Crypt of Hearts Veteran Pledge - some bosses are too powerful & too many adds

Robocles

Despair9 wrote: »

If I understand correctly you are leaving, because you were unable to complete a veteran dungeon. Which is not aimed at normal players?

To get back on topic, I don't think veteran pledges are too hard.

I've played plenty of other MMOs. Heroic / Veteran (call them what you like) dungeons there are really easy. So easy you don't even have to use your brain.

You are frustrated only because you can't faceroll dungeons like in pretty much every other MMO out there.

Wow... you can't read, can you?

He didn't say he was leaving because he couldn't finish a Vet dungeon. He made a fairly specific complaint about the way the adds spawn and the broken damage scaling.

yodased

http://www.dungeondwellersguild.com/elder-scrolls-online/veteran-dungeons/crypt-of-hearts-veteran/

/thread

Surfinginhawaii

Magdalina wrote: »

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

My build as a Sorc:
Magicka 25
Health 35
Stamina 2

HP: 2051 unbuffed -> 2519 buffed
Magicka: 2365 unbuffed -> 2581 buffed and also soft capped
Magicka Regen: 161
Spell Resist: 2269 also soft capped

VR5 Blue or Purple food - depending on what I am supposed to do.

Wearing 5 X Purple Seducer and 4X Mara Set (incl. Staff swap)
Infused, Divine + purple glyph enhancements...

Spell Crit : 30 % - 36 % depening which staff I use.

All my dmg enhancing and dmg dealing spells are maxed and morphed.
Also those of the Mage Guild, and also those of Warrior guild for exra dmg on daedra and undead.

One bar is for healing and staying alive...
The other bar is for damage and debuffing...

AoE didn't do anything to the spider addes btw.
We herded them together. AoEs did not do any dmg. We had to nuke them one by one, that was the only damage they acknowledged.
AoEs, maxed out... even with spell enhancer pots and spells... did nothing at all.
The only spell that really did some dmg was Crystal Fragments and Crushing Shock. Everything else dmg-wise from the sorc line was useless.

I'm using Seducer myself since I'm not a fan of spell symmetry. Seducer, a few spare Healer pcs and Pact's 3 pcs +10% crit set. I just spam Crushing Shock bffed by Crit surge usually, with Elemental ring for aoe and Endless fry for execute. Also, Evil Hunter does wonders in COH(morph of Epert hunter in Fighters' guild skilltree).

My stats are about the same except crit being 54%.

The damage I can do with this build is not anything amazing, but it's enough for any fight in the game, including COA hardmode.

I'd say you might want a bit more crit but it's not a dps problem likely, really. It's group coordination. I can see how COH can be frustrated, but it was hardest dungeon pre-1.5, but now it's actually kinda easy compared to buffed vet ones. It's my favourite dungeon, and I enjoy its mechanics;)

Don't run with PUGs. Get a group of friends/guildies together that know the place/are capable of learning. Get on Teamspeak if possible, it makes Spider boss a lot easier. Have tank tank her turned to the wall on the right from entrance, everyone else spread out around the room. Watch out for the aoe, when you get it, move FAST, lead it around the room. She cannot web more than one person at a time(although I did encounter a visual bug which made it appear so - unwebbed person still looked webbed), just call the coocoon out in TS/chat and free the person fast(and don't lead the aoe to them). Ads are fine but annoying, ulti them. Banner, Veil, Nova, Atonach, all work. When I have trouble with this fight, I use Negate for ads so we can safely burn them down. They're ads, don't burn them one by one, stack and aoe/ulti them.

That said, it's possible she bugged out on you, though she never did on me. Best I had was not loading(yes still deadly) aoe. If you were NA EP, I'd gladly run with you=/

Also, when people say vet pledges are easy, don't let them get to you:P That's showing off while having a good, extremely experienced group with TS usually.

Teargrants wrote: »

I don't even...

Yes, some dungeons have issues like unblockable bosses now, but crypt of hearts is not one of them. If anything it is one of the easier dungeons now. If your group is running out if resources and dieing because they can't add control, the problem is between keyboard and chair. Every boss fight is basically a brain dead DPS, walk out of the red circle affair in CoH.

Mage light > crit surge > evil hunter > wall of ele > impulse impulse, or crushing shock for single target, ect. There's no reason to use shards, as OP mentioned using them. Shards for DPS is just bad.

