Please delay CP conversions till after VR is removed.

seanvwolf

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

VR1 5cp vs. VR14 70cp THE GAP IS HUGE
VR1 30cp vs. VR14 30cp THE GAP IS HUGE
VR1 5cp vs. VR1 70cp The gap is small

See what this is there? A prime example that the CP means nothing in this argument... It's all about the gear, which is precisely what I have been saying.

And don't make assumptions about how most veterans leveled. I solo PvE more than 90% of the content, which is what most of those, veteran or not, do. I would hazard to suspect that those early vets who played most out the gate were forced to solo almost all the vet content, because there were so few people in those vet zones to group with. Do not assume, please.

Valencer

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

It is in no way a double reward because everyone would've gotten that exp anyways, regardless of the new system. All veterans are getting compensated based on their level, but the exp is gained through playing the game, not a bonus. The only bonus is one-time bonus of cp based on your level. Everything else that a V14 and a V1 will earn after that they would have gotten anyways, why is this hard to understand? And those 70 points are not going to produce as much of a gap as people think. If you go back listen to the guild summit on the CS, they talk about how these passives are mainly for tweaking/customizing playstyle. I mean, one of the passives is War Mount, take more damage before being dismounted. How is that a huge advantage?

I ask, if this happened the way you want, would you also want cp's to not be gained until 1.7 as well? As I told Fauguan, the same people he doesn't want to have the 70 cp's will be balls deeps in cp by 1.7 regardless and those 70 cp will just be icing on their cake.

If VR's aren't removed then they might as well just scrap the whole CS and go back to the way it was. Doesn't that sound ric**kulous? Wouldn't you rather see a new system come in and do away with the old?

Well, I appreciate we can talk about this in a civil way .

My concern is that the relative power difference between players at various points in the veteran rank system will increase, due to the co-existence of VRs and CPs. The difference we now have between, say, a VR3 and a VR8, will become bigger when update 6 hits, due to the difference in not just rank but also champion points. When VRs are removed, this will become a non-issue, of course.

I personally think the best course of action would be to give everybody with a VR1+ character a flat amount now (at Update 6) so we can test and play around with the champion system. This wouldn't immediatly result in a bigger difference in power between the various veteran ranks. Then, when VRs are removed (presumably Update 7), they could actually convert the VRs to additional CPs (rewarding effort put into the veteran system), as outlined by ZOS.

At this point, we're not entirely sure how significant 70 points are going to be in the champion system. I like to think it won't be a game changer, but it's difficult to anticipate.

I might have phrased the last sentence in a vague way. I'm all for removing the veteran ranks, and have never in my posting history claimed otherwise. I meant that increasing the power gap between VR1s and VR14s isn't needed, as they could just delay the VR-to-CP conversion until the update in which VRs actually get removed.

Faugaun

murmur wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

So if I am at vr1 and I quest with you who just turned VR14 and got +70 CPS and we both level together doing identical things....then when I reach VR14 we will be identical?

Possibly, because I have already done all those quests, so I can't get any XP from it towards to my next CP.

Those 70 CP ain't there to compensate the removal of VR levels I have, it's to compensate the quest XP that I can't get anymore to my CP pool like those can who are VR1 and haven't done Cadwell's silver/gold.

So it is compensation then? Why not delay the compensat

murmur wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

So if I am at vr1 and I quest with you who just turned VR14 and got +70 CPS and we both level together doing identical things....then when I reach VR14 we will be identical?

Possibly, because I have already done all those quests, so I can't get any XP from it towards to my next CP.

Those 70 CP ain't there to compensate the removal of VR levels I have, it's to compensate the quest XP that I can't get anymore to my CP pool like those can who are VR1 and haven't done Cadwell's silver/gold.

So is it compensation or not, different people are saying different things... please everyone on the same page, I cannot possibly support/oppose every possible alternate reality the 20 of you can imagine....

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

Again if you lost nothing then why not the 30 cp plan? What makes you special?

First, I never said that I was one of the ones up in arms about the 30 cp.
Second, I'm not special, other than the fact that I got a toon to V14.
Third, as I have explained in a previous post, the reason they went away from the 30 cp was because people felt they deserved more cp for their effort (if they had a V14) than some one who didn't, period, point blank, end of story. Also, as I said before, it compensation based on accomplishment, not in any way compensation for loss.

Now, I'm starting to think that you are being willfully dense! This is not a hard concept to understand, so I must assume you are mentally handicapped, home schooled in Utah, constantly hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, on some sort of drugs, trolling or listening to voices in your head that are telling you to not understand things.

