Play the way you want?

hutchinsonhatch

lordrichter wrote: »

For my part in this, it is not that I don't want to play in groups. It is that I don't want to group with quite a few of the people who have commented in this thread. They don't want to group with me, either. I don't care how OP my character and play is, I simply don't want to play with them. Been there, done that, have the achievement. In another game. Since the box of chocolates applies here, I have decided to simply abstain and play solo until ZOS comes up with a way to filter out certain archetypical players.

Thank you so very much for this post. I snipped most of it, but I think, this whole post is just awesome.

Morticide828

lordrichter wrote: »

Maybe a better measure would be an indication of the history of the player and the character, not the DPS and combat numbers, that would better match people together with like-skilled players.

You should probably take a look at this addon, it's quite good for what you're suggesting:
Hypertoxics Leaderboards
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=849&so=oldest&page=1


The only shortfall with it that I can see, is it may be an indication of the shoulder strength of this characters friends.

Still, if there is no leaderboard result, or a fairly terrible time - it'll give you an idea of the experience level of said player, and you can choose how to deal with them from there. Might be an alternate character, or might be a bad player.

That said, anyone trying to DPS with a sword and board in heavy armour would be kicked from any respectable trial group, instantly. I've seen those kind of idiots taunting off proper tanks to the point that it becomes taunt immune, and wipes the group.

Should be an addon that allows people to tag bad players & trolls

EQOAnostalgia

I knew play the way you want was not going to happen from the start. In every single mmorpg you have builds for classes that are needed or even socially accepted, and those that aren't. You will always have the whole min/max thing no matter how hard your game tries to get rid of it. There is really nothing that can be done to fix this problem.

Akselmo

I just play the way I want with my friends. Find a good group of people who don't cry about everything and just run around with them.

Easier said than done, but possible. The people who min/max etc. seem to be the minority..

Razzak

lordrichter wrote: »

mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

in dungeon and dragons online mmo, they allow anyone to purchase hirelings to help you through the dungeons. so anyone can play solo if they wish it.
i wish elderscrolls online did the same, would be awesome!
i prefer solo play with hirelings instead of group.

@dwemer_paleologist‌ - Please don't take offense as I certainly don't intend any - but why exactly do you play MMOs if you do not like playing with other people? There are a ton of great solo RPGs out there (especially TES games).

For my part in this, it is not that I don't want to play in groups. It is that I don't want to group with quite a few of the people who have commented in this thread. They don't want to group with me, either. I don't care how OP my character and play is, I simply don't want to play with them. Been there, done that, have the achievement. In another game. Since the box of chocolates applies here, I have decided to simply abstain and play solo until ZOS comes up with a way to filter out certain archetypical players.

I have a DK heavy two handed that none of you want to play with. It is a DK heavy two handed because that is what I wanted to play. It is built in a manner that allows me to keep PVE attackers off of me until I kill them, so it has some tank and some DPS. It does not do either role purely enough to meet with the approval of the critics. I don't use numbers but I do watch what is happening and make changes to eliminate areas where the character is under performing... based on the ability to keep them off of me until I kill them. My skill line choices and slotted skills are built around that and I am certain that no one cares what the specifics are.

I also have a NB dual wield medium that none of you want to play with. This guy is not a soldier and does not do well when ganged up on. He under performs on a lot of quest assignments where he is expected to wade in and tank.or CC in numbers. For example, the "protect me from three waves of attackers" quests. He is DPS but is not elite and he has survivability issues. He goes through 10x more healing potions than any other character I have and, as currently configured, is the poster boy for reducing the potion cool down. There are skill choices that I have not taken with this character that could improve his performance, but there are reason why those choices were not taken.

But, I have a Sorc destruction light that you people would have probably been thrilled to play with, provided I unslot the pet that tanks for me. This guy is outfitted with restoration as a strong second and can do both DPS and Heal, although Healing is still in need of development. This is the more elite build glass cannon that had been so overwhelmingly popular around here a couple months back. I cheated with this one, he wore a heavy belt to bring Armor up a little at lower levels. Today, he is exceptionally skilled at dying when alone but is OK if the foe can be dispatched quickly. The change they made to pet/summoned threat really hurt this one and the character is on the shelf while I decide if I want to keep him.

Because I use no numbers other than what is on the character screen, all of these characters are "tuned" based on how they perform in the PVE field and not on any theoretical calculations based on expectations built around numbers.

Will this get me to "max DPS"? Probably not. I might get there by accident, or by process of elimination, but once the character is able to win in PVE combat, I tend to stop tuning. I can see what the blockers are to success so I know where to put my attention, but once the blockers are eliminated, I stop looking to change things.

