Play the way you want?

LoreScholar

Players are having having difficulties when playing the way they want in trails and sometimes in dungeons. For example: A player in full heavy armor and one hand and shield will need to change his/her build, because everyone on the group requires the same player to wear light armor with a destruction staff for AA (because of the Whispmother boss *DPS race*). I don't blame the other players from the group for that though.

ESO was supposed to be "Play the way you want and be who you want to be". Some players are not playing the way the want to play when doing trials and dungeons...

I understand that most of the trial groups are composed by "Min-Maxers" that just want to finish their Trails and Dungeons as fast as they can...but some people will not want to wear Light Armor and Wield a Staff, maybe because it's not their playstyle....and they don't want to be forced to wear that type of armor and use that certain weapon to get into trials.

I also understand that a full Heavy Armor player with a Two Handed weapon should revise his build when doing trials or dungeons... then that player can play the rest of the game outside trials and dungeons with full Heavy and Two Handed, being that in a group that's trying to do a DPS race is not good.

I played a DK Tank in full Heavy Armorto the Veteran Ranks and now I need to lvl up my Light Armor and Destruction Staff skills to be effective in Trails (Especially AA).

I think they should allow us to play the way we want the entire game.

Tonturri

For example: A player in full heavy armor and one hand and shield can't do trials because everyone requires that the same player wears light armor with a destruction staff

Maybe he could try to go as a tank instead of a DPS?

There's being excluded because your build, no matter how well built is it, isn't good enough, and then there's being excluded because your build is terrible and you have no idea what you're doing.

LoreScholar

What if two or more players are wearing full heavy and 1 hand and shield? and they are trying to do trials on the same group?

Rosveen

What in the world possessed you to queue as a dps in full heavy with a shield?

xMovingTarget

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

For example: A player in full heavy armor and one hand and shield can't do trials because everyone requires that the same player wears light armor with a destruction staff...

Why would a tank be excluded? I mean, If there are already tanks or a tank in a grp, why would you bring another one?

Your post is wierd dude. Your example is just a basic tank. Of course nobody takes him as dps in heavy and 1h shield. Its just logic!

If same person wants to dps, that person need to have a DPS setup. I dont see a point in your post OP. Sry, but there is none.

LoreScholar

Some trial groups will not accept a single Tank in their groups "Having two full heavy armor players would be bad " they say...

Xjcon

It's so easy to be more then 1 build with this game, with the right add on you can change in seconds. I would recommend learning to be more then 1 role.

LoreScholar

This is not the situation that I'm into. But I've seen players doing that, excluding people because their armor type is not the required.

xMovingTarget

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Some trial groups will not accept a single Tank in their groups (Having two tanks would be bad )

Sanctum Ophidia = 2 Tanks. or 1 + somebody who can offtank a bit

Rosveen

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

What if two or more players are wearing full heavy and 1 hand and shield? and they are trying to do trials on the same group?

1. The group takes you both because other members can make up for your unoptimal build. Unlikely, but possible if you're playing with friends for fun.
2. One of the tanks switches to a dps build. Don't tell me 1h/s and heavy is ALL they put skill points into...
3. The instance actually can make use of two tanks, so they're happy to bring someone to help out - but it's not going to happen always.

RentNx

i agree completely with what your saying if you can do decent dps with 1h And shield/heavy armor build it shouldn't matter that your in heavy armor not medium.

LoreScholar

When I said the example with two tanks I meant group dungeons not trials...that would end badly

xMovingTarget

RentNx wrote: »

i agree completely with what your saying if you can do decent dps with 1h And shield/heavy armor build it shouldn't matter that your in heavy armor not medium.

You didnt just say that..

1H + Shield is full on defensive. so you have defense skills in the skilline. Of course you dont DPS that much with it. Its designed to help with tanking. or better to give you as user more defensive.

Xjcon

Prove to me that 1 hand and shield full heavy can do more then 700 dps.....single target.