So now it's compensation, this is opposite what you said earlier. Or are you still maintaining the "it's a bonus" option ? If it is a loyalty perk why not give everyone 1 CP for every week their subscription has been active? Then continue to give one CP for each week of active subscription so everyone gets 1 CP per week of active subscription?

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

murmur wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

So if I am at vr1 and I quest with you who just turned VR14 and got +70 CPS and we both level together doing identical things....then when I reach VR14 we will be identical?

Possibly, because I have already done all those quests, so I can't get any XP from it towards to my next CP.

Those 70 CP ain't there to compensate the removal of VR levels I have, it's to compensate the quest XP that I can't get anymore to my CP pool like those can who are VR1 and haven't done Cadwell's silver/gold.

The bolded part is the vital one, OP. If you want to look at this as compensation, that's what the Champion Points given with 1.6 compensate for. As a VR1, you have access to two alliances worth of quests that I've already completed.

and I am saying receive this after VR is removed for fairness. Zos never specified that it was for quest exp or for vr gear loss or what...I think the goal is to create a fair and even system.

Antiquity wrote: »

OP - while I can see what you're saying, its not worth kicking the hornet's nest for. At least, I don't see it as enough of a disadvantage to.

I think a situational example might explain your point better. Let's say 1.6 went live today.
I'm roughly 220,000 points in to V1. I have a lot of trouble finding dungeon groups, as most people doing pledges are V8-V14. No one I've found wants to take a V1 tank along with them. Understandable - you guys want to get in and out, not give your healer an aneurysm by overtaxing him.

With 1.6 live, those V8-V14s are going to have even less interest in taking me along, seeing as how along with their extra ability points and spiffy gear they'll also have 69 CP on me, making their run even easier if they take someone their level as apposed to me - making it even harder for me to find a group to get better gear and get on their level etc.

I think this situation is what devs were trying to avoid with the 30 cp for all plan. I really prefer to earn my CP anyway, but it would be nice if I could earn some of it doing dungeons as apposed to solo questing. But unlike some who cry about not wanting to earn xps by (insert one: pvp/dailies/solo/grouping/etc.) I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. Xps are xps, and I'll solo quest to oblivion and back to be able to run with the big boys. Its more fun than spending my time QQ'ing on the boards, at least

If I've misundertood your OP at all, sorry.

That's part of what I was saying previously, but not all.

Yusuf wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Sounds a lot like you want a "no child left behind" policy for ESO. A policy that didn't work out too well either.

Would you also like those of us who have millions of gold to stop earning gold so others can catch up to the amount we have?

Riiight. That's exactly what he said

Would it kill you to wait for the rank-to-CP conversion until veteran ranks are actually removed? The OP makes a very valid point. If this conversion goes live in Update 6, VR14s will basically get even more bonuses compared to a VR1, for no real reason.

It's not "for no reason" they put a lot more time and effort into the game.

Just like any other mmo player at end game when the company releases new content...

seanvwolf wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

So if I am at vr1 and I quest with you who just turned VR14 and got +70 CPS and we both level together doing identical things....then when I reach VR14 we will be identical? Oh wait you got freebie...just because so you have 140 CP and I only have 70CP...

I was going to not discuss, but you've made a liar of me and replied with another epic fail in logic.

If we both level side by side, you will have 70cp when you finally reach full vr14... and you'll have the gear to match, unless of course you are still wearing v1 gears which I highly doubt at that point. Sure, I'll have 140cp but that's because all the while, while capped at vr14, I put in (atleast!) twice as much time with that veteran play. Just like you'll have when also get to the amount of experience I've gained (exceeding 70cps). The more you post, the more it shows you are just hurt because you will always be behind, even though we've already explained to you that the CP gains have diminished returns. The difference between 70 and 140 cps is even less than 0 and 70. I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand that. Next, say I get 140 cps but you put in 300% more time as I do, in the time it takes me to get 70 more cp and you end up with 210 cp. These aren't "freebies", this is compensation for play time that's been spent. Don't be immature with this, please. It only makes your argument that much weaker.

you ignored the next part of that quote which was italicized please reread.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Sounds a lot like you want a "no child left behind" policy for ESO. A policy that didn't work out too well either.

Would you also like those of us who have millions of gold to stop earning gold so others can catch up to the amount we have?

Riiight. That's exactly what he said

Would it kill you to wait for the rank-to-CP conversion until veteran ranks are actually removed? The OP makes a very valid point. If this conversion goes live in Update 6, VR14s will basically get even more bonuses compared to a VR1, for no real reason.

