Please delay CP conversions till after VR is removed.

BalerionBlackDread

@Faugaun‌ wrote:

awarding a bonus to bigger players when they have suffered 0 loss but not doing so for small players is very biased. This is why it should instead be awarded when VR is removed.

Where do you get the idea that 'a loss = getting some type of bonus'? It's a bonus in the sense that zos doesn't have to give it to them but even bonuses (in the workplace example) are given to those who have earned them only. Really it is just retroactive compensation for earned points in a system that should have been in game from the beginning.

Why would the 'smaller' players get a 'bonus' as you call it? Do mean in the sense of giving them a boost so they are caught up with people who are level cap? If that is your intent in this whole argument, then you sir are high!

It seems like you're saying that the lower levels should get the 'bonus', so i do you mean waiting until gear is scaled back in 1.7 is enough of a 'bonus' to the 'small' players?

@Faugaun‌ wrote:

the strong get stronger and the weak cannot compete

Of course the weak can't compete against the strong (read V1 vs V14), that is why the weak become stronger, to defeat the strong, that is the whole basis of character progression. You're acting like if V14's get their 70 cp's then all leveling and character progression will stop for everyone who is not V14.

It's simple, the gap will always be there until the weak decide to 'put on their big boy pants' and progress their character.

BalerionBlackDread

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

After 5 pages worth of explanations on how the proposal of the OP will absolutely not work - I'm not sure if this was a serious post.

If it is serious, then....I have no more words.

I think you're right Wraith, and I must admit I was suckered in more than most. Damn, who knows how long the troll will live off all the responses I gave him lol

seanvwolf

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

So....when 1.6 goes live my VR1 alt will be, potentially, 70CP's more powerful than the 0CP VR1 in the OP? (I have a VR14 so qualify for 70CP's on my account)

Can't wait for 1.6 to hit the PTS to find out what a Champion Point is worth.

Yes, if you have 70cp's worth of veteran gameplay completed (aggregated among all existing vr characters) then every character on your account will have access to 70 individual CPs to distribute, including any new character. Even your newly rolled level 1 character will be able to distribute their own 70 CPs.

To address the concern of the original poster:

Think of it this way... you haven't leveled to VR14, yet. The ones who have obviously play much more than you. They will continue to play much more than you, and probably more than they did previously as they have now been handicapped in the new system without reasonable means to accrue CP through quests, and will probably accrue 70 CP before you even get to VR14 anyhow... perhaps even more. Then, when 1.7 hits, by your recommendation, they would get an extra CP boost from their original conversion, meaning they'll have much more CP now... still happy? What did it change? Nothing. You are still behind.

Valencer

seanvwolf wrote: »

Think of it this way... you haven't leveled to VR14, yet. The ones who have obviously play much more than you. They will continue to play much more than you, and probably more than they did previously as they have now been handicapped in the new system without reasonable means to accrue CP through quests, and will probably accrue 70 CP before you even get to VR14 anyhow... perhaps even more. Then, when 1.7 hits, by your recommendation, they would get an extra CP boost from their original conversion, meaning they'll have much more CP now... still happy? What did it change? Nothing. You are still behind.

It's not about being behind. It's about higher ranked players getting the immediate benefits of both champion and veteran progression at the same time, which will obviously increase the power difference somewhat (how much is debatable, depending on how influential a champion point is going to be)

As is planned now:

Between 1.6 and 1.7: veteran ranks and equivalent amount of champion points
After 1.7: equivalent amount of champion points (VR removed)

As the OP suggests:

Between 1.6 and 1.7: veteran ranks
After 1.7: equivalent amount of champion points (VR removed)

Notice how the current plan immediately increases the power gap between veteran ranks due to the added benefits of champion points?

Of course, this has nothing to do with the CP you gain naturally while playing after 1.6. I don't think anybody is suggesting we should deny anyone those.

This is about the big burst of CP theyre planning to give higher ranked players as a reward for their veteran ranks. The issue is that this will increase the power gap between the various veteran ranks if the ranks aren't removed at the same time.

I think it's an issue worth discussing. I don't know why everybody from both sides is being so hostile about this.

Frenkthevile

Valencer wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Sounds a lot like you want a "no child left behind" policy for ESO. A policy that didn't work out too well either.

Would you also like those of us who have millions of gold to stop earning gold so others can catch up to the amount we have?

