Crypt of Hearts Veteran Pledge - some bosses are too powerful & too many adds

Mud_Puppy

Please stop, like for real. Look what happened to silver and gold content.

Lithium Flower

Please don't nerf vet dungeons further. They can be difficult, some can be quite hard and that makes them fun. I'm no elite player and neither are most of my guild but we regularly have fun doing hard content and feeling genuinely challenged. Sometimes we fail, and it's frustrating but when we do manage to get timings right and clear it, the sense of accomplishment is that much more.

We don't want to go back to pre 1.5, easy dungeons that were just seen as a means to get some more skill points and achievements with people seldom going back.

Learn the boss mechanics, gear up appropriately (no one's asking for epic/legendary trial/arena gear but put some effort into being reasonably adequate at your role whether tank, dps or healing), and coordinate with the group.

Or do vet dungeons scaled down to whatever level corresponds with your comfort level.

timidobserver

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

That maybe. I usually use TS for raids (well used in other MMORPGs).

I have no idea how it is on NA servers. Here on the european servers it's pretty hard to find a group. Even within the guilds. So it's PuGs. And most of them don't use TS. If you sort them out, you don't get a group at all *sigh*

Should have gone to NA server...friend told me there's more going on and less issues with bugs.

That is also part of the issue. I rarely pug at all anymore. I don't know how things are on the EU server, but I highly suggest finding

Natjur wrote: »

Always wondered what it would be like to have 5 Warlock, 5 Adroitness set. You would have less spell damage then other sets but could just spam and spam.

Due to the cooldown the adroitness set isn't really that great. You'd probably get more out of Seducer in the long run.

Palindrome

honestly am on the other side of this, i think the vet dungeons are perfect right now. they are a challenge but not impossible.
and once you have done them a few times they become a breeze. I run as a templar healer and my groups normally clear the vet pledge in 15-25min

I do not understand how so many people are having such a hard time with these dungeons. and honestly i would hate to see them get further nerfed, as they already lowered the damage and health of vet dungeon monsters

Drasn

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

@Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO, I have to agree with you (the OP) on this one and am somewhat disappointed that so many people who responded here have been dismissive of your concerns. Not only dismissive, but sometimes highly condescending.

If everyone who said these dungeons are "easy" is telling the truth about their experiences, then the game has a severe problem when the range of experiences varies so widely.

I do think many of the veteran dungeons (if not all), Arena and trials are overly difficult. The difficulty is even greater when you have to face a boss and its adds in a very confined space such as I did with a group on Friday. It was a small room with some kind of columns and levers in the center, and cluttered with rocks and stuff to get stuck on. The boss kept flooding the air with poison.

Which brings up another problem with many of these dungeons that bothers me. Almost all fights in them are melee-based. They are AoE and smash-mouthed melee, which leaves little use for a bow and other ranged capabilities. Range is, at best, situational and possibly good for fight starters only.

Except for trials, groups are indeed confined only to four people, one of whom must be dedicated to healing. So really only three people are doing damage against often overwhelming numbers of adds, plus the enemy AoE, plus the boss itself getting into the fight. Often there's even more than one enemy healer.

I'm a vr14 Imperial Templar DPS (bow + 2-handed sword) who can approach nearly 50k total damage in some fights (about 1600k sustained average DPS for a 30 minute fight), but so far I haven't been in a group that has beaten even one veteran dungeon or the arena. (I did a trial only once, but not with this build, so who knows if it would be a better experience the second time around.) I haven't done that 1600k sustained average DPS in every fight, but am capable of it. Problem is, the fight is usually over before there's a chance to do much of anything, let alone high sustained damage.

So far in every veteran dungeon I've tried, people have gotten frustrated after trying time and time again to beat even the first boss, and they give up.

Another problem is the reward at the end is often not worth it even if you do manage to complete the dungeon. Those fancy helms and shoulder pieces are nice, but to get one that fits your build you would have to run the dungeons over and over again. But heck, if I ever am in a group that manages to beat a dungeon, the idea of doing it all over again is just not appealing. So the OP has a very valid point, in my opinion.

I'm sure you meant 1.6k over 30 seconds. If any fight is taking you 30 minutes there is no way you are pulling anything close to those numbers.

As far as the 50k per fight that doesn't matter. Lets say most scaled v12 bosses have 100k+ hit points as one of 2 DPS it is your job to take nearly half of the bosses life pool. Which by your numbers you are coming close on the lower HP bosses, so you are doing your job. The problem is the other DPS needs to be taking the other half of the life pool. The tank needs to hold agro on said boss. And the healer needs to keep everyone topped off. Even if you are doing your job anyone of the group falling short can mess the rest over.

When I run in a PuG group the number one thing I notice is that at least 1 person if not 2 have no idea what the mechanics of certain fights are. Learn the mechanics, make sure the people you are running with know the mechanics and things become much easier.

Also keep in mind, some people are just bad and require the other 3 to carry them. There is nothing you can do about this other than choose not to run with that person.

Also the fact that used the Dwemer Spider Boss as an example to why fights are geared towards melee makes me believe you are the one forcing others to wear a backbrace.

Surfinginhawaii

We just had our butts handed to us doing Vet Crypt of Hearts but it was fun trying, that damn spider.

