champion points

Guppet

Instead of being butt hurt, people need to understand what ZOS are trying to do. They lost hundreds of thousands of players too the grind that was Vet levels. If those players see this and know that they won't be too far behind if they come back, then there's a damn good chance that a lot of them will come back.

It does not matter how much people moan now, the fact is you stuck with the game through some pretty quit worthy things and chances are that 90% of people moaning that they will quit, just wont. ZOS knows this. its a calculated gamble to bring back players who left.

They also cant let players who have been here since the beta be too far ahead or they become gods, heck some of them already think they deserve to be just that.

I have 3 VR characters, 2 of them have completed Cadwells gold and I can accept losing all that progress for the future health of the game, if you cant, you need to ask why you value progress within a game so much that its causing so much anger.

Leon119

Guppet wrote: »

Instead of being butt hurt, people need to understand what ZOS are trying to do. They lost hundreds of thousands of players too the grind that was Vet levels. If those players see this and know that they won't be too far behind if they come back, then there's a damn good chance that a lot of them will come back.

It does not matter how much people moan now, the fact is you stuck with the game through some pretty quit worthy things and chances are that 90% of people moaning that they will quit, just wont. ZOS knows this. its a calculated gamble to bring back players who left.

They also cant let players who have been here since the beta be too far ahead or they become gods, heck some of them already think they deserve to be just that.

I have 3 VR characters, 2 of them have completed Cadwells gold and I can accept losing all that progress for the future health of the game, if you cant, you need to ask why you value progress within a game so much that its causing so much anger.

Because it makes us feel all the effort we put in the game was for naught.
if you dont care that what you do doesnt matter good for you. The rest of us care

xaraan

Guppet wrote: »

Instead of being butt hurt, people need to understand what ZOS are trying to do. They lost hundreds of thousands of players too the grind that was Vet levels. If those players see this and know that they won't be too far behind if they come back, then there's a damn good chance that a lot of them will come back.

It does not matter how much people moan now, the fact is you stuck with the game through some pretty quit worthy things and chances are that 90% of people moaning that they will quit, just wont. ZOS knows this. its a calculated gamble to bring back players who left.

They also cant let players who have been here since the beta be too far ahead or they become gods, heck some of them already think they deserve to be just that.

I have 3 VR characters, 2 of them have completed Cadwells gold and I can accept losing all that progress for the future health of the game, if you cant, you need to ask why you value progress within a game so much that its causing so much anger.

I've never threatened to quit over all the things I've seen in the game that I didn't like in the past. I'm not threatening to now, I'm thinking about it and trying to mull it over so I don't make a decision simply because I'm irritated. Asking ZoS for clarification would help that process.

Personally, I've explained what I expected and it's still fair to those of us that have stuck with the game without putting us too far ahead of those just jumping in. But in the end, it's pretty insulting that they are fine to treat their loyal customers badly in hopes of luring back some of those that will probably leave again after a couple months or the next bad change.

People need to stop demeaning concerns "it's just a game" wahh, crap and look at it for what it is. Some of us feel bad because we are loyal customers and dedicated players and not being treated as such.

If you do want to boil it down to game terms, it's simply unfair to take away that much opportunity to earn points without giving them anything in return. I now have 5 1/2 characters that I cannot do quests on to earn points (that is what I enjoy doing the most in the game). That puts me at quite a disadvantage over someone that just hit v1 and still has 8 characters to do silver/gold on. Games should be fair, if they aren't, people have a right to be upset and it's not stupid, calling it stupid is.

jeevin

If this rolls out Zenimax are hurting the most valued asset they have. Loyal customers. Zos has basically lied to keep us paying and playing, with no intention of coming good on a commitment they made to us. Thats a good enough reason for a mass exodus that Zenimax can ill afford.

jeevin

Oops double post..

Rivan12

Guppet wrote: »

They also cant let players who have been here since the beta be too far ahead or they become gods, heck some of them already think they deserve to be just that.

I have 3 VR characters, 2 of them have completed Cadwells gold and I can accept losing all that progress for the future health of the game, if you cant, you need to ask why you value progress within a game so much that its causing so much anger.

Your spot on, future health of the game to me is exactly why they went this route. It's more important than funneling too many CP to the 'all about me' crowd. Good for them. And good for you sir/maam!

Guppet

xaraan wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

belgarion1270ub17_ESO wrote: »

Here is hoping when they do clarify they state the intention was to avoid the current playbase gaming the coming champion system from the jump. No way an account with multiple VR14s getting a large stack of champion points would be good for future players.

