting those were the names at said summit) Such prominent guilds have become synonymous with exploiters, cheaters, lag spammers, jaded people who do not properly represent the common everyday player. While they speak with a significantly louder voice, they do a poor job at maturely representing everyone's concerns, even if those concerns are shared and valid.

This post, the data mining, and, @ZOS_PaulSage 's very statements promises more than a hint of potential for things to come. I'm sure as a business they recognize the need to satisfy every last customer (because, at the end of the day, that is what we all are.). However, at the same time, we need to take a more constructive approach as well to ensure ZOS put this desired content on it's true 'to-do' list.

When 1.6 was on PTS there was a significant difference between the US and EU feedback. The overall EU tone offered more constructive feedback while most of US whined. Without splitting hairs over the cultural differences that likely contribute to either approach, at the end of the day, ZOS can only process so much feedback. They're likely to disregard the childish and insulting complaining and focus on the mature honest constructive criticism. I can almost guarantee that some things did not get fixed because of the insulting and immature way they were presented. It's human nature, we all do it. (Have you ever just just NOT return a phone call because you didn't like the tone of the message?)

The infrastructure for a better pvp system is obviously in place. we're all aware that ZOS is hesitant to release a thing that isn't 'well polished' (even if we may not agree with the considerations of that term). Cyrodiil is obviously a thing that isn't high up on their priority list, the re-launch and console launch is paramount at the moment. After that we know they're working on 5 PVE zones...

Generalizing here... Maybe, if we speak up clearly, maturely, and vocalize that we want more pvp content, Imperial city, arenas... if the smaller percentage making up the whole try to contribute and open a constructive dialog we can see this happen, right? Rather than venting frustrations in an immature way, or blatantly exploiting broken mechanics as a means of open defiance under the presumption that it'll gain the proper attention to the issue... rather than act in a petulant childish way we took a deep breath and spoke as adults.. .something might go our way for once.

Because honestly, if I were Paul Sage, and I dug through these forums and read the entitled childish complaining that some people try to pass off as constructive feedback... I'd let pvp rot in hell too.

This community has a lot of good ideas, we need to push harder, but respectfully to see them realized. We need to show ZOS how pvp can help them improve their product.

(holy hell, wall of text, I'm going to bed, no more whiskey)

Spottswoode

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/122373/idea-cult-factions#latest

I came up with an idea that had something similar to this (although more designed to emulate the covenant system from Dark Souls) thoug I very much like this idea. Arena style combat would be signifcantly less hectic.

fassenkugelcub18_ESO

Nice work. Good ideas. But a single problem: nobody care with. just remember the eso is out a years ago but they still did not made usefull the dungeon finder, and thats why nobody use it... and still no real endgame content in the game. Now when they change to b2p i did not except anything new...

HeroOfNone

JTorus wrote: »

show previous quotes

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

Nice to see some things are in place for a lot of these ideas, but still want to see/hear more on the over all system and rewards and how this would tie into the AvAvA of Cyrodiil. Seems a lot of this is still faction locked, and is limited in scope.

**Long rant**

Spoiler

I remember a lot of this.... seeing the quake con footage, reading the responses and reading/listening to @ZOS_PaulSage 's statements regarding the future of pvp. It was promising to say the least. At this point a lot of us are 'settling' for pvp at its current inception. Not that it's a bad environment all the time, but it has become stale and at other times, cumbersome. Some people have become frustrated with the lack of development and the hiccups surrounding its shortcomings. This isn't because the pvp system is wholly bad, it's likely because a lot of us recognize the broad potential for more and have become frustrated with the less than luke-warm response ZOS have offered along with the lack of (perceived) easy fixes to certain mechanics.

We're all still here, we've paid our monthly $15, lots of us participated in beta. We still exhibit a true interest in the game, not just in its current state, but in all its possibilities as well. We're veterans, we're alumni. Our voice should count for something, but we need to use it in a constructive way.

Come early June, this game opens up to consoles. A date planned likely near, and around summer break (I don't know, I don't go to school anymore, but it seems about right). There will be an almost guaranteed influx of new players into this game, likely even bigger than next week's Tamriel Unlimited release.

That's when the timer starts.

People are going to eat through the content faster than ZOS's anticipations. Doesn't matter if they read every dialog line or not, some will, some won't, but it'll be a push and when they reach the end game, they're going to hit up PvP sooner or later, and they going to swiftly learn all the things us veterans and alumni already understand. Cyrodiil will not be a pretty place at that point if things do not change.

