SWTOR all over again?

Harleyquincey

I challenge people to name three pay-to-win items from SW:TOR's cash shop since it seems to have gotten a highly undeserved ill repute among some here.

I recall a single item that ever had an (extremely minor) "advantage" and that was a certain lightsaber with a slightly more powerful crystal in it. And I've been with SW:TOR since launch until ESO's launch. I'd still be playing it if not for ESO and especially ESO's guild system (plus its lack of the nefarious BitRaider client, seriously if ESO would ever get that, I'd be long gone when the message has dried its ink :P )

born2beagator

Raaecl wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

Whatever floats your boat. Why are you still here then?

People are here because they like this game. ZOS just decided to ruin it just to get more money.

If you say so. I'll keep my sub thank you very much. This makes no never mind to me.

Plus I think the knee jerk reactions will be proven wrong in the long haul. It is possible to do this model without ruining a game you know

Maybe, but personally, I've never seen it happen.

I think the "this game is ruined" is also completely a matter of opinion. SWTOR by all accounts is doing well. Otherwise it wouldn't keep getting new planets. Its gotten 3 since going F2P

born2beagator

Harleyquincey wrote: »

I challenge people to name three pay-to-win items from SW:TOR's cash shop since it seems to have gotten a highly undeserved ill repute among some here.

I recall a single item that ever had an (extremely minor) "advantage" and that was a certain lightsaber with a slightly more powerful crystal in it. And I've been with SW:TOR since launch until ESO's launch. I'd still be playing it if not for ESO and especially ESO's guild system (plus its lack of the nefarious BitRaider client, seriously if ESO would ever get that, I'd be long gone when the message has dried its ink :P )

the worst part of SWTOR F2P was halved XP

Khivas_Carrick

It's happened before, just not in the west because people have a hard time reading the differences between Buy To Play, Free To Play, and Pay To Win =P

Jokes aside, People, for *** sake lol stop XD Stop comparing this to every failure beforehand because most of them weren't really failures for what they set out to do. DCU is the only legit failure there since it really did fully become Pay To Win. SWTOR was meant to be a hook, a Jedi mind trick (lol) to make you sub, which changed a whopping not-a-god-damn-thing about the game other than it all suddenly looked better thanks to you suddenly being able to wear whatever the *** you wanted to, but it got people to sub to get them to do stuff, aka nothing changed.

This is going a similar route but with less pay to win and more weird cosmetic *** to wear because people love looking like tiny kittens and chibi and *** like that, while also riding battle-guar into battle wearing a wedding dress.

Yea, weirded me out too.

Anyway, Buy To Play is not the end of the world, and if anything if you keep it subbed I can almost promise you jack *** will change other than more people will be around and getting roflstomped.

Mercurio

a cash shop is a cash shop is a cash shop. They can and do change on a moment's notice. History repeats itself.

Jade1986

born2beagator wrote: »

laced wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

SWTOR just got a huge update. They are doing fine over there. I'd still sub there if I could use a controller. I just can't take the mouse and keyboard controls of MMOs. They were killing my hands

Pretty sure you are not using the term "huge" correctly.

Did it not just get two entirely new planets?

Skill trees were changed, new abilities, new planets, a LOT was changed, so yes, you used it correctly.

That's what I thought. I miss that game. I'd still play it if a controller was viable

Tbh I am bouncing between this game and SWTOR atm =D. I know, the jump from console to pc was harsh for me, when I first started swtor, I was just constantly walking into walls. An mmo mouse does wonders though for control.

Jade1986

Raaecl wrote: »

Mercurio wrote: »

I left SWTOR the day they announced F2P, and I unsubbed from ESO today. perfect parallels.

Yup I left SWTOR soon after the announcement. I tried to get back into the game but all the P2W stuff put me off. Hopefully ZOS dont screw this up.