And OP, there's no reason for you as a DPS to have a heals bar, that's the job of the healer. That's not conciet, it's crucial that DPS do DPS and leave healing to heals. Otherwise you waste resources with heals and most importantly lose DPS. That's how adds pile up, hurting the group more and putting strain on heals.

There're different builds out there, actually. Cryst Frags actually give a nice boost to dps if you stack spell dmg and only use them on procs(I don't do that, but I know a lot of sorcs who do). Also, off heals bar can do wonders in certain situation, since **** happens, even to the best of us.

Just saying.

Very thorough and informative post.

Surfinginhawaii

magnusnet wrote: »

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

Content doesn't need nerf... It's you and your party need to improve.

This is my mantra .

Kraven

I still don't understand the problem. It's too hard? By whose standards? Seems selfish and self important to think the game should be brought down to your level making it boring and overly simplified for the players not having an issue with the difficulty.

CoH specifically is a mechanic heavy dungeon. Don't do the mechanic and you die, simple really. Everything is telegraphed and everything can be countered, there are multiple ways to do this dungeon. Spider boss? Tank her in the middle facing away from the group when she telegraphs the AoE the other 3 members split until it is discovered who the aoe is chasing, that person then kites the circle around the outside of the room while the other members return to the middle.

It's in no way meant to be condescending when I say "Improve yourself. Instead of asking the game to be brought down to your level, step your skill up to the challenge." There are a lot of fights where the key is working the mechanic not ignoring it. I love the scaling changes because it has made people improve their game play. There are more skilled and semi-skilled players now than before.

There are checks in place, doesn't matter what class you are using to DPS with what matters is you do enough to meet the dps checks in certain fights. If the gargoyle in spindle kills your group then you need more dps, plain and simple fact. Barring the bugged fights where block is being completely ignored, if you're getting one shotted as a tank you need better armor/health or to learn when to block and when to get the hell out of the way. If your group is sitting at 50% health for 30 seconds so you can dps with your off bar, then someone gets one shotted, perhaps they shouldn't have been sitting at 50% for so long.

If the content is scaled to a mediocre player's standard then what reason is there to be good or to improve? I'm not saying cater to the hardcore or to base content on the top 1% by any means. But as soon as you start making content boring and easy then you start losing players, so don't cater to the less than average either.


"TOO HARD" is completely and totally subjective, purely a matter of opinion. Players can improve and step up to a challenge however. If you start asking those that already meet the challenges to dumb down and play easier content you bore them and they leave.

ZOS has been catering to people who claim "It's too hard." long enough, hopefully they realize that had a lot to do with the drop in numbers and that the increased challenge of 1.5 is the reason they've gotten those numbers back up. You personally don't like a challenge? Well what makes your preference more important than mine?

Robocles

Kraven wrote: »

I still don't understand the problem. It's too hard? By whose standards? Seems selfish and self important to think the game should be brought down to your level making it boring and overly simplified for the players not having an issue with the difficulty.

CoH specifically is a mechanic heavy dungeon. Don't do the mechanic and you die, simple really. Everything is telegraphed and everything can be countered, there are multiple ways to do this dungeon. Spider boss? Tank her in the middle facing away from the group when she telegraphs the AoE the other 3 members split until it is discovered who the aoe is chasing, that person then kites the circle around the outside of the room while the other members return to the middle.

It's in no way meant to be condescending when I say "Improve yourself. Instead of asking the game to be brought down to your level, step your skill up to the challenge." There are a lot of fights where the key is working the mechanic not ignoring it. I love the scaling changes because it has made people improve their game play. There are more skilled and semi-skilled players now than before.

There are checks in place, doesn't matter what class you are using to DPS with what matters is you do enough to meet the dps checks in certain fights. If the gargoyle in spindle kills your group then you need more dps, plain and simple fact. Barring the bugged fights where block is being completely ignored, if you're getting one shotted as a tank you need better armor/health or to learn when to block and when to get the hell out of the way. If your group is sitting at 50% health for 30 seconds so you can dps with your off bar, then someone gets one shotted, perhaps they shouldn't have been sitting at 50% for so long.

If the content is scaled to a mediocre player's standard then what reason is there to be good or to improve? I'm not saying cater to the hardcore or to base content on the top 1% by any means. But as soon as you start making content boring and easy then you start losing players, so don't cater to the less than average either.


"TOO HARD" is completely and totally subjective, purely a matter of opinion. Players can improve and step up to a challenge however. If you start asking those that already meet the challenges to dumb down and play easier content you bore them and they leave.