So, no, I don't want to group with a lot of you, and the reverse is equally true. What I want from ZOS is a way to filter out the elites so that I don't have to play with them and what the elites want is a way to filter out the people like me who are going to be wasting their time. DPS is not a measure because I may actually have DPS build that is acceptable to them. The mindset about how I play is far more important than the DPS or the acceptable nature of my build.

Nicely put and kudos for not allowing others to dictate your playstyle.

P.s. Why would anyone say a dual wielding medium NB is not good enough?

zaria

jacktors11 wrote: »

You cannot blame a game company for the a bunch of fickle players. My suggestion is to join a dedicated guild, not just for selling your goods. Join a guild where you can make friends, develop online relationships, and learn the trials and dungeons together. Trying to join a pickup trial, raid, dungeon in ANY mmo will get you the same results. No matter what game you choose, you will find this type of ridiculous player that is all about their own play time, and nobody should slow them down. This attitude should only be for serious groups who play together on a regular basis, not in a LFG pickup group. It is an MMO, and not everybody will have the same game skills, specs, etc. Hardcore players need to stay out of LFG with this attitude.

Yes, WOW random dungeons is pretty infamous for this, created in large part of the mechanism, everybody is there to farm the dungeons as fast as possible.
Still rude players was rare, totally clueless players too

Also guild runs is not only more fun but also more relaxed, teamspeak is common so you can communicate during run, this is very useful especially then everybody don't know the boss mechanism in details.

Rune_Relic

This is why I alwasy thought 1-50 should be solo training and solo jack of all trade PVP builds...but 50+ should be for group training and specialist PVE group builds.

Many of the vocals on here are MMO vets....who seem to forget many of the payers on here are TES soloists.

Those TES players need time to learn new skills and adapt.
Those MMO players need to understand their playerbase.

ZOS needs to embrace both and encourage both and allow/help them to mix.

TES say to mmo lot.... derrr TES
MMO say ot TES lot... derrr MMO

Its a hybrid. TES-MMO. Embrace it and help each other.

Kraven

RentNx wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

RentNx wrote: »

i agree completely with what your saying if you can do decent dps with 1h And shield/heavy armor build it shouldn't matter that your in heavy armor not medium.

You didnt just say that..

1H + Shield is full on defensive. so you have defense skills in the skilline. Of course you dont DPS that much with it. Its designed to help with tanking. or better to give you as user more defensive.

I was mainly making point about not being able to wear heavy armor as dps, and i said "If you can do decent dps" i do realize 1 handed and shield is for defensive purposes but I'm sure you could make a shield charge/powerbash/class skills dps build.

If sword & board heavy armor allowed you to do comparable dps but have the added survivability of those lines then it would remove the point in any other armor line. If I can spam magicka abilities in heavy armor and hit the same high dps why would I wear medium or heavy?

Take a moment. Think beyond the "I want it now!" mentality and apply a little sense. If heavy armor 2h hits the same dps as a magicka build then I'm going medium armor 2h the added crit from medium means I push my dps higher again, but wait then heavy armor wants to compete with that dps. I say to hell with it all and only have one armor and one weapon type!

There are three types of armor they each perform a function. If any one single armor type performed all three functions or even two out of three then there is no point for the other armor types. There are admittedly some balance issues atm, but S&B not doing the highest dps is not one of them.

I run DPS for trials as a stamina build, I also have a tank build I do not expect to do the same dps in each spec. Or even close. If you want to dps then adjust yourself to the role quit expecting the game to adjust to you. ESO never once ever even hinted or remotely stated there would not be a trinity, in fact it was stated well in advance long before launch and several times since that the trinity is in place. The system is in place to allow you to approach the role in a more individual way than previous titles, it doesn't mean tanks are going to be best dps and heals! (No counting DKs and balance issues, shhh) It also doesn't mean I'm going to tank in medium armor with dual wield.


TL;DR?: For the love of god people stop and think before demanding or crying "I want, I want!"

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4

Kraven

No one cares how you play solo. Play however you want with whatever build you want and it has absolutely no affect on anyone else.

HOWEVER, when you start to run group or group+ content then there are a group of other players, (people who are not you, doesn't mean they or their time is less important) who rely on you to do your task. To perform your chosen role. If your chosen role is DPS then yes you are absolutely required to meet the dps checks in the game. If your chosen role is tank then you have to meet the health/armor checks the game has in place for tanks.

You don't do a dungeon with 4 tanks then wonder why the group didn't meet the checks.