There is literally one thing that is P2W on SWTOR, the fully upgraded ships in starfighter, nothing else is p2w, at all.....

born2beagator

laced wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

laced wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

SWTOR just got a huge update. They are doing fine over there. I'd still sub there if I could use a controller. I just can't take the mouse and keyboard controls of MMOs. They were killing my hands

Pretty sure you are not using the term "huge" correctly.

Did it not just get two entirely new planets?

Skill trees were changed, new abilities, new planets, a LOT was changed, so yes, you used it correctly.

That's what I thought. I miss that game. I'd still play it if a controller was viable

Tbh I am bouncing between this game and SWTOR atm =D. I know, the jump from console to pc was harsh for me, when I first started swtor, I was just constantly walking into walls. An mmo mouse does wonders though for control.

Oh I could handle it fine. I have 4 level 55s there. The issue was that having to use the keyboard and the mouse at the same time was giving me RSI

tylerdavidsonb14_ESO

Am I the only one that PREFERS subscription based games? This basically signals the death of ESO right? Now expansions and updates will be few and far between....right? They won't be able to pay all their developers because there isn't the income of subscriptions to pay them with, which leads to longer periods of time in-between updates and/or expansions.

Am I right or am I wrong? It just seems to me that everytime a game goes F2P, then it starts to suck. But for the love of Jebus....if I am wrong please tell me I am wrong and then tell me WHY I am wrong. Because I hope I am wrong....I like this game.

technohic

I can remember when SWTOR announced it was going F2P. Pretty much had the same doom sayers I see here. Now seeing the comparison of ESO to SWTOR going F2P and claiming how awful it was for SWTOR, I know that people are full of ***.

Face it people. SWTOR sucks to this day for the same reasons it sucked before F2P which lead to F2P. It really has nothing to do with being F2P there but people will claim it and ignore the fact that the game had major issues to lead it to that point to begin with.

grimjim398

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

With Tamriel Unlimited, we are not changing the current rate at which your characters progress. That includes experience and AP gain rate, gold gain speed, what your character can equip, etc. The overall experience will be no different than the game you're playing now.

Problem is, why should anybody believe you? What you really mean is, at the beginning none of this will change, until suddenly you go quiet on the issue, and then suddenly all this will change, and you will be sent out to mouthpiece some other platitude.

Lionxoft

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

With Tamriel Unlimited, we are not changing the current rate at which your characters progress. That includes experience and AP gain rate, gold gain speed, what your character can equip, etc. The overall experience will be no different than the game you're playing now.

Except you can pay them to enhance that rate. ZOS Wordsmithing at it's finest, again.

black-gryphonb14_ESO

Raaecl wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

The SWTOR model penalizes you if you don't sub... pretty severely. This doesn't, it just gives subs a buff. If you think xp boosts and a bit more gold is P2W in this game, not sure what to tell you.

Well its a beginning. From what ive read in the forums it seems that soul gems and potions will also be sold there.

This I don't see as P2W - but it is an easy way to grab more real money from players that are otherwise too lazy to make their own potions or buy/make their own soul gems.
-
I'll be concerned when one can buy special armor, weapons, or other items from the shop that give a crown buyer a benefit over those that are not, or are something that can't be crafted by the player.

Alphashado

Gyudan wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

With Tamriel Unlimited, we are not changing the current rate at which your characters progress. That includes experience and AP gain rate, gold gain speed, what your character can equip, etc. The overall experience will be no different than the game you're playing now.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom: What stunned me the most upon hearing the P2P news was the disdain that transpired through the announcement. Despite numerous polls on the subject and most of your current suscribers feeling satisfied with the payment model, you still went along with the change.

From the press release:

“Our fans are our biggest inspiration, and we’ve listened to their feedback on the entertainment experience they want,” said Matt Firor, Game Director of The Elder Scrolls Online. “We know that Elder Scrolls fans want choice when it comes to how they play and how they pay, and that is what they will get.

Elder Scrolls fans are right here and they didn't ask for this change.

