Crypt of Hearts Veteran Pledge - some bosses are too powerful & too many adds

Teargrants

I don't even...

Yes, some dungeons have issues like unblockable bosses now, but crypt of hearts is not one of them. If anything it is one of the easier dungeons now. If your group is running out if resources and dieing because they can't add control, the problem is between keyboard and chair. Every boss fight is basically a brain dead DPS, walk out of the red circle affair in CoH.

Mage light > crit surge > evil hunter > wall of ele > impulse impulse, or crushing shock for single target, ect. There's no reason to use shards, as OP mentioned using them. Shards for DPS is just bad.

And OP, there's no reason for you as a DPS to have a heals bar, that's the job of the healer. That's not conciet, it's crucial that DPS do DPS and leave healing to heals. Otherwise you waste resources with heals and most importantly lose DPS. That's how adds pile up, hurting the group more and putting strain on heals.

The_Sadist

Having PUGed the dungeon twice yesterday with individuals who were happy to get on TS and listen to the tactics and who also used builds which dealt decent damage, I'm honestly not sure what you're complaining about. CoH is a cakewalk, Spindle, on the other hand, is quite frustrating.

Just to echo @Aeratus, communication is an important aspect during the Spider Daedra boss, though the fight itself isn't overly complicated once you know the tactic. Likewise, the last boss for those who haven't been there before can be quite tricky, but it's very much doable if you know the mechanics. All in all if your team isn't on par in terms of DPS, perhaps it's time to shake your build up a little and whatnot. I took a Sorcerer who used dual wield and a bow through and while our DPS suffered a little we managed to complete the boss after wiping twice, one of those was because someone accidentally killed a wraith.

If you're having major issues perhaps take a lower level through and get the dungeon scaled down or stick with non-vet pledges until something pops up which your team can handle.

xaraan

Crypt of Hearts should be pretty unaffected I'd think since it is already V12. I hate the whole "we did it" mentality, but we actually were able to do crypt 3 man back when we were v12 and it first came out - it's really not that bad. (And I've said many times I agree that some parts of the scaling were broken, not CoHs however). Now I would like having 4 people for the hard mode. But after having done crypt many times before and after patch, I'm not seeing any real change in the fights there.

Aeratus

xaraan wrote: »

Crypt of Hearts should be pretty unaffected I'd think since it is already V12. I hate the whole "we did it" mentality, but we actually were able to do crypt 3 man back when we were v12 and it first came out - it's really not that bad. (And I've said many times I agree that some parts of the scaling were broken, not CoHs however). Now I would like having 4 people for the hard mode. But after having done crypt many times before and after patch, I'm not seeing any real change in the fights there.

COH was affected actually by patch 1.5 actually. For example the current spider daedra boss "scaled" to v12 has twice the HP that it used to have before 1.5.

xaraan

Aeratus wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Crypt of Hearts should be pretty unaffected I'd think since it is already V12. I hate the whole "we did it" mentality, but we actually were able to do crypt 3 man back when we were v12 and it first came out - it's really not that bad. (And I've said many times I agree that some parts of the scaling were broken, not CoHs however). Now I would like having 4 people for the hard mode. But after having done crypt many times before and after patch, I'm not seeing any real change in the fights there.

COH was affected actually by patch 1.5 actually. For example the current spider daedra boss "scaled" to v12 has twice the HP that it used to have before 1.5.

weird, we haven't even felt much of a change with that fight. It's not taking twice as long for us or anything. I guess it could be a little tougher, and we just didn't notice anything drastic.

PBpsy

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

Aldruin wrote: »

With Mara and Seducer set don't expect much damage. Try using Aether+Willow path+soulshine for high dps.

Well, the only thing I can get my hand on is the Willow Set.

Aether... no chance. Never got a chance to finish whatever there is to finish to get that stuff...
Soulshine - only found once a VR4 heavy plate chest piece. And at the AH they demand insanse prices.

My bad, I guess...

Twilight+ Willows are good alternatives to Aether+Twilight or Willows.The difference is about 4spell crit and a few spell power points.The difference is almost imperceptible.

Soulshine can be farmed if one has enough patience and knows where to look. I found 3 out of my Soulshine 7 ring and amulets in VR10 zone chests. I am pretty sure that is the best way to get them and they don't appear to drop from actually killing anything.It does require opening hundreds of chest however. There are some other options though such as an Frost Wrath of the Imperium Staff+ Rings that you can buy after some AP farming pvp, even 3 non set jewels with spell/weapon power glyphs will help you a lot for dps.

Also 36% crit for a sorc dps seems extremely low. Do you have Inner light slotted. That skill is not optional for magicka based dps.

Beesting

I got a few v10 soulshine rings from the scorpion in craglorn RIP,
Also a v10 neck from a dolmen chest. I suspect someone from finding them in v10 treasure map chests, because he keeps spamming wtb treasure maps for the v10 zone..

Aeratus

xaraan wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Crypt of Hearts should be pretty unaffected I'd think since it is already V12. I hate the whole "we did it" mentality, but we actually were able to do crypt 3 man back when we were v12 and it first came out - it's really not that bad. (And I've said many times I agree that some parts of the scaling were broken, not CoHs however). Now I would like having 4 people for the hard mode. But after having done crypt many times before and after patch, I'm not seeing any real change in the fights there.

COH was affected actually by patch 1.5 actually. For example the current spider daedra boss "scaled" to v12 has twice the HP that it used to have before 1.5.

weird, we haven't even felt much of a change with that fight. It's not taking twice as long for us or anything. I guess it could be a little tougher, and we just didn't notice anything drastic.