Jacques Berge

Waaaaaaaahhhh!!!! The hard content is too hard!!! LAWLS!!!! Me an a buddy haven't really played ESO for almost 2 weeks and we came and flew through vet CoH... Completed the time trial, daily challenge, and death challenge with one go... With a rusty NB, rusty temp heals, drunk DK tank, and a so-so sorc dps. The *** isn't that hard... You are just bad at the following... Combat, char building, group building, teamwork.

Play your own way does not mean play your own way and be super successful. Vet CoH is probably one of the easier dungeons. Players really need to start taking accountability for their own inability to complete content.

ArcanusMagus

I did veteran Crypt of Hearts for the first time tonight. My group got a gold key because we left the ghosts alive until the Ebony Blade came into play. We had a templar tank, a templar healer, a nightblade dps, and a sorceror dps.

As the sorceror, I was running all crafted gear. The gear was yellow, v12, that I made around the time that 1.4 came out. I use 5-piece Spectre's Eye and 3-piece Willow's Path. I did not bother to enchant half of the gear. The rings were Pact rings with spell damage added to them. The necklace was some purple I picked up in Craglorn. I was using crushing shock, endless fury, inner light, power surge, and impulse. I think I was running negate as my ultimate, but I don't remember. Is this the best possible setup? Probably not, but it suits my playstyle right now. This description shouldn't leave any doubt that I'm not big into elite min/maxing stuff.

We got through with a few deaths at a mini-boss that was buggy - some kind of aoe caster who picks the group up into the air. Other than that we had 0 problems and everybody enjoyed themselves.

I did not use any kind of voice communication.

I explain the circumstances merely as a point of reference.

Here's how we did the spider boss: the templar tank kept the agro of the boss, the healer healed, the nightblade dps focused on the boss and took care of nearby adds as they appeared, and I focused on the adds with impulse (which melted them - I use an inferno staff) and only when the adds were done did I return to the boss. The cocoons were handled by whomever was closest to them - I think we had three of them the entire fight - just an annoyance, really. When the boss was at low enough health for endless fury to proc, I popped a spell potion and spammed endless fury until the boss died. The fight lasted a minute or two. No one died.

I don't see anything wrong with the difficulty. If it were easier I think it would be boring after a short time.

Jacques Berge

^^^^ amazing post!!!

Just so you know, the key to the second to last boss is to 3 man it. Have the tank stay way in the back of the room so he doesn't get grabbed. As long as you're not in 2 of the aoes youll be fine.

Rylana

You want to know whats really hard?

Correctly pronouncing the name of the boss the OP is referring to.

Shunravi

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

@Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO, I have to agree with you (the OP) on this one and am somewhat disappointed that so many people who responded here have been dismissive of your concerns. Not only dismissive, but sometimes highly condescending.

If everyone who said these dungeons are "easy" is telling the truth about their experiences, then the game has a severe problem when the range of experiences varies so widely.

I do think many of the veteran dungeons (if not all), Arena and trials are overly difficult. The difficulty is even greater when you have to face a boss and its adds in a very confined space such as I did with a group on Friday. It was a small room with some kind of columns and levers in the center, and cluttered with rocks and stuff to get stuck on. The boss kept flooding the air with poison.

Which brings up another problem with many of these dungeons that bothers me. Almost all fights in them are melee-based. They are AoE and smash-mouthed melee, which leaves little use for a bow and other ranged capabilities. Range is, at best, situational and possibly good for fight starters only.

Except for trials, groups are indeed confined only to four people, one of whom must be dedicated to healing. So really only three people are doing damage against often overwhelming numbers of adds, plus the enemy AoE, plus the boss itself getting into the fight. Often there's even more than one enemy healer.

I'm a vr14 Imperial Templar DPS (bow + 2-handed sword) who can approach nearly 50k total damage in some fights (about 1600k sustained average DPS for a 30 minute fight), but so far I haven't been in a group that has beaten even one veteran dungeon or the arena. (I did a trial only once, but not with this build, so who knows if it would be a better experience the second time around.) I haven't done that 1600k sustained average DPS in every fight, but am capable of it. Problem is, the fight is usually over before there's a chance to do much of anything, let alone high sustained damage.

So far in every veteran dungeon I've tried, people have gotten frustrated after trying time and time again to beat even the first boss, and they give up.

Another problem is the reward at the end is often not worth it even if you do manage to complete the dungeon. Those fancy helms and shoulder pieces are nice, but to get one that fits your build you would have to run the dungeons over and over again. But heck, if I ever am in a group that manages to beat a dungeon, the idea of doing it all over again is just not appealing. So the OP has a very valid point, in my opinion.

Ouch.

I really don't like commenting on these nerf threads as I don't want to come across as "dismissive, but sometimes highly condescending" because when it comes to dungeons, I can't help it. Of course, I too used to struggle back when I was first learning the instances. But now that I know the mechanics of the fights, things are much easier. I'm very much open to sharing my knowledge on these mechanics, and I'm even writing guides on all the dungeons (they are wip, but we will have them up soon...)

