How Long Does it Take You to Get a Champion Point?

McDoogs

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Well I for one like the system, and think most of you are thinking far too short-term. It's supposed to be something that provides us some continual progression over a long period of time, not something to be grinded to max in a month or two.

The CP system is not 'the game', it's a background thing that ticks away whilst you play the actual game. Everyone in their insatiable rush to be the best, get to the 'max' or what-have-you, seems to forget that simple fact.

People keep talking like there's nothing to do to get CP's. Have you not read about what new content ZOS plans to release and work on over the next year? And do you think they will stop releasing content in two years time? In three, four? No, of course they won't. CP is not new content, it's a tweak to the mechanics that will hopefully provide us players with a meaningful, consistent and prolonged return for character development for years to come whilst new content is added. No one's expecting you to acquire the maximum amount of CP in the game in it's current state, ZOS has said as much plainly in previous ESO Lives broadcasts as well through other mediums of release.

The problem players have is that they are looking short term and selfishly and for some reasons refusing to realise what the CP system actually is for. It is not content, it's a mechanical change that provides the framework to build the game for years to come.

The same players that complain now that it's 'too much of a grind', are the players that will complain that there's 'no progress' in future when new content is released if ZOS reduce the CP experience requirements to trivial levels now.

Pretty sure this guy's trolling at this point, he keeps recycling the same stupid 'argument'.

Berinima

I don't feel offended, not by you... I feel offended by the patch. The problem is that the champion system is way more vertical than advertised and a huge power gap will occur over time and not every playstyle is rewarded the same.

But I will also stop repeating myself now. It is just a balancing nightmare. You have been warned, ZOS.

Lionxoft

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys! For those who feel like the time it takes to gain a Champion Point is too slow, can you let us know exactly where you were playing (which dungeon, questing area, etc)? Thanks!

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
Cyrodiil. 44+ hours and 2 points earned. Top 5 on the leaderboards. Fix it please.

NukeAllTheThings

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Well I for one like the system, and think most of you are thinking far too short-term. It's supposed to be something that provides us some continual progression over a long period of time, not something to be grinded to max in a month or two.

The CP system is not 'the game', it's a background thing that ticks away whilst you play the actual game. Everyone in their insatiable rush to be the best, get to the 'max' or what-have-you, seems to forget that simple fact.

People keep talking like there's nothing to do to get CP's. Have you not read about what new content ZOS plans to release and work on over the next year? And do you think they will stop releasing content in two years time? In three, four? No, of course they won't. CP is not new content, it's a tweak to the mechanics that will hopefully provide us players with a meaningful, consistent and prolonged return for character development for years to come whilst new content is added. No one's expecting you to acquire the maximum amount of CP in the game in it's current state, ZOS has said as much plainly in previous ESO Lives broadcasts as well through other mediums of release.

The problem players have is that they are looking short term and selfishly and for some reasons refusing to realise what the CP system actually is for. It is not content, it's a mechanical change that provides the framework to build the game for years to come.

The same players that complain now that it's 'too much of a grind', are the players that will complain that there's 'no progress' in future when new content is released if ZOS reduce the CP experience requirements to trivial levels now.

Yeah, we have read what is coming up. Actually we have actually seen the freaking previews that were hyped at Quakecon last JULY.....6 MOHTS AGO. ZOS has already said that no new content (at least you realize this Champion System isn't content) until after things settle after console release. So that leaves us over a year since they showed all of this great new upcoming content before we can expect to see it.

Rammi

This thread is so depressing!!

Its not because the progression is so slow its that they have made part of the game have no meaning in the progression for examples, crafting, gathering, Thieving.

All the stuff i find fun is not deemed progression and then of the stuff that you can progress in my most enjoyable part PVP is still gimped!

ah well i guess that was to be expected

Tyr

Lionxoft wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys! For those who feel like the time it takes to gain a Champion Point is too slow, can you let us know exactly where you were playing (which dungeon, questing area, etc)? Thanks!

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
Cyrodiil. 44+ hours and 2 points earned. Top 5 on the leaderboards. Fix it please.

It takes 30 minutes to do 20 dailies in cyrodiil which will get you 1 CP if you're enlightened.

Berinima

Tyr wrote: »

It takes 30 minutes to do 20 dailies in cyrodiil which will get you 1 CP if you're enlightened.