"I can't play the way I want to!? wah!"
Of course you can. No one cares. Until your game play affects others.
Don't expect everyone else to conform to that play style.
Don't expect the game itself to cater and adjust strictly to your play style.

Selfish, self centered, over inflated sense of self importance or just plain conceited whatever the culprit is, remember you're not the only person playing. You're not entitled to have the game adjust specifically to you personally.

Knootewoot

Noob question

As a NB with medium armor and DW+bow i always get kicked for reasons i do not know, probably dps.

Mostly (always) you get invited and kicked right away without the reason why.

Is this because i am wearing the bow at the moment of invite and i should only LFG when wearing the DW daggers who are in my 2nd weapon slot?

Currently i suck in PvP because i only have 1 skill i can use per weapon because i am levelling up light armor, destrostaff and resto staff and some mageguild skills. Instead of using the weapons i have 4 skills and an ultimate i dont use sitting in the slots and they level while i PvP (yeah can't use elemental wall while using bow and DW)

But i do this just to participate in trials one day and veteran dungeons.

I don't like staffs though so i think of switching back to my old setup because i liked it and solod most vet-area with it pre-nerf.

I have 2 v14 daggers and a v14 bow. And all V14 medium armor.
I have all purple gear and got 5 piece hunding and
when wearing bow 3 piece nightmothers gaze
when dual wield, 4 piece nightmoters gaze

2 covenent rings which give in 2-set also 4% crit
and a nice necklace with 1500 or so fire resist because i am a vampire.

Am i playing with wrong items?

I used to be pretty good in raids when i had time. I played Vanguard as a Rogue which was hell to level up solo. I did have the raid Gryphon and complete Sillius stealth gear from APW. And i could craft a Galleon.

But it seems i lost my tough. Maybe i am getting old or to tired and i have to little time to keep up i guess.

Magdalina

@Knootewoot - dual-wield/bow NB are actually pretty damn OP right now. I'm not an NB but your setup doesn't sound all that bad. I got so carried through by bow NB on my first CoA run a couple weeks ago xD If you're getting kicked from groups on invite...well that's odd. Either people don't know what they're doing or dunno. Do you have enough health? Only really viable reason I see to kick a player without giving him a chance is <2k health at vet 14, that's just a no-go at vet dungeons.

Either way, I hope you're able to find a...friendlier group and get things done:)

wafcatb14_ESO

You can play the way you want , doesn`t mean you won`t gimp your character, or that you`ll get a group or a spot on that trial run etc. Best way to assure that is to do runs with guild members rather than pugs .

Knootewoot

Magdalina wrote: »

@Knootewoot - dual-wield/bow NB are actually pretty damn OP right now. I'm not an NB but your setup doesn't sound all that bad. I got so carried through by bow NB on my first CoA run a couple weeks ago xD If you're getting kicked from groups on invite...well that's odd. Either people don't know what they're doing or dunno. Do you have enough health? Only really viable reason I see to kick a player without giving him a chance is <2k health at vet 14, that's just a no-go at vet dungeons.

Either way, I hope you're able to find a...friendlier group and get things done:)

Thanks

Well these are my stats. I don't want to install DPS meter so i don't know what i DPS. I have bad memories about DPS meters in the past.

This are my bow stats:



And DW-dagger stats



In PvP so i might have some extra buffs. I also ate food with 385 to all 3 stats.

bugmom

Rune_Relic wrote: »

…Many of the vocals on here are MMO vets....who seem to forget many of the payers on here are TES soloists.

Those TES players need time to learn new skills and adapt.
Those MMO players need to understand their playerbase.

ZOS needs to embrace both and encourage both and allow/help them to mix.

TES say to mmo lot.... derrr TES
MMO say ot TES lot... derrr MMO

Its a hybrid. TES-MMO. Embrace it and help each other.

I also think that many (not all) of the MMO pros in this game forget/disrespect newbies. Part of the beauty of ESO is that it has brought a lot of people into this type of game who are totally new to MMO. I think this is a good thing for the future of MMO's and gaming in general. More players means more income to ZOS and hopefully that translates into more improvements to the game. You can't do that by just focusing on a small select segment of gaming pros - a strong future for ESO needs to include newbies.

Like me! ESO has opened a whole world of gaming possibilities to me. Four months ago I had NEVER played anything like this in my entire life - except Skyrim. Now I have a whole stable of characters from low level to Vet. And I'm having the time of my life. I'm also disabled and have had to work very hard to find ways to make the game playable for me.

However it takes time to learn and many learn by doing. I'm very fortunate to have found guild mates who are willing to coach and support me and we've had a few laughs over some bonehead mistakes.