ZOS has been catering to people who claim "It's too hard." long enough, hopefully they realize that had a lot to do with the drop in numbers and that the increased challenge of 1.5 is the reason they've gotten those numbers back up. You personally don't like a challenge? Well what makes your preference more important than mine?

While I don't necessarily agree with all of his points, the OP does state what he thinks is too hard.

I'm not sure why you have to berate him about it.

LunaRae

There will always be a fine balance between too much of a challenge and too easy. You say you have a hard time in Crypt of Hearts, but where are you having challenges? Don't say everything, gives us examples. Trash mobs? First boss? Spider boss?

I just took four PvP build players into CoH for the pledge and had an easy time. There were a few wipes due to players w/ 1700-1900HP but everyone was competent and we got through it in a decent time. Vet city of ash is infinitely more challenging than CoH to me, not sure if you've run that but you can tell the difficulty is different by the second boss.

Lots of ppl talking about TS, don't even need that if all four players have run the dungeon before and know what they're doing. But yes, voice communication can help immensely. If I got someone in my group who's never run it before I'll try to encourage TS before running. If they refuse I'll still bring them, but I'll be typing out the boss mechanics and if they still underperform I'll have to drop them.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

Beesting wrote: »

Ok dudes, i finished CoH a week ago scaled to vet 9, but the quest was bugged.
So i thought great, do it again tonight.
Five hours later i had to admit defeat
First group wiped 30 times on spider boss at scale v7, healer was v7 , group had to give up
Joined other group, 2 v4 a dps and a templar healer
Me v14 dps and a v14 tank
We wiped 4 times on the spider boss and the v14 left, then i asked a v9 friend to help, he runs multiple dungeons every day
We made it to the last boss and spent 2 hours wiping countless times.
They had to leave twice to do repairs, i had a stack of repair kits on me...

So my friend gave up after three hours, i asked another friend, he said he had spend 2 hours on the boss before the killed it. He is v14 DK

But we still could not do it, as soon ad one party member dies that is it...

So i spent 4,5 hours doing CoH vet, a daily... No thank you
I felt like at dancing class remember all the bloody steps and dodges. But what good does it do, as soon as one member died we were doomed

Just like the vet pledges, i predict...

Well, at least I am not the only one who experienced this. I feel sorry that this happens so often and also to others. Thought it was just my usual bad luck with mobs "bugging".

Did you also receive multiple webbings after the first or second wipe?
I asked those who did CoH before, and they said that the spider should not web multiple targets, unless everyone is still alive.

And also thanks to all who gave constructive advice instead of trolling. Also thanks to you Wolfenbelle! Your post made my day :)Seriously.

Truth be told. When I started this thread, I expected to be trolled by some people, but the nice advice coming from some people makes up for the dumb comments!

Some asked what level my group was. We have been all VR14. Before that I also tried with VR11... I was the lowest and so I had to go as leader, inside the dungeons. But that did not end well, because as soon as we wiped for some reason - the bosses seem to bug and go double frenzy mode.

Maybe I am cursed... whenever I am around and that group only wipes once - one of the bosses becomes broken...O_o

So, if anyone wanna team up with me and test my "curse" - I am on the EU server and play Pact faction.

The people I ran with, are experienced gamers and also pretty dedicated. They ran multiple Pledges, and even they kept wiping at that spider daedra now for some reason.

I also would not consider myself an inexperienced gamer. Playing MMORPGs since 1997... and I was masochistic enough to be a dedicated "player" in MMORPGs like EQ1 where you had to camp for days, weeks or even months for one "raid boss" in day-night shifts, in the hope to be the lucky git that could get that single rare drop for your epic weapon... I had 4 toons and all of them had their epics ;-)

But those times are over, I have grown up - I am no longer a MMORPG-masochist. I prefer to be a sadist that spends her time rather productive instead of wasting time on some bugged unbalanced "middle-boss" :-P

Aeratus

But we still could not do it, as soon ad one party member dies that is it...

I've done COH a lot, and did the no deaths achievement before 1.4 came out. I've pretty much seen it all with the COH last boss. Usually, when someone dies its because of one of the following:

1. People too lazy to dodge out of the red circles. The solution is just to dodge out of the red circles lol.

2. Tank runs out of stamina and is unable to get out of the big AOE. Solution: tanking isn't just about armor. It's about stamina. Get a tank that has glyphs of shielding.