Like you stated earlier this evening to us in TS, PVP might consist of about 10% or so of the real player base. That's fine. But I can't imagine a company that's okay with frustrating even 1% of that base. The forums have become rife with toxic complaining, and I totally get that it probably polarizes the development team's interaction with the playerbase. We need to stand up and speak with a clear, mature and respectful tone. (obviously you do as much already with your contributions, it could stand that others attempt to do the same.)

ZOS had their guild summit a while back, and while it was a laudable approach, I think it was mostly efforts wasted. I don't think the communication was 'two way' enough, and I don't think the guild representation was honest to the common player. Most of the people here don't care what IR, No Mercy (what's left of them) Havoc, DiG, etc... think. (I'm using them as examples, not suggesting those were the names at said summit) Such prominent guilds have become synonymous with exploiters, cheaters, lag spammers, jaded people who do not properly represent the common everyday player. While they speak with a significantly louder voice, they do a poor job at maturely representing everyone's concerns, even if those concerns are shared and valid.

This post, the data mining, and, @ZOS_PaulSage 's very statements promises more than a hint of potential for things to come. I'm sure as a business they recognize the need to satisfy every last customer (because, at the end of the day, that is what we all are.). However, at the same time, we need to take a more constructive approach as well to ensure ZOS put this desired content on it's true 'to-do' list.

When 1.6 was on PTS there was a significant difference between the US and EU feedback. The overall EU tone offered more constructive feedback while most of US whined. Without splitting hairs over the cultural differences that likely contribute to either approach, at the end of the day, ZOS can only process so much feedback. They're likely to disregard the childish and insulting complaining and focus on the mature honest constructive criticism. I can almost guarantee that some things did not get fixed because of the insulting and immature way they were presented. It's human nature, we all do it. (Have you ever just just NOT return a phone call because you didn't like the tone of the message?)

The infrastructure for a better pvp system is obviously in place. we're all aware that ZOS is hesitant to release a thing that isn't 'well polished' (even if we may not agree with the considerations of that term). Cyrodiil is obviously a thing that isn't high up on their priority list, the re-launch and console launch is paramount at the moment. After that we know they're working on 5 PVE zones...

Generalizing here... Maybe, if we speak up clearly, maturely, and vocalize that we want more pvp content, Imperial city, arenas... if the smaller percentage making up the whole try to contribute and open a constructive dialog we can see this happen, right? Rather than venting frustrations in an immature way, or blatantly exploiting broken mechanics as a means of open defiance under the presumption that it'll gain the proper attention to the issue... rather than act in a petulant childish way we took a deep breath and spoke as adults.. .something might go our way for once.

Because honestly, if I were Paul Sage, and I dug through these forums and read the entitled childish complaining that some people try to pass off as constructive feedback... I'd let pvp rot in hell too.

This community has a lot of good ideas, we need to push harder, but respectfully to see them realized. We need to show ZOS how pvp can help them improve their product.

(holy hell, wall of text, I'm going to bed, no more whiskey)

Welcome to my wonderful world of text! Your paraphrasing @yodased and I a little bit, but it is agreed that PVP is a smaller group to the over all fan base. The thing is, despite the politics, bugs, and some exploits, some of the combat and mechanics are so good we keep coming back to it. Some of it is social, some of it is the rush, but it does feel a lot more solid than other pvp game. Issues remain though with trying to get a balanced 3 way fight though. It's chaotic, takes time to get an objective, has a lot of farming, and us rife with spies. Maybe part of this is why the response to anything pvp is so toxic and mired in past issues with other players. In a situation like that I agree, why send your entire development team to work on that?

On the other hand, a lot of the framework I've layer out side steps this and gives an easy out. Small group fights are affected less by politics of Cyrodiil, or at least the amount of jerks you have to deal with in a match. With small scale matches your also more likely to get casuals involved who feel they can have an effect, where most in Cyrodiil now feel they are just going to get in the way or have not value since they are a healer, a tank, or something not built for the large scale battles. Finally, with arenas, we'd likely see more content faster, since small maps could be stand alone releases, rather major afairs.

Spottswoode wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/122373/idea-cult-factions#latest

I came up with an idea that had something similar to this (although more designed to emulate the covenant system from Dark Souls) thoug I very much like this idea. Arena style combat would be signifcantly less hectic.