However, I frequently encounter an attitude of disdain from people who have been doing this stuff since they were toddlers. I don't expect those people to be forced to change their play style. They know what they are doing, they are good at it and I would never expect them to include my silly, heavy armor wearing, dual wielding sorcerer on their record setting time trial team. I have FUN playing her with all her flaws. All I ask is a little in game courtesy and respect for where I am on the learning curve.

And maybe a little, polite, helpful coaching once in a while.

Potenza

Aeratus wrote: »

Excluded for wearing heavy armor?

Easy solution: Just wear a costume that looks like light/medium armor. Problem solved.

This! Just lie! No one can actually check you anyway. There is no method of viewing other players builds.

Kraven

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Excluded for wearing heavy armor?

Easy solution: Just wear a costume that looks like light/medium armor. Problem solved.

This! Just lie! No one can actually check you anyway. There is no method of viewing other players builds.

Do this, then when the boss doesn't die because the dps check isn't met just blame it on another person until you finally get a group to carry your slackness through.

This mentality is exactly why we should be able to check. 8 people doing the absolute best they possibly can pushing themselves and trying to improve. An entire group attempting beyond all reason to actual rise to the challenge but they're just shy of accomplishing their goal because 2 people feel they deserve special treatment and blame failing on the other people in the group.

Kraven

bugmom wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

…Many of the vocals on here are MMO vets....who seem to forget many of the payers on here are TES soloists.

Those TES players need time to learn new skills and adapt.
Those MMO players need to understand their playerbase.

ZOS needs to embrace both and encourage both and allow/help them to mix.

TES say to mmo lot.... derrr TES
MMO say ot TES lot... derrr MMO

Its a hybrid. TES-MMO. Embrace it and help each other.

I also think that many (not all) of the MMO pros in this game forget/disrespect newbies. Part of the beauty of ESO is that it has brought a lot of people into this type of game who are totally new to MMO. I think this is a good thing for the future of MMO's and gaming in general. More players means more income to ZOS and hopefully that translates into more improvements to the game. You can't do that by just focusing on a small select segment of gaming pros - a strong future for ESO needs to include newbies.

Like me! ESO has opened a whole world of gaming possibilities to me. Four months ago I had NEVER played anything like this in my entire life - except Skyrim. Now I have a whole stable of characters from low level to Vet. And I'm having the time of my life. I'm also disabled and have had to work very hard to find ways to make the game playable for me.

However it takes time to learn and many learn by doing. I'm very fortunate to have found guild mates who are willing to coach and support me and we've had a few laughs over some bonehead mistakes.

However, I frequently encounter an attitude of disdain from people who have been doing this stuff since they were toddlers. I don't expect those people to be forced to change their play style. They know what they are doing, they are good at it and I would never expect them to include my silly, heavy armor wearing, dual wielding sorcerer on their record setting time trial team. I have FUN playing her with all her flaws. All I ask is a little in game courtesy and respect for where I am on the learning curve.

And maybe a little, polite, helpful coaching once in a while.

Each guild I'm in is always willing to help new players with advice or just basic knowledge learned along the way. It's kind of a requirement I have for the guilds I'm in. On several occasions my friends and I have all been asked for anything from general information, armor set ideas, quest help and yes build sound boarding. There are players now doing vet DSA and trials because they were willing to adjust themselves to mechanics. My own wife catches disdain from pugs because she is a NB healer, but she's healed every vet dungeon.

For example certain fights whether we like it or not, absolutely require ranged fighting. Certain fights require that your dps in the group is pushing at least 600 dps each.

Now if instead of players rising to meet the challenge of the content those dps checks were brought down so that you could meet them using heavy armor S&B then actual DPS are going to melt that same fight in a fraction of the time. If both S&B and real dps builds do the exact same damage what's the point in rocking anything other than s&b?

Every single game has rules and requirements. You don't go on a soccer field to hit a touchdown with a baseball bat just because you want to "play the way you want". ESO the rules are simple.

Group rules:
1.Pick a role. The trinity exists. Tank, Heal, or Dps.
2. Perform that role that you chose.
3. Meet the minimum requirements of checks placed in game.
4. Move your feet! Adapt. Adjust. Overcome. Grow.

Solo rules:
1. Do whatever, no one cares.

The big thing is, I don't care how you meet the DPS checks as long as you meet them and the target dies. I don't care how you tank as long as you're effective at it. And I don't care how you heal as long as heals are going out.

Shunravi

Kraven wrote: »

bugmom wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

…Many of the vocals on here are MMO vets....who seem to forget many of the payers on here are TES soloists.

Those TES players need time to learn new skills and adapt.
Those MMO players need to understand their playerbase.