Sleep

You can make a group that welcomes everyone. I've seen some groups that welcomes everyone, but no experienced players would join them. They're mostly for newbees. And they seldom succeed at first attempt. But you can keep trying. After a few attempts you may succeed. You don't need to be using a few elite builds to complete trials. It will just take more time if you're using a sword and a shield or something like that.

RentNx

xMovingTarget wrote: »

RentNx wrote: »

i agree completely with what your saying if you can do decent dps with 1h And shield/heavy armor build it shouldn't matter that your in heavy armor not medium.

You didnt just say that..

1H + Shield is full on defensive. so you have defense skills in the skilline. Of course you dont DPS that much with it. Its designed to help with tanking. or better to give you as user more defensive.

I was mainly making point about not being able to wear heavy armor as dps, and i said "If you can do decent dps" i do realize 1 handed and shield is for defensive purposes but I'm sure you could make a shield charge/powerbash/class skills dps build.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

RentNx wrote: »

i agree completely with what your saying if you can do decent dps with 1h And shield/heavy armor build it shouldn't matter that your in heavy armor not medium.

This game is a numbers game. If the numbers are not right it will not work well.

The PvE game has been nerfed hard and anyone with any build can make it through the game. Trials and Vet dungeons are nowhere near as easy as the main game. You probably don't even understand but DPS depends on many things. One is that you have to keep it up for a while.

Heavy Armor, simply, returns Health. Good for tanks and survivors.

Light Armor returns Magic in several forms and adds Spell Damage mitigation. This is why someone who needs to do lots of Spell Damage uses Light Armor.

Medium Armor returns Stamina and is right for Stamina builds. Anyone who wants to do lots of Stamina damage needs this Armor.

The actual Armor stat means little. I have 560 Armor on a Ring my Vampire Witch wears. She is close to Armor Softcap in 5 Light 2 Medium.

Rosveen

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

When I said the example with two tanks I meant group dungeons not trials...

It's probably doable. In normal dungeons, yes, I'm not sure about veteran - they have a few dps races, so it's not really a good idea to go with 1.5 damage dealers. Because let's face it, you won't actually be using two tanks on one dungeon boss - one of them will just be a damage dealer with a shield.

I would not try it in a PUG. There's just no benefit for the group if they choose this player over a proper damage dealer. But with friends for fun, why not.

WhiskyBob

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Players are being excluded from trials and dungeon parties because the way they play is not considered "optimal" by other players. For example: A player in full heavy armor and one hand and shield can't do trials because everyone requires that the same player wears light armor with a destruction staff...This is just an example. The situation is very bad right now, if ESO is all about "Play the way you want and be who you want to be" why are those players excluded for playing the way they want. This post is not to be seem as a "Rage post", this is to demonstrate the situation right now. I've have never been excluded from a group myself and I've been playing the game since beta, but I speak for those that are suffering right now when trying to do dungeons and trials...

Perhaps thats because some groups want to get results? Some groups want to be in top 100 weekly for the reward?

You could as well complain that they excluded you from the 100-metre-dash because you arrived in jeans, leather jacket and flip-flops.

AA or HRC can be done with heavy armored 2-handed dk dps, sorcerer healer or whatnot. Its completely doable using archaic forgotten tactics (does anyone remember what the circles of light on first boss in AA are for?) and people just don't want to do them. You can always find yourself a group of lol-built characters, form a group and just have a jolly good time.

LoreScholar

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Players are being excluded from trials and dungeon parties because the way they play is not considered "optimal" by other players. For example: A player in full heavy armor and one hand and shield can't do trials because everyone requires that the same player wears light armor with a destruction staff...This is just an example. The situation is very bad right now, if ESO is all about "Play the way you want and be who you want to be" why are those players excluded for playing the way they want. This post is not to be seem as a "Rage post", this is to demonstrate the situation right now. I've have never been excluded from a group myself and I've been playing the game since beta, but I speak for those that are suffering right now when trying to do dungeons and trials...