Not at all true, necessarily. When you look at available content for Champion Point earnings, a V1 would have WAY more potential than a V14.

I have a V14. I don't run Trials, I don't often run dungeons, I PvP. If I want to earn Champion points with my V14, I have to either start grinding kills, start running trials or run dungeons more often, as CP will likely follow the trend set by XP gain in PvP (slim to none).

As a V1 you still have ALL OF CADWELL'S SILVER AND GOLD content to do, during which you will not only be gaining Vet levels, if you do it before they're removed, but you'll also be gaining champion points.

Hell you might even gain more than 70 champion points before you're V14, who knows. They haven't released the amount of time or XP required per Champion Point aside from the initial conversion.

Faugaun wrote: »

Please keep in mind this is from the view of a VR1 who has subbed since the beginning.



Cheers,
A concerned VR1

P.S. Zos I know you guys listen it is evident in all your actions. Please consider this and make the best decision for the game.

This isn't the best decision for the game, not in the slightest. They tried the communist, "balanced", little league "everybody gets a trophy just for showing up" approach. The majority railed against it and won.

And speaking as someone who has also been here since pre-launch, if you're still VR1 - that's not ZOS' problem. Nor is it a bad thing. Maybe you have alt-itis, maybe you work a lot, maybe you spend time with your family. That's how you play and there's nothing wrong with it.

But you're asking for something for nothing. And you're asking them to shoot themselves in the foot by postponing an integral stage in the Champion System roll out.


You can't just jump straight from Stage 2 to Stage 4 and expect everything to be okay.

1.6 is Stage 3 of the Champion System release, introduction of Champion Points. It'll be tested, go live, have all the monumental glaring problems fixed and THEN only THEN will the ball start rolling on Stage 4.

I'm not complaining about my own position, nor am i complaining that CPs are implemented in 1.6 (the ones that you earned during game play). I am complaining that reward of CPs earned under VR system (prior to CS launch) should not be given until VR system is completely removed. Also I am not asking for anything for nothing, under my proposal I get exactly the same CP compensation/bonus under either model. I am asking for different timing of the retroactive CP award.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

So much entitlement by both sides... The VR14s cant wait a few months and the VR1s dont want to level to save quests...

Zenimax should have just been quiet on what they are going to do until they tested the thing for a while. I have a feeling though:

VR1 5cp vs. VR14 70cp THE GAP IS HUGE
VR1 30cp vs. VR14 30cp THE GAP IS HUGE
VR1 5cp vs. VR1 70cp The gap is small
VR1 30cp vs. VR1 30cp there is a new gap because the first one has quests to get more CP from this point on.

While there are VR ranks the system is broken... I stopped leveling my alts at VR just because its boring. One of my accounts has a VR14 while my other two have VR8s (as far as gold and silver get you)

I guess the difference between and a majority of you here is that I solo PvE so it goes not matter if I have 3600 CP or 10 (at the moment) and when I PVP its zergs anyway and it does not matter how great I am...

When EQ added *** I had something like 12,000 in the first year and I cant imagine someone new trying to catch up, but then again what is the point the elite entitled players dont want "new / casual players" in their uber high end content game anyway.

I learned after hardcore playing EQ and WOW that I will never be the best at a game again, because family, work and hobbies that are outside are more important to playing 60+ hour raids with no sleep in the PoG to get an item that makes me 0.000001% better then another player, but I dont want to take that lesson away from others who are in different parts of their life

In short Zenimax should wait until a 2 or 3 month test of CP... its game changing enough to where they call it ESO 2.0...

This, This, This!!! Exactly agree 110% with everything you have said! Someone give Amsel_McKay 5 extra CP when this rolls out just for this post!

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Sounds a lot like you want a "no child left behind" policy for ESO. A policy that didn't work out too well either.

Would you also like those of us who have millions of gold to stop earning gold so others can catch up to the amount we have?

Riiight. That's exactly what he said

Would it kill you to wait for the rank-to-CP conversion until veteran ranks are actually removed? The OP makes a very valid point. If this conversion goes live in Update 6, VR14s will basically get even more bonuses compared to a VR1, for no real reason.

Also, there is a reason. They put in the work - be it through grinding or through questing. It's time and effort. Triple that of a V1. Unless they used broken Craglorn things to max level. Then it's probably only double that of a V1.

But for those of us V14's who have gone through all of Cadwell's Silver and Gold, gone the completionist route and got all the achievables per zone. We put in more than enough time and effort to warrant the reward.