ZOS needs to embrace both and encourage both and allow/help them to mix.

TES say to mmo lot.... derrr TES
MMO say ot TES lot... derrr MMO

Its a hybrid. TES-MMO. Embrace it and help each other.

I also think that many (not all) of the MMO pros in this game forget/disrespect newbies. Part of the beauty of ESO is that it has brought a lot of people into this type of game who are totally new to MMO. I think this is a good thing for the future of MMO's and gaming in general. More players means more income to ZOS and hopefully that translates into more improvements to the game. You can't do that by just focusing on a small select segment of gaming pros - a strong future for ESO needs to include newbies.

Like me! ESO has opened a whole world of gaming possibilities to me. Four months ago I had NEVER played anything like this in my entire life - except Skyrim. Now I have a whole stable of characters from low level to Vet. And I'm having the time of my life. I'm also disabled and have had to work very hard to find ways to make the game playable for me.

However it takes time to learn and many learn by doing. I'm very fortunate to have found guild mates who are willing to coach and support me and we've had a few laughs over some bonehead mistakes.

However, I frequently encounter an attitude of disdain from people who have been doing this stuff since they were toddlers. I don't expect those people to be forced to change their play style. They know what they are doing, they are good at it and I would never expect them to include my silly, heavy armor wearing, dual wielding sorcerer on their record setting time trial team. I have FUN playing her with all her flaws. All I ask is a little in game courtesy and respect for where I am on the learning curve.

And maybe a little, polite, helpful coaching once in a while.

Each guild I'm in is always willing to help new players with advice or just basic knowledge learned along the way. It's kind of a requirement I have for the guilds I'm in. On several occasions my friends and I have all been asked for anything from general information, armor set ideas, quest help and yes build sound boarding. There are players now doing vet DSA and trials because they were willing to adjust themselves to mechanics. My own wife catches disdain from pugs because she is a NB healer, but she's healed every vet dungeon.

For example certain fights whether we like it or not, absolutely require ranged fighting. Certain fights require that your dps in the group is pushing at least 600 dps each.

Now if instead of players rising to meet the challenge of the content those dps checks were brought down so that you could meet them using heavy armor S&B then actual DPS are going to melt that same fight in a fraction of the time. If both S&B and real dps builds do the exact same damage what's the point in rocking anything other than s&b?

Every single game has rules and requirements. You don't go on a soccer field to hit a touchdown with a baseball bat just because you want to "play the way you want". ESO the rules are simple.

Group rules:
1.Pick a role. The trinity exists. Tank, Heal, or Dps.
2. Perform that role that you chose.
3. Meet the minimum requirements of checks placed in game.
4. Move your feet! Adapt. Adjust. Overcome. Grow.

Solo rules:
1. Do whatever, no one cares.

The big thing is, I don't care how you meet the DPS checks as long as you meet them and the target dies. I don't care how you tank as long as you're effective at it. And I don't care how you heal as long as heals are going out.

Well said. I agree.

xaraan

"I want to play a naked character using no weapons and only undaunted skills, why can't I be as powerful as everyone else? What happened to play how you want zos!?!"

Play as you want doesn't mean crappy builds will magically become good. That phrase has been abused by players since the beginning. There are plenty of options available for builds that you couldn't pull off in other mmo's.

LoreScholar

bugmom wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

…Many of the vocals on here are MMO vets....who seem to forget many of the payers on here are TES soloists.

Those TES players need time to learn new skills and adapt.
Those MMO players need to understand their playerbase.

ZOS needs to embrace both and encourage both and allow/help them to mix.

TES say to mmo lot.... derrr TES
MMO say ot TES lot... derrr MMO

Its a hybrid. TES-MMO. Embrace it and help each other.

I also think that many (not all) of the MMO pros in this game forget/disrespect newbies. Part of the beauty of ESO is that it has brought a lot of people into this type of game who are totally new to MMO. I think this is a good thing for the future of MMO's and gaming in general. More players means more income to ZOS and hopefully that translates into more improvements to the game. You can't do that by just focusing on a small select segment of gaming pros - a strong future for ESO needs to include newbies.

Like me! ESO has opened a whole world of gaming possibilities to me. Four months ago I had NEVER played anything like this in my entire life - except Skyrim. Now I have a whole stable of characters from low level to Vet. And I'm having the time of my life. I'm also disabled and have had to work very hard to find ways to make the game playable for me.

However it takes time to learn and many learn by doing. I'm very fortunate to have found guild mates who are willing to coach and support me and we've had a few laughs over some bonehead mistakes.