Perhaps thats because some groups want to get results? Some groups want to be in top 100 weekly for the reward?

You could as well complain that they excluded you from the 100-metre-dash because you arrived in jeans, leather jacket and flip-flops.

AA or HRC can be done with heavy armored 2-handed dk dps, sorcerer healer or whatnot. Its completely doable using archaic forgotten tactics (does anyone remember what the circles of light on first boss in AA are for?) and people just don't want to do them. You can always find yourself a group of lol-built characters, form a group and just have a jolly good time.

As I said on my post, I'm not the one with the problem... and I'm not complaining.

WhiskyBob

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

As I said on my post, I'm not the one with the problem... and I'm not complaining.

But you still believe they should let people participate in "Nordic Combined" with planks on their feet and a t-shirt.

xMovingTarget

RentNx wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

RentNx wrote: »

i agree completely with what your saying if you can do decent dps with 1h And shield/heavy armor build it shouldn't matter that your in heavy armor not medium.

You didnt just say that..

1H + Shield is full on defensive. so you have defense skills in the skilline. Of course you dont DPS that much with it. Its designed to help with tanking. or better to give you as user more defensive.

I was mainly making point about not being able to wear heavy armor as dps, and i said "If you can do decent dps" i do realize 1 handed and shield is for defensive purposes but I'm sure you could make a shield charge/powerbash/class skills dps build.

Ok, it wasnt obvious in your initial post

xMovingTarget

WhiskyBob wrote: »

You could as well complain that they excluded you from the 100-metre-dash because you arrived in jeans, leather jacket and flip-flops.

AA or HRC can be done with heavy armored 2-handed dk dps, sorcerer healer or whatnot. Its completely doable using archaic forgotten tactics (does anyone remember what the circles of light on first boss in AA are for?) and people just don't want to do them. You can always find yourself a group of lol-built characters, form a group and just have a jolly good time.

Whisky, i just wanted you to know, the lol on your post is from me and i did it because i laughed about this. Really funny. i cant set lol and agree, so i stick with lol

Aeratus

Excluded for wearing heavy armor?

Easy solution: Just wear a costume that looks like light/medium armor. Problem solved.

LoreScholar

Aeratus wrote: »

Excluded for wearing heavy armor?

Easy solution: Just wear a costume that looks like light/medium armor. Problem solved.

LOL

s7732425ub17_ESO

The original post is extremely over-exaggerating the situation. You can go any build you want- as long as it doesn't suck. Really bad builds are really bad, and it's your own fault if you use one.

Trials are a special beast of their own. For Trials, YOU MUST FOLLOW CERTAIN RULES, and these rules WERE CREATED BY ZOS. For example, the third boss in AA is a big DPS race. If your group does not have the DPS required, YOU CANNOT BEAT THIS BOSS. It's very simple. So if half of your group members are running 1h/s and doing 200 DPS each, YOU CANNOT BEAT THIS BOSS- ZOS SAYS SO.

Also, many of the Trial bosses favor ranged DPS over melee DPS. For example, the last boss in AA cannot be completed with more than 4 melee DPS. Why? Because of the boss mechanic. If your group has too much melee DPS, you will wipe every time due to HOW ZOS DESIGNED THAT BOSS (chain lightning boss attack).

As for heavy armor users, many of the bosses do spell damage. If you are in heavy armor and have not boosted up your spell damage at all, you will die very, very quickly. This is just how ZOS designed the game. You have to build your character to counter this, and the easiest way to do this is with light armor.

Also, the first boss in Hel Ra? It's super super easy if everyone stays at max range, spread out from one another, and just attack the boss whiile avoiding the tornadoes. However, if 6 of your group members are melee, you will die every time (if your healers are not extremely, extremely good) Why? Because of the boss mechanics implemented by ZOS.


Switching gears- Vet Dungeons.
So, these are completely different than Trials. These are much more forgiving and can be completed by almost anyone. You can pretty much run whatever build you feel like doing. As long as you can kill groups of monsters and stay alive while damaging a boss, you are good for Vet Dungeons. You do not have to play the most optimized build for these.