This. So very much this. I guess Matt has a different idea about the definition of "fan", and clearly that does not include 99% of the people currently playing the game.

In fact, let me fix that quote for him. It will only require a small adjustment.

“Our fans potential customers are our biggest inspiration, and we’ve listened to their feedback on the entertainment experience they want,” said Matt Firor, Game Director of The Elder Scrolls Online. “We know that Elder Scrolls fans potential customers want choice when it comes to how they play and how they pay, and that is what they will get.

I would much rather hear the cold hard truth than some trumped up line of crap that everyone can see through.

NadiusMaximus

Emencie wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

The SWTOR model penalizes you if you don't sub... pretty severely. This doesn't, it just gives subs a buff. If you think xp boosts and a bit more gold is P2W in this game, not sure what to tell you.

Well its a beginning. From what ive read in the forums it seems that soul gems and potions will also be sold there.

Nowhere did ZOS mention health pots or soul gems. They are so freakin' easy to come by it's not even funny.

Yah they did. And yes they are.

Now who do I believe? ESOs devs should be more transparent with us.

They did

And if anyone believes they are going to be selling the normal potions we throw away in the cash shop they are deceiving themselves.

The cash shop potions will either be tri-potions, or a new potion that has some advantage over normal potions. Or else no one would buy them.

This kinda screws anyone that leveled alchemy, and sells pots.

Thanks guys, thanks.

Razzak

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

The SWTOR model penalizes you if you don't sub... pretty severely. This doesn't, it just gives subs a buff. If you think xp boosts and a bit more gold is P2W in this game, not sure what to tell you.

Well its a beginning. From what ive read in the forums it seems that soul gems and potions will also be sold there.

Nowhere did ZOS mention health pots or soul gems. They are so freakin' easy to come by it's not even funny.

Yah they did. And yes they are.

Now who do I believe? ESOs devs should be more transparent with us.

They did

And if anyone believes they are going to be selling the normal potions we throw away in the cash shop they are deceiving themselves.

The cash shop potions will either be tri-potions, or a new potion that has some advantage over normal potions. Or else no one would buy them.

This kinda screws anyone that leveled alchemy, and sells pots.

Thanks guys, thanks.

I think they will sell items that will not be as good as crafted, but they will simply make crafting those items so hard or time/materials consuming, many will simply buy cash shop ones instead. Thus, they keep their "promise", but force players into buying them for real money since it's so much easier than crafting them or buying them from crafters who will not be able to keep up with demand as they do now.
Likewise with soul gems. Right now, they are not so hard to accumulate. But I imagine the drop rate will be severely lowered, thus making accumulation of them much, much harder, and many will be forced into buying them in cash shop.

Cash shop doesn't just bring questionable items, it also brings changes in general ways of acquiring similar items outside of cash shop. And those changes are always in favor of cash shop.

ArconSeptim

Raaecl wrote: »

SWTOR was a great game when it had subscriptions, then they went F2P and all the in game purchases were frustrating. It just puts people off playing the game. Ditch the cash shop and make the game buy to play but with expansion packs, so all players get an equal (and also the best) experience. Im sure most of us wont mind paying for the major updates and zones. There is no need for other in game purchases. The 10% buffs are just P2W.

You are narrowminded guy, look it in brighter more ways than it is now, I'm sure ESO will be the best MMO game among other ones in next years!

NadiusMaximus

This game going B2p doesn't make sense. ..
(ZOS, read this and then decide)
[ I, got this in the bag guys don't worry]


ladies and gentlemen of ZOS, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, you all know of Chewbacca.

Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor.
Now think about it; that does not make sense!
 Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! 
But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! 
Look at me. I'm playing an ElderScrolls game, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that office deliberatin' and conjugatin'the thought of going B2P, does it make sense? No!
Ladies and gentlemen of ZOS , it does not make sense!If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must stay as a subscription only based game!