3. Squishy dps gets hit by the big skull, and then dies thereafter from a small skull. Solution: dodge or block the big skull, or have a healer that has a fast reaction time fast enough to heal the dps.

4. During the second phase, the boss rush-charges and kills everyone. Solution: have the dps block (or block-cast) and get a healer that has good sustainability.

whsprwind

IMO Vet dungeons right now needs a bit of readjustment

With a good group they can be extremely easy, but with a PUG group it is close to impossible.

It should be doable by people who want to heal with a bow or use steel tornado for single target DPS. (Harder but should still be doable). Remove the adds timer, DPS checks, rage mechanics etc. Make the reds do more damage and emphasis more on mechanics instead of setting up a wall

For those that say its already too easy and really want a challenge, feel free to drop in DSAV. Vet dungeons should be doable by at least 90% of the players, and I don't think that's the case right now

Hortator Mopa

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

I do not know if this is just me.

But ever since that dungeon scaling and pledge system has been released, some boss mobs are simply not really doable. At least not by normal players.

Normal mode pledges are for normal players, VET are for more serious players.. So its as it should be.

Even then the gold keys are easy as long as you group with people who are able to use common sense and have a good build.

literally only sanc is hard in this game at the current time.

Ticuss

whsprwind wrote: »

IMO Vet dungeons right now needs a bit of readjustment

With a good group they can be extremely easy, but with a PUG group it is close to impossible.

It should be doable by people who want to heal with a bow or use steel tornado for single target DPS. (Harder but should still be doable). Remove the adds timer, DPS checks, rage mechanics etc. Make the reds do more damage and emphasis more on mechanics instead of setting up a wall

For those that say its already too easy and really want a challenge, feel free to drop in DSAV. Vet dungeons should be doable by at least 90% of the players, and I don't think that's the case right now

But i dont want to play DSAV, i want to play TESO. You want me to play only in arena, its kinda boring.
BTW healers with bow must suffer.

Hortator Mopa

whsprwind wrote: »

IMO Vet dungeons right now needs a bit of readjustment

With a good group they can be extremely easy, but with a PUG group it is close to impossible.

It should be doable by people who want to heal with a bow or use steel tornado for single target DPS. (Harder but should still be doable). Remove the adds timer, DPS checks, rage mechanics etc. Make the reds do more damage and emphasis more on mechanics instead of setting up a wall

For those that say its already too easy and really want a challenge, feel free to drop in DSAV. Vet dungeons should be doable by at least 90% of the players, and I don't think that's the case right now

1) hey bro funny you bring up DSAV when you and I do DSAV and I never even knew you went on the forums :P

2) I disagree, Normal mode pledges and dungeons should be the ones normal players can do and I believe the VET pledges and dungeons should be hard enough that most people cant do it. Only good players should pass them.

3) VET dungeons are super easy.. With a team that knows common sense..

4) and this one will *** people off... BUT... VET dungeons are not hard... people are just really bad and don't know how to play or refuse to learn optimal ways to play.

The game is play how you want NOT play how you want and be good. A lot of people failing here are probably rocking weird builds, not even moving out of aoes etc and then saying its to hard.

whsprwind

@Hortator Mopa‌
Hey lol

I know.....

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

2) I disagree, Normal mode pledges and dungeons should be the ones normal players can do and I believe the VET pledges and dungeons should be hard enough that most people cant do it. Only good players should pass them.

3) VET dungeons are super easy.. With a team that knows common sense..

4) and this one will *** people off... BUT... VET dungeons are not hard... people are just really bad and don't know how to play or refuse to learn optimal ways to play.

The game is play how you want NOT play how you want and be good. A lot of people failing here are probably rocking weird builds, not even moving out of aoes etc and then saying its to hard.

2) I think that's for content like DSAV.

3) I know.. but common sense is pretty rare.
Everytime I do a PUG group there's always one guy...

• Mages fury for DPS the whole time
• Steel tornado/Impale for rotation single target on boss
• Bow healer
• 2.2k HP v14 tank
• Always first to die in red

4) I agree with you buddy. I just want to get my shoulders ASAP so I need to clear pledges fast, and spend my remaining time to level my alt so i can run pledges with it lol


That said, I used to run dungeons alot pre 1.5 and even with 1 or 2 bads it would still be possible to clear if the others were competent enough. That's almost impossible now - 1 bad and you wipe over and over again until the stars align

MrGhosty

I have to say that we had two groups attempting this at all levels and that spider daedra was just bonkers, in the end we never managed it and had to quit the dungeon.