That being said, the Engine Guardian is an interesting fight. Its a battle of attrition (unless you have balls to the walls dps) where you have to balance movement with your dps (the fire or 'red' phase) and heal through the poison (or green). Or you could pull the levers in the center and end the phase, but honestly, that's harder. You also need to take out those adds quickly, and try to stay out of line of sight of the boss while doing it. His shock attack during the add (or yellow) phase does a lot of damage. The fight can be a bit taxing on your healer, but if they manage their resources well and avoid over-healing they should be fine.

Then again, this is the first time i have heard this

Which brings up another problem with many of these dungeons that bothers me. Almost all fights in them are melee-based. They are AoE and smash-mouthed melee, which leaves little use for a bow and other ranged capabilities. Range is, at best, situational and possibly good for fight starters only.

The majority of the complaints I hear from higher level content are quite the opposite. Most complain that the fights are too melee unfriendly. Honestly, you gave me a good laugh with that one. Its a comment I did not expect to see.

I don't see why you don't like healers... although that seems to be a trend. In my guild I fell like I sometimes give 'unofficial healer therapy' for healers abused by "omg this healer sucks! l2p noob healer! I expect you to heal me even though I stand in red." attitude they experience before joining us. Please take it easy on your healer. These people are very nice people and are trying hard to compensate for your mistakes. Have some sympathy.

But as to the enemy healers, hard hitting trash, and boss, that's what a tank is for. Until you get to the point where you find dungeons easy, I recommend you always have a healer and a tank. Kill the enemies in order of priority. Healers are always at the top of that list. Learn the mechanics and how to deal with them. Every aoe follows rules that you can learn and play around.

Now, I'm at the point where I do find this stuff easy, so the smallish rewards at the end don't matter much to me. But I certainly can see your perspective after struggling. Now I agree on the validity of the OP complaint, but lessening the difficulty is not the answer imo.

Vusile

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

I do not know if this is just me.

But ever since that dungeon scaling and pledge system has been released, some boss mobs are simply not really doable. At least not by normal players.

Some are doable, but some I find simply impossible to do ever since that new system has been released.

They are too powerful. They deal too much and too fast AoE dmg, that also keeps following. At the same time adds, that deal more damage than the boss mob, are spawned in very fast cycles... at the same time multiple people of your group get webbed, stunned or whatever in very rapid cycles - depend on someone to free them in time - while adds and AoE-Damage follow you around.

In short - it is only a rat race. So much dmg has been dealt, that the group wipes within 2 minutes... maybe we last 5 minutes but then we did not do much dmg to boss, because we were busy killing adds that do even more dmg than the boss.

As I wrote before, some are doable, but some are just insane...

Is this supposed to remain like this or will this be fixed and balanced?

Can only speak for myself. But the current high-end content bores and frustrates me. Don't need that after a stressful day of hard work... I want fun and a real challenge not just some super-ubber-pimped boss mob that can only be done when you are some over-dressed 24/7 player.

Considering the amount of people I have seen leaving over the past weeks, I am probably not alone with that view. But as things are, I am going to join them soon and hope that the next Offline Game from Beth will be better.

It really saddens me to write this, since I had high hopes. I played many MMORPGs for many years - and really had hoped that ESO won't repeat the same mistakes...
That game is not even 1 year old... and it already frustrates at the high-end content with the very same mistakes all the others MMORPGs did over several years... that's a new record.

Didn't really read the rest of thread or really care to--just responding to OP.

I completely agree with you that some of this scaling is off. I did the daily vet CoH pledge with a public group. We were running two dps sorc, tank, and healer attempting to get the optional objective. We ran through the entire dungeon with two wipes as got to the last boss at which point we spent about 3 hours and 30-40 wipes before we beat him.

It was at that point that I realized how ridiculous the mob, AoE, insta-kill moves all were in combination. Taken alone, we were able to avoid all the AoE, resurrect, and dodge insta kill moves AT OUR BEST. When it came to letting those four mobs survive for the optional objective, it threw everything into disarray since they did a ton of damage. My group was all VR14 and I was the only one running through the dungeon for the first time, but even after learning the strategy, there was nothing to do against such high damage. Healer couldn't keep up and tank would die, or healer would get insta killed and then it would be a domino effect... Eventually we got it because the "stars aligned"... But that should not be the definition of a challenge IMO. A challenge should be some interesting game mechanic addition, not overwhelming health and damage buffs.

Anyway, that's my story. I agree with you. It's beatable, but tough for all the wrong reasons.

xaraan

Shunravi wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

@Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO, I have to agree with you (the OP) on this one and am somewhat disappointed that so many people who responded here have been dismissive of your concerns. Not only dismissive, but sometimes highly condescending.

If everyone who said these dungeons are "easy" is telling the truth about their experiences, then the game has a severe problem when the range of experiences varies so widely.

I do think many of the veteran dungeons (if not all), Arena and trials are overly difficult. The difficulty is even greater when you have to face a boss and its adds in a very confined space such as I did with a group on Friday. It was a small room with some kind of columns and levers in the center, and cluttered with rocks and stuff to get stuck on. The boss kept flooding the air with poison.

Which brings up another problem with many of these dungeons that bothers me. Almost all fights in them are melee-based. They are AoE and smash-mouthed melee, which leaves little use for a bow and other ranged capabilities. Range is, at best, situational and possibly good for fight starters only.