Riiight. That's exactly what he said

Would it kill you to wait for the rank-to-CP conversion until veteran ranks are actually removed? The OP makes a very valid point. If this conversion goes live in Update 6, VR14s will basically get even more bonuses compared to a VR1, for no real reason.

Playing the game since launch= ''for no real reason''
OMG you're a genius.

Valencer

Okay, smart guy.

The "for no real reason" part was referring to VR14s getting even more bonuses relative to lower ranked players in Update 6 now. NOT the fact theyre getting bonuses at all. It's pretty tiring if everybody just locks onto this one line and completly blows it out of context.

Faugaun

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

I'm not complaining about my own position, nor am i complaining that CPs are implemented in 1.6 (the ones that you earned during game play). I am complaining that reward of CPs earned under VR system (prior to CS launch) should not be given until VR system is completely removed. Also I am not asking for anything for nothing, under my proposal I get exactly the same CP compensation/bonus under either model. I am asking for different timing of the retroactive CP award.

No no, you're not understanding. If they didn't give Champion Points with 1.6, 1.6 would not be Champion System implementation Stage 3, it'd be pointless. You can't test how the points work without giving them to the playerbase and making adjustments in preparation for 1.7 or whenever the Champion System's 4th and FINAL stage is released.


If they waited until they removed Veteran Ranks ( WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN AT THE 4TH AND FINAL STAGE OF THE CHAMPION SYSTEM ROLL OUT!) then it would throw a massive wrench in the entire system.


It's a process. Granting Champion Points BEFORE THE REMOVAL OF VETERAN RANKS is part of that process.

I don't know how much more clear I can be on this matter. What you're suggesting would screw up the whole 4 Stage system they've got going on.

No you are not understanding....I am saying release the CS system. Let players earn CP and use the CP they earn but don't compensate them the "bonus give me CP (you know the 70 for VR14 +1 mil experience)" until VR is removed.

Faugaun

BalerionBlackDread wrote: »

I am however concerned about the double bonus (temporarily) to VR 14 players (or any in the top bracket)........Please keep in mind this is from the view of a VR1 who has subbed since the beginning

It's not double, they already had the gear before the cp system, and it's not a bonus, it is compensation for the levels they earned before the cs i.e. what they would have earned if the cs had been in all along. It is not a freebie and it is not a big leap from already being in the 'top bracket'. You are admittedly a V1 and have been in game since the beginning, correct? You've had the better part of six months to get into the 'VR14, top bracket' and haven't made it there yet, correct? Right now, you as a V1 are far underpowered compared to a V14, correct? So, following that logic, what difference do you think it will make if the 70 cp is put off until 1.7? The gear won't change that much when vet levels are gone, and nothing else will change.

A V14 is supposed to be more powerful than V1, or a V13, or a lvl 35 and nothing will change that, aside form the obvious leveling of the lowers to the meet the higher. I know you believe that will be insurmountable, but they won't be to the players are trying to accomplish that (if it is to become V14 and be competitive).

See, I think that is where you're lacking in understanding because you don't want to do end-game activities. You said you like pvp (and zos has already stated that xp will be able for everyone), but I think overall (guessing here) you don't really want to go farther than V1, do you? If you did, you would have already or you wouldn't be concerned about this.

This by itself is fine, they progressed their gear and it is rightfully earned and I will suck it up

Just as the 70 cp are rightfully earned and are rightfully to be distributed at appointed time of 1.6 launch. It really isn't any different, as you yourself has said several times, you have no problem with the fact that V14's earned the cp. V14's progressed and earned their cp, I just think you have this delusory idea that if people get 70cp while they still have their VR, that they will be unstoppable, and to a VR1, hell yes they will be so if you don't want them to be overpowered, get out of your rp mode, level your toon and get V14.

Why do you think 1.6 is the right time? Would you feel better if this gripe were coming from a VR14? I will be happy to level to VR14 and maintain the same stance.

Suppose power level is on a scale of 1-64 (1 point for each level and vr rank) and 1 VR rank is equal to 5CP, so 15 points (70 CP) gets added to this 1-64 scale (because of bonus CP) now this means the power scale with only CS system is 50 + 14 = 64 and the power system with only VR is 50 + 14 = 64. However giving the bonus at 1.6 with VR still active results in a power of 50 + 14 + 14 = 78. All three of these values are compared vs a power level of 50 (VR1, which is also what subVR characters scale to when they goto cyrodil).