However, I frequently encounter an attitude of disdain from people who have been doing this stuff since they were toddlers. I don't expect those people to be forced to change their play style. They know what they are doing, they are good at it and I would never expect them to include my silly, heavy armor wearing, dual wielding sorcerer on their record setting time trial team. I have FUN playing her with all her flaws. All I ask is a little in game courtesy and respect for where I am on the learning curve.

And maybe a little, polite, helpful coaching once in a while.

I couldn't agree more!

Mandragora

Well if there would be a hireling lets say in mage /fighter guilds - you wouldnt have problem with 3 tanks - you could just wave goodbye to them and march to a guild, pick up a nice mage lady there and rock on ;-)

schroed360

lordrichter wrote: »

mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

in dungeon and dragons online mmo, they allow anyone to purchase hirelings to help you through the dungeons. so anyone can play solo if they wish it.
i wish elderscrolls online did the same, would be awesome!
i prefer solo play with hirelings instead of group.

@dwemer_paleologist‌ - Please don't take offense as I certainly don't intend any - but why exactly do you play MMOs if you do not like playing with other people? There are a ton of great solo RPGs out there (especially TES games).

For my part in this, it is not that I don't want to play in groups. It is that I don't want to group with quite a few of the people who have commented in this thread. They don't want to group with me, either. I don't care how OP my character and play is, I simply don't want to play with them. Been there, done that, have the achievement. In another game. Since the box of chocolates applies here, I have decided to simply abstain and play solo until ZOS comes up with a way to filter out certain archetypical players.

I have a DK heavy two handed that none of you want to play with. It is a DK heavy two handed because that is what I wanted to play. It is built in a manner that allows me to keep PVE attackers off of me until I kill them, so it has some tank and some DPS. It does not do either role purely enough to meet with the approval of the critics. I don't use numbers but I do watch what is happening and make changes to eliminate areas where the character is under performing... based on the ability to keep them off of me until I kill them. My skill line choices and slotted skills are built around that and I am certain that no one cares what the specifics are.

I also have a NB dual wield medium that none of you want to play with. This guy is not a soldier and does not do well when ganged up on. He under performs on a lot of quest assignments where he is expected to wade in and tank.or CC in numbers. For example, the "protect me from three waves of attackers" quests. He is DPS but is not elite and he has survivability issues. He goes through 10x more healing potions than any other character I have and, as currently configured, is the poster boy for reducing the potion cool down. There are skill choices that I have not taken with this character that could improve his What I want from ZOS is a way to filter out the elites so that I don't have to play with them and what the elites want is a way to filter out the people like me who are going to be wasting their time. DPS is not a measure because I may actually have DPS build that is acceptable to them. The mindset about how I play is far more important than the DPS or the acceptable nature of my build.

lordrichter wrote: »

mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

in dungeon and dragons online mmo, they allow anyone to purchase hirelings to help you through the dungeons. so anyone can play solo if they wish it.
i wish elderscrolls online did the same, would be awesome!
i prefer solo play with hirelings instead of group.

@dwemer_paleologist‌ - Please don't take offense as I certainly don't intend any - but why exactly do you play MMOs if you do not like playing with other people? There are a ton of great solo RPGs out there (especially TES games).

For my part in this, it is not that I don't want to play in groups. It is that I don't want to group with quite a few of the people who have commented in this thread. They don't want to group with me, either. I don't care how OP my character and play is, I simply don't want to play with them. Been there, done that, have the achievement. In another game. Since the box of chocolates applies here, I have decided to simply abstain and play solo until ZOS comes up with a way to filter out certain archetypical players.

I have a DK heavy two handed that none of you want to play with. It is a DK heavy two handed because that is what I wanted to play. It is built in a manner that allows me to keep PVE attackers off of me until I kill them, so it has some tank and some DPS. It does not do either role purely enough to meet with the approval of the critics. I don't use numbers but I do watch what is happening and make changes to eliminate areas where the character is under performing... based on the ability to keep them off of me until I kill them. My skill line choices and slotted skills are built around that and I am certain that no one cares what the specifics are.

I also have a NB dual wield medium that none of you want to play with. This guy is not a soldier and does not do well when ganged up on. He under performs on a lot of quest assignments where he is expected to wade in and tank.or CC in numbers. For example, the "protect me from three waves of attackers" quests. He is DPS but is not elite and he has survivability issues. He goes through 10x more healing potions than any other character I have and, as currently configured, is the poster boy for reducing the potion cool down. There are skill choices that I have not taken with this character that could improve his performance, but there are reason why those choices were not taken.