I have no issue with having really tough bosses, the other bosses we faced were a real challenge but we managed just fine. Up to that point we were all having a really good time so something still isn't right with the balancing.

To those who have the smart remarks and witty retorts, I've paid the same price for the game as you did. Everyone has paid that same price, so we're all entitled to speak up when something doesn't feel quite right. I wouldn't want to walk over the bosses, I'm game for a challenge even one that requires me to try new strats but something that bottoms you out after an hour+ does not a good game make. That, to me, is bad design and bears looking into. These dungeons have stories and content that should not be placed behind a wall just to appease those players who have "optimal" builds and high end strats. An outside program such as TS should not be required in order to make something work, if you're going outside of the game then clearly something isn't balanced quite right.

Jacques Berge

MrGhosty wrote: »

I have to say that we had two groups attempting this at all levels and that spider daedra was just bonkers, in the end we never managed it and had to quit the dungeon.

I have no issue with having really tough bosses, the other bosses we faced were a real challenge but we managed just fine. Up to that point we were all having a really good time so something still isn't right with the balancing.

To those who have the smart remarks and witty retorts, I've paid the same price for the game as you did. Everyone has paid that same price, so we're all entitled to speak up when something doesn't feel quite right. I wouldn't want to walk over the bosses, I'm game for a challenge even one that requires me to try new strats but something that bottoms you out after an hour+ does not a good game make. That, to me, is bad design and bears looking into. These dungeons have stories and content that should not be placed behind a wall just to appease those players who have "optimal" builds and high end strats. An outside program such as TS should not be required in order to make something work, if you're going outside of the game then clearly something isn't balanced quite right.

You may have paid the same monetary amount, that much is probably true. But if you aren't getting past the spider boss then no, you have not paid the same as me, or the other people who don't have issues with the boss. We have invested large portions of time to the game to achieve the success we (the hardcore players) are enjoying. Cry me a river that you and 3 strangers can't hack it. Ugh

Hortator Mopa

Jacques Berge wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

I have to say that we had two groups attempting this at all levels and that spider daedra was just bonkers, in the end we never managed it and had to quit the dungeon.

I have no issue with having really tough bosses, the other bosses we faced were a real challenge but we managed just fine. Up to that point we were all having a really good time so something still isn't right with the balancing.

To those who have the smart remarks and witty retorts, I've paid the same price for the game as you did. Everyone has paid that same price, so we're all entitled to speak up when something doesn't feel quite right. I wouldn't want to walk over the bosses, I'm game for a challenge even one that requires me to try new strats but something that bottoms you out after an hour+ does not a good game make. That, to me, is bad design and bears looking into. These dungeons have stories and content that should not be placed behind a wall just to appease those players who have "optimal" builds and high end strats. An outside program such as TS should not be required in order to make something work, if you're going outside of the game then clearly something isn't balanced quite right.

You may have paid the same monetary amount, that much is probably true. But if you aren't getting past the spider boss then no, you have not paid the same as me, or the other people who don't have issues with the boss. We have invested large portions of time to the game to achieve the success we (the hardcore players) are enjoying. Cry me a river that you and 3 strangers can't hack it. Ugh

They dont take too much skill, gear or a outside program such as TSS or Skype. Pledge related vet dungeons are so easy even for gold key..

Pro tip: don't pug...

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Beesting

The truth is, the elite players in this post saying it is all easy wiped over and over again when the vet CoH dungeon came out and they did not know the mechanics themselves...
After my second attempt at the dungeon, the first attempt beating it with a pug, and the second attempt spending 5 hours in it like in a dancing class, remembering all the timings for when to dodge what and where, i can see how people that have time to burn and probably did it a 100 times in the first week, say it is easy.
Well done guys, for sticking it out... It would just be nice if you would throw in a comment like " o yeah i remember wiping on my second attempt haha" instead of pretending you were born OP...

Beesting

Nevermind

Magdalina

Beesting wrote: »

The truth is, the elite players in this post saying it is all easy wiped over and over again when the vet CoH dungeon came out and they did not know the mechanics themselves...
After my second attempt at the dungeon, the first attempt beating it with a pug, and the second attempt spending 5 hours in it like in a dancing class, remembering all the timings for when to dodge what and where, i can see how people that have time to burn and probably did it a 100 times in the first week, say it is easy.
Well done guys, for sticking it out... It would just be nice if you would throw in a comment like " o yeah i remember wiping on my second attempt haha" instead of pretending you were born OP...