Raaecl

born2beagator wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

SWTOR was a great game when it had subscriptions, then they went F2P and all the in game purchases were frustrating. It just puts people off playing the game. Make the game buy to play but with expansion packs, so all players get an equal (and also the best) experience. Im sure most of us wont mind paying for the major updates and zones. There is no need for other in game purchases. The 10% buffs are just P2W.

^ The reason I Left SWTOR was because of all the stupid micro transactions for looks and bs. The devs focused more on the optional pay extra for xyz garbage and less on the regular game I paid my sub for. Also I got a lousy few hundred tokens per month and everything that was a micro transaction cost in the thousands... This is Extremely upsetting to hear.

Seems to me that SWTOR has gotten plenty of good content other than just cosmetics since going F2P. You guys can run off if you want, I'll be here when you get back

I'd probably keep my subscription

tylerdavidsonb14_ESO wrote: »

Am I the only one that PREFERS subscription based games? This basically signals the death of ESO right? Now expansions and updates will be few and far between....right? They won't be able to pay all their developers because there isn't the income of subscriptions to pay them with, which leads to longer periods of time in-between updates and/or expansions.

Am I right or am I wrong? It just seems to me that everytime a game goes F2P, then it starts to suck. But for the love of Jebus....if I am wrong please tell me I am wrong and then tell me WHY I am wrong. Because I hope I am wrong....I like this game.

Most people prefer subscription MMOs. Yeah I hated it when I was 10 and couldn't afford to pay £10 each month, but for the vast majority it shouldn't be a problem. Like you said, the pros outweigh the cons of subscription MMOs.

Have ZOS already forgotten the reasons they gave us when they announced ESO as a subscription MMO?

Lord_Kreegan

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

The SWTOR model penalizes you if you don't sub... pretty severely. This doesn't, it just gives subs a buff. If you think xp boosts and a bit more gold is P2W in this game, not sure what to tell you.

Well its a beginning. From what I've read in the forums it seems that soul gems and potions will also be sold there.

LMAO nothing you can currently get in game will be paygated. Everything they place in the Store will more then likely be exclusive to the Store.

How do you know? FACT: You don't.

Anyone saying otherwise outside of a Dev. Are speculating and fearmongering. They have no evidence of this.

FACT: And there is no evidence of what you are saying.

Don't be a white knight. You inevitably look like an ass.

TheShadowScout

SWTOR had basically only one reral "pay to win" item in their store, the cartel color crystals, which gave people an endgame-power crystal to use from level 10 on. Advantage while they level, equals out once they get to endgame. The rest of the gear they sold was either empty to be filled with any mods, or had purple mods slotted, I think the highest were level 40, which meant nothing useable in endgame.

The rest of the cartel store was utility (character changes, name changes, species unlocks, cartel-instead-of-in-game-credit convinience unlocks, etc), FtP unlocks (pay the unlock to use the purple gear, pay unlock to do more then 3 PvP arenas per week, pay unlock to... you get the idea), and vanity (empty gear to fill with your own mods, dye mods, appereance unlocks).

The problem was... "cat in the bag" factor. You could buy some stuff right off the store, but most was in themed packs where you'd never know what you'd get. Want to assemble a armor set? Good luck, or do a lot of trading at the GTN. Want that rare dye? Be prepared to pay through your nose for it. And they added more and more stuff (duh) and naturally the good sets were generally rare... it soon became more and more expensive to keep getting your character the way you wanted them.

The biggest annoyances I had with it going FtP were for one that the neat dyes were super rare and as expensive as back in the roman empire, and for another, all those credit sellers popped up, got banned, and had another toon spamming within a few hours. Well, ESO is better on the former already, so lets hope they'll slap down the latter in ways that keep the game spam-free...

staticstorm

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

GW2 hasnt had any major updates, just seasonal events...

Actually the content updates were in about the same league as those in ESO so far ( including the lack thereof for RvR/GvG/AvA ). And completely free.