Similar but this is being used to promote the idea of a worship line and battlegrounds to go with it. Some of the reference links I have get into more of the cult suggestions.

fassenkugelcub18_ESO wrote: »

Nice work. Good ideas. But a single problem: nobody care with. just remember the eso is out a years ago but they still did not made usefull the dungeon finder, and thats why nobody use it... and still no real endgame content in the game. Now when they change to b2p i did not except anything new...

We still have a few out there that care =3. Admittedly it's difficult getting feedback with this type of idea due to the WALL of text we have generated, but as most read through, or have it read to them (maybe I need a youtube clip to accompany this) folks get hyped up. Major problem is we have a lot of negativity on the forums and not a lot positive or constructive feedback on what folks want. But hey, the positive replys, agrees, and awesomes that people DO post hopefully shows how much we DO want a battlegrounds system.

Hopefully this post and others will promote this basic idea, and the rest is just a grocery store of ideas they can barging hunt the specific mechanics.

yodased

lol I was tagged into a sea of text!

I myself would never log into cyrodiil again if there was structured PvP. Tired of the FoTM broken builds, zergs, exploiters and just general ***.

Like I said last night though, the overall ROI on PvP is less than PvE for ZOS, so its ignored.

Simple math is simple.

Gidorick

yodased wrote: »

lol I was tagged into a sea of text!

I myself would never log into cyrodiil again if there was structured PvP. Tired of the FoTM broken builds, zergs, exploiters and just general ***.

Like I said last night though, the overall ROI on PvP is less than PvE for ZOS, so its ignored.

Simple math is simple.

It would sort of starve the Faction War.... I personally don't care about cyrodiil now, so this idea would gain my attention without pulling it from cyrodiil. Maybe there would be a way to incorporate these idea INTO the Faction War.

HeroOfNone

yodased wrote: »

lol I was tagged into a sea of text!

I myself would never log into cyrodiil again if there was structured PvP. Tired of the FoTM broken builds, zergs, exploiters and just general ***.

Like I said last night though, the overall ROI on PvP is less than PvE for ZOS, so its ignored.

Simple math is simple.

I heard you like @yodased so I got you some @yodased to go with your @yodased while you @yodased. I need to tag @yodased more often =D

I agree partially on the ROI with PVP, or at least the CURRENT PVP. AvAvA in a lot of these games is a rough go in a lot of cases, but I've always seen a significant amount more players doing battlegrounds in a lot of these game (warhammer online and Guild Wars 2) than those doing the AvA stuff. Part of it is the simplicity and part of it is the speed to instant gratification, but it's something that would be a good selling point. And with this suggestion, hopefully the crowns would speak where numbers wouldn't if it was offered up as a purchasable DLC.

Gidorick wrote: »

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yodased wrote: »

lol I was tagged into a sea of text!

I myself would never log into cyrodiil again if there was structured PvP. Tired of the FoTM broken builds, zergs, exploiters and just general ***.

Like I said last night though, the overall ROI on PvP is less than PvE for ZOS, so its ignored.

Simple math is simple.

It would sort of starve the Faction War.... I personally don't care about cyrodiil now, so this idea would gain my attention without pulling it from cyrodiil. Maybe there would be a way to incorporate these idea INTO the Faction War.

Maybe, but I tried to separate it so things like AP farming could be reduced, cross faction could be allowed, and to reduce griefing. In warhammer online the battle grounds used to count toward a zone flip, which lead to people throwing matches to speed it along or to hinder it, and also lead to some headaches when some fresh lvl 50 got into the battle ground for the first time and pissed off groups not knowing what to do. Not saying that wouldn't happen, but tying a win or loss to the campaign war means you'd be adding a lot more unnecessary pressure.

IcyDeadPeople

As we saw in last year's QuakeCon ESO PVP Tournament, 4v4v4 battlegrounds appear to be feasible and look like a lot of fun.

QuakeCon ESO PVP Tournament Day 1

QuakeCon ESO PVP Tournament Day 2

I imagine the main concern is how to attract players to return to Cyrodiil instead of spending all their time in the arena. I say this as someone who would probably spend all my game time playing in the arena.

HeroOfNone

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

As we saw in last year's QuakeCon ESO PVP Tournament, 4v4v4 battlegrounds appear to be feasible and look like a lot of fun.

QuakeCon ESO PVP Tournament Day 1

QuakeCon ESO PVP Tournament Day 2

I imagine the main concern is how to attract players to return to Cyrodiil instead of spending all their time in the arena. I say this as someone who would probably spend all my game time playing in the arena.

