State of the Game -- A Former PVP Guild Lead's Commentary

FluffiestOne

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

4. AE Damage Scaling -- AE abilities should never substitute for single target abilities for damage. There's zero reason that Impulse should even approach skills like Crushing Shock or Lava Whip for single target damage. AEs make their DPS back by hitting multiple targets (and then some) for their cost. I don't care one whit if this requires PvE re-balancing, it's an imbalance in the current system.

If you are using the version of Impulse that deals damage over time, it can be effective to weave into a single target rotation every 10 seconds. Just spamming Impulse is going to do less single-target damage than spamming Lava Whip or Crushing Shock.

Not true, it's unblockable so it can do upwards of 500+ damage if you're the correct build. Tell me you can get lava lash to hit for that while the target is trying to block, I'll give you madswagdollars.

Sanct16

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It's great to see such a detailed response from Jessica! Great job.

However...

If you don't fix block casting, and at the same time, if you nerf Magicka AoE's at the same time by making them blockable... then you are actually just buffing blocking and making it more of a problem.

Block casting has to be fixed, not buffed. Now is the time to do it, when you are revamping all skills, or else you are just going to have everyone blocking constantly...

I didn't think block casting could get worse than it is, but it definitely will if you don't fix it now.

What is broken about blockcasting?
You trade stamina for damage reduction. If you run out of stamina you are dead because you will be stunned and unable to break it.

rophez_ESO

FluffiestOne wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

4. AE Damage Scaling -- AE abilities should never substitute for single target abilities for damage. There's zero reason that Impulse should even approach skills like Crushing Shock or Lava Whip for single target damage. AEs make their DPS back by hitting multiple targets (and then some) for their cost. I don't care one whit if this requires PvE re-balancing, it's an imbalance in the current system.

If you are using the version of Impulse that deals damage over time, it can be effective to weave into a single target rotation every 10 seconds. Just spamming Impulse is going to do less single-target damage than spamming Lava Whip or Crushing Shock.

Not true, it's unblockable so it can do upwards of 500+ damage if you're the correct build. Tell me you can get lava lash to hit for that while the target is trying to block, I'll give you madswagdollars.

I'm assuming she meant in version 1.6 - where she says in another reply that impulse WILL be blockable.

Grim13

Lionxoft wrote: »

It's amazing the praise that you get when you become more translucent with changes, eh?

This needs to happen more regularly.

FluffiestOne

rophez_ESO wrote: »

FluffiestOne wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

4. AE Damage Scaling -- AE abilities should never substitute for single target abilities for damage. There's zero reason that Impulse should even approach skills like Crushing Shock or Lava Whip for single target damage. AEs make their DPS back by hitting multiple targets (and then some) for their cost. I don't care one whit if this requires PvE re-balancing, it's an imbalance in the current system.

If you are using the version of Impulse that deals damage over time, it can be effective to weave into a single target rotation every 10 seconds. Just spamming Impulse is going to do less single-target damage than spamming Lava Whip or Crushing Shock.

Not true, it's unblockable so it can do upwards of 500+ damage if you're the correct build. Tell me you can get lava lash to hit for that while the target is trying to block, I'll give you madswagdollars.

I'm assuming she meant in version 1.6 - where she says in another reply that impulse WILL be blockable.

We'll see. 100 swagdollars says even in the next patch I can get a build to make impulse do more single-target deeps than lava lash.

Columba

aoe lag spamming ruins pvp.

Lava_Croft

Columba wrote: »

aoe lag spamming ruins pvp.

Broken record.

RinaldoGandolphi

AOE blockable...well the only counter to holding up a shield is gone now.....thats just wonderful.

Roots cost to much to spam(encase), and sorcs have no way to drain stamina...just brilliant...another Nerf...sigh....

Summons will have to be insanely op to make up for this along with our terrible dps and pitiful damage compared to other classes.

Can anyone here tell me anything positive have to look forward to as a sorc? All I see is another nerf bat, and the surge changes seem to be the icing on the cake.

Someone throw me a bone here....

david.haypreub18_ESO

I'm looking forward to most of the changes. But I still think Heavy Armor is going to be weak unless you up the hard cap.

wafcatb14_ESO

all of the changes are moot if they can`t fix the lag server stabilty issues we have had since 1.3 .

As far as changes to pvp that effect pve and vice verse etc. Everquest wayyy back in 2000 15 years ago had balances between pve and pvp.

spells, damage, worked different in pvp than they did in pve. like fear stunned instead of making them flee, so you couldn`t fear people off cliffs,and make them take a exp loss death. . couldn`t charm players as people would charm players make them fight npc and lose exp on death. but they remained unchanged in pve .

Spells that did high damage like 1500+ nukes were unchanged for pve they still hit as hard as they were able to. but in pvp you couldn`t do more than 75 % of a person hp in damage with 1 spell so you couldn`t 1 shot people .

Same as melee damage melee damage ablities were unchanged for pve , as just like spell damage high dps etc was needed to do pve/raid combat .
However in pvp the capped the amount of damage you could do in 1 hit to 75 % of a players hp.