No one is saying you don't deserve the reward, just saying wait until VR is removed to receive that reward for fairness.

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

So... I am confuzzled. Is OP not going to play his V1 until after 1.6 is out?

Its not even on the PTS yet, so why wont you get any points? You cant earn at least 200k xp before its out?

Funny thing this. lol

You're missing the point this isn't about how many CP I get, you get or anyone else gets...it is about when we get the CP that we get.

And I'll say it again for you, The reason to get the points before is for many reasons. To see how the system works on a live server, to test each tweak, to see how the respec system is, to have a nice immediate stash of points to play with. You don't understand this because you are a Rper (I think), and I'm sorry but this is system is more than stories and playacting. It is a system for character development in a practical sense. I don't know what occupies your time in this game, but if it were progression/practical character development, then you would see the need to have a nice chunk of points to play with right from the start.

you know, VR14 complain a lot...they complain about no new end content, they complain about not enough CP, they complain that they want the CP yesterday and cannot wait a few months till a better time, the rush through content. What will you do once you have convinced Zos to give you full CP at 1.6 launch? Complain again that there is not enough end game content and progression?

I realize this isn't all VR14 I have just characterized ... in fact it's just a minority...but the game isn't about min/maxing and "getting what's owed me" ...fact is nothing is owed...what Zos should do is provide a fair and fun environment for people to enjoy not cater to whiners like yourself who will just whine about something else later. Just focus on enjoying the game.

ok, I'll catch up more later ... sorry RL has me busy so i am behind on responses...

Faugaun

roechacca wrote: »

The OP is trying to say that a VR14 with Champion Points will be OP . That they shouldn't get any champion points until Veteran Ranks are removed .

He added some crazy math to evaluate this claim ...

Now I'm gonna go back to leveling cause I'm bad at math .

Sorry for the confusing math, and exactly correct

Xjcon wrote: »

I could care less either way this goes. But op you must have missed how this works. You have to threaten to leave the game if they don't change it to what you view is fair.

darn it ... I knew I was doing something wrong

TequilaFire wrote: »

Just want to point out to the OP in the time since this thread was posted I have taken an alt up 3 levels.
Not bragging just trying to point out your time would be better spent playing and leveling!

nah, cannot play at work only forums!

nerevarine1138

I think your mistake here is assuming that VR14s can earn XP faster than VR1s. That's never been the case.

Faugaun

seanvwolf wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

VR1 5cp vs. VR14 70cp THE GAP IS HUGE
VR1 30cp vs. VR14 30cp THE GAP IS HUGE
VR1 5cp vs. VR1 70cp The gap is small

See what this is there? A prime example that the CP means nothing in this argument... It's all about the gear, which is precisely what I have been saying.

And don't make assumptions about how most veterans leveled. I solo PvE more than 90% of the content, which is what most of those, veteran or not, do. I would hazard to suspect that those early vets who played most out the gate were forced to solo almost all the vet content, because there were so few people in those vet zones to group with. Do not assume, please.

and I am saying gear+cp is even greater advantage than gear or cp alone which is why the compensation cp should wait until after VR is removed and the gear is scaled down.

seanvwolf

Faugaun wrote: »

(except you had the non-level 50 gear also...see double benefit) and thus were able to do more damage and get more experience doing the exact same activity because you have bonus stats from gear AND passives from CS ....at the same time....so instead you earned say 90 cp from the same effort (due to double benefit) while I gained only 70 from identical activity (just because you had double bonus effects) and had you been a vr14 or CS +70 only (not both) then perhaps you would only have gained 80 in the same time ....its this added benefit between the 80 and the 90 cp earned that I am complaining about

What I am saying is that you shouldn't get that benefit until VR is removed.

Why does this seem like a case of Elder Troll Online. Cause you will get that "double" benefit you are worried about while you are leveling. You're going to be getting that "double" benefit over v1's when are v2. You'll be getting that "double" benefit over v5's when you are v6. If you get v14 before VR ranks are removed, then you'll get that "double" benefit over everyone else too... just not those who put in the effort or were leveled before you. And if you don't get v14 before VR ranks are removed, then it won't matter anyhow.

/thread (for reals this time)

Xjcon

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I think your mistake here is assuming that VR14s can earn XP faster than VR1s. That's never been the case.

I bet as a VR14 I can gain exp faster then a vr1.

dharbert

OP, just give up. It's not gonna happen.

