1.6.1 Change to Ultimate - Good or Bad?

ToRelax

Joy_Division wrote: »

While they have this idiotic method of generating ultimate in 1.6, they have to be consistent and bring Blood Spawn and Combat Frenzy in line. Blood Spawn was *already* a top 2 Undaunted set in 1.5 where ultimates are a dime a dozen, there was no way that set would be remotely balanced in 1.6.

As for Negate, I did feel it was too strong in 1.5, but if I am reading the abiltiy correctly, someone would be able to cast a effect in a negated area...doesn't that defeat the purpose? That does not sound very "ultimate" to me.

Negate was never OP in 1.6 in any way though, since they already nerfed Absorbtion Field with 1.6.0.

Sanct16

Bad. Just very very bad.

1.6 lowered my exitement about the game by 100000%.

Jaerlach

Blood Spawn has always had this cooldown, its just on the tooltip now. You could never get a 2nd proc of ultimate while you had the armor/sr buff active.

Jaerlach

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

saintmurray wrote: »

Mmmm I haven't played on pts yet. 1month into live we will really know..

My question is how does an Alliance war passive no longer count towards ....


The alliance war

What? Combat frenzy generates ult, it is in your op. Which passive are you talking about then?

Combat frenzy does not apply to killing players .. You only get that ult in PvE.

Combat frenzy doesn't work in PVE. It is only for killing players. What you lose now is the previous ultimate you would get for killing people w/o combat frenzy. That number is usually low, but sometimes people are vampires and you have passives in fighters guild.

Angavar

*looks at negate* you call that an ultimate? THIS is an ultimate *drops banner/nova/veil/meteor into negate*

But yeah, not so sure about this change to negate. Does make it seem a little underwhelming, especially with the previous nerf and considering it has no synergy.

Asgari

Angavar wrote: »

*looks at negate* you call that an ultimate? THIS is an ultimate *drops banner/nova/veil/meteor into negate*

But yeah, not so sure about this change to negate. Does make it seem a little underwhelming, especially with the previous nerf and considering it has no synergy.

It makes holding onto negates that much more important. Also the cost for negate is pretty low now so depending on the build you can pretty much drop negates never ending.

saintmurray

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Angavar wrote: »

*looks at negate* you call that an ultimate? THIS is an ultimate *drops banner/nova/veil/meteor into negate*

But yeah, not so sure about this change to negate. Does make it seem a little underwhelming, especially with the previous nerf and considering it has no synergy.

It makes holding onto negates that much more important. Also the cost for negate is pretty low now so depending on the build you can pretty much drop negates never ending.

I think thats fairwr tbh. I used to hate breaking a negate then casting an ultimate (thinking you were out of the negate) only to have to gone. I would rather break out of more then have them last longer.

Angavar

The thing I'm most concerned about is how the ulti build change will affect melee specs. Staff/bow have the luxury of being able to start their ulti gen at range, but melee will have to get right up in the enemies face in order to light attack and proc the ulti buff.

In a group situation, this seems like a massive disadvantage for melee based builds, as getting close to an enemy group is already a near death wish unless you are specced heavily into avoidance or tanking.

I don't have the time or internet speed to download the PTS, can anyone shed some light on this? Is melee going to be gimped for ultis or is it relatively balanced?

Asgari

Angavar wrote: »

The thing I'm most concerned about is how the ulti build change will affect melee specs. Staff/bow have the luxury of being able to start their ulti gen at range, but melee will have to get right up in the enemies face in order to light attack and proc the ulti buff.

In a group situation, this seems like a massive disadvantage for melee based builds, as getting close to an enemy group is already a near death wish unless you are specced heavily into avoidance or tanking.

I don't have the time or internet speed to download the PTS, can anyone shed some light on this? Is melee going to be gimped for ultis or is it relatively balanced?

No reason a melee build can't have a range from bow or stave. If you are melee I'll assume you are a MA / HA user so you should be fairly tanks and up close is where you belong anyways or pressuring the back line.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

Just so everybody is clear, Combat Frenzy still applies to killing players. They just reduced how much. Unless mobs are now 'enemy players'.

Kas

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

saintmurray wrote: »

Mmmm I haven't played on pts yet. 1month into live we will really know..

My question is how does an Alliance war passive no longer count towards ....


The alliance war

What? Combat frenzy generates ult, it is in your op. Which passive are you talking about then?