Yes, covered part of that a little later in this post . The issue with that demo and info is its still in an exploration phase and it hasn't been given a committed release yet. So in the meantime if you like the idea of this, let them know! Even the basic idea, so they keep the ball rolling =3.

JTorus

@heroofnoneb14_ESO Totally paraphrased you guys (didn't mean to plagarize!). I thought it was a good discussion, well worth pursuing in a reasonable sort of way. You and @yodased are definitely more vocal, and have contributed more to the community than someone like myself.

You guys have some great constructive ideas, in this thread and others (like Reddit) We need to see this happen more often if any of those concerns are going to be taken seriously. Other than bumping threads like this one, I honestly have no idea how to see it pick up steam.

yodased wrote: »

Like I said last night though, the overall ROI on PvP is less than PvE for ZOS, so its ignored.

Simple math is simple.

This really is the core of it all. PvP is a very small slice of a bigger product. A shame, as back in what, 2012? PvP was a big part of this game's presented features. At the end of the day this is a business, ZOS needs to successfully monetize their product, and I can appreciate that PvE is a significantly larger part of it. ZOS needs to make money, and there's nothing wrong with that. (We all like money, right?)

I would pay in crowns, or part of TU's subscriber base for access to an exclusive campaign, or a smaller exclusive arena.
I would pay in crowns for a sipend of siege equipment.
I will likely use crowns for soul gems.

I don't care about buffs, or winning a campaign, or ever becoming emperor, those things are nice, however, secondary to enjoying pvp. The pvp community is starving for more, hell @Sypher has (had?) a whole guild to self-organized dueling, complete with events and rewards. And that's just

I've had a job since I was 14 years old, all of which required no small amount of interaction with customers. I've learned there are a few different types of dissatisfied customers. The vocal, angry types tend to be a minuscule portion, yet the most noticed. Sadly these types don't always honestly represent their concerns, or offer a constructive means to a solution, yet prove to be the most time consuming and polarizing. Then there's the quiet guys. They see something they don't like, and they just leave. They may offer opinions if asked, but most of them just take their business elsewhere and you never hear from them again.

When there's something wrong with one of my projects, I don't stand up in a meeting and call the Engineer names, I don't ridicule him or vent my frustrations. I speak to him (or her) with respect I would offer any other human being. We work together to solve the problem. We've got to coax ZOS into some sort of constructive dialog, even if we just keep bumping threads like this one.

I dunno, it's a slow day at the office. (Engineers and Architects take off for golf.)

HeroOfNone

Maybe with Paul Sage'Sage's announcement on Cyrodiil performance we can expect to see some smaller scale battles become more of a prority.

@JTorus it's a good point on @Sypher 's guild. There are how many in that? 400+? For just his, with more guilds out there to support duels and smaller scale battles? This may or may not meet that 100%, but it's pretty clear the value. At this point I do quest who wants "large scale" pvp as well? Do you want to deal healing 100 of team mates who are focused and fired at by 100 enemies? I sounds and looks cool, especially in RTS games, but if your looking at proving yourself and showing off your skill, that shows off more with the smaller groups with skilled players.I dunno, maybe I'm jaded a little by some of AvAvA's short comings, but some of the massive fights either end with lag or in a chaotic mess, just like Molag Bal wanted!

Mr.Hmm

I love this, ZoS must put it in so that i can pledge myself to Sheogorath!

frozywozy

Frozy supports 100% of this thread.

Niminion

WTB all of this.

kongkim

No thx to Battlegrounds. Open worl pvp or large pvp zones. Not all this small pvp crap.
It will take people away from the other pvp areas as it always is more easy to farm pvp levels.

HeroOfNone

kongkim wrote: »

No thx to Battlegrounds. Open worl pvp or large pvp zones. Not all this small pvp crap.
It will take people away from the other pvp areas as it always is more easy to farm pvp levels.

@kongkim did you read though the rewards section? separate, no AP, with different rewards. I agree that AP farming levels would be an issue, so offering alternate rewards was my first objective.

kongkim

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

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kongkim wrote: »

No thx to Battlegrounds. Open worl pvp or large pvp zones. Not all this small pvp crap.
It will take people away from the other pvp areas as it always is more easy to farm pvp levels.

@kongkim did you read though the rewards section? separate, no AP, with different rewards. I agree that AP farming levels would be an issue, so offering alternate rewards was my first objective.

Ok i missed that But still never liked BG's in any game. So not something i like to see.
What i would really like is open world pvp. But that will never happen

HeroOfNone

kongkim wrote: »

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heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

No thx to Battlegrounds. Open worl pvp or large pvp zones. Not all this small pvp crap.
It will take people away from the other pvp areas as it always is more easy to farm pvp levels.