Faugaun

Xjcon wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I think your mistake here is assuming that VR14s can earn XP faster than VR1s. That's never been the case.

I bet as a VR14 I can gain exp faster then a vr1.

and do you also think that as a VR14 gifted 70 CP you cna get exp faster than a VR14 not gifted CP ?

Faugaun

dharbert wrote: »

OP, just give up. It's not gonna happen.

Sorry almighty representative of Zos with your green title....I didn't notice you had any authority on the matter earlier. Now I am corrected and understand that this will never happen, just like they will never change from the 30cp plan because there wasn't a real issue.

You know it's so funny when people who have no say whatsoever try to force their ideas on other people by making snarky comments attempting to sound like they know more than they do....this is a legitimate concern in my opinion, if you feel different feel free to continue elaborating on your position and I will do the same. If you're not interested then go play the game or read a different thread, it's up to you what you really wanna do.

As for me, your opinion that it will not happen will not deter my mission.

BalerionBlackDread

Faugaun wrote: »

So is it compensation or not, different people are saying different things... please everyone on the same page, I cannot possibly support/oppose every possible alternate reality the 20 of you can imagine....

So now it's compensation, this is opposite what you said earlier. Or are you still maintaining the "it's a bonus" option ? If it is a loyalty perk why not give everyone 1 CP for every week their subscription has been active? Then continue to give one CP for each week of active subscription so everyone gets 1 CP per week of active subscription?

OK, I never defended a position of bonus (i.e. not earned), I may have used the word for sake of brevity earlier, but my position (the sane position) all along has been, that the 70cp is compensation for accomplishment, just however many points you're due (when 1.6 drops) will be compensation for accomplishment. Seriously, I want to know what you hope to accomplish by forestalling the inevitable? If someone hasn't reached V14 by now, it is unlikely that they will by 1.7 (it is ironic though, because they probably could if they played the game instead sitting in a town and role-playing).

Those 70 CP ain't there to compensate the removal of VR levels I have, it's to compensate the quest XP that I can't get anymore to my CP pool like those can who are VR1 and haven't done Cadwell's silver/gold.[/quote]

Yes, that is part of the reason many were up in arms about the previous 30 cp plan, but it is also because of the accomplishment of reaching your respective VR level. (I personally never agreed wholly with this idea, because ZOS said that other things were going to scale with quest xp, but it is a part of the compensation)

and I am saying receive this after VR is removed for fairness. Zos never specified that it was for quest exp or for vr gear loss or what...I think the goal is to create a fair and even system.

How is it fair for someone who has earned V14 (70cp's) to wait for someone who hasn't earned V14 to catchup? You're right they didn't say that 70cp were for specific things like gear loss, quest xp etc, however thayt have said on numerous occasions that cp's are based on experience. x amount of xp = 1 cp, so in that regard, someone with a V14 character inherently has more xp than someone with a V1 character and there should receive their due promptly and not when you think it is appropriate.

Just like any other mmo player at end game when the company releases new content...

So, when an end-game player is inherently ahead (gear, levels, skills exp etc.), when an expansion comes out they are more prepared for and can more easily get into the new content, whereas some one who isn't at level cap and doesn't have the gear,levels, skills etc. is not given an express ticket into that new content, are they? No, they have to catchup, they have to apply themselves, better their characters, learn new things.

seanvwolf wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

So if I am at vr1 and I quest with you who just turned VR14 and got +70 CPS and we both level together doing identical things....then when I reach VR14 we will be identical? Oh wait you got freebie...just because so you have 140 CP and I only have 70CP...

I'm not complaining about my own position, nor am i complaining that CPs are implemented in 1.6 (the ones that you earned during game play). I am complaining that reward of CPs earned under VR system (prior to CS launch) should not be given until VR system is completely removed. Also I am not asking for anything for nothing, under my proposal I get exactly the same CP compensation/bonus under either model. I am asking for different timing of the retroactive CP award.

I ask again, what would a couple months difference make in regards to someone who hasn't made it to V14 yet? Is the idea that suddenly they will get motivated and spring into action? Stop rping and start questing to get to V14? Stop foruming and get to leveling?

No one is saying you don't deserve the reward, just saying wait until VR is removed to receive that reward for fairness.

Again, I ask what is fair about someone with a V14 toon waiting until 1.7?


you know, VR14 complain a lot...they complain about no new end content, they complain about not enough CP, they complain that they want the CP yesterday and cannot wait a few months till a better time, the rush through content. What will you do once you have convinced Zos to give you full CP at 1.6 launch? Complain again that there is not enough end game content and progression?