Guess we all will await clarification. It pretty well known people have been planning to game this thing since it was announced. They needed to prevent that 100%. Sorry to the hardcore grinders/levelers but makes no sense to separate the player base on how fast you get your 8 slots to VR14.

I agree people shouldnt get a huge difference in CP.
they should give them based on game hours.
so that way even if you have more xp cuz you grinded you get the same as someone who just enjoyed his gametime

As a guy with 5 v14s (that doesn't have more questing to do on them and therefore significantly less opportunity to gain points that a new v1) I can tell you I thought you would get XX number of points for v1, then X for each vet level, up to an equivalent to v15 (since they said they were tracking xp past v14). I didn't expect that number to multiply by 5 after that because I have that many more characters. That's not an unbalanced expectation for putting in over 110 days and leveling several guys. (At least those that just grinded can go back and do quests for xp - I don't even have that option).

110 days? Really? you want someone to do the math on the percentage of your life you have spent in the game, since it launched? Its going to be significantly more than any full time job (about 70+ hours a week). You cant expect any sort of direct link from that to what you will be rewarded. You are exactly why they needed to cap it!!! In fact your probably evidence of why they will end up needing to put a cap on how quickly people can earn CP going forward.

Rivan12

And to anyone that thinks oh well it doesn't matter to me and I agree with ZoS because I don't have an account that would qualify for more CP anyways if it were implemented differently....

The VR13 nearly VR14, VR6, VR5, VR1, VR1 characters on my account would tell you differently. I know why they are doing it like this, and I agree with their choice.

xaraan

Guppet wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

belgarion1270ub17_ESO wrote: »

Here is hoping when they do clarify they state the intention was to avoid the current playbase gaming the coming champion system from the jump. No way an account with multiple VR14s getting a large stack of champion points would be good for future players.

Guess we all will await clarification. It pretty well known people have been planning to game this thing since it was announced. They needed to prevent that 100%. Sorry to the hardcore grinders/levelers but makes no sense to separate the player base on how fast you get your 8 slots to VR14.

I agree people shouldnt get a huge difference in CP.
they should give them based on game hours.
so that way even if you have more xp cuz you grinded you get the same as someone who just enjoyed his gametime

As a guy with 5 v14s (that doesn't have more questing to do on them and therefore significantly less opportunity to gain points that a new v1) I can tell you I thought you would get XX number of points for v1, then X for each vet level, up to an equivalent to v15 (since they said they were tracking xp past v14). I didn't expect that number to multiply by 5 after that because I have that many more characters. That's not an unbalanced expectation for putting in over 110 days and leveling several guys. (At least those that just grinded can go back and do quests for xp - I don't even have that option).

110 days? Really? you want someone to do the math on the percentage of your life you have spent in the game, since it launched? Its going to be significantly more than any full time job. You cant expect any sort of direct link from that to what you will be rewarded. You are exactly why they needed to cap it!!! In fact your probably evidence of why they will end up needing to put a cap on how quickly people can earn CP going forward.

I work from home and don't really have normal job hours. All the veiled insults about that ignores the point I made about what I expected. I didn't expect to get points for all those hours or points for each characters vet level, I expected much less than that, but at least something for the effort I've already put into the game and the missed chances to earn points for me in the future.

TequilaFire

OMG now I am tempted to use the fanboi word.
@Guppet, really?
Why not just reset all leaderboards too, that will also keep subs. lol

Rivan12

TequilaFire wrote: »

OMG now I am tempted to use the fanboi word.
@Guppet, really?
Why not just reset all leaderboards too, that will also keep subs. lol

Leaderboards should be on the table for a hard reset with the Champion System. Archive the 'old' leaderboards as the game will change so drastically they shouldn't count for much after U6.

Gilvoth

remember way back when we were in the bethesda forums and 1st heard that zenimax was going to close off all areas of the game and not allow free roaming to other alliances and we were shocked that it was even possible that they could even THINK to remove the freedom we all knew and loved in the elderscrolls series. was shocking indeed and we all lied to ourselves thinking it would be a good thing.

remember when we were in bethesda forums and heard rumer that eso would completely be removing all the abilities and basics we had in es series and give us forced classes, with not only classes they also had horrible passives and that we would also be forced to have members in our alliance that we knew for a fact we hated, for example the nords mingling with the dark elves ...

remember after months and months and months of promises that we would Never see a cash shop they introduced the pay walls and pay gates with the colectors edition and the horse. remember how angry we were about it and all the videos made from people expresing thier anger.