So the current power gap is 50:64 and if bonus goes at 1.6 it will instantly become 50:78 (without the 50 having the opportunity to increase his power, I'm talking the opportunity between the day CS is released and the day before).

So a power differential of 50:64 (just mathatically is a 28% power level increase, assuming all levels increase equally) and 50:78 is a 56% increase from level 50. Now people currently complain that there is too much difference in VR1 and VR14 regarding their ability to competitively fight each other. After this change it will be much worse overnight (literally) and to top it off the lower level players (the ones who are still deciding if they will continue to put time into the game) will have 0 opportunity to decrease the cp powergap. This is a unfair and biased advantage which introduces a OP element (intentionally!) To the system. It is a terrible decision to compensate players for pre-1.6 progression in the form of gift CP until the VR system is removed (supposedly 1.7).

To top this off, supose Zos decided to not remove the VR system and leave both CS and VR in place. Then by gifting CP at 1.6 they have created an artificial gap between players, for what reason?

Suppose you play a game called grindfest 1

Level cap is 100, devs decide to increase level cap to 200, but when they do it all the level 100 people are automatically jumped to 125 while everyone 99 and lower are not jumped. Its pretty sweet if you're the level 100 (I guess...if you just want to run out of content faster. .) but what about those 99 and lower? Those guys are really getting screwed, for no reason, by this action. Its a very biased and top friendly bottom unfriendly action. Suppose you were a level 50 when this occurred, would you be inclined to continue spending money on a game where the admins intentionally put weaker players at a bigger disadvantage?

This is not good for the game to give CP at 1.6 not at all.

Faugaun

Valencer wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

Think of it this way... you haven't leveled to VR14, yet. The ones who have obviously play much more than you. They will continue to play much more than you, and probably more than they did previously as they have now been handicapped in the new system without reasonable means to accrue CP through quests, and will probably accrue 70 CP before you even get to VR14 anyhow... perhaps even more. Then, when 1.7 hits, by your recommendation, they would get an extra CP boost from their original conversion, meaning they'll have much more CP now... still happy? What did it change? Nothing. You are still behind.

It's not about being behind. It's about higher ranked players getting the immediate benefits of both champion and veteran progression at the same time, which will obviously increase the power difference somewhat (how much is debatable, depending on how influential a champion point is going to be)

As is planned now:

Between 1.6 and 1.7: veteran ranks and equivalent amount of champion points
After 1.7: equivalent amount of champion points (VR removed)

As the OP suggests:

Between 1.6 and 1.7: veteran ranks
After 1.7: equivalent amount of champion points (VR removed)

Notice how the current plan immediately increases the power gap between veteran ranks due to the added benefits of champion points?

Of course, this has nothing to do with the CP you gain naturally while playing after 1.6. I don't think anybody is suggesting we should deny anyone those.

This is about the big burst of CP theyre planning to give higher ranked players as a reward for their veteran ranks. The issue is that this will increase the power gap between the various veteran ranks if the ranks aren't removed at the same time.

I think it's an issue worth discussing. I don't know why everybody from both sides is being so hostile about this.

This exactly, I am glad some people understand hopefully Zos does also. The vocal majority doesn't seem to unfortunately.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

It is NOT going to happen. The patch is already way overdue as is. Stop trying to delay it further just because you didn't take the opportunity to level up like everyone else. You have had the same time as everyone else. What you choose to do with that time is your issue. The game launched for everyone on the same day. Even those of us who are RPers have managed to get through Cadwell's challenge.

Valencer

The patch is open for feedback, as far as I'm aware. That's what made them change their plans regarding the VR-to-CP conversion in the first place. Loads of people were civilly asking ZOS to change the flat rate and they did. Besides, it isn't even on the PTS yet.

I would appreciate it if we all stopped making assumptions about people's motives... ad hominem gets you nowhere. Rest assured, with their current plans I'd still get the full 70 CP myself.

I'll just repeat it one more time as I really do feel this could have a negative impact on the health of the game between update 6 and 7 (assuming that's when ranks get removed).

After update 6 a VR1 entering Cyrodiil will have to face VR14s backed up by a maxed VR system (better gear and stats) AND a possibly really significant amount of champion points (better stats again). The power gap increases and players are pushed even more to go rush to VR14.