If EQ 15 years ago was able to balance ablities for pvp without nerfing them for pve . it`s silly that game companies today can`t .

instead of changing how ablities work in pvp but leaving them unchanged in pve. they just make blanket nerfs and changes that effect the ablity in both pve and pvp pissing everyone off .

olsborg

With everything becoming blockable, why dont we all start wearing shields and permablock while casting instants. Oh wait...thats already an issue...hmmm

DezIsDead

woodsro wrote: »

AOE blockable...well the only counter to holding up a shield is gone now.....thats just wonderful.

Roots cost to much to spam(encase), and sorcs have no way to drain stamina...just brilliant...another Nerf...sigh....

Summons will have to be insanely op to make up for this along with our terrible dps and pitiful damage compared to other classes.

Can anyone here tell me anything positive have to look forward to as a sorc? All I see is another nerf bat, and the surge changes seem to be the icing on the cake.

Someone throw me a bone here....

Uhm well they "changed" absorption field (nerfed), so it now gives mana health stam recovery not a flat percent because it was OP. Oh wait you wanted something to be happy about....

Joy_Division

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

3. Stamina vs Magicka AEs -- There is no good reason that Steel Tornado is blockable while Impulse/Blockade aren't. This alone prevents Stamina from standing in the same place damage-wise in group situations. The same with Brawler and other 2H area abilities. Either both stamina and magicka AEs should be blockable or neither should be. I lean towards both should be.

I think this is more complex than simply magicka = unblockable, stamina = blockable. According to my combat log, my blazing spear, an AOE magicka ability can have its damage mitigated by blocking whereas Volley, a stamina AOE ability, cannot.

6. Block Cost in LA -- Take the block cost reduction from the 1h/Shield line and stack it into the HA line so that HA + Shield = 1.5 block cost, while LA + Shield = terrible blocking.

I understand your frustration with the survivability light armor currently affords but I think this is a terrible way to approach the problem. A shield is a shield, I don't care if you are wearing a bikini or plate armor, it functions the same. People who wear light armor should have the option of extra survivability which your proposal will effectively deny if light armor and shield = "terrible blocking."

8. Stacking Ground Effects -- They're invisible half the time due to spell effect culling, they contribute hugely to the lag, and frankly are being used in silly ways (blockade of fire through the grate of an inner ring keep over front door anyone?). Make it so, universally, any ground effect erases the previous cast and replaces it -- much akin to how Cinder Storm or Caltrops work. It's time for things like this to start behaving in the same manner.

I disagree with this point. Very much so. Healing Springs needs to stack or else every advanced PvE content becomes unplayable. I cringe at the prospect of some level 10 recruit's ground effect replacing the Emperor's. And at the prospect of wasting my resources because my spell effects simply vanish. that being said, I do agree with the elemental wall "falling" from grates 10 meters up is rather silly...

13. Buff Servers -- Kill buffs outside of the PVP zone. It's time for Buff servers to die the death they deserve.

Two separate points actually. It has been much discussed and there are valid and good reasons for buffs to apply outside the PvP zone. I agree with the viewpoint that this adds to the overall game experience.

On the other hand, "buff servers" exist not because bonuses in Cyrodiil transfer to PvE land, but because there are 3 factions, 4 servers, and the vast majority of the time there are only enough PvP players for one server. They are an undesirable natural function of how PvP is currently set up.

It is possible to kill the "buff servers" that you dislike without disrupting the otherwise beneficial symbiotic relationship between PvP and PvE. If there were only 2 PvP servers, the unhealthy notion of propriety (i.e. "my" buff server) would end and there would be two contested servers in which the buffs would have to be earned.

Bashev

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

In Update 6, we're making magicka-based area-of-effect abilities blockable.

Is this related only to the PvP content? Or will you change the mechanics for the PvE boss attacks? In other words: will PvE mob AoE attacks be blockable?

Domander

Reading threads like this makes me wonder.

Do you want light armor to suck? I don't. It's great to make heavy armor better, but light armor should still be useful.

Do you want 1h and shield to be not worth using over some other weapon if you want some extra defense? I don't want pvp to = bows and staves

Do you want everyone in pvp to wear heavy armor? I want to see it useful, but not a necessity.

Do you want many of the players to never help the war in cyrodiil , because there's no incentive, and no reason to care?

Flaminir

woodsro wrote: »

AOE blockable...well the only counter to holding up a shield is gone now.....thats just wonderful.

Roots cost to much to spam(encase), and sorcs have no way to drain stamina...just brilliant...another Nerf...sigh....

Summons will have to be insanely op to make up for this along with our terrible dps and pitiful damage compared to other classes.

Can anyone here tell me anything positive have to look forward to as a sorc? All I see is another nerf bat, and the surge changes seem to be the icing on the cake.

Someone throw me a bone here....

The only 'bone' to throw is that due to the surge changes you will likely no longer have a heal.... and combined with the light armor nerf that's mentioned above you will actually be dead.

Nothing really matters when you're dead...

....and your buffed Clanfear wanders off into the distance...

...ownerless & alone....

...forever to try and scrape a living around the Nikel corridor!