remember when they removed things repeatedly from game play and skills that had no effect in pvp nor pve that hurt anyone but yet they ignore the things that DO cause imbalance in both pvp and pve, like for example the speed nightblades had from the armor set.

time again and again and again thier doing this over and over, yet no one takes true note to the trend.
take a look and see if you remember the thread started by a zenimax employee high on the pay scale asking for everyone to just accept that zenimax's only intention was to "make a great game" and we were asked to simply accept the decisons made with out complaint and have an open mind, yet the result was loss in a big scale of most of the elderscrolls main fans and along with them leaving also went thier subscriptions ...

there are alot more to add to the list that i for Sure have not mentioned but i can promise you it will continue and will not change untill the leadership and decison making in eso changes.

TequilaFire

I think that is the point, nothing means anything anymore if these facts are true.

Enodoc

If this decision is based on their decision to drop the points from 400 CPs per star to 100 CPs per star, maybe that's what we need to address. I missed the reasoning behind that, but I'm pretty sure the mentioned 30 points was related to it. To ensure that nobody is diddled out of what they have earned (in terms of XP to CP up to a reasonable cap), maybe they should make it 200 CPs per star, and grant CPs for XP at the upcoming rate (say it's 1 CP for 100,000 XP) for the CP they have been tracking up to 150. In a system with 3600 CPs, this is 4% of the total and not an unreasonable reward for those people who have already done the content and are therefore unable to get the points from it that others will be getting.

Darkonflare15

I find that people are getting mad over nothing and until there is clarification on this subject, there is nothing to fret over. I going to continue to playing game because I find that people just bring more confusion,fear and anger when it is not needed. I am happy that I can make my character even more unique and that has been clarified.

Guppet

TequilaFire wrote: »

OMG now I am tempted to use the fanboi word.
@Guppet, really?
Why not just reset all leaderboards too, that will also keep subs. lol

You can't ever call me a fanboy. Check my post history, in particular my post just after 1.5 asking if they had just killed their own game.

As has already been said, yes they should reset all leaderboards when 1.6 hits, as all systems change, so you can't compare like for like results. So if you were trying to be a smart aleck, you failed miserably.

Darkonflare15

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

remember way back when we were in the bethesda forums and 1st heard that zenimax was going to close off all areas of the game and not allow free roaming to other alliances and we were shocked that it was even possible that they could even THINK to remove the freedom we all knew and loved in the elderscrolls series. was shocking indeed and we all lied to ourselves thinking it would be a good thing.

remember when we were in bethesda forums and heard rumer that eso would completely be removing all the abilities and basics we had in es series and give us forced classes, with not only classes they also had horrible passives and that we would also be forced to have members in our alliance that we knew for a fact we hated, for example the nords mingling with the dark elves ...

remember after months and months and months of promises that we would Never see a cash shop they introduced the pay walls and pay gates with the colectors edition and the horse. remember how angry we were about it and all the videos made from people expresing thier anger.

remember when they removed things repeatedly from game play and skills that had no effect in pvp nor pve that hurt anyone but yet they ignore the things that DO cause imbalance in both pvp and pve, like for example the speed nightblades had from the armor set.

time again and again and again thier doing this over and over, yet no one takes true note to the trend.
take a look and see if you remember the thread started by a zenimax employee high on the pay scale asking for everyone to just accept that zenimax's only intention was to "make a great game" and we were asked to simply accept the decisons made with out complaint and have an open mind, yet the result was loss in a big scale of most of the elderscrolls main fans and along with them leaving also went thier subscriptions ...

there are alot more to add to the list that i for Sure have not mentioned but i can promise you it will continue and will not change untill the leadership and decison making in eso changes.

Yeah I remember all of those things as well and none of that never really affected me because I did not allow hate generated from all the speculating to change my judgement on the game. If I would of did that I would of quit doing the beta.

Guppet

xaraan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

belgarion1270ub17_ESO wrote: »

Here is hoping when they do clarify they state the intention was to avoid the current playbase gaming the coming champion system from the jump. No way an account with multiple VR14s getting a large stack of champion points would be good for future players.

Guess we all will await clarification. It pretty well known people have been planning to game this thing since it was announced. They needed to prevent that 100%. Sorry to the hardcore grinders/levelers but makes no sense to separate the player base on how fast you get your 8 slots to VR14.