@kongkim did you read though the rewards section? separate, no AP, with different rewards. I agree that AP farming levels would be an issue, so offering alternate rewards was my first objective.

Ok i missed that But still never liked BG's in any game. So not something i like to see.
What i would really like is open world pvp. But that will never happen

There are a lot of flavors of pvp folks like, just like shooters. Some might like CS:GO and others like battlefield 4.. or 5? I still personally like an option of either so I can try to get a skilled group against a skilled group, or even pugs against pugs but knowing we're doing it with the same number. Still, not everyone's cup of tea and we should make sure folks can't or aren't given incentive to farm AP. some would still like AP, but I question it's value.

And we may never get open world pvp, but when player gaurds come with the justice system maybe it will be a little bit closer

Valymer

Here's the thing.

Some players have been asking since day one (probably in beta even) for an alternative to PvP other than Cyrodiil in this game.

These requests have been met with varying degrees of resistance from others, citing reasons such as "this isn't WoW," "I don't want a seasonal gear race," and "that would take players out of Cyrodiil, and this game is about large-scale AvAvA."

Fast-foward to present, where Paul Sage has recently posted a very forthcoming and yet disheartening statement about Cyrodiil performance issues, namely that ZoS has done and continues to do everything possible to improve performance there, but as of yet all their efforts have failed. He says that there is really nothing that can be done for now except to reduce the number of players fighting in one place at one time.

This problem is presumably about to get much worse in two days when the game goes B2P and hordes of new and former players begin playing ESO.

Well, as others quickly pointed out the only way to reduce the numbers in a zerg is to reduce the incentives for zerging in the first place. Ironically, the thing that might ultimately save Cyrodiil is the one thing that so many dissenters claimed would ruin it: the addition of other PvP zones to alleviate the load there.

Adding either arenas or battlegrounds (preferably both, eventually) would have the rather obvious effect of reducing Cyrodiil population across all campaigns. In fact Cyrodiil would probably become a ghost town for just a few days while everyone tried out the new modes of PvP. But once the novelty wore off I think we would see a rebalancing of the PvP population, with those who enjoy large-scale siege battles gravitating back toward Cyrodiil, while the more twitchy players would make the arenas their new home. Battlegrounds would likely be something that everyone enjoys, because they are an excellent format for those times when you want to PvP for just a little while and don't have time to mess with riding around Cyrodiil.

These two new additional modes of PvP should award alliance points as well, but should be scaled to where Cyrodiil still awards the most (in fact, go ahead and bump up the AP for capturing defended keeps/resources, killing enemy players, etc), then BGs, then arenas. This gives everyone a reason to play Cyrodiil still, but it also allows for character progression in the other modes as well. It would open up options for the player who wants to PvP.

And options are never bad, are they?

Pancake-Tragedy

I like a lot of the ideas presented in the OP.

I really like the AvA format and I would hate to see it lose more players, but with the recent discussion from the developers regarding Cyrodiil performance, it is probably time to start investing resources into an arena/battleground format.

Kuro1n

While I think that cyro could have some improvements and really needs to reward small group / duo gameplay I do think that some kind of arenas would be cool (although no bigger than 4v4v4 because otherwise cyro will just die I believe).

Soulac

GIMME ARENA!

LegendaryMage

Daedric battlegrounds would be nice indeed, skill lines and progression etc. However, Imperial City arena would be great as well but considering in what 'state' Imperial City will be upon release (daedric invasion and all), I don't think we'll be seeing any instanced pvp there any time soon.

So another alternative (and probably most cost efficient option for ZOS) would be to use and re-work Dragonstar to enable pvp in it.

You could fight players from other alliances instead and progress to fight 'higher ranked' groups each stage. The rewards system is there, the voice acting is there (maybe re-work and expand a bit) and it should be a fun thing to do.

You can also fight players from your own alliance if it's a better match made by the system. And maybe also an option to challenge a player to go to DSA and fight you, if the dueling option is a problem for some reason.

The options would go from 1v1 up to 4v4v4 etc. and other players could maybe que in to spectate matches where the crowd NPCs are at the moment.

Edit: Oh and I forgot, the system should be 'simple' as well, if you enter DSA alone, then you fight 1v1. If you enter with a group of 4, then you get to fight other groups of 4s etc. There's also some NPC outside of it if I remember well, maybe give him the option to select whether it's pve or pvp you want to do.