However, certain builds will help you complete a Veteran Dungeon quicker and easier than others. If you don't have any AOE on your bar, you are not helping your group at all with the trash mobs. It's your fault you are not helping your group. As for bosses, if you are the healer and you only have one healing spell, you are the weak link in the group and it's your fault. You can use whatever build that you want, but remember that it is group content. Every member of the group must pull his/her own weight. If you cannot do this, you are a hindrance, and the group will suffer because of your poor play.

DeLindsay

I've been excluded from a couple Dungeon runs in my ESO time just for being a Vampire because the Healer "refused to heal a Vampire". However, this is not the fault of ZoS, it 100% rests on the shoulders of players' prejudices. The exact same thing can be said for Trial runs. People will ALWAYS figure out the FOTM build and expect everyone to be that build or don't bother coming to their group. It makes literally zero difference to them that you might be capable of 200 DPS more than they are with some Stamina build that you love and are quite expert at because they have this notion in their head that their build is best and everyone else is a n00b for not emulating them.

ZoS, Trion, Blizzard or any other game company cannot change this. Even if they did everything in their power to make all build/gear combos to do the exact same DPS/HPS there would still be players who refuse to allow this or that build in their group just because they don't like it. Having played MMO's since 2006, this is something I have gotten used to and I don't let it bother me. I play the game my way when I'm solo or with a group of friends/Guildees and then I play the way that is expected of me when I'm in a pug run. It's not that big of an issue to carry around another full set of gear and have the points spent in abilities/passives and to know the FOTM rotation.

LoreScholar

xMovingTarget wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

You could as well complain that they excluded you from the 100-metre-dash because you arrived in jeans, leather jacket and flip-flops.

AA or HRC can be done with heavy armored 2-handed dk dps, sorcerer healer or whatnot. Its completely doable using archaic forgotten tactics (does anyone remember what the circles of light on first boss in AA are for?) and people just don't want to do them. You can always find yourself a group of lol-built characters, form a group and just have a jolly good time.

Whisky, i just wanted you to know, the lol on your post is from me and i did it because i laughed about this. Really funny. i cant set lol and agree, so i stick with lol

This was supposed to be a serious post at first.

PBpsy

There is no such thing as a Heavy armor S&B/2H dps no matter how hard people want it or try to make it work or what class are you using . What they usually get is a terrible tank that can't taunt and this it how it should be. If you try to PUG you will however see many of these usually low health DKs that think that flame whip is actually doing good damage and have tendency to just freaking chain pull as much trash out of the AOE and ultimates as possible instead of pulling it in the AOE and ultimates. There are few thing more funny and painfull then to be the DPS in group with next to one of these builds and fight Grobull , Imiril ,Praxin with V12 scaling . Can you get trough them with one in your group ? Yes but it usually requires the second dps and true tank to be excellent and the heals to be an awesome wizard,

Aldruin

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Players are being excluded from trials and dungeon parties because the way they play is not considered "optimal" by other players. For example: A player in full heavy armor and one hand and shield can't do trials because everyone requires that the same player wears light armor with a destruction staff...This is just an example. The situation is very bad right now, if ESO is all about "Play the way you want and be who you want to be" why are those players excluded for playing the way they want. This post is not to be seem as a "Rage post", this is to demonstrate the situation right now. I've have never been excluded from a group myself and I've been playing the game since beta, but I speak for those that are suffering right now when trying to do dungeons and trials...

Trials and group dungeons are GROUP content. If you don't take the time to play your role normally, to contribute to the group effort, then don't expect anything good. Play the way you want but don't ruin everyone else's fun. Trials require a certain DPS to be completed, and we won't fail because of some ignorant people. There are many ways to be a DD, but 1H+shield is not the way. There are many ways to heal, but 2H is not the way. Obvious things. Get over it.

Elsonso

This is why I don't think players should be allowed to see the actual numbers that happen during combat.