Combat frenzy does not apply to killing players .. You only get that ult in PvE.

this is just entirely wrong.
gone: ult (low amount) for the kill players of all ranks get.
still in but nerfed a bit (because it would have been buffed a TON indirectly otherwise): combat frenzy

the shift is clearly away from builds (including dps vs heal and how that influences how much you kill) that can affect ult gain too strongly. I don't see much nerfing AR24+ players here.

Tripwyr

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

I love how everybody is crying about the Negate nerf. This is a change that needed to happen. Sorcerers were far too strong, and a group of 16 Sorcerers was far strong than a balanced group of players. Anytime you could sacrifice another class for a Sorcerer, your group became stronger.

This change means that while still strong (Negate removes other ultimates), Negate is no longer mandatory and fights will no longer dramatically shift toward the team with more Negates.

The Combat Frenzy and Blood Spawn changes were equally vital in the new ultimate meta. Combat Frenzy is arguably still OP in an area where the only other way to generate ultimate is through the new mechanic. Combat Frenzy means that new players or players leveling new characters are at a severe disadvantage compared to existing players, increasing an already very steep power curve.

Overall I am very happy with this new patch.

I understand the change to blood spawn more than anyone seeing as I had the set first on NA PvP. Got them both the first week in one run haha. Used it ever since on the DK and it showed how op it is. However, removing the combat frenzy passive from alliance war is unacceptable.

Why even have it as an alliance war passive? Just make it a passive in undaunted or something so people are aware it has nothing to do with pvp anymore.

Galalin wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

I love how everybody is crying about the Negate nerf. This is a change that needed to happen. Sorcerers were far too strong, and a group of 16 Sorcerers was far strong than a balanced group of players. Anytime you could sacrifice another class for a Sorcerer, your group became stronger.

This change means that while still strong (Negate removes other ultimates), Negate is no longer mandatory and fights will no longer dramatically shift toward the team with more Negates.

The Combat Frenzy and Blood Spawn changes were equally vital in the new ultimate meta. Combat Frenzy is arguably still OP in an area where the only other way to generate ultimate is through the new mechanic. Combat Frenzy means that new players or players leveling new characters are at a severe disadvantage compared to existing players, increasing an already very steep power curve.

Overall I am very happy with this new patch.

How is combat frenzy OP in PvE? The ppl who have it also have gear already and 99% are vet14. No new gear or content. Whats the use of it now... nevemind the fact it was a PvP earned passive. Possibly to grind the new skills? Hardly OP

Bouvin wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

I love how everybody is crying about the Negate nerf. This is a change that needed to happen. Sorcerers were far too strong, and a group of 16 Sorcerers was far strong than a balanced group of players. Anytime you could sacrifice another class for a Sorcerer, your group became stronger.

This change means that while still strong (Negate removes other ultimates), Negate is no longer mandatory and fights will no longer dramatically shift toward the team with more Negates.

The Combat Frenzy and Blood Spawn changes were equally vital in the new ultimate meta. Combat Frenzy is arguably still OP in an area where the only other way to generate ultimate is through the new mechanic. Combat Frenzy means that new players or players leveling new characters are at a severe disadvantage compared to existing players, increasing an already very steep power curve.

Overall I am very happy with this new patch.

How is combat frenzy OP in PvE? The ppl who have it also have gear already and 99% are vet14. No new gear or content. Whats the use of it now... nevemind the fact it was a PvP earned passive. Possibly to grind the new skills? Hardly OP

The bigger question is why would a PvP passive not be useful in PvP?

Some major shortsightedness on the dev's part there...

Guys, they didn't remove Combat Frenzy from PvP. There is a baseline ultimate generation for kills independent of Combat Frenzy, that is what they removed. Combat Frenzy is still in the game.

Asgari

Tripwyr wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

I love how everybody is crying about the Negate nerf. This is a change that needed to happen. Sorcerers were far too strong, and a group of 16 Sorcerers was far strong than a balanced group of players. Anytime you could sacrifice another class for a Sorcerer, your group became stronger.

This change means that while still strong (Negate removes other ultimates), Negate is no longer mandatory and fights will no longer dramatically shift toward the team with more Negates.

The Combat Frenzy and Blood Spawn changes were equally vital in the new ultimate meta. Combat Frenzy is arguably still OP in an area where the only other way to generate ultimate is through the new mechanic. Combat Frenzy means that new players or players leveling new characters are at a severe disadvantage compared to existing players, increasing an already very steep power curve.