You do have a point - I've run COH waaaaaaaay over 100 times by now and NOW it's so easy I could probably do it with closed eyes, but my first run I spent over 3-4 hours there xD And we did have someone to explain the strat to us.

But the boss OP is complaining about is actually one of the easier bosses in there imo=x First time we did it we didn't even have 1 death on her(but we did have like 20 wipes on fire colossus boss). If his group was having that many troubles on her after looking up mechanics and all, his group needs better coordination or possibly higher dps/better heals/tanking. If they're having troubles there, they're gonna have way more on colossus and last boss. I can understand being frustrated - I remember wiping for like 30 times on Nerien'eth on my first run(hope this makes you happy ) but overall COH made me and my team much better players. Made us more aware of situation, able to pay more attention, able to avoid damage AND keep dps'ing/healing/tanking. So it makes me really sad when people start screaming COH needs a nerf. Please, no.

pppontus

MrGhosty wrote: »

To those who have the smart remarks and witty retorts, I've paid the same price for the game as you did. Everyone has paid that same price, so we're all entitled to speak up when something doesn't feel quite right.

And if they nerf it you took the content away from better players. Because we won't be doing it anymore > get bored > unsubscribe.

Why does everyone feel entitled to complete everything just because they paid for it? You have normal dungeons, do them until you are a good enough player for vet dungeons. Or get a team together and wipe until you learn.

Because that's what all good players once did.

Sublime

A tip that helped me, do not at first try to kill the boss but try to completely understand it's mechanics. Once you know how it works you can basically do it blind, because you are able to "foretell the future". Once got that, move accordingly before the red circle even appears, or prepare for incoming challenges (I have specific skill sets for certain encounters). In the end just walk the path and do your stuff alongside.

Some need more training some less, don't get fustrated if you fail at first, others would die for a challenge you already have one, so enjoy it.

pppontus

Spider Daedra boss:

Spawns in the circle at the center of the room. Each player grabs one corner of the circle (one person per pillar basically) and starts hitting the boss.

Lightning Storm: move out and run circles around the room until lightning disappears and you can retake your position.

Web: Closest player (that does not have lightning!) unwebs.

Adds: Everyone stacks very quickly in the middle, drop an ultimate (veil of blades, charged atro, standard or nova) and AoE them down quickly. As soon as they are dead move fast to your original positions as lightning will come.

Rinse and repeat. With this strategy we haven't had a single death on the spider daedra in a very long time. Properly executed it is the easiest boss in CoH but it is mechanic heavy and if you screw up you will probably wipe

TehMagnus

pppontus wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

To those who have the smart remarks and witty retorts, I've paid the same price for the game as you did. Everyone has paid that same price, so we're all entitled to speak up when something doesn't feel quite right.

And if they nerf it you took the content away from better players. Because we won't be doing it anymore > get bored > unsubscribe.

Why does everyone feel entitled to complete everything just because they paid for it? You have normal dungeons, do them until you are a good enough player for vet dungeons. Or get a team together and wipe until you learn.

Because that's what all good players once did.

This.

Cuyler

magnusnet wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

To those who have the smart remarks and witty retorts, I've paid the same price for the game as you did. Everyone has paid that same price, so we're all entitled to speak up when something doesn't feel quite right.

And if they nerf it you took the content away from better players. Because we won't be doing it anymore > get bored > unsubscribe.

Why does everyone feel entitled to complete everything just because they paid for it? You have normal dungeons, do them until you are a good enough player for vet dungeons. Or get a team together and wipe until you learn.

Because that's what all good players once did.

This.

This could probably be limited down to....
..."get a team together and wipe until you learn."

IMO normal dungeons don't prepare players for vet dungeons. Get a humble group of players with at least one person who knows what they are doing and has completed it before to walk you through them. Eventually you'll learn it and be able to pass the knowledge on to your own pug groups.

Kraven

Kraven wrote: »
I still don't understand the problem. It's too hard? By whose standards? Seems selfish and self important to think the game should be brought down to your level making it boring and overly simplified for the players not having an issue with the difficulty.