I agree people shouldnt get a huge difference in CP.
they should give them based on game hours.
so that way even if you have more xp cuz you grinded you get the same as someone who just enjoyed his gametime

As a guy with 5 v14s (that doesn't have more questing to do on them and therefore significantly less opportunity to gain points that a new v1) I can tell you I thought you would get XX number of points for v1, then X for each vet level, up to an equivalent to v15 (since they said they were tracking xp past v14). I didn't expect that number to multiply by 5 after that because I have that many more characters. That's not an unbalanced expectation for putting in over 110 days and leveling several guys. (At least those that just grinded can go back and do quests for xp - I don't even have that option).

110 days? Really? you want someone to do the math on the percentage of your life you have spent in the game, since it launched? Its going to be significantly more than any full time job. You cant expect any sort of direct link from that to what you will be rewarded. You are exactly why they needed to cap it!!! In fact your probably evidence of why they will end up needing to put a cap on how quickly people can earn CP going forward.

I work from home and don't really have normal job hours. All the veiled insults about that ignores the point I made about what I expected. I didn't expect to get points for all those hours or points for each characters vet level, I expected much less than that, but at least something for the effort I've already put into the game and the missed chances to earn points for me in the future.

I totally understand where you are coming from. ZOS gave you the expectation that you would have significantly more CP, that a fresh VR1. It's quite clear however, that they have made a brave decision, to do what is best for the games long term health, rather than be held to ransom by hardcore players. It's thier game, they can change it any way they want. I'm sure you have already realised that they will not be changing thier mind, hence dropping that bombshell just before the holiday break, so it's all cooled down before the patch hits the PTR.

I too work from home, but I don't have an average weekly play the of 70+ hours. That's not healthy. Still at least you did not try to claim it's because you are disabled (as some have tried) so respect for that at least.

Also people need to start thinking about the cap on earning CP going forward, that has to happen too (or the initial cap quickly becomes pointless, when some put in 70 hours a week) At least with that though you'll know when you hit it.

xaraan

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I find that people are getting mad over nothing and until there is clarification on this subject, there is nothing to fret over. I going to continue to playing game because I find that people just bring more confusion,fear and anger when it is not needed. I am happy that I can make my character even more unique and that has been clarified.

I find the lack of clarification a bit concerning personally. They have seen the thread, it's the biggest thread here about the show and yet they commented in several others and ignored this one (and the few others just like it). They did this right before taking off on the weekend, and probably xmas break, which means it might not get clarified until after the new year. Which is pretty bad to leave your customers hanging that long if so. I hope I'm wrong and we'll hear something soon.

xaraan

As for everyone saying it's no big deal, I hope you realize we aren't asking for hundreds of points. Even if they did something like 30 points plus one per vet level up to v15 (since they said they tracked past v14) or 3 points per vet level period without the initial 30. And then cap it at one character.

I certainly was not expecting whatever we get to be amplified by the amount of vets I have, I knew they said it would be capped. But capped at v14 (15), not v1. That's BS.

Gidorick

So, if I DON'T have a VR1 character... will I get the 30 points as soon as I do?

Leon119

Im ok with getting 30 points as long as a vr1 who just got there doesnt get 30 as well seeing as he doesnt deserve them

Amsel_McKay

This is great news! I will have 30 points and lots of content to do still! The min maxers will want 100000 points out of the gate for PVP ownage... This level playing field is FANTASTIC!

Gyudan

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I find that people are getting mad over nothing and until there is clarification on this subject, there is nothing to fret over. I going to continue to playing game because I find that people just bring more confusion,fear and anger when it is not needed. I am happy that I can make my character even more unique and that has been clarified.

If the clarification had been saying that this is just a misunderstanding and that players will indeed receive Champion Points on par with the XP gains that have been tracked since update 4, I think we would have seen something by now.

manny254

Gyudan wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I find that people are getting mad over nothing and until there is clarification on this subject, there is nothing to fret over. I going to continue to playing game because I find that people just bring more confusion,fear and anger when it is not needed. I am happy that I can make my character even more unique and that has been clarified.

If the clarification had been saying that this is just a misunderstanding and that players will indeed receive Champion Points on par with the XP gains that have been tracked since update 4, I think we would have seen something by now.

I have never felt more like I am playing a beta. The 1st few months had an insane amount of bugs, but if this is true then what is my incentive to play? In a beta you know your progress will be wiped away, and I have a similar feeling right now. By playing I am really just hindering my self. If nothing I do counts then why should I play until the champion system is released? If I do have to wait that long to play then this game will be off my radar.

Dazin93

manny254 wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I find that people are getting mad over nothing and until there is clarification on this subject, there is nothing to fret over. I going to continue to playing game because I find that people just bring more confusion,fear and anger when it is not needed. I am happy that I can make my character even more unique and that has been clarified.