It doesn't have to be like that. They could instead exchange the veteran ranks when they get removed in update 7. Simple as that. Everybody could still naturally acquire champion points while playing as they want and VR14s (or VR8s, whatever) will get their rightful CP reward when their ranks get removed.
Give every vet player a flat rate now as originally planned (but maybe less than 30 CP) to help kickstart the CP system if being able to test and play around with the system is a concern.

Gyudan

It could be much worse too. 70CPs won't create a "huge" difference.
Counting the post-lvl50 XP of my character, I reached 57M. With the current "exchange rate", that would mean 285 Champion Points, 4 times the cap. That would create a big difference.
I think that the system won't be fair until people complain equally about players getting too much or too little, which is what is currently happening. ZOS managed to compromise well enough.

Keep questing, keep gaining XP and the difference will soon be gone.

Faugaun

Gyudan wrote: »

It could be much worse too. 70CPs won't create a "huge" difference.
Counting the post-lvl50 XP of my character, I reached 57M. With the current "exchange rate", that would mean 285 Champion Points, 4 times the cap. That would create a big difference.
I think that the system won't be fair until people complain equally about players getting too much or too little, which is what is currently happening. ZOS managed to compromise well enough.

Keep questing, keep gaining XP and the difference will soon be gone.

This isn't about too much or too little CP it is about WHEN, to receive the bonus 70 CP. Zos has decided 70 is fair and balanced and the rest of us should accept that they in their position of being able to play with the system are best able to determine the quantity.

My opinion remains that the timing of the bonus CP is very important to the health of the community at large. As a paying customer I have a vested interest in the game succeeding and attracting new subscribers as well as a great community. This should be everyone's goal in my opinion since we all seem to enjoy the game. Some players who probably have good intentions seem to be overlooking the more longterm and indirect effects preferring the shortsighted view that "I want more CP now".... You know its funny back in the day, muds, mushes, the earlier MMOs, whenever devs would change thing to balance the players took it with a grain of salt. There was some vocalization but not nearly what it is today....I really miss the original gaming community....then again we were probably crazy to love UO's skill levelling system. Take it for what its worth...I've apparently gone into a tangent...

Mormo

Let's all just give it a rest and, oh, I don't know, PLAY THE GAME?

In the end, those who play the most will be rewarded while those who do not will slowly fall behind. It's the same in life as well. So let's all stop crying into an ocean of despair and get excited for the patch.

seanvwolf

Faugaun wrote: »

This isn't about too much or too little CP it is about WHEN, to receive the bonus 70 CP. Zos has decided 70 is fair and balanced and the rest of us should accept that they in their position of being able to play with the system are best able to determine the quantity.

If a VR1 is able to level to VR14 and get 70CP worth of experience after it moves to live in the time it takes you to earn VR2 and 5CP, would you still complain about the power gap? No.

Now consider if Vet ranks were removed competely now.
So everyone's level 50, and two new level 50's start earning their Champion Points... One plays every day for a week and earns their 70cp. You play and only earn 5. Are you going to complain about the power gap? No.

A majority of players put much more time into veteran rank gameplay than just 70cp worth. If it was the fairest implementation, some players would have a thousand CP or more... while you have very few... Are you going to complain about the power gap? No.

Let's say that instead of the CP system, ZOS decided to retain Veteran ranks and implement v15-v28. Some players will have already gained 14 million more experience in the time they spent with their main veteran characters. So on roll out, they'd get autoleveled to v28 "for no reason". Would you complain about the power gap? No.

Faugaun

seanvwolf wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

This isn't about too much or too little CP it is about WHEN, to receive the bonus 70 CP. Zos has decided 70 is fair and balanced and the rest of us should accept that they in their position of being able to play with the system are best able to determine the quantity.

Your argument continues to be inane... again. I've already stated that if you haven't managed to get 70CP worth of points in nearly a year of game time, then likely you will not put as much Veteran time after CS phase 3 moves on Live. So if a VR1 is able to level to VR14 and get 70CP worth of experience after it moves to live in the time it takes you to earn VR2 and 5CP, would you still complain about the power gap? No.

Now consider if Vet ranks were removed competely now.
So everyone's level 50, and two new level 50's start earning their Champion Points... One plays every day for a week and earns their 70cp. You play and only earn 5. Are you going to complain about the power gap? No.