Except for trials, groups are indeed confined only to four people, one of whom must be dedicated to healing. So really only three people are doing damage against often overwhelming numbers of adds, plus the enemy AoE, plus the boss itself getting into the fight. Often there's even more than one enemy healer.

I'm a vr14 Imperial Templar DPS (bow + 2-handed sword) who can approach nearly 50k total damage in some fights (about 1600k sustained average DPS for a 30 minute fight), but so far I haven't been in a group that has beaten even one veteran dungeon or the arena. (I did a trial only once, but not with this build, so who knows if it would be a better experience the second time around.) I haven't done that 1600k sustained average DPS in every fight, but am capable of it. Problem is, the fight is usually over before there's a chance to do much of anything, let alone high sustained damage.

So far in every veteran dungeon I've tried, people have gotten frustrated after trying time and time again to beat even the first boss, and they give up.

Another problem is the reward at the end is often not worth it even if you do manage to complete the dungeon. Those fancy helms and shoulder pieces are nice, but to get one that fits your build you would have to run the dungeons over and over again. But heck, if I ever am in a group that manages to beat a dungeon, the idea of doing it all over again is just not appealing. So the OP has a very valid point, in my opinion.

Ouch.

I really don't like commenting on these nerf threads as I don't want to come across as "dismissive, but sometimes highly condescending" because when it comes to dungeons, I can't help it. Of course, I too used to struggle back when I was first learning the instances. But now that I know the mechanics of the fights, things are much easier. I'm very much open to sharing my knowledge on these mechanics, and I'm even writing guides on all the dungeons (they are wip, but we will have them up soon...)

That being said, the Engine Guardian is an interesting fight. Its a battle of attrition (unless you have balls to the walls dps) where you have to balance movement with your dps (the fire or 'red' phase) and heal through the poison (or green). Or you could pull the levers in the center and end the phase, but honestly, that's harder. You also need to take out those adds quickly, and try to stay out of line of sight of the boss while doing it. His shock attack during the add (or yellow) phase does a lot of damage. The fight can be a bit taxing on your healer, but if they manage their resources well and avoid over-healing they should be fine.

Then again, this is the first time i have heard this

Which brings up another problem with many of these dungeons that bothers me. Almost all fights in them are melee-based. They are AoE and smash-mouthed melee, which leaves little use for a bow and other ranged capabilities. Range is, at best, situational and possibly good for fight starters only.

The majority of the complaints I hear from higher level content are quite the opposite. Most complain that the fights are too melee unfriendly. Honestly, you gave me a good laugh with that one. Its a comment I did not expect to see.

I don't see why you don't like healers... although that seems to be a trend. In my guild I fell like I sometimes give 'unofficial healer therapy' for healers abused by "omg this healer sucks! l2p noob healer! I expect you to heal me even though I stand in red." Please take it easy on your healer. These people are very nice people and are trying hard to compensate for your mistakes. Have some sympathy.

But as to the enemy healers, hard hitting trash, and boss, that's what a tank is for. Until you get to the point where you find dungeons easy, I recommend you always have a healer and a tank. Kill the enemies in order of priority. Healers are always at the top of that list. Learn the mechanics and how to deal with them. Every aoe follows rules that you can learn and play around.

Now, I'm at the point where I do find this stuff easy, so the smallish rewards at the end don't matter much to me. But I certainly can see your perspective after struggling. Now I agree on the validity of the OP complaint, but lessening the difficulty is not the answer imo.

I bolded the part of your comment I'm replying to: I agree that healers get a lot of crap. We've been doing something lately where we switch roles because we've built up different characters. It gives you an appreciation for the other roles. I personally think healing in high level content is the hardest and most stressful of the roles. It definitely makes me think about how my healer is handling things when I'm in other roles and makes me try not to put them in positions that will tax them if I don't have to.

xaraan

As for the content, we played through this again today (as was the pledge) three times and only had three of our four guys, so we did it with a random each time. We also use alts on the other two, which are guys we are less familiar with in roles we are less familiar with and gear not quite as maxed out. It went pretty well every time. They have definitely nerfed the bosses a bit from last time we did this. It's not that bad guys.

Yes, I'm sorry it sounds dismissive, but "dismissing" our comments as dismissive is a bit silly. Nobody knows our posting history. I've been in several of these threads, supporting calls for ZoS to work on the mechanics after 1.5 because of how crazy the scaling was - despite having completed them everyday with no problem. I've agreed time and again that you can tell they are not balanced. Now that I don't agree that CoHs is just as bad suddenly we can be chalked up as dismissive or condescending.

Like many vet fights. Once you learn the mechanics and get everything down and all four people pull their weight, the fights become pretty simple. Trust me, I'm not doing anything another player cannot pull off.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I'm sorry but they are not too difficult. The problem is the groups you are in don't know the fights and don't have sufficient AoE DPS. Those two things are critical for dungeon success. Unfortunately with PUGs you don't know what you're getting. You don't know your group mate's build, competence, or gear and you can't rely on class as an indicator. You might not have a properly built tank or a low magicka healer. You're right that a normal group cannot do them, because it's normal for groups to have inexperienced people who don't know what they're doing. We shouldn't dumb down the dungeons just because people can't be bothered to learn how to play the game. My suggestion would be to join a guild that knows how to run these and does them on a regular basis and have them teach you how to do them. Then you will see that they really are not that difficult.

serenenightmare

I've read a lot pn the forums about many complaining about the pledges being too hard. I don't understand...