Overall I am very happy with this new patch.

I understand the change to blood spawn more than anyone seeing as I had the set first on NA PvP. Got them both the first week in one run haha. Used it ever since on the DK and it showed how op it is. However, removing the combat frenzy passive from alliance war is unacceptable.

Why even have it as an alliance war passive? Just make it a passive in undaunted or something so people are aware it has nothing to do with pvp anymore.

Galalin wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

I love how everybody is crying about the Negate nerf. This is a change that needed to happen. Sorcerers were far too strong, and a group of 16 Sorcerers was far strong than a balanced group of players. Anytime you could sacrifice another class for a Sorcerer, your group became stronger.

This change means that while still strong (Negate removes other ultimates), Negate is no longer mandatory and fights will no longer dramatically shift toward the team with more Negates.

The Combat Frenzy and Blood Spawn changes were equally vital in the new ultimate meta. Combat Frenzy is arguably still OP in an area where the only other way to generate ultimate is through the new mechanic. Combat Frenzy means that new players or players leveling new characters are at a severe disadvantage compared to existing players, increasing an already very steep power curve.

Overall I am very happy with this new patch.

How is combat frenzy OP in PvE? The ppl who have it also have gear already and 99% are vet14. No new gear or content. Whats the use of it now... nevemind the fact it was a PvP earned passive. Possibly to grind the new skills? Hardly OP

Bouvin wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

I love how everybody is crying about the Negate nerf. This is a change that needed to happen. Sorcerers were far too strong, and a group of 16 Sorcerers was far strong than a balanced group of players. Anytime you could sacrifice another class for a Sorcerer, your group became stronger.

This change means that while still strong (Negate removes other ultimates), Negate is no longer mandatory and fights will no longer dramatically shift toward the team with more Negates.

The Combat Frenzy and Blood Spawn changes were equally vital in the new ultimate meta. Combat Frenzy is arguably still OP in an area where the only other way to generate ultimate is through the new mechanic. Combat Frenzy means that new players or players leveling new characters are at a severe disadvantage compared to existing players, increasing an already very steep power curve.

Overall I am very happy with this new patch.

How is combat frenzy OP in PvE? The ppl who have it also have gear already and 99% are vet14. No new gear or content. Whats the use of it now... nevemind the fact it was a PvP earned passive. Possibly to grind the new skills? Hardly OP

The bigger question is why would a PvP passive not be useful in PvP?

Some major shortsightedness on the dev's part there...

Guys, they didn't remove Combat Frenzy from PvP. There is a baseline ultimate generation for kills independent of Combat Frenzy, that is what they removed. Combat Frenzy is still in the game.

Read it wrong and realized this after I reread it. This still ruins my idea for a kb build.

Sharkan

Anything reducing the amount of ultimate gain can't be bad.

Right now, on 1.5, it's possible to generate ultimate so fast that you can almost spam a new one as soon as the 1st one is over.

I like to think of ultimates as...well...ultimate skills you build up and keep for special occasion. It's for tactical play, and not a 6th skill on your bar with a special way to build it.

Sallington

The less ultimates in Cyrodil, the better IMO.

Asgari

Sallington wrote: »

The less ultimates in Cyrodil, the better IMO.

You are forgetting each class has a low cost ulti that does decent damage .. Some more than others. Ulti will still be used like crazy .. It still gens very fast in 1.6

Valnas

this is healthy for the game. painful for us using these builds but, i shouldn't be dropping two 200 cost ults w/i the same cool down as a non emp all day.

Aoe_Barbecue

They should just put ultimate abilities on cool downs and have all skills that contribute to ulti generation lower the cool down by a set amount of seconds. I don't think ZoS even knows wtf it's doing anymore.

Lorkhan

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

They should just put ultimate abilities on cool downs and have all skills that contribute to ulti generation lower the cool down by a set amount of seconds. I don't think ZoS even knows wtf it's doing anymore.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

no

Asgari

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

They should just put ultimate abilities on cool downs and have all skills that contribute to ulti generation lower the cool down by a set amount of seconds. I don't think ZoS even knows wtf it's doing anymore.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

I'd rather see ult cool downs than flat out nerfing everything ... I get all of the posts in the PvE section and pts section regarding blood spawn set. Many spent weeks on end to acquire the set only to have it nerfed now.