A majority of players put much more time into veteran rank gameplay than just 70cp worth. If it was the fairest implementation, some players would have a thousand CP or more... while you have very few... Are you going to complain about the power gap? No.

Let's say that instead of the CP system, ZOS decided to retain Veteran ranks and implement v15-v28. Some players will have already gained 14 million more experience in the time they spent with their main veteran characters. So on roll out, they'd get autoleveled to v28 "for no reason". Would you complain about the power gap? No.

Were people auto levelled in previous VR increases and I missed that? Why should they deserve to be auto-levelled....see that's the problem with your logic its all "I am owed for all the work I put in"...you know back in Pac-Man you got a certain number of lives and once they were gone they were gone. When you lost them you started over ...no you didn't get any benefit despite having done it a hundred times...now I'll be the first to admit the first time I played a game with a save point (well some had codes prior to save points which jumped you to acertain point) it was Dragon Warrior.....that was really cool....its kinda neat looking back at the last 30 years of video game evolution...having been there for all of the changes....

This idea that you should be Auto-levelled to max based on previous effort is one of the most ludicrous ideas that I have ever heard....players already complain that there is not enough content in games (because it is easy to chew through content much faster than it is created). Now you want to be handed advancement in the new content allowing you to chew through it faster.

You know I've been there, end level competition, etc...I get your addiction to feeling like you need to brag about your digital acheivements and accomplishments...its really not something you need or even desirable. Pushing in this direction will eventually lead to:

New content released...OK we are starting everyone out at max level...not sure why we programmed the lower levels in but hey you guys like it! An hour later ...OK we've logged in got all the acheivments cause we were grinding exp before the new achievements existed.....devs why arnt you making more content....oh by the way please do these UI fixes also....I feel sorry for Devs these days....then they have the business people on the other end....you all went selling enough fix it!

/throws hands up ....."sheesh so needy"

We should name the newest generation the "gimme, gimme, gimme" generation ....in the future people will sit at home on government funding playing their "poverty" mmo subscriptions because they are owed everything ....and even then they will be owed something....so much for controlling national debt.

/rantover

BalerionBlackDread

@Faugaun‌ wrote:

Why do you think 1.6 is the right time? Would you feel better if this gripe were coming from a VR14? I will be happy to level to VR14 and maintain the same stance.

I've explained several times why it is better to have more time with more points on a live server if you care about character progression. You can try to level to V14, but as I've said before I doubt you can. I seriously doubt you want to or have the ability to level to V14. Regardless, I've also explained to you umpteen times as has many people on this thread that what your suggesting a (won't work out the way you think it will and b) screws the entire roll out of the system. If you (or anyone else, b/c you know, it's not about you) believe the power gap is too wide then close that gap by leveling, getting/making better gear, getting skill points, earning gold, etc. and stop sitting in town fiddle f**king around with your little RP stories. I'm sorry I can't be kind about this anymore, you aren't getting it, hero. The gap is already there, as it should be, a V14 should be more powerful than a V1. A V1 shouldn't be able to compete with a V14, that's why the V1 has to level to meet the challenge. As I have said before, this is the heart of mmo's/rpgs/character development. If you can't understand this, I'm sorry then you are being willfully dense.

@Faugaun wrote:

Suppose power level is on a scale of 1-64 (1 point for each level and vr rank) and 1 VR rank is equal to 5CP, so 15 points (70 CP) gets added to this 1-64 scale (because of bonus CP) now this means the power scale with only CS system is 50 + 14 = 64 and the power system with only VR is 50 + 14 = 64. However giving the bonus at 1.6 with VR still active results in a power of 50 + 14 + 14 = 78. All three of these values are compared vs a power level of 50 (VR1, which is also what subVR characters scale to when they goto cyrodil).

OK, the '14 points' don't get added because they don't represent a character level. All champion points are passives, they hardly are equivalent to a whole character level worth of power. You can't say 'the cs system is 50 + 14' because the cs system in now way represents character levels. 50 + 14 + 14: This would mean that some is level VR28, which is ridiculous. Character levels can't be compared to CP and vice versa because they aren't the same.