I realize this isn't all VR14 I have just characterized ... in fact it's just a minority...but the game isn't about min/maxing and "getting what's owed me" ...fact is nothing is owed...what Zos should do is provide a fair and fun environment for people to enjoy not cater to whiners like yourself who will just whine about something else later. Just focus on enjoying the game.
ok, I'll catch up more later ... sorry RL has me busy so i am behind on responses...

For some people (people that play the game they pay for) it is about min-maxing. I myself am totally casual and nowhere near the 1%, but I did reach V14, I did gather and earn a bunch of in-game stuff, I did craft my own gold gear sets. Do these things automatically make me deserving of 70 cp? Yes according to ZOS. Do those things make me deserving of 70cp, automatically when 1.6 drops? Yes, according to ZOS and according to the overwhelming majority of the community.

You claim that the game isn't about 'getting what's owed', yet you're here asking ZOS to push back a major element of a major, new system because you think you and everyone else who isn't V14 is owed more time to catchup?

You're partly right on 'nothing is owed', though. ZOS doesn't really have to give any of us anything but an operable server to play on, but if they so choose to compensate players in a timely manner, I think they have the wisdom to compensate them fairly.

The game already is a fair and fun environment, and seriously? You have the balls to say ZOS not cater to whiners when that is exactly what you want them to do? Cater to your whining.

xMovingTarget

We just should stop replying here. I dont see any point in this thread to be honest. Just because the OP will probably get 0 champ points when it comes out shouldnt affect anybody else.

So basically we dont get anything and have to wait and you OP start leveling vet again. So in the end you will be VR14 and have like 60-70 CP. But we dont. So that would give who an advantage? Exactly, YOU. And Just you.

If you dont have time to level OP, Thats your own thing. I have more time than you, maybe. But thats my thing. I am not willing to be penalised just because other Ppl dont have the same amount of time to play than me. If you are not happy because you cant play that much change it. It doesnt matter to me or anybody else. It is what it is. At no point in life can you expect to get more if you put less effort in. Thats just not how it works.

The System they have changed to now is a good solution. Its the fairest for everybody, period.

Can we stop in here at this point? This thread makes no sense and makes my brain hurt

Xjcon

Faugaun wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I think your mistake here is assuming that VR14s can earn XP faster than VR1s. That's never been the case.

I bet as a VR14 I can gain exp faster then a vr1.

and do you also think that as a VR14 gifted 70 CP you cna get exp faster than a VR14 not gifted CP ?

I don't see this as a gift. There are lots of people who have accomplished lots at VR14 played tons of hours and most of them have every quest in silver and gold done. ZOS has not said what they will do for new leveling content and I will wait till test servers are live to make my assessment of how the new system works.

BalerionBlackDread

Faugaun wrote: »

and I am saying gear+cp is even greater advantage than gear or cp alone which is why the compensation cp should wait until after VR is removed and the gear is scaled down.

Obviously great gear combined with more passives will be better, but I think you are over estimating the advantage, especially considering the fact that maybe 20 of those points may have a noticeable impact right away. Remember also, these points won't be stacked into one sign, they have to spread amongst the three. Also, even if the cp's were taken away, there is still skill points+gear, morphs+gear. What about their ability to craft 9 traits? The fact is, if the CS wasn't here we wouldn't be having this debate, because the all the other advantages a V14 inherently has over V1 are not controversial and in fact part of the game.

IxSTALKERxI

In the amount of time you've spent posting on this thread you could've gotten VR14.

dharbert

OP, you are not VR14. You will not get 70 points. There will always be players who are better than you or have an advantage. And there is nothing you can do about that. It's time for you to skip ahead to the last stage....acceptance.

seanvwolf

dharbert wrote: »

OP, you are not VR14. You will not get 70 points. There will always be players who are better than you or have an advantage. And there is nothing you can do about that. It's time for you to skip ahead to the last stage....acceptance.

@ZOS_MattFiror‌ will always be the best player and have the largest advantage. There is nothing Chuck Norris can do about that.

nerevarine1138

If getting more CP made getting CP faster, then they would have said that your ability to get CP accelerates as you get more. They haven't, so clearly that isn't the case. Just give it up already.

Faugaun

So if you get 70 cp either way why does it matter to you when you get them?

BalerionBlackDread

Faugaun wrote: »

So if you get 70 cp either way why does it matter to you when you get them?