If you are pugging it up, yeah, its going to be hard. If you don't get the mechanics or have enough DPS, yes, its going to be hard.

I've never had a problem with any of the dungeons nor have I failed one. Each individual person needs to carry their own weight. The vet pledges with vr14 mobs generally only take about 30 minutes with my guildies.

If anything they are way too easy, especially crypt of hearts

Magdalina

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

My build as a Sorc:
Magicka 25
Health 35
Stamina 2

HP: 2051 unbuffed -> 2519 buffed
Magicka: 2365 unbuffed -> 2581 buffed and also soft capped
Magicka Regen: 161
Spell Resist: 2269 also soft capped

VR5 Blue or Purple food - depending on what I am supposed to do.

Wearing 5 X Purple Seducer and 4X Mara Set (incl. Staff swap)
Infused, Divine + purple glyph enhancements...

Spell Crit : 30 % - 36 % depening which staff I use.

All my dmg enhancing and dmg dealing spells are maxed and morphed.
Also those of the Mage Guild, and also those of Warrior guild for exra dmg on daedra and undead.

One bar is for healing and staying alive...
The other bar is for damage and debuffing...

AoE didn't do anything to the spider addes btw.
We herded them together. AoEs did not do any dmg. We had to nuke them one by one, that was the only damage they acknowledged.
AoEs, maxed out... even with spell enhancer pots and spells... did nothing at all.
The only spell that really did some dmg was Crystal Fragments and Crushing Shock. Everything else dmg-wise from the sorc line was useless.

I'm using Seducer myself since I'm not a fan of spell symmetry. Seducer, a few spare Healer pcs and Pact's 3 pcs +10% crit set. I just spam Crushing Shock bffed by Crit surge usually, with Elemental ring for aoe and Endless fry for execute. Also, Evil Hunter does wonders in COH(morph of Epert hunter in Fighters' guild skilltree).

My stats are about the same except crit being 54%.

The damage I can do with this build is not anything amazing, but it's enough for any fight in the game, including COA hardmode.

I'd say you might want a bit more crit but it's not a dps problem likely, really. It's group coordination. I can see how COH can be frustrated, but it was hardest dungeon pre-1.5, but now it's actually kinda easy compared to buffed vet ones. It's my favourite dungeon, and I enjoy its mechanics;)

Don't run with PUGs. Get a group of friends/guildies together that know the place/are capable of learning. Get on Teamspeak if possible, it makes Spider boss a lot easier. Have tank tank her turned to the wall on the right from entrance, everyone else spread out around the room. Watch out for the aoe, when you get it, move FAST, lead it around the room. She cannot web more than one person at a time(although I did encounter a visual bug which made it appear so - unwebbed person still looked webbed), just call the coocoon out in TS/chat and free the person fast(and don't lead the aoe to them). Ads are fine but annoying, ulti them. Banner, Veil, Nova, Atonach, all work. When I have trouble with this fight, I use Negate for ads so we can safely burn them down. They're ads, don't burn them one by one, stack and aoe/ulti them.

That said, it's possible she bugged out on you, though she never did on me. Best I had was not loading(yes still deadly) aoe. If you were NA EP, I'd gladly run with you=/

Also, when people say vet pledges are easy, don't let them get to you:P That's showing off while having a good, extremely experienced group with TS usually.

Teargrants wrote: »

I don't even...

Yes, some dungeons have issues like unblockable bosses now, but crypt of hearts is not one of them. If anything it is one of the easier dungeons now. If your group is running out if resources and dieing because they can't add control, the problem is between keyboard and chair. Every boss fight is basically a brain dead DPS, walk out of the red circle affair in CoH.

Mage light > crit surge > evil hunter > wall of ele > impulse impulse, or crushing shock for single target, ect. There's no reason to use shards, as OP mentioned using them. Shards for DPS is just bad.

And OP, there's no reason for you as a DPS to have a heals bar, that's the job of the healer. That's not conciet, it's crucial that DPS do DPS and leave healing to heals. Otherwise you waste resources with heals and most importantly lose DPS. That's how adds pile up, hurting the group more and putting strain on heals.

There're different builds out there, actually. Cryst Frags actually give a nice boost to dps if you stack spell dmg and only use them on procs(I don't do that, but I know a lot of sorcs who do). Also, off heals bar can do wonders in certain situation, since **** happens, even to the best of us.

Just saying.

Magdalina

On a side note, I've run COH hardmode after 1.5 as a sorc healer; we had NB dps, melee templar dps and NB tank. For the latter 2 it was the first time in a dungeon. We weren't using TS and it was our first run together. I really only went in because I couldn't politely explain that we wouldn't make it with inexperienced group with such makeup etc.

We had like 3 wipes the entire run. One of them on last boss because we got him down so fast we forgot to leave 4 ads alive and had to wipe to redo him, lol. Oviously, I was wrong about such a group being unable to do it. I was willing to explain and they were willing to listen - that was all it took in the end.