@Faugaun‌ wrote:

So a power differential of 50:64 (just mathematically is a 28% power level increase, assuming all levels increase equally)

Power does not increase equally, you control how your power increases by what skills you pick, what gear you get, what morphs you use and what attack rotation you use. As I have explained several times, you can rise to meet the challenge if you do what is necessary. overcoming the power gap (now or later) is not an impossible task. Also, as I have said, the gap will undoubtedly be much wider when 1.7 drops. It makes no difference when the points are delayed to,

@Faugaun‌ wrote:

To top this off, supose Zos decided to not remove the VR system and leave both CS and VR in place. Then by gifting CP at 1.6 they have created an artificial gap between players, for what reason?

This will not happen, one of the key elements is the VR system going away, they aren't going to change it. If they did, the 70 CP IS NOT A DAMN GIFT, seriously why is it so hard for you to accept things.

{quote = @Faugaun‌ ] Suppose you play a game called grindfest 1Level cap is 100, devs decide to increase level cap to 200, but when they do it all the level 100 people are automatically jumped to 125 while everyone 99 and lower are not jumped. Its pretty sweet if you're the level 100 (I guess...if you just want to run out of content faster. .) but what about those 99 and lower? Those guys are really getting screwed, for no reason, by this action. Its a very biased and top friendly bottom unfriendly action. Suppose you were a level 50 when this occurred, would you be inclined to continue spending money on a game where the admins intentionally put weaker players at a bigger disadvantage?

This is not good for the game to give CP at 1.6 not at all.

Yet another false equivalency, this has nothing to do with character levels, champion points are used to unlock passives. No one is 'jumping' levels, again this system is about character development (not made up RP story development). If people want to close the gap, they can. I don't know how many times I can say it. I do think this following quote is very telling of you and why you're so concerned about this, because like I've said before, you don't really care about character progression, or advancement:

@Faugaun‌ wrote:

Wow, OK this thread is an eye opener for me....I have exactly the opposite experience. I go places they are bustling with people. Random pugs on similar quests, I go into town see lots of people, have a very active friends list and very active guilds with tons of social element.....maybe its an RP thing and I just bump into a lot of people who are less interested in stats and more interested in having fun and creating stories....I'm actively trying to keep the social element down ATM because it is overwhelming....

Maybe that's why you feel there will be an overwhelming gap if people get their points in 1.6, because the gap does and always will exist for you, no matter what, sorry dude.

Robocles

Valencer wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Sounds a lot like you want a "no child left behind" policy for ESO. A policy that didn't work out too well either.

Would you also like those of us who have millions of gold to stop earning gold so others can catch up to the amount we have?

Riiight. That's exactly what he said

Would it kill you to wait for the rank-to-CP conversion until veteran ranks are actually removed? The OP makes a very valid point. If this conversion goes live in Update 6, VR14s will basically get even more bonuses compared to a VR1, for no real reason.

70 points... out of, what, 3600? The points given will actually be much less than those at lower levels will get by doing the same content.

Sorry, if you want to be stronger, earn it.

TequilaFire

It is not actually "auto" level it is more conversion of level from one system to another, you don't automatically get it if you haven't achieved the xp.
You should look in the mirror there is a lot of hypocrisy in many of your posts.
"Take a dev's changes with a grain of salt", etc.
Please give it a rest.

seanvwolf

[edited out] Maybe wrong on that point so I don't want to knowingly provide information I'm not sure of myself.

The last example I provided was a hypothetical.

xMovingTarget

Just stop everybody.

@BalerionBlackDread‌ made very good explainations. Cheers to him!

BalerionBlackDread

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

BalerionBlackDread

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Faugaun

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

BalerionBlackDread

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

seanvwolf

Again, let me state my example of v15-v28 as being a hypothetical (since you somehow believe that 5 CP's always equal the equivalent of one fixed Veteran rank, as it stands now; your argument for "double dipping" being the source of concern for you).

Some people will grind their way to 3600 CP in very little time, maybe even as little as a year and a half or less, if it takes them about an hour to earn a CP and they play on average 8 hours a day. What I'm getting from your argument is that you think those 3600 CP will equate to 720 Veteran Ranks. This is not the case.

The thing about CP is once they are allocated, they give very diminished returns. This means, in the end, that the person that has 360 CP compared to the person with 3600, won't have as much disparity. This is why people advocated for the Champion System in the first place.