Because it is the appointed time that we are supposed to get them. There doesn't need to be a reason why we get them when we are supposed to get them. By the way, I've posted several times, several reasons why we should get them on 1.6. You, however have not given one cogent argument as to why delaying until 1.7 is fair, balanced, reasonable, sane, logical, or feasible. What I do hear from you is this:

'I won't get 70cp when 1.6 drops, so no one should get them when 1.6 drops, instead I want everyone to wait on me to hit V14 so i can get 70cp with everyone else in 1.7'

If you want 70 cp, level your toon to V14, it is simple.

Faugaun

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

So if you get 70 cp either way why does it matter to you when you get them?

Because it is the appointed time that we are supposed to get them. There doesn't need to be a reason why we get them when we are supposed to get them. By the way, I've posted several times, several reasons why we should get them on 1.6. You, however have not given one cogent argument as to why delaying until 1.7 is fair, balanced, reasonable, sane, logical, or feasible. What I do hear from you is this:

'I won't get 70 get 70cp when 1.6 drops, so no one should get them when 1.6 drops, instead I want everyone to wait on me to hit V14 so i can get 70cp with everyone else in 1.7'

If you want 70 cp, level your toon to V14, it is simple.

Again its not about me, it is about vr + cs is too op and its should be delayed so the two systems don't overlap (the bonus at least). If you hear whining its only because you are too centered on yourself instead of taking an objective look at the problem.

BalerionBlackDread

@Fauguan, If you were a V1, would you make a thread saying it isn't fair that a V14 will have more skill points than you, so said V14 should not receive their skill points until you have all yours? Should V14's not wear their appropriate gear until you've had a chance to catchup and get the same gear? The champion system is no different than these examples, it is just one aspect of a large game, an aspect that you are blowing far out of proportion.

Faugaun

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

@Fauguan, If you were a V1, would you make a thread saying it isn't fair that a V14 will have more skill points than you, so said V14 should not receive their skill points until you have all yours? Should V14's not wear their appropriate gear until you've had a chance to catchup and get the same gear? The champion system is no different than these examples, it is just one aspect of a large game, an aspect that you are blowing far out of proportion.

Its ok I understand you are only concerned with you, one day you will understand. Its stupid stuff like this that's turns a pebble into a tsunami. I will try to help you understand better tomorrow. For now I sleep.

BalerionBlackDread

Faugaun wrote: »

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

So if you get 70 cp either way why does it matter to you when you get them?

Because it is the appointed time that we are supposed to get them. There doesn't need to be a reason why we get them when we are supposed to get them. By the way, I've posted several times, several reasons why we should get them on 1.6. You, however have not given one cogent argument as to why delaying until 1.7 is fair, balanced, reasonable, sane, logical, or feasible. What I do hear from you is this:

'I won't get 70 get 70cp when 1.6 drops, so no one should get them when 1.6 drops, instead I want everyone to wait on me to hit V14 so i can get 70cp with everyone else in 1.7'

If you want 70 cp, level your toon to V14, it is simple.

Again its not about me, it is about vr + cs is too op and its should be delayed so the two systems don't overlap (the bonus at least). If you hear whining its only because you are too centered on yourself instead of taking an objective look at the problem.

But that is just it, if you're a V1 then of course a V14 will overpower you! Unless you change your playstyle/playtime to match that V14 then you will always be behind, no matter how long the CS gets delayed, get it? Same for a new arrival, if they want to be competitive they know they will have to play accordingly, this isn't that hard to comprehend.

Actually, I use 'I and you' mostly for brevity. But, you seem to keep coming back to this being about 'other people' and not you or me, but guess what? It is about us because we both play the game. I am a V14 player who enjoys many aspects of this game, you are a (I'm guessing barely V1) who likes to sit in town and RP instead of playing the game (an action which will NEVER get you an even level with anyone above you).

And, as I have said before, when the vet system is completely gone, veterans aren't losing a damn thing except their monicker of VR**. The sp, the attributes, the skills, the morphs, and probably the gear as well will still be the same, so this idea that people will just automagically catchup if only they can make it to 1.7 is delusional.

Again, I'll bottom line this for you. Delaying will make no difference to you (it will in fact make it worse for you, I mean the 'other people' that this is all supposedly about). It will however benefit the people who care about character development and who would like as much time with the system as possible to play with (on pts and live server) before the final transition. You and anyone else who is not V14 do not deserve the full 70 cp, not when 1.6 drops, and not when 1.7 drops. I know you think that the supposed gear scaling (the only likely change to toons when 1.7 hits) combined with 70 cp (~2% of the total cp) will make people overpowered, but more like they were overpowered before the cp's because they have the skill to play better.