So, find the people willing to learn and good luck, OP;)

NadiusMaximus

Lol, reading this *** funny.
Guys saying it's too hard, guys saying it's easy. Your group Sucked, my group clears it in 10min.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.
This game is all about three maybe four, specific builds, it's min max or get the *** out.

Balance in this games a joke, it's like I said, if you are stuck having to run the same setup, gear, attributes as everyone else just to experience the entire game, then why the *** even bother saying it's balanced?

If ZOS expects us to all run with the same gear, then get rid of all the pointless *** and just give us the official best in slot list (really should be the only use this list) so all of us can experience the game the way you want us.
Play as you want is a lie. I get that each fight is different and each skill has its place, but Jesus, change it up a bit. No way out of all the different abilities we have should four or five be so over used that if you don't use them your non viable to participate in end game.

TehMagnus

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

I do not know if this is just me.

But ever since that dungeon scaling and pledge system has been released, some boss mobs are simply not really doable. At least not by normal players.

Some are doable, but some I find simply impossible to do ever since that new system has been released.

They are too powerful. They deal too much and too fast AoE dmg, that also keeps following. At the same time adds, that deal more damage than the boss mob, are spawned in very fast cycles... at the same time multiple people of your group get webbed, stunned or whatever in very rapid cycles - depend on someone to free them in time - while adds and AoE-Damage follow you around.

In short - it is only a rat race. So much dmg has been dealt, that the group wipes within 2 minutes... maybe we last 5 minutes but then we did not do much dmg to boss, because we were busy killing adds that do even more dmg than the boss.

The boss you are referring to here is the spider which is one of the easiest bosses in this dungeon. Mechanics are quite simple. Tank keeps agro of the spider. The person who has the AOE circle needs to run in a circle around the middle circle while the rest of the players stay in the middle killing the boss and healing the guy who is running around. If the tank has circle, all he need to do is keep agro on boss and move around the middle circle. The adds (aka spiders) that spawn from time to time can be AOE'd in a couple of seconds with elemental ring from the two DPSers. On cocoon, all you need to do is be on teamspeak and ask for a player to free you which takes 2s and even if the tank gets caught, he can still take a few hits from the spider while you free him. If agro is lost, hold block and wait for tank to retake agro.

I'm sorry but if you can't beat such an easy boss, the problem is not in the difficulty of the dungeon, it's in your healer and your teammates movement. If you're not doing enough DPS, maybe it's time to switch to magicka builds or to a viable stamina build (which is only really viable for nightblades atm).

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

As I wrote before, some are doable, but some are just insane...

Is this supposed to remain like this or will this be fixed and balanced?

Can only speak for myself. But the current high-end content bores and frustrates me. Don't need that after a stressful day of hard work... I want fun and a real challenge not just some super-ubber-pimped boss mob that can only be done when you are some over-dressed 24/7 player.

Considering the amount of people I have seen leaving over the past weeks, I am probably not alone with that view. But as things are, I am going to join them soon and hope that the next Offline Game from Beth will be better.

It really saddens me to write this, since I had high hopes. I played many MMORPGs for many years - and really had hoped that ESO won't repeat the same mistakes...
That game is not even 1 year old... and it already frustrates at the high-end content with the very same mistakes all the others MMORPGs did over several years... that's a new record.

There is no mistake. VR Crypt of Hearts and VR City of Ash where released after the initial VR dungeons. They are supposed to be insanely hard if you don't have the correct builds, correct teamplay and correct team coordination and communication. When the dungeon came out, many many players thought it was insane difficulty when in fact, if you know what to do and if you play decently, it's a walk in the park.

Content doesn't need nerf, COH is quite easy. It's you and your party need to improve.

NadiusMaximus

I'd love to hear the QQ if they made a boss and it's adds have a special buff that reflected impulse. Pft, I'd pay to see that.

Iduyenn

Guys! The V12 Instances are balanced very good! (Which is... something like a miracle... i know...).

This game is not too hard. But eventually (if so), you remember the first heroic instances in WOW. Everyone was crying, that they are too hard etc.
And yes, even with a fast group you where in there twice the time as in a veteran instance.

But you know what happened? The player started to theorycraft, test their builds and finally get some practice. And with the routine, the instance was a joke.

Dont expect to kill everything when you go in there the first time.
You have to learn!

Take your Time to watch a viedo on Youtube, how to kill boss x.

The Spideren is very easy, once the player learns how to move and place the circles. The trick is, to loose the tunnel view and watch what the others are doing and where. If you can do that, you can play your own character.
It`s the little things... dont stand before boss, after killing adds dont stay together, if you have the circle go out of your party.

The Bone-Fire thingy? Just move your asses and make dmg. You have to do both at the same time... yes... practice. (You have a very big room, use it!)

The second last boss: You can do it with 2 persons... 1 Tank, 1 DD. Perhaps your healer comes to heal you AFTER you where pulled to the boss... Yes, it`s possible and faceroll.

The last boss: Dont stand together. When he ports, you have to dodge out. Even me as a Tank. In the same time... make dmg.
In P2 you need even more damage. And the one who is in the bosses grip: Use your sinergy.