CoH specifically is a mechanic heavy dungeon. Don't do the mechanic and you die, simple really. Everything is telegraphed and everything can be countered, there are multiple ways to do this dungeon. Spider boss? Tank her in the middle facing away from the group when she telegraphs the AoE the other 3 members split until it is discovered who the aoe is chasing, that person then kites the circle around the outside of the room while the other members return to the middle.

It's in no way meant to be condescending when I say "Improve yourself. Instead of asking the game to be brought down to your level, step your skill up to the challenge." There are a lot of fights where the key is working the mechanic not ignoring it. I love the scaling changes because it has made people improve their game play. There are more skilled and semi-skilled players now than before.

There are checks in place, doesn't matter what class you are using to DPS with what matters is you do enough to meet the dps checks in certain fights. If the gargoyle in spindle kills your group then you need more dps, plain and simple fact. Barring the bugged fights where block is being completely ignored, if you're getting one shotted as a tank you need better armor/health or to learn when to block and when to get the hell out of the way. If your group is sitting at 50% health for 30 seconds so you can dps with your off bar, then someone gets one shotted, perhaps they shouldn't have been sitting at 50% for so long.

If the content is scaled to a mediocre player's standard then what reason is there to be good or to improve? I'm not saying cater to the hardcore or to base content on the top 1% by any means. But as soon as you start making content boring and easy then you start losing players, so don't cater to the less than average either.


"TOO HARD" is completely and totally subjective, purely a matter of opinion. Players can improve and step up to a challenge however. If you start asking those that already meet the challenges to dumb down and play easier content you bore them and they leave.

ZOS has been catering to people who claim "It's too hard." long enough, hopefully they realize that had a lot to do with the drop in numbers and that the increased challenge of 1.5 is the reason they've gotten those numbers back up. You personally don't like a challenge? Well what makes your preference more important than mine?

eventide03b14a_ESO

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Lol, reading this *** funny.
Guys saying it's too hard, guys saying it's easy. Your group Sucked, my group clears it in 10min.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.
This game is all about three maybe four, specific builds, it's min max or get the *** out.

Balance in this games a joke, it's like I said, if you are stuck having to run the same setup, gear, attributes as everyone else just to experience the entire game, then why the *** even bother saying it's balanced?

If ZOS expects us to all run with the same gear, then get rid of all the pointless *** and just give us the official best in slot list (really should be the only use this list) so all of us can experience the game the way you want us.
Play as you want is a lie. I get that each fight is different and each skill has its place, but Jesus, change it up a bit. No way out of all the different abilities we have should four or five be so over used that if you don't use them your non viable to participate in end game.

You're right there are only a handful of viable builds especially for AoE DPS but the problem with the groups that run these dungeons is that they don't understand the basic mechanics of this game like roll dodging and blocking. That's why they fail half the time. The lack of AoE options is something that I hope ZOS addresses. Right now all of the best and most sustainable AoE DPS is magicka based.

Kraven

Robocles wrote: »

Kraven wrote: »

I still don't understand the problem. It's too hard? By whose standards? Seems selfish and self important to think the game should be brought down to your level making it boring and overly simplified for the players not having an issue with the difficulty.

CoH specifically is a mechanic heavy dungeon. Don't do the mechanic and you die, simple really. Everything is telegraphed and everything can be countered, there are multiple ways to do this dungeon. Spider boss? Tank her in the middle facing away from the group when she telegraphs the AoE the other 3 members split until it is discovered who the aoe is chasing, that person then kites the circle around the outside of the room while the other members return to the middle.

It's in no way meant to be condescending when I say "Improve yourself. Instead of asking the game to be brought down to your level, step your skill up to the challenge." There are a lot of fights where the key is working the mechanic not ignoring it. I love the scaling changes because it has made people improve their game play. There are more skilled and semi-skilled players now than before.

There are checks in place, doesn't matter what class you are using to DPS with what matters is you do enough to meet the dps checks in certain fights. If the gargoyle in spindle kills your group then you need more dps, plain and simple fact. Barring the bugged fights where block is being completely ignored, if you're getting one shotted as a tank you need better armor/health or to learn when to block and when to get the hell out of the way. If your group is sitting at 50% health for 30 seconds so you can dps with your off bar, then someone gets one shotted, perhaps they shouldn't have been sitting at 50% for so long.

If the content is scaled to a mediocre player's standard then what reason is there to be good or to improve? I'm not saying cater to the hardcore or to base content on the top 1% by any means. But as soon as you start making content boring and easy then you start losing players, so don't cater to the less than average either.