BalerionBlackDread

Faugaun wrote: »

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

@Fauguan, If you were a V1, would you make a thread saying it isn't fair that a V14 will have more skill points than you, so said V14 should not receive their skill points until you have all yours? Should V14's not wear their appropriate gear until you've had a chance to catchup and get the same gear? The champion system is no different than these examples, it is just one aspect of a large game, an aspect that you are blowing far out of proportion.

Its ok I understand you are only concerned with you, one day you will understand. Its stupid stuff like this that's turns a pebble into a tsunami. I will try to help you understand better tomorrow. For now I sleep.

Actually this post has nothing to with me or any individual, it is a generalized analogy to point out to you how absurd what you're asking really is. I mean, go back and really read that post, try to imagine how ridiculous it is asking for those things. You can deflect and say I'm making this about me all you want. The fact is, no amount of delay will allow people to catchup who don't want to catchup, and to delay a major implementation of a major new system for a few people who, as I have pointed out several times, will still be 'behind' when 1.7 drops regardless of what is done with the gear.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

So....when 1.6 goes live my VR1 alt will be, potentially, 70CP's more powerful than the 0CP VR1 in the OP? (I have a VR14 so qualify for 70CP's on my account)

Can't wait for 1.6 to hit the PTS to find out what a Champion Point is worth.

WraithAzraiel

Faugaun wrote: »

I'm not complaining about my own position, nor am i complaining that CPs are implemented in 1.6 (the ones that you earned during game play). I am complaining that reward of CPs earned under VR system (prior to CS launch) should not be given until VR system is completely removed. Also I am not asking for anything for nothing, under my proposal I get exactly the same CP compensation/bonus under either model. I am asking for different timing of the retroactive CP award.

No no, you're not understanding. If they didn't give Champion Points with 1.6, 1.6 would not be Champion System implementation Stage 3, it'd be pointless. You can't test how the points work without giving them to the playerbase and making adjustments in preparation for 1.7 or whenever the Champion System's 4th and FINAL stage is released.


If they waited until they removed Veteran Ranks ( WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN AT THE 4TH AND FINAL STAGE OF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM ROLL OUT!) then it would throw a massive wrench in the entire system.


It's a process. Granting Champion Points BEFORE THE REMOVAL OF VETERAN RANKS is part of that process.

I don't know how much more clear I can be on this matter. What you're suggesting would screw up the whole 4 Stage system they've got going on.

BalerionBlackDread

I am however concerned about the double bonus (temporarily) to VR 14 players (or any in the top bracket)........Please keep in mind this is from the view of a VR1 who has subbed since the beginning

It's not double, they already had the gear before the cp system, and it's not a bonus, it is compensation for the levels they earned before the cs i.e. what they would have earned if the cs had been in all along. It is not a freebie and it is not a big leap from already being in the 'top bracket'. You are admittedly a V1 and have been in game since the beginning, correct? You've had the better part of six months to get into the 'VR14, top bracket' and haven't made it there yet, correct? Right now, you as a V1 are far underpowered compared to a V14, correct? So, following that logic, what difference do you think it will make if the 70 cp is put off until 1.7? The gear won't change that much when vet levels are gone, and nothing else will change.

A V14 is supposed to be more powerful than V1, or a V13, or a lvl 35 and nothing will change that, aside form the obvious leveling of the lowers to the meet the higher. I know you believe that will be insurmountable, but they won't be to the players are trying to accomplish that (if it is to become V14 and be competitive).

See, I think that is where you're lacking in understanding because you don't want to do end-game activities. You said you like pvp (and zos has already stated that xp will be able for everyone), but I think overall (guessing here) you don't really want to go farther than V1, do you? If you did, you would have already or you wouldn't be concerned about this.

This by itself is fine, they progressed their gear and it is rightfully earned and I will suck it up

Just as the 70 cp are rightfully earned and are rightfully to be distributed at appointed time of 1.6 launch. It really isn't any different, as you yourself has said several times, you have no problem with the fact that V14's earned the cp. V14's progressed and earned their cp, I just think you have this delusory idea that if people get 70cp while they still have their VR, that they will be unstoppable, and to a VR1, hell yes they will be so if you don't want them to be overpowered, get out of your rp mode, level your toon and get V14.

WraithAzraiel

After 5 pages worth of explanations on how the proposal of the OP will absolutely not work - I'm not sure if this was a serious post.

If it is serious, then....I have no more words.