That is great news! However, if I am in the PvP zone I just might... wanna... you know... do some PvP. I DO NOT want to be FORCED to do daylies.

Tyr

It took me 15 minutes doing only the fastest fetch quests in 3 daily quest hubs in cyrodiil to get 1 CP. After that It took me a solid 2 hours doing the other 30 cyrodiil dailes plus about 1 hour of cadwell's gold quest grind to get the next CP.

There is literally nothing you can do if you've already hit endgame PvE to get CP at anything close to 1 hour enlightened. There is literally only Cyrodiil dailies.
Everything else is an order of magnitude slower.

Berinima

I might repeat myself here... But... I... don't... want... to... do... daylies. If I wanted to do daylies I would play "WoW" or "Random MMO: Grind your balls off". I want to do PvP. I do not want to worry how to get my progression. If I have to once the patch goes live then I cancel my sub. But that's just me and does not have to influence you or anybody else whatsoever.

McDoogs

Cyrodiil daily quests are at least as boring as grinding mobs imo

Berinima

Does this make things any better?

Saturn

Lykurgis wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

How Long Does it Take You to Get a Champion Point?

Too long.

I'm at 72, 548/400,000 for my first champ point. This will literally take the rest of my natural born life at 4990XP for a single quest and 128xp for a mob kill.

Have they changed exp then? I ran around in Spellscar (on the Live server) killing vr11 mobs and found that normal mobs give 495 xp and elite mobs give 995 xp, this is when I was at vr14 leveling skills. It is the same 495 xp for killing zombies in Riften too.

EDIT: I believe that completing the daily gold vet pledge also gives a little under 12k xp.

DeathDealer19

spellscar xp is not the same as it is on the live server. all the useless arguing is a waste of time. this thread is about whether or not 400k XP for 1 CP is too much. and its plain and simple. IT IS. yes im sure there are super hardcore grinders who can somehow manage it in 1 hour with full enlightenment, but that's with a dead population server and mindless grinding. Most players like me have done nearly every quest in the current content and just don't have options to come anywhere close to 400k XP in a single hour. Hell even if we had new quest zones, its not possible with current quest and mob xp rewards.

The amount needs to be reduced. If me and other veteran ESO players can spend a solid 4+ hours in one sitting questing/doing vet dungeons/trials and not even get 200k XP (which is halfway to one CP), then its too high. I haven't tested cyrodil dailies yet which I plan to today actually, but Im not going to spend 6 hours a day in cyrodil doing pve quests just to get 1 CP. Im going to say again, 100k XP per 1 CP should be the max. I think 50-100k XP is easily obtainable in an hour no matter what type of player you are. PVP, PVE, solo, group, quest, grind, delve, trial. Any of those options would easily let you hit that goal.

@ZOS_GinaBruno some feedback to any of this discussion would be appreciated. Id personally like to know what ZOS feels so far based off of player reactions, testing, and ZOS testing. (I sure hope someone at ZOS is testing this XP-CP gain with us...if not, hire me please)

Berinima

While I personally agree with you that 50k to 100k should be the absolute maximum amount for a CP every other problem stated here still persists. People do not want to be forced to do any specific activity to develop their character, at least not in that almost unlimited scope. Also people need to be able to catch up quickly otherwise a huge power gap will occur over time.

What could work is lowering the amout of XP to say 50k but also limiting the amount of CP you could acquire for your character to a fixed amount (let's say two) multiplied by every day the system is in place. So YOU can get two CP every day but if I however start one week later I can get 14 on my first day.

This however STILL doesn't handle the power gap that occurs when I start half a year from now. And our characters are STILL gimped to the state the game is live now.

The system is fundamentally flawed.

Exstazik

150k XP per 1 CP will be enough.Also enlightened should give x2 not x4 boost.

DeathDealer19

well I understand people not wanting to be "forced" to play a certain way but come on this is an MMO. you have to do something that gains XP in order to level. that's how every video game is. Im sorry that standing around rawlkha "rping" on the rock does not get you XP lol. neither does running around coldharbour farming flowers. I mean this is gaming 101. You have to actually do something to get xp.