"TOO HARD" is completely and totally subjective, purely a matter of opinion. Players can improve and step up to a challenge however. If you start asking those that already meet the challenges to dumb down and play easier content you bore them and they leave.

ZOS has been catering to people who claim "It's too hard." long enough, hopefully they realize that had a lot to do with the drop in numbers and that the increased challenge of 1.5 is the reason they've gotten those numbers back up. You personally don't like a challenge? Well what makes your preference more important than mine?

While I don't necessarily agree with all of his points, the OP does state what he thinks is too hard.

I'm not sure why you have to berate him about it.

MrGhosty wrote: »

I have no issue with having really tough bosses, the other bosses we faced were a real challenge but we managed just fine. Up to that point we were all having a really good time so something still isn't right with the balancing.

To those who have the smart remarks and witty retorts, I've paid the same price for the game as you did. Everyone has paid that same price, so we're all entitled to speak up when something doesn't feel quite right. I wouldn't want to walk over the bosses, I'm game for a challenge even one that requires me to try new strats but something that bottoms you out after an hour+ does not a good game make. That, to me, is bad design and bears looking into. These dungeons have stories and content that should not be placed behind a wall just to appease those players who have "optimal" builds and high end strats. An outside program such as TS should not be required in order to make something work, if you're going outside of the game then clearly something isn't balanced quite right.

O FFS. My group did spend hours in there the very first time, because we had to learn the strats and get them down. If we had walked through it in under 30 minutes like all the other vet dungeons prior to 1.5 there would be no point in doing it. I have played MMOs for 20 years now, I have played this game since early beta and I for one have never felt the need to 'take a break' or to just quit playing. Look at your own guild rosters and tell me how many people can say that? If CoH had been a cake walk the first time, if CoA was simple fluff IT WOULD BE BORING and if it was boring you same people would be here crying for some other reason.

Fact: Ease or Difficulty is measured on a person by person basis.

Fact: Opinions on whether it is too hard or too easy are OPINIONS.

Fact: Your OPINION is no more valuable than any other persons, neither is mine but at least I'm aware of that.

Fact: Overly large and unwarranted senses of entitlement have ruined MMOs for 20 years. Enough is enough.

Fact: To think that a game should cater to you specifically and your opinion of it's difficulty is extremely selfish and arrogant.

OpinionFact: There has to be some challenging content, it can't all be centered around the lowest common denominator.

Opinion: The difficulty is fine. Players need to rise to the challenge and not beg the challenge to be removed all together. Adjust yourself to the game.

Oh and side note, I've done it all with my own stamina build since day 1.

Shunravi

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Lol, reading this *** funny.
Guys saying it's too hard, guys saying it's easy. Your group Sucked, my group clears it in 10min.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.
This game is all about three maybe four, specific builds, it's min max or get the *** out.

Balance in this games a joke, it's like I said, if you are stuck having to run the same setup, gear, attributes as everyone else just to experience the entire game, then why the *** even bother saying it's balanced?

If ZOS expects us to all run with the same gear, then get rid of all the pointless *** and just give us the official best in slot list (really should be the only use this list) so all of us can experience the game the way you want us.
Play as you want is a lie. I get that each fight is different and each skill has its place, but Jesus, change it up a bit. No way out of all the different abilities we have should four or five be so over used that if you don't use them your non viable to participate in end game.

Lol. Just lol.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Once you know the mechanics of the fights they are easy. I complete these dungeons with guildies who run out of the box, non fotm, and bizarre builds all the time.

It is possible simply because they know the fight. It is possible simply because we work as a team.

Sure if you don't know the fight, or you don't run with a team, these builds can be more challenging. But they are not impossible for endgame content.

Joy_Division

I don't know what to tell you. The Spider Boss in CoH is not that difficult once you know the mechanics of the fight. It really isn't. Even on the hardest difficulty level of the game, it is not hard.

And I don't even know how to help you. There are not tons or swarms of adds. It's a few spiders that don't even do that much damage to light-armored healers. Also you claim that she webs multiple people at once. She doesn't. I expect people to exaggerate to make a (faulty) point. You go beyond this and lie.

As others have pointed out to you, there are really only two things in fight to look out for. There is a lightning storm that follows a player. Simply move around the outside of the room until it goes away. She will occasionally web people. If not on TeamSpeak, you need to occasionally check your teammates to see if they are webbed. These are really the only 2 dangerous attacks that will kill "normal" or "casual" players.