One last point: TANK, DD, DD, HEAL. In my group the healer does some dmg too, and the Tank does some DMG/Healing too. Even if its only a spear shard, just watch how much you can help your Tank and do 500 dps in mobgroups.
DONT THINK OF THE TRINITY, even if there is one... PPl who say: "I am a Healer, i do only the healing part" will not come far...
Tank: As a Templar, i can provide good support. The best support: I dont get hit very often, i have massive selfhealing-stuff, so the healer has an easy job (and can do dmg).
As a DK etc. you can support your group too (3 Standards in one bossfight...).
And the dd`s... do a load of damage. 1k+ singletarget. And every class is capable of that. You think 500 dps is enough? Sorry, it`s not.
Read guids and slaughter some Mamut`s.


And please... let`s remember; You can play, as you like. But in this sentence we dont have the word "efficiency" or "be awsome no mather what bs you do...".

You can whisper me ingame and i will tank for you (and explain things) (If i have time). But your homework is it, to do some self perspective.
You can be the lonsome DD-Tank-Healer out of a group. But if you do Pug`s, you have to bring your part with your gear-and skills.


Edit: Healer: At least 2 Novas during Bossfight (Dmg reduce, more dmg)
NB: With your shadows you reduce dmg... and use your circle thingy often.
Mage: Astronach (or negate in big mobgrups if they are together...)

zaria

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

Thing is, what to do when none of those AoEs does dmg...
They seem to be immune to AoE dmg. They even resisted Flawless Dawnbreaker :;-(

Also, what bugs me - very often we have two or three webbed players at once.
And that's game over...

I'm getting increasingly skeptical here. The only way you can get more than one webbed player at once is if you don't free webbed people, she only ever webs one person at a time. And the mobs most certainly are not immune to AoE damage.

I'm starting to think you're pulling my leg.

I have never run into anything who is immune to AOE damage inclusive bosses.
For sorcerer AOE damage is not much lower than single target damage anyway.

You can get multiple webbed if you are slow with releasing, teamspeak helps a lot here. Typical healer or ranged dps standing back and none see he is webbed.
Or the only one see it is too busy to do anything like a tank who has to block all the time and can not type.

sadene

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

I do not know if this is just me.

But ever since that dungeon scaling and pledge system has been released, some boss mobs are simply not really doable. At least not by normal players.

Some are doable, but some I find simply impossible to do ever since that new system has been released.

They are too powerful. They deal too much and too fast AoE dmg, that also keeps following. At the same time adds, that deal more damage than the boss mob, are spawned in very fast cycles... at the same time multiple people of your group get webbed, stunned or whatever in very rapid cycles - depend on someone to free them in time - while adds and AoE-Damage follow you around.

I noticed you're on EU megaserver. If you play for Daggerfall Covenant, we would gladly take you to CoH or any other dungeon with us. If you're interested, just contact me here or in game. We run several dungeons a day and consider ourselves "normal, casual" players The dungeons are not too hard, it only takes a little practice

WhiskyBob

The only hard content this game has are the forum cries over "too hard" content.

You wipe? Bosses make you curse, sweat, break stuff, yell at your cat? GOOD.

Crypt of Hearts isn't hard, Crypt of Hearts requires coordination, so grab any VOIP and stop complaining.
Examples:
Spider Boss - Tank can drag her around one of the four statues to block her small lightning. Lightning cloud follows one person, yell over VOIP that cloud follows you and then drag it away. Yell if you get cocooned.

Ilambis - Coordinate through aoe, time right your buffs like Aggresive Horn, nova, negate for the enrage phase (easy on VOIP)

Mezeluth - This fight is ALL ABOUT COORDINATION. There is no dps racing here, its pure mechanics.

"Coordinate and Win" instead of "Wipe with randoms and cry on forums"

Beesting

I bet you all that a lot of people that can't do the vet dungeons because they are too hard for pug's dont come here to cry on the forums (or in my case offer moral support) but they do something else instead:
1. Collect raw mats all day
2. Roll an low level alt and quest
3. Leave

I never played WoW but i get a pretty good idea that you have to invest a lot of time to prepare for the vet dungeons, it won't work with a drunk tank as someone said in a post above..

pppontus

Vusile wrote: »

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

I do not know if this is just me.

But ever since that dungeon scaling and pledge system has been released, some boss mobs are simply not really doable. At least not by normal players.

Some are doable, but some I find simply impossible to do ever since that new system has been released.

They are too powerful. They deal too much and too fast AoE dmg, that also keeps following. At the same time adds, that deal more damage than the boss mob, are spawned in very fast cycles... at the same time multiple people of your group get webbed, stunned or whatever in very rapid cycles - depend on someone to free them in time - while adds and AoE-Damage follow you around.

In short - it is only a rat race. So much dmg has been dealt, that the group wipes within 2 minutes... maybe we last 5 minutes but then we did not do much dmg to boss, because we were busy killing adds that do even more dmg than the boss.

As I wrote before, some are doable, but some are just insane...

Is this supposed to remain like this or will this be fixed and balanced?

Can only speak for myself. But the current high-end content bores and frustrates me. Don't need that after a stressful day of hard work... I want fun and a real challenge not just some super-ubber-pimped boss mob that can only be done when you are some over-dressed 24/7 player.