Then they take one of the most valuable passives and Nerf that too. I understand they anticipate a new player base but why punish those who've stuck around through your wretched paid beta phase?

I myself worked on getting combat frenzy 2/2 on 3 different characters now to find out it was a waste since the new baddies can't keep up.

Aoe_Barbecue

Lorkhan wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

They should just put ultimate abilities on cool downs and have all skills that contribute to ulti generation lower the cool down by a set amount of seconds. I don't think ZoS even knows wtf it's doing anymore.

no

Your discussion was peerless; I may have achieved enlightenment from the sheer expansiveness of your wisdom. Where does one subscribe to your news letter?

Lorkhan

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

They should just put ultimate abilities on cool downs and have all skills that contribute to ulti generation lower the cool down by a set amount of seconds. I don't think ZoS even knows wtf it's doing anymore.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

I'd rather see ult cool downs than flat out nerfing everything ... I get all of the posts in the PvE section and pts section regarding blood spawn set. Many spent weeks on end to acquire the set only to have it nerfed now.

Then they take one of the most valuable passives and Nerf that too. I understand they anticipate a new player base but why punish those who've stuck around through your wretched paid beta phase?

I myself worked on getting combat frenzy 2/2 on 3 different characters now to find out it was a waste since the new baddies can't keep up.

looks like you are afraid of the newcomers

jopeymonster

So basically, in 1.6.1 PvP, you now only generate ult through standard attacks or healing someone with the ult gen buff, AND/OR you kill a player when you have Combat Frenzy specced, OR class generating ult through kills (NB Soul Harvest example)?

If that's true, it's seems OK.

Negate needed to be tuned down. It's suppose to be a defensive ability, but like most op ults, it was being used offensively more then defensively.

@Tripwyr‌ said it best:

Tripwyr wrote: »

Anytime you could sacrifice another class for a Sorcerer, your group became stronger.

I, for one, like the change to clear AOE on cast. It's unique and useful without being too powerful.

Asgari

Lorkhan wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

They should just put ultimate abilities on cool downs and have all skills that contribute to ulti generation lower the cool down by a set amount of seconds. I don't think ZoS even knows wtf it's doing anymore.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

I'd rather see ult cool downs than flat out nerfing everything ... I get all of the posts in the PvE section and pts section regarding blood spawn set. Many spent weeks on end to acquire the set only to have it nerfed now.

Then they take one of the most valuable passives and Nerf that too. I understand they anticipate a new player base but why punish those who've stuck around through your wretched paid beta phase?

I myself worked on getting combat frenzy 2/2 on 3 different characters now to find out it was a waste since the new baddies can't keep up.

looks like you are afraid of the newcomers

How does anything I've said state I'm scared of new players?

I am clearly conveying my issue that there will always be newcomers and they shouldn't penalize those who have been around since the begging to appease the new ones.

Either you didn't read what I said or you have massive comprehension issue that you should address before taking the time to respond to the greatest comment to lol ratio 5 star forum master again.


K. Thanks!

Aoe_Barbecue

I insightful'd your post just to lower your ratio.

Sypher

I don't care how fast or slow the ult is.

I just want a fully DYNAMIC way to gain ult. NOT a STATIC base with some dynamic on top.

Ezareth

Sypher wrote: »

I don't care how fast or slow the ult is.

I just want a fully DYNAMIC way to gain ult. NOT a STATIC base with some dynamic on top.

I just don't want my primary ultimate generation routine to be a Farmville competitor.

Aoe_Barbecue

The new group meta: entire group autoattacks with staves or bows at range -> rapid maneuver kiting -> refresh ulti gen buff -> rapid maneuver kiting -> ulti bomb. (i) If enemy group dies, /rake and move on. (ii) If enemy group lives, repeat kiting meta.

Just imagine your whole group getting meteor'd. lmao

eventide03b14a_ESO

This is a good change. Before you could just block cast and regenerate insane amounts of ultimate essentially trivializing ultimate abilities. This was especially true for certain classes (I'm looking at you nightblades) and gave them a distinct advantage. This along with the higher cost of blocking I think are welcome changes. I'm actually be warming up to 1.6 and might just resub.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

They should just put ultimate abilities on cool downs and have all skills that contribute to ulti generation lower the cool down by a set amount of seconds. I don't think ZoS even knows wtf it's doing anymore.

That's going too far.