So are you trolling or trying to deceive people ?

GW2 does add content... they just remove it lol

Rammi

The relevance to SWTOR is largely symbolic.

As other have mentioned the models are very different and ESO at present is the better model.

Where it is the same is a clear change in direction for the game and development. The priorities have changed and with it how content will be delivered to ESO gamer will be slower and not as exciting.

I look at SWTOR that I left over 15 months ago and apart from a housing system and a few new raids what content has actually been delivered. They only just released a new expansion with new zones and class rebalance just before Xmas! 15 months and thats it!

What they would point to is 100s of items on the store that have also been made available as content that took away from actual changes to the game.

Athas24

born2beagator wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

SWTOR was a great game when it had subscriptions, then they went F2P and all the in game purchases were frustrating. It just puts people off playing the game. Make the game buy to play but with expansion packs, so all players get an equal (and also the best) experience. Im sure most of us wont mind paying for the major updates and zones. There is no need for other in game purchases. The 10% buffs are just P2W.

^ The reason I Left SWTOR was because of all the stupid micro transactions for looks and bs. The devs focused more on the optional pay extra for xyz garbage and less on the regular game I paid my sub for. Also I got a lousy few hundred tokens per month and everything that was a micro transaction cost in the thousands... This is Extremely upsetting to hear.

Seems to me that SWTOR has gotten plenty of good content other than just cosmetics since going F2P. You guys can run off if you want, I'll be here when you get back

Sure content has come out and there's some decent things but the majority of the content that comes out once a month? That's ALL cartel pack related. They even embedded it into the factions that you gain approval with. Basically if you pay a ton in micro transactions you can get points to increase your approval with the hutt cartel allowing you to buy more gear with in game currency. It's a money sink for anyone looking to get that gear.

technohic

Rammi wrote: »

The relevance to SWTOR is largely symbolic.

As other have mentioned the models are very different and ESO at present is the better model.

Where it is the same is a clear change in direction for the game and development. The priorities have changed and with it how content will be delivered to ESO gamer will be slower and not as exciting.

I look at SWTOR that I left over 15 months ago and apart from a housing system and a few new raids what content has actually been delivered. They only just released a new expansion with new zones and class rebalance just before Xmas! 15 months and thats it!

What they would point to is 100s of items on the store that have also been made available as content that took away from actual changes to the game.

They doubled revenue reportedly after going F2P yet also seemed to have cut staff. They definitely churn out more store content than game content but a lot of that I feel has to do with management and I also hope that content is the big seller for B2P non-sub players on this game so they focus on that.

Time will tell there, but the one thing that has already been told is they felt the game was not going to succeed staying P2P.

Rammi

technohic wrote: »

Rammi wrote: »

The relevance to SWTOR is largely symbolic.

As other have mentioned the models are very different and ESO at present is the better model.

Where it is the same is a clear change in direction for the game and development. The priorities have changed and with it how content will be delivered to ESO gamer will be slower and not as exciting.

I look at SWTOR that I left over 15 months ago and apart from a housing system and a few new raids what content has actually been delivered. They only just released a new expansion with new zones and class rebalance just before Xmas! 15 months and thats it!

What they would point to is 100s of items on the store that have also been made available as content that took away from actual changes to the game.

They doubled revenue reportedly after going F2P yet also seemed to have cut staff. They definitely churn out more store content than game content but a lot of that I feel has to do with management and I also hope that content is the big seller for B2P non-sub players on this game so they focus on that.

Time will tell there, but the one thing that has already been told is they felt the game was not going to succeed staying P2P.

Fair points, If I was an EA Shareholder I would be delighted.

As a gamer I have not played the game since about 3 months after the change.

The reality is that this points the blame right at the consumer as they clearly like the model and spend the money!!

At 30 I'm clearly now an old man who simply does not get it! I have money to burn but I'm not wasting it on crap!

technohic

Rammi wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Rammi wrote: »

The relevance to SWTOR is largely symbolic.