Darlgon

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

@Agrippa_Invisus - Thank you for the detailed post. We genuinely appreciate you sharing your concerns with us. We've answered each question in line, below.

....
Don't worry; Update 6 is on its way! When it arrives, items will provide spell resistance and armor, making heavy armor more useful. In addition, soft caps are going away, so heavy armor won't have its effectiveness reduced.

...

This will no longer be an issue in Update 6—heavy armor will be much stronger.

...
We're actually adjusting damage in Update 6 so that siege damage can't be mitigated by armor. This adjustment comes in conjunction with damage scaling due to player character and monster rebalancing throughout the game in Update 6.

Thanks for a fantastic answer Jess. However, I am having problems reconciling these three statements. So heavy armor will mitigate every damage OTHER THAN SEIGE better with update 6? Pretty sure metal plate protects a person from rocks or shells better than cloth.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

For most people ESO PvP sucks. Next to no one is playing it. It's dead. There's no world in which the PvP numbers are viable for a commercial entity.

All these suggestions and all the coming "fixes" (which probably won't stop the kiddy spammers ruining the gameplay experience of everyone around them to the detriment of the game they profess to love) are months too late.

A stream and of new blood and old players returning to a magically lag-free and blob-free Cyro would be a miracle. This thing is sunk.

ToRelax

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

3. Stamina vs Magicka AEs -- There is no good reason that Steel Tornado is blockable while Impulse/Blockade aren't. This alone prevents Stamina from standing in the same place damage-wise in group situations. The same with Brawler and other 2H area abilities. Either both stamina and magicka AEs should be blockable or neither should be. I lean towards both should be.

In Update 6, we're making magicka-based area-of-effect abilities blockable.

Does this also effect the new Magicka Bomb skill?

In that case the skill would seem pretty useless to me from what I know yet, as it has a cast time. That would be a risk without reward if the skill is blocked.

Observant

Darlgon wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

@Agrippa_Invisus - Thank you for the detailed post. We genuinely appreciate you sharing your concerns with us. We've answered each question in line, below.

....
Don't worry; Update 6 is on its way! When it arrives, items will provide spell resistance and armor, making heavy armor more useful. In addition, soft caps are going away, so heavy armor won't have its effectiveness reduced.

...

This will no longer be an issue in Update 6—heavy armor will be much stronger.

...
We're actually adjusting damage in Update 6 so that siege damage can't be mitigated by armor. This adjustment comes in conjunction with damage scaling due to player character and monster rebalancing throughout the game in Update 6.

Thanks for a fantastic answer Jess. However, I am having problems reconciling these three statements. So heavy armor will mitigate every damage OTHER THAN SEIGE better with update 6? Pretty sure metal plate protects a person from rocks or shells better than cloth.

You put armor on, and I'll launch 200lb meatbags and thousands of baseball sized rocks. Let's see how well the armor holds up.

I can definitely see your POV though.

yodased

I guess its moot, but plate armor would at least make a better looking corpse than a chiffon.

LonePirate

I was impressed that Jessica even posted in this forum which seems to occupy a dark corner which ZOS ignores. I was then shell shocked that she addressed each of the major points raised. I don't know how to react to these developments.

Observant

LonePirate wrote: »

I was impressed that Jessica even posted in this forum which seems to occupy a dark corner which ZOS ignores. I was then shell shocked that she addressed each of the major points raised. I don't know how to react to these developments.

ZOS' latest game improvement: "Communication"

Xsorus

1.6 Is going to be very interesting after all these changes..

Esp with the removal of Softcaps on some stats...I'm currently eyeing something very interesting....

Eglath

So since we know at least someone from ZOS is reading this, I have one message fot them:
Many ppl are tired of current game/pvp state, and await 1.6 as a prophet that will save us all. Please make it amazing, take your time, I can wait little more to get better content, but get this done, improve the game. Make it great! It definitely has potential. Well maybe except sorc changes *sheds few tears*

Roechacca

Wow . N actual response from ZOS on the subject . Cool !

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Bashev wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

In Update 6, we're making magicka-based area-of-effect abilities blockable.

Is this related only to the PvP content? Or will you change the mechanics for the PvE boss attacks? In other words: will PvE mob AoE attacks be blockable?

In general, this does include PvE monster/boss AoEs, but some monster/boss AoEs may be deemed unblockable by the designer who created the encounter.

risen1981

Wow never thought we would get a reply...
Well done, looking forward to the changes

Roechacca

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

In Update 6, we're making magicka-based area-of-effect abilities blockable.

Is this related only to the PvP content? Or will you change the mechanics for the PvE boss attacks? In other words: will PvE mob AoE attacks be blockable?

In general, this does include PvE monster/boss AoEs, but some monster/boss AoEs may be deemed unblockable by the designer who created the encounter.

Will the Devs test the new changes against players on the test server ?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

roechacca wrote: »

Will the Devs test the new changes against players on the test server ?

Actually, yes! We're planning a PVP test event for Update 6, where we will have as many developers as we can get to participate, on all three sides. We'll be posting our PTS event schedule as soon as we have a better idea of what will work best for everyone here.