If the clarification had been saying that this is just a misunderstanding and that players will indeed receive Champion Points on par with the XP gains that have been tracked since update 4, I think we would have seen something by now.

I have never felt more like I am playing a beta. The 1st few months had an insane amount of bugs, but if this is true then what is my incentive to play? In a beta you know your progress will be wiped away, and I have a similar feeling right now. By playing I am really just hindering my self. If nothing I do counts then why should I play until the champion system is released? If I do have to wait that long to play then this game will be off my radar.

^^This exactly. I also wonder with so many skill/morph changes if we won't have to re-level them all. When all you have is pledges or pvp to gain exp on a max character it's quite a grind to level skills trust me.

Darkonflare15

Gyudan wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I find that people are getting mad over nothing and until there is clarification on this subject, there is nothing to fret over. I going to continue to playing game because I find that people just bring more confusion,fear and anger when it is not needed. I am happy that I can make my character even more unique and that has been clarified.

If the clarification had been saying that this is just a misunderstanding and that players will indeed receive Champion Points on par with the XP gains that have been tracked since update 4, I think we would have seen something by now.

To be honest, Eso never really have been good at reassuring us quickly. They seem like the type to wait if they 100% sure if they got the info right then they tell us. Which is probably going to take awhile.

Rivan12

The below comments were copy/pasted from Tamriel Foundry forums, I thought the two differing viewpoints were worth sharing here...


madangrypally said on December 19, 2014 :

The 30 point at the start is enough to keep me away from ESO. This feels like a slap in the face after they said they were tracking exp for when champion points were released. With 3600 possible Champion points available at launch for them to make the max just 30 is just insane. They will drive more players away then they attract back.

Atropos responded with the comment below

This feels like an overreaction to me, but we’ll see how many others feel the same way. As someone who has played as much ESO as just about anyone, I don’t really care that I only start with 30 points. Just means I have stuff to do to continue growing my character. For me the fun is in the progression though, I would almost be bummed if I had already unlocked most of the new Champion System stuff without really doing anything for it (intentionally).

My Take

Gotta hand it to that Atropos guy, he has a rather keen head on his shoulders.

jeevin

Guppet wrote: »

Instead of being butt hurt, people need to understand what ZOS are trying to do. They lost hundreds of thousands of players too the grind that was Vet levels. If those players see this and know that they won't be too far behind if they come back, then there's a damn good chance that a lot of them will come back.

It does not matter how much people moan now, the fact is you stuck with the game through some pretty quit worthy things and chances are that 90% of people moaning that they will quit, just wont. ZOS knows this. its a calculated gamble to bring back players who left.

They also cant let players who have been here since the beta be too far ahead or they become gods, heck some of them already think they deserve to be just that.

I have 3 VR characters, 2 of them have completed Cadwells gold and I can accept losing all that progress for the future health of the game, if you cant, you need to ask why you value progress within a game so much that its causing so much anger.

I tend to agree with your sentiment Guppet. I'll most likely be one of those who gets angry,pisses and moans and yet still plays. For me it's not so much that Zos wants to level the playing field here that pisses me off. It's the lies. Zos claimed that we should keep playing and that character progression was still being stored even after VR14. I could be wrong here but it looks like it was just a ruse to keep players subbed. It's extremely poor form.

Tonturri

Gotta hand it to that Atropos guy, he has a rather keen head on his shoulders.

No one minds growing their characters. What they do mind is losing progress they made for that growth. I care that I, as a VR14, start with the same 30 points as a VR1 because that pretty much says 'the 13 other VR levels worth of work you put into this character is worthless'.

I - and others, probably - do not appreciate 13 million worth of exp being made worthless (or in the case of others who levels before each VR level was 1 mil, a decent amount more).

No one minds (excuse me while I try to put what I think everyone is trying to say into a more comprehensible format ) staring out even. Now bare with me here ^^ We -all- started even back at level 1. The difference is those who put in the work and got to VR14, and those who didn't.

I would almost be bummed if I had already unlocked most of the new Champion System stuff without really doing anything for it (intentionally).

Little nitpicky here, but - we're not progressing into the VR system, then gaining more exp and going into the Champion system. The progress from VR is going over to the Chamption system. So...correct me if I'm wrong, but I -could- see it as all my work through the VR system was also me working through the champion system? *shrug* Ever since they announced that the Champ system was replacing VRs, in my mind I've been working through the champion system since then.

Summary: I put work into my characters. ZOS is saying a large portion of that work is worthless (or at least, insofar as we know, since they're not clarifying it)