Stalling implementation of Phase 3 and trying to merge it with Phase 4 is not a worthy endeavor, since those most affected by it will be able to level both VR ranks and CP in the interim. The only concern you have here is that, for the time between, the disparity will be a little bit greater. If you think it's double disparity, that would remain to be seen, since it hasn't even launched on the PTS.

Faugaun

2) where did I ever ask Zos to halt and completely redesign their roll out? It makes me think you have trouble reading. All I am asking is that they delay giving to points to you until after VR is removed, I'm not the one being dense. I also specifically recommended that they calculated the value of the handout at the 1.6 release so that people cannot farm up to vr14 after 1.6 release then cash in on the 'bonus' points. It is a very minor modification and you are blowing it up like it is the end of the world.

3) Where did I ever ask for a gimme ? I am fine with 0 or 70 or whatever CP, but this thread isn't about how much compensation you get or anyone else gets, it is about two systems overlapping, I'm not even asking them to not overlap the systems....it makes sense to do it under the logic they presented. I am asking them not to give certain players preferential treatment that results in double power under the two system stage 3 period and instead provide the compensation after VR is removed.

4) You are being hypocritical, for weeks I have listened patiently to lots of people whining about VR14 not getting fair CP, then when I voice a concern you have the audacity to slam me for my opinion?

Cheers,

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

seanvwolf

Maybe it's just late where he is.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Faugaun

seanvwolf wrote: »

Again, let me state my example of v15-v28 as being a hypothetical (since you somehow believe that 5 CP's always equal the equivalent of one fixed Veteran rank (as it stands now; your argument for "double dipping" being the source of concern for you).

Some people will grind their way to 3600 CP in very little time, maybe even as little as a year and a half or less, if it takes them about an hour to earn a CP and they play on average 8 hours a day. What I'm getting from your argument is that you think those 3600 CP will equate to 720 Veteran Ranks. This is not the case.

The thing about CP is once they are allocated, they give very diminished returns. This means, in the end, that the person that has 360 CP compared to the person with 3600, won't have as much disparity. This is why people advocated for the Champion System in the first place.

Sorry did not catch the hypothetical part of this

5 CP is the conversion rate Zos giving for vet ranks that is fact, if that is equivalent to other vet ranks or what, we don't know it is speculation and only Zos knows for now (but eventually CS is supposed to replace VR and the Zos exchange rate is 5cp, so that is why I say 5cp = 1 level, I also in my abbreviated example put level 3-4 power increase on par with a VR level...obviously this is probably not 100% accurate, that's why I said "assuming all levels are equal", please don't nit pick on semantics).

You are correct my concern is the double system overlap as it stands it is temporary between v1.6 and v1.7 but during that time players will be doing stuff....stuff that earns them CP (which they should totally be able to do, first for the system and second for Zos to ensure it is working as intended).

You are correct on diminishing return stuff as well, completely agree..

seanvwolf wrote: »

Stalling implementation of Phase 3 and trying to merge it with Phase 4 is not a worthy endeavor, since those most affected by it will be able to level both VR ranks and CP in the interim. The only concern you have here is that, for the time between, the disparity will be a little bit greater. If you think it's double disparity, that would remain to be seen, since it hasn't even launched on the PTS.

I think this is where you are confused, nowhere absolutely nowhere do I suggest to stall the implementation of phase 3 or to merge it with phase 4. Instead what I am saying is to go ahead with everything as planned except one small change.

The change being:

The points calculated from this thread:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145544/feedback-to-the-champion-system/p1

Be calculated when 1.6 is released (this is to prevent people from getting bonus point for VR ranks after champion system is active, a double dipping also)

The value for each account stored.

Then when VR is removed that value be added to any other CP you earned while the systems overlapped.


I hope that is more clear for you?

seanvwolf

Faugaun wrote: »

I am fine with 0 or 70 or whatever CP, but this thread isn't about how much compensation you get or anyone else gets, it is about two systems overlapping, I'm not even asking them to not overlap the systems....it makes sense to do it under the logic they presented. I am asking them not to give certain players preferential treatment that results in double power under the two system stage 3 period and instead provide the compensation after VR is removed.

This is where your own statement undermines your argument. Since players will be able to use the overlapping systems and get "double power" (which is not the intended design or even likely result of the overlaps), the person who then grinds CP and Vet Ranks during Phase 3 will still result in the same situation you currently think withholding CP will prevent.

I don't know why this is hard to understand.