Catching up is not an issue in my eyes. The champion system is a progression system. I have spent more time than most people in this game and im getting rewarded the same amount that a fairly new player would get. Everyone is on a pretty even playing field. Myself and all the other ESO players should not be "limited" to how many CP we can earn simply based off other people who might get the game 6 months down the road.

Yes people who play more will obviously be able to earn more, but that's how every game is. People who don't play as much, will have enlightenment to keep them on pace with the people who are always on.

Berinima

I must disagree. If you tie progression to gear grind you are always able to catch up if you skip some tiers. Also if you have a look at release cycles in for example WoW you will notice that with every major expansion the progression is somewhat resetted to zero by introducing new super-easy-to-acquire drop gear that is better than everything before. While this is not ideal as well, it is kind of mandatory to keep the game alive. You can't have this with an endless XP tied system unless you award CP Points for free at some point in the future.

In addition, gear is always tiered, meaning you have time to catch up because the content is gated. People that are very efficient at acquiring gear have an advantage in a certain time frame but their progression is stale from then on.

Both is not true for an (almost) endless progression system without tiers and gates. If one player is behind the power gap, he will always be behind. Depending on his efficiency he might be behind even more after some time has passed.

As I mentioned in several posts, I am NOT the benchmark for the MMO market. I am playing ESO for two reasons: First, I am a PvP player and ESO provided good PvP so far. I did not feel the need to progress other than levelling my Alliance War skill lines or progressing horizontally by unlocking different morphs. Second, ESO provided soft progression because while there was some kind of treadmill, it was very bearable so far.

With the introduction of this system both are no longer true, therefore I will cancel my sub if this goes live without strong revision. Maybe no one will care about that and that's fine, but after reading through these threads I am confident that many other players feel the same.

PlagueMonk

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys! For those who feel like the time it takes to gain a Champion Point is too slow, can you let us know exactly where you were playing (which dungeon, questing area, etc)? Thanks!

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

So background - I am VR14 in live and most of my game time has been on that VR14 because I enjoy the character so my initial testing was to try and mimic what I would normally do on that character which amounts to - run around gathering materials and killing whatever I encounter on the way, dropping into a couple of delves for fun and provisioning bits, do crafting dailies and play some PvP. I did this in Eastmarch - and in over 2 enlightened hours got maybe 10% of the way to a CP.

Today I changed pace a bit and did the main quest from start through to Chapter 3.5 - that plus travel encounters, exploration finds plus a couple of random dolmens got me the rest of the way.

My concern is that this is fine if you have a barrel full of quests left to do but not so good if you just want to 'play'.

ANNNNNNND, the other shoe now drops.

We TOLD Zenimax this would happen. Those who have not done their quests will very quickly outpace those who have finished all their quests (PvP, main, silver, gold and craglorn) like myself. It will take us (those out of quests) it appears 4x as long to get 1 freakin' CP.

This is the reason WHY we balked at a mere 30 CP reward (and even a 70 CP reward). V14s should be given at least 4x MORE so about 300 CP. if you plan on keeping the end game content horribly nerfed.

Also, the fact you stripped out some of our abilities and stats (seems mobs were scaled to 10x while our stats were scaled by 5-6x and potion effectiveness was removed from the NB passives and Argonian racial.......just 2 examples) and stuck them into the CP system is NOT cool. Forcing us to re-earn what we already had before was an ultra lame maneuver. Even more reason why V14s deserve closer to 300 as a start value.

DeLindsay

I just got my first CP last night (I've been on PTS every day since 1.6 hit). I haven't done any Dungeons or Trials or Grinding spots. I have almost exclusively been working on Thievery the whole time. You get 915 XP (if you are VR14) from the Safeboxes in Towns (VR4+) as well as the normal Chests around Tamriel. If I had to guess, I have ~20 hours invested on PTS since Tuesday and am now 1/10th into point 72. This is certainly slow by any standards but as I'm not properly testing how fast I can actually gain a CP I'm not sure how much my example counts.

Ysne58

I got my first cp after 6 hours of play, the second after about 1 1/2. I turned in a bunch of quests after I got the first one.

I believe that if the devs were to count inspiration from crafting and AvA gains towards progress on a CP, that might make a huge difference.

Berinima

You are also not the benchmark for the MMO industry. Move on. Nothing to see here. Much grind! Many progress! So amaze! Wow!