But, I have a Sorc destruction light that you people would have probably been thrilled to play with, provided I unslot the pet that tanks for me. This guy is outfitted with restoration as a strong second and can do both DPS and Heal, although Healing is still in need of development. This is the more elite build glass cannon that had been so overwhelmingly popular around here a couple months back. I cheated with this one, he wore a heavy belt to bring Armor up a little at lower levels. Today, he is exceptionally skilled at dying when alone but is OK if the foe can be dispatched quickly. The change they made to pet/summoned threat really hurt this one and the character is on the shelf while I decide if I want to keep him.

Because I use no numbers other than what is on the character screen, all of these characters are "tuned" based on how they perform in the PVE field and not on any theoretical calculations based on expectations built around numbers.

Will this get me to "max DPS"? Probably not. I might get there by accident, or by process of elimination, but once the character is able to win in PVE combat, I tend to stop tuning. I can see what the blockers are to success so I know where to put my attention, but once the blockers are eliminated, I stop looking to change things.

So, no, I don't want to group with a lot of you, and the reverse is equally true. What I want from ZOS is a way to filter out the elites so that I don't have to play with them and what the elites want is a way to filter out the people like me who are going to be wasting their time. DPS is not a measure because I may actually have DPS build that is acceptable to them. The mindset about how I play is far more important than the DPS or the acceptable nature of my build.

You don t need any tool from zos .Just use your keyboard and write Lf casual wiping session in vet dungeon.Irony aside just use the word"casual, slow progression,first run ...etc and you won t have any of the poeple you don t want to group with that will bother answering you.

Potenza

Kraven wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Excluded for wearing heavy armor?

Easy solution: Just wear a costume that looks like light/medium armor. Problem solved.

This! Just lie! No one can actually check you anyway. There is no method of viewing other players builds.

Do this, then when the boss doesn't die because the dps check isn't met just blame it on another person until you finally get a group to carry your slackness through.

This mentality is exactly why we should be able to check. 8 people doing the absolute best they possibly can pushing themselves and trying to improve. An entire group attempting beyond all reason to actual rise to the challenge but they're just shy of accomplishing their goal because 2 people feel they deserve special treatment and blame failing on the other people in the group.

This is precisely my point. I have brought it up in other threads - we need to be able to check other players builds in game so anyone can check that each player is properly equipped for a certain task. In another mmo I know of all you need to do is right click any other player to show their character sheet and stats.

spryler

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Kraven wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Excluded for wearing heavy armor?

Easy solution: Just wear a costume that looks like light/medium armor. Problem solved.

This! Just lie! No one can actually check you anyway. There is no method of viewing other players builds.

Do this, then when the boss doesn't die because the dps check isn't met just blame it on another person until you finally get a group to carry your slackness through.

This mentality is exactly why we should be able to check. 8 people doing the absolute best they possibly can pushing themselves and trying to improve. An entire group attempting beyond all reason to actual rise to the challenge but they're just shy of accomplishing their goal because 2 people feel they deserve special treatment and blame failing on the other people in the group.

This is precisely my point. I have brought it up in other threads - we need to be able to check other players builds in game so anyone can check that each player is properly equipped for a certain task. In another mmo I know of all you need to do is right click any other player to show their character sheet and stats.

I completely understand the advantages to "inspecting" other characters, but the trade-off is not worth it in my opinion. Sure a few bad apples get into your groups occasionally, but that is way better than if everyone inspecting everyone else before every dungeon, quest, trial.....etc. It turns into a nightmare of elitism, criticism and intolerance.

Darkrogue671

Tonturri wrote: »

There's being excluded because your build, no matter how well built is it, isn't good enough, and then there's being excluded because your build is terrible and you have no idea what you're doing.

Thus, you can't play the game the way you want. There are solutions to this but it requires game producers to get ingenious and make something different. TESO had a few good ideas, but overall you end up with a few cookie-cutter builds you find in all MMORPGs. Great build = great gaming experience. Bad build = bad gaming experience and a loss of a customer. Until they figure out how to get rid of the cookie cutter builds, this will not go away.

The sad part is that TES has already solved this problem and if TESO was a little more tied to its roots, that problem would be solved. I have a few ideas of my own, but the bigwigs should already be on top of fixing... SHOULD. We'll see!

Alphashado

There will always be cookie cutter top builds in an MMO. it's impossible to avoid. Any time that you have various gear/stats/items to choose from, you will have number crunchers crunching the numbers. There will always be an optimal combination of gear/stats/items. And as soon as one of those gear/stats/items is changed/nerfed/buffed, then by default. another gear/stat/item combo will take its place.

If content is adjusted to facilitate anything less than the above mentioned combos, than everyone still using the above mentioned combos will cry because it's too easy.