Considering the amount of people I have seen leaving over the past weeks, I am probably not alone with that view. But as things are, I am going to join them soon and hope that the next Offline Game from Beth will be better.

It really saddens me to write this, since I had high hopes. I played many MMORPGs for many years - and really had hoped that ESO won't repeat the same mistakes...
That game is not even 1 year old... and it already frustrates at the high-end content with the very same mistakes all the others MMORPGs did over several years... that's a new record.

Didn't really read the rest of thread or really care to--just responding to OP.

I completely agree with you that some of this scaling is off. I did the daily vet CoH pledge with a public group. We were running two dps sorc, tank, and healer attempting to get the optional objective. We ran through the entire dungeon with two wipes as got to the last boss at which point we spent about 3 hours and 30-40 wipes before we beat him.

It was at that point that I realized how ridiculous the mob, AoE, insta-kill moves all were in combination. Taken alone, we were able to avoid all the AoE, resurrect, and dodge insta kill moves AT OUR BEST. When it came to letting those four mobs survive for the optional objective, it threw everything into disarray since they did a ton of damage. My group was all VR14 and I was the only one running through the dungeon for the first time, but even after learning the strategy, there was nothing to do against such high damage. Healer couldn't keep up and tank would die, or healer would get insta killed and then it would be a domino effect... Eventually we got it because the "stars aligned"... But that should not be the definition of a challenge IMO. A challenge should be some interesting game mechanic addition, not overwhelming health and damage buffs.

Anyway, that's my story. I agree with you. It's beatable, but tough for all the wrong reasons.

Sorry mate but someone was doing something very wrong. Tanking all 4 adds normally doesn't ever get me below 85% hp, they don't hit for very much and should be easy for the tank to control.

We did that boss 3 man without our healer, me as sorc did both DPS and healing at the same time.. and no one died. ^^

It's surely frustrating, I wiped for hours the first time I went in to CoH when it first came out - but it isn't and wasn't a case of the dungeon being too hard but rather me and my group mates being too bad.

If they lower the difficulty to where everyone can complete it, there won't be anything left in the game to work for. And everyone will quit soon after. In the end that's the truth, and I know it doesn't feel that way now probably but for an MMO, not having that "next challenge" will kill it.

darkgritty

Beesting wrote: »

the problem is people do die

It is not a problem, it is natural. Failing is also natural. If someone can't figure out how to complete game content - he should ask for advice or watch videos of other, more fit players doing it.

Whining on forums solves nothing.

Cuyler

From what I can see from your build its is lacking some much needed dps and your crit rate is too low for a sorc. Thomas explains a really successful build below. Don't worry about the Aether set out of the gate. Warlock, Soulshine and Willow's is a great start and all easily acquired.

I noticed you mention your using an ice staff...personally I feel that a fire staff will increase your damage (morphs to DoTs) or even a lightning staff for faster light attack weaving.

I'd also use elemental drain on bar 1 instead of crystal frag. Save the frag for bar2 on execute phase.

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

The way we do spider boss is as follows:

1. Pair up - Tank with one DPS and Healer with the other DPS. Your new battle buddy is the person you are responsible for keeping an eye on and breaking the web if it applies to them.

2. The person who is being followed by the red circle needs to kite it away from the group.

3. When the adds spawn everyone need to group up and AOE them down.(This only takes a couple seconds.) Things that can help here if you are having trouble are: Templars drop nova for mitigation, Nightblades drop veil for mitigation, Sorcs drop Negate to stun adds DK drop banner for extra DPS on adds. Unless you are a nightblade the only AOE you should be using is impulse.

This fight is extremely easy when you are prepared and know the mechanics.

Further notes:
A good sorc set up for bars is:
Bar 1: Crushing Shock, Crystal Fragments, Critical Surge, Impulse, Inner Light
Ultimate - Flawless Dawnbreaker(never cast it, it's there for C. Shock.)
Bar 2: Mages Wrath, Crystal Fragments, Spell Symmetry, Annulent, Inner Light
Ultimate - Negate(or another ultimate worth casting.)

Rotation is simple:
Above 20%: Keep Critical Surge up as it boosts Crushing shock damage.
Crushing + Light weave until Crystal Fragments procs then use Crystal
Fragments.

Below 20%: Mages Wrath + Light weave. Crystal fragments on Proc.

Gear sets to look at:
3-Piece Soulshine: Jewelry only(2 Rings and Neck)
3/4 Piece Twilights Embrace
3/4 Piece Wise Mage(Aether)- Drops from AA
3 Piece Willows Path
3 Piece Wrath of the Imperium(Destruction Staff+2 Rings)- PVP Drops
Magnus/Seducer/Warlock/Adroitness - If you have resource issues.

Personally I run 4-Piece Aether, 4-Piece Twilight's Embrace, 3-Piece Soulshine.

Another note: Make sure your home PVP server is set to your faction's buff server(unless you have a legitimate reason for not doing this.)

Ashtaris

I think there are other bugs in the group dungeons, or ZOS didn't take into account what would happen to the adds by scaling the dugeons the way they did. Some dugeons are easily doable, and others are almost impossible. Seems to me their QC team needs to do each Group dungeon and determine if the mechanics are really working as intended.