Bouvin

Elder_III wrote: »

I think you get Enlightenment for not playing. It's supposed to help the people that only can play 5-10 hours a week from falling too far behind.

No, it's a system they plan on monetizing. The only way to advance at a decent rate for CP will be while enlightened.

Enlightened will only last for a short time, and they will sell you "Boosters" in the cash shop that make you enlightened for a period of time.

Do people seriously not understand how Cash Shop MMOs work?

Bouvin

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

i post these calculations to show how ridiculous the current state is, its called feedback also they were not based on what zenimax said but on times that were posted here by players.

Unfortunately, the current rate of CP gain is what will make it into the live.

They have already done the math and figured out how much they will make in the crown shop off CP/Enlightment boosters.

Joejudas

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

a

prototypefb wrote: »

Can any1 test how long it takes currently on PTS to earn 1 CP while you do RP, or craft gear?
Why is XP only viable way to earn CP?
There is no balance, fix it, please, ZOS
you wonder how? there you go, check option 3, you're welcome!

Why do you need a MMO to RP in the first place?
Especially one that has so few RP elements as ESO.


There is a huge difference between RP and RPG that some don't seem to get.
The "G" - it stands for "game".
A game is defined to be "a form of competitive activity (...) played according to rules".
-> definition
Rules, those a the things that restrict you in whatever way the game designer wants.
Every game revolves around it's rules. Actually those rules are where the fun comes from.
Imagine chess if I could play like this on my first move: "See this pawn? He's an assassine and kills your king just like that. Checkmate."
Or imagine chess in a "fair" world, where every piece is a king.
Ether of those two would make playing the game pointless, because as I said:
games need rules.


I perfectly understand that sometimes you don't want to follow any rules.
But then tell my, why do you want to play a game with it's given rules at the same time?
There are plenty of other platforms, like forums, chats and virtual worlds (second life). Where you are free to do what ever you feel like.

ESO is already different mmo(for good or bad, up to you to decide) i believe this CP system will force too much grind(commonly known mmo feature) in the game and instead pigeonhole and bore the crap out of people while doing it.
System should be open not forced.

The question should be: "Am I really forced that much?"

This whole to me it seems as most people dislike the CP because they are in this "OMG I got to grind 3600 CP to be competitive"-kind of mindset.
Which I think could be considered BS.

What follows is my thoughts about the CP-system, I do not claim this to be correct.
With 30 points per constellation and you already have most of the gain that comes with the CP. Also at 30 points in one star you are at 7.5% of 15% max. (if I'm not mistaken)

Depending on role and play-style there is a priority star/constellation (each color) where one should dump their first 30 points. Like my NB surely wants her first 30 blue points put into ritual in order to be an acceptable damage dealer.
Those first 90 points to me feel like the "must have" that replaces the VR. But after that all points are more or less nice to have.

Sure things like +15% weapon damage from the atronach sounds good, but it only applies on light/heavy attacks which do like maybe 5% of my DPS (estimated value). Now +0,75% don't sound that good anymore.

Back to the first 90 points:
Those are the ones that you "need" to be competitive.
For someone who is VR14 now that means 20 additional points, which should be possible to achieve within a week.
For a casual player who might not even be V1 this still is less way to go than Veteran Ranks were since there is this enlightenment buff. With the buff you need only 9 million XP whereas you need 13 million XP to reach VR14.

Again, is just as I see things at the very moment. This might be proven correct or wrong within the next few months.

first of all its 70 points for a vr14 not 90....and those 20 you need require you to go around the wheel three time each...so its an extra 60 points you need to gain 20 for a single area. At 1 cp every 3 or 4 hours...if you played the whole 7 day week without leaving your pc for any reason you would still only get around 45 points. So i would disagree with your statement

I don't know why you wrote this. But you should either think before answering or don't answer at all if you are tired.

Because I have written that you start with a total of 70 points.

And if you do so you need to earn another 20 points to have a total of 90.
You stupid idea (sorry, but that's what it is) of getting another 60 points would result in you having 130 points total.