It is an absolutely unavoidable cycle unless we were all robots with the exact same gear/stats/items.

In regards to play as you want. this term has been taken way too literally. Take the German Autobahn for example. "Drive as fast as you want! No speed limit, no restrictions!. Total freedom on the highway!" - Yet there will always be a faster car than the one you are driving. If you choose to drive a V.W Bug down the Autobahn, then don't complain when someone passes you in a Ferrari.

All they can do is make adjustments as they go, but it is an unavoidable, never ending cycle of Nerfs and Buffs. It's an MMO. Nature of the beast.

Rune_Relic

Alphashado wrote: »

There will always be cookie cutter top builds in an MMO. it's impossible to avoid. Any time that you have various gear/stats/items to choose from, you will have number crunchers crunching the numbers. There will always be an optimal combination of gear/stats/items. And as soon as one of those gear/stats/items is changed/nerfed/buffed, then by default. another gear/stat/item combo will take its place.

If content is adjusted to facilitate anything less than the above mentioned combos, than everyone still using the above mentioned combos will cry because it's too easy.

It is an absolutely unavoidable cycle unless we were all robots with the exact same gear/stats/items.

In regards to play as you want. this term has been taken way too literally. Take the German Autobahn for example. "Drive as fast as you want! No speed limit, no restrictions!. Total freedom on the highway!" - Yet there will always be a faster car than the one you are driving. If you choose to drive a V.W Bug down the Autobahn, then don't complain when someone passes you in a Ferrari.

All they can do is make adjustments as they go, but it is an unavoidable, never ending cycle of Nerfs and Buffs. It's an MMO. Nature of the beast.

Cookie cutter build = Unbalanced game.
Its as simple as that.
Balance the equation for everyone and there is no cookie cutters = play as you like.
Its not rocket science ...but it does actually require effort.

Xjcon

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

There will always be cookie cutter top builds in an MMO. it's impossible to avoid. Any time that you have various gear/stats/items to choose from, you will have number crunchers crunching the numbers. There will always be an optimal combination of gear/stats/items. And as soon as one of those gear/stats/items is changed/nerfed/buffed, then by default. another gear/stat/item combo will take its place.

If content is adjusted to facilitate anything less than the above mentioned combos, than everyone still using the above mentioned combos will cry because it's too easy.

It is an absolutely unavoidable cycle unless we were all robots with the exact same gear/stats/items.

In regards to play as you want. this term has been taken way too literally. Take the German Autobahn for example. "Drive as fast as you want! No speed limit, no restrictions!. Total freedom on the highway!" - Yet there will always be a faster car than the one you are driving. If you choose to drive a V.W Bug down the Autobahn, then don't complain when someone passes you in a Ferrari.

All they can do is make adjustments as they go, but it is an unavoidable, never ending cycle of Nerfs and Buffs. It's an MMO. Nature of the beast.

Cookie cutter build = Unbalanced game.
Its as simple as that.
Balance the equation for everyone and there is no cookie cutters = play as you like.
Its not rocket science ...but it does actually require effort.

If it was as easy as you say all mmo's would be balanced............

Epsilon_Echo

Lucas.interlichnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Some trial groups will not accept a single Tank in their groups "Having two heavy armor players would be bad " they say...

No.

no.

Nobody says that.

Alphashado

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

There will always be cookie cutter top builds in an MMO. it's impossible to avoid. Any time that you have various gear/stats/items to choose from, you will have number crunchers crunching the numbers. There will always be an optimal combination of gear/stats/items. And as soon as one of those gear/stats/items is changed/nerfed/buffed, then by default. another gear/stat/item combo will take its place.

If content is adjusted to facilitate anything less than the above mentioned combos, than everyone still using the above mentioned combos will cry because it's too easy.

It is an absolutely unavoidable cycle unless we were all robots with the exact same gear/stats/items.

In regards to play as you want. this term has been taken way too literally. Take the German Autobahn for example. "Drive as fast as you want! No speed limit, no restrictions!. Total freedom on the highway!" - Yet there will always be a faster car than the one you are driving. If you choose to drive a V.W Bug down the Autobahn, then don't complain when someone passes you in a Ferrari.

All they can do is make adjustments as they go, but it is an unavoidable, never ending cycle of Nerfs and Buffs. It's an MMO. Nature of the beast.

Cookie cutter build = Unbalanced game.
Its as simple as that.
Balance the equation for everyone and there is no cookie cutters = play as you like.
Its not rocket science ...but it does actually require effort.

You highlighted the very reason you are wrong. Maybe this is your first MMO. In that case, I understand your perceptions.