As other have mentioned the models are very different and ESO at present is the better model.

Where it is the same is a clear change in direction for the game and development. The priorities have changed and with it how content will be delivered to ESO gamer will be slower and not as exciting.

I look at SWTOR that I left over 15 months ago and apart from a housing system and a few new raids what content has actually been delivered. They only just released a new expansion with new zones and class rebalance just before Xmas! 15 months and thats it!

What they would point to is 100s of items on the store that have also been made available as content that took away from actual changes to the game.

They doubled revenue reportedly after going F2P yet also seemed to have cut staff. They definitely churn out more store content than game content but a lot of that I feel has to do with management and I also hope that content is the big seller for B2P non-sub players on this game so they focus on that.

Time will tell there, but the one thing that has already been told is they felt the game was not going to succeed staying P2P.

Fair points, If I was an EA Shareholder I would be delighted.

As a gamer I have not played the game since about 3 months after the change.

The reality is that this points the blame right at the consumer as they clearly like the model and spend the money!!

At 30 I'm clearly now an old man who simply does not get it! I have money to burn but I'm not wasting it on crap!

You and me both, but I have been back there often and the cartel shop hasn't bothered me. I go and do WZs non stop as that is all that I am interested in, and then get bored again and leave. They have added some WZs since going F2P also, but they are the worst ones they have done from a creative standpoint IMO. Then there is the whole arena focus.

So when it comes down to it, the cartel shop is not why I'm not there. I honestly just don't know how anyone can play the canned PvP over and over like that for the long term.

Tankqull

Harleyquincey wrote: »

I challenge people to name three pay-to-win items from SW:TOR's cash shop since it seems to have gotten a highly undeserved ill repute among some here.

I recall a single item that ever had an (extremely minor) "advantage" and that was a certain lightsaber with a slightly more powerful crystal in it. And I've been with SW:TOR since launch until ESO's launch. I'd still be playing it if not for ESO and especially ESO's guild system (plus its lack of the nefarious BitRaider client, seriously if ESO would ever get that, I'd be long gone when the message has dried its ink :P )

additional quickbars with only 10 qb slots its realy hard to play when 25+ skills are needed to play decent on your class
treek
ability to wear endgame equipment (anything above blue)

Korah_Eaglecry

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Raaecl wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

The SWTOR model penalizes you if you don't sub... pretty severely. This doesn't, it just gives subs a buff. If you think xp boosts and a bit more gold is P2W in this game, not sure what to tell you.

Well its a beginning. From what I've read in the forums it seems that soul gems and potions will also be sold there.

LMAO nothing you can currently get in game will be paygated. Everything they place in the Store will more then likely be exclusive to the Store.

How do you know? FACT: You don't.

Anyone saying otherwise outside of a Dev. Are speculating and fearmongering. They have no evidence of this.

FACT: And there is no evidence of what you are saying.

Don't be a white knight. You inevitably look like an ass.

FACT: I actually went and sought out the information Im repeating.

FACT: Youre knee jerk reacting and hoping other small minded idiots join you in your pitchfork rally.

technohic

Tankqull wrote: »

Harleyquincey wrote: »

I challenge people to name three pay-to-win items from SW:TOR's cash shop since it seems to have gotten a highly undeserved ill repute among some here.

I recall a single item that ever had an (extremely minor) "advantage" and that was a certain lightsaber with a slightly more powerful crystal in it. And I've been with SW:TOR since launch until ESO's launch. I'd still be playing it if not for ESO and especially ESO's guild system (plus its lack of the nefarious BitRaider client, seriously if ESO would ever get that, I'd be long gone when the message has dried its ink :P )

additional quickbars
treek
ability to wear endgame equipment

2 of those are more of removing the limits of free to play than pay to play. Subscribers would have no need for them.

Treek and all companions are kind of useless in the grand scheme of things that are end game, where you cannot even use a companion.