Getting 20 points will take you like a week as a non-casual player.

so based on your testing on the pts...how many cp points have you gained in what time period then ? Because I have tested it and the best exp grind in the game gives you 4 points a mob pull while enlightened and around 1000 when not enlightened....towards a 400k cp....meaning it takes around 4 or 5 hours of non stop grinding...and you will only get 1 cp a day if you lucky doing dungeons and pvp non stop . So your wrong about it taking a week. it will take you months

Jando

It amazes me that there have been so many thoughtful posts on this thread in less than a week. How could ZoS have missed these things after working on this system for probably close to a year? It baffles me. I love this game, and they do so many things right. But when it comes to this system,they just seem lost after all of this time.

Here are some of the major points brought up in this thread:

1. Each point is too expensive (in xp)

2. Each point is too weak in what it offers

3. There are too many points in total.

3. 1, 2, and 3, above, make the proposed system an endless, meaningless grind

4. There is no way for many Veteran players to participate in the system because they have exhausted much of the quest content that grants the chunks of xp needed to advance in the system.

5. 4, above, means that the conversion of VR level to Champion points is fundamentally flawed because it fails to consider completed quest content.

6. To solve 5, above, there needs to be a significant grant of additional Champion Points to players based on the quest content they have completed.

Jando

Bouvin wrote: »

Unfortunately, the current rate of CP gain is what will make it into the live.

They have already done the math and figured out how much they will make in the crown shop off CP/Enlightment boosters.

I've been trying to avoid the sad truth of your statement. I'm really hoping that Zenimax understands that the way to make money on the game is to release fantastic DLC for a reasonable price...and NOT by making it so boring that you have to pay to ease the pain.

Tavore1138

Bouvin wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

i post these calculations to show how ridiculous the current state is, its called feedback also they were not based on what zenimax said but on times that were posted here by players.

Unfortunately, the current rate of CP gain is what will make it into the live.

They have already done the math and figured out how much they will make in the crown shop off CP/Enlightment boosters.

I'm just wondering how much that 'All remaining CP booster" will cost? After all they already said anything that saves time will be considered - selling CP will save time... 100CP for $10 do you think?

Joejudas

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

i post these calculations to show how ridiculous the current state is, its called feedback also they were not based on what zenimax said but on times that were posted here by players.

Unfortunately, the current rate of CP gain is what will make it into the live.

They have already done the math and figured out how much they will make in the crown shop off CP/Enlightment boosters.

I'm just wondering how much that 'All remaining CP booster" will cost? After all they already said anything that saves time will be considered - selling CP will save time... 100CP for $10 do you think?

That will be the death of this game if it happens

Hookgrin

Joejudas wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

i post these calculations to show how ridiculous the current state is, its called feedback also they were not based on what zenimax said but on times that were posted here by players.

Unfortunately, the current rate of CP gain is what will make it into the live.

They have already done the math and figured out how much they will make in the crown shop off CP/Enlightment boosters.

I'm just wondering how much that 'All remaining CP booster" will cost? After all they already said anything that saves time will be considered - selling CP will save time... 100CP for $10 do you think?

That will be the death of this game if it happens

And that leads to this:

"Ok all you level 40 noobs, my grandma just came down to her basement where I live and gave me $300 to buy all the remaining CPs, come PvP with me now you muth***uckers, I am the greatest!!!"

Seriously though, lots of good discussion, on all side of the fence, in this thread, but one thing not mentioned enough is the effect of the diminishing returns.

At some point, regardless of how fast, or slow, you get there, we are going to reach a point in time where we can no longer feel any real improvement. Even if we forget about it, and we will, and apply like 10 or 20 points at once, the cumulative effect of those 10 or 20 points still will be unnoticeable.

At some point everyone will just kind of give up on it as being a waste of time. I would not be surprised to see in chat sometime in the future (or even doing this myself) something like," hey, forgot about applying CPs, just applied 100 of them, feel absolutely no improvement! lol!"

Berinima

I agree with you that at some point a bunch of CPs won't make any difference. But until then, many people will just have quit the game (at least I *think* so) and new people will have a hard time to catch up to that point where a bunch of CP don't matter.

Also it's a psychological problem:

- First, ZOS takes away LOTS of progression that has already BEEN MADE.
- Then they say "Hey, we reserved them for you in this amazing new system! You can get them back by playing the game you love!"
- We are then wondering, "Um, well, how would we do that? There is no content left!"
- ZOS goes like, "You can grind them or do daylies, that's efficient!"
- And then the community is more like, "F*** you!"

Bad game design.