Actually, my above post wasn't correct. The HP of the Spider Daedra only increased by 50%, not doubled.

I looked at some old videos of COH and here is how the boss HPs compare:

Ibelgest (first miniboss)
- Original HP (prior to 1.5): 44k HP
- Current amount at v12 scale (1.5.6): 98k HP

Spider Daedra boss
- Original HP (prior to 1.5): 95k HP
- Current amount at v12 scale (1.5.6):140k HP

spoqster

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

I do not know if this is just me.

But ever since that dungeon scaling and pledge system has been released, some boss mobs are simply not really doable. At least not by normal players.

Some are doable, but some I find simply impossible to do ever since that new system has been released.

They are too powerful. They deal too much and too fast AoE dmg, that also keeps following. At the same time adds, that deal more damage than the boss mob, are spawned in very fast cycles... at the same time multiple people of your group get webbed, stunned or whatever in very rapid cycles - depend on someone to free them in time - while adds and AoE-Damage follow you around.

In short - it is only a rat race. So much dmg has been dealt, that the group wipes within 2 minutes... maybe we last 5 minutes but then we did not do much dmg to boss, because we were busy killing adds that do even more dmg than the boss.

As I wrote before, some are doable, but some are just insane...

Is this supposed to remain like this or will this be fixed and balanced?

Can only speak for myself. But the current high-end content bores and frustrates me. Don't need that after a stressful day of hard work... I want fun and a real challenge not just some super-ubber-pimped boss mob that can only be done when you are some over-dressed 24/7 player.

Considering the amount of people I have seen leaving over the past weeks, I am probably not alone with that view. But as things are, I am going to join them soon and hope that the next Offline Game from Beth will be better.

It really saddens me to write this, since I had high hopes. I played many MMORPGs for many years - and really had hoped that ESO won't repeat the same mistakes...
That game is not even 1 year old... and it already frustrates at the high-end content with the very same mistakes all the others MMORPGs did over several years... that's a new record.

What level are you and your group?

They have some troubles with the scaling algorithm. The max level instances are perfectly doable, but the veteran levels in beymtween are sometimes too hard.

Also they just sslightly nerfed the hp of all bosses affected with the last patch.

xaraan

Aeratus wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Crypt of Hearts should be pretty unaffected I'd think since it is already V12. I hate the whole "we did it" mentality, but we actually were able to do crypt 3 man back when we were v12 and it first came out - it's really not that bad. (And I've said many times I agree that some parts of the scaling were broken, not CoHs however). Now I would like having 4 people for the hard mode. But after having done crypt many times before and after patch, I'm not seeing any real change in the fights there.

COH was affected actually by patch 1.5 actually. For example the current spider daedra boss "scaled" to v12 has twice the HP that it used to have before 1.5.

weird, we haven't even felt much of a change with that fight. It's not taking twice as long for us or anything. I guess it could be a little tougher, and we just didn't notice anything drastic.

Actually, my above post wasn't correct. The HP of the Spider Daedra only increased by 50%, not doubled.

I looked at some old videos of COH and here is how the boss HPs compare:

Ibelgest (first miniboss)
- Original HP (prior to 1.5): 44k HP
- Current amount at v12 scale (1.5.6): 98k HP

Spider Daedra boss
- Original HP (prior to 1.5): 95k HP
- Current amount at v12 scale (1.5.6):140k HP

Either way, interesting that their algorithm would even effect a dungeon that doesn't need to be scaled to v12.

Though my initial post I still stand by - the dungeon at v12 is very very do-able without having to be super players, even with tougher bosses.

Natjur

Vet CoH and normal CoH both scaled to V12 seem more balanced then the third boss in Spindle. I think the devs should review all the dungeons scaling and see if its working at they expect it to, but CoH (normal and Vet) are not on my list of dungeons that needs changes

Aeratus

Yeah there is something strange about their scaling algorithm.

Compared to the original native v12 amounts, the final boss of COH only gained a little (like around 10-15k HP) whereas the spider daedra boss gained about 45k HP.

Also, in the current vet spindle, the praxis boss has two adds that have 95k HP (100k before most recent patch). This is as much HP as a boss itself!

Hypertionb14_ESO

in my experience COH is no harder than it ever was.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

I also just heard from one of my guildies that some bosses tend also to "bug" after wiping a few times.
That caused the multiple webbings. So I wasn't the only one experiencing it...
The only way to fix it is to leave dungeon, abandon pledge and restarting it :-/
Oh fun...

As for the healing - I agree. Then again, when the healer gets under attack, someone has to keep the healer & warrior alive. Or when the healer gets webbed, one of us has to get the healer out of there - and in the meanwhile someone has to heal my arse or that of the tank who keeps the spider-daedra busy.

All I can say is, that the spider daedra was really annoying - especially after the multiple webbing started (which is a bug according some other players) and also the adds dealing more far more dmg than the boss itself...

But as said before, next time I get around doing this pledge or dungeon - I will capture it... maybe it happens again.

Subtomik

On my templar I heal, tank or DPS any single one of these dungeons with 0 problems.

Thats on the same character without having to respec and a blue crappy tanking set and I dont even have a DPS set and I max out at like 650-700 DPS on a good day lol.

Stop trying to get any and all content nerfed, instead try maybe improving to the level of the content.

Sorry this isnt a single player game, do to balancing reasons everything cant just be given to you, there has to be a better reward for those who show dedication and are willing to adapt.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

Subtomik wrote: »

Sorry this isnt a single player game, do to balancing reasons everything cant just be given to you, there has to be a better reward for those who show dedication and are willing to adapt.

What do you consider dedication?
24/7 playing and becoming a templar stat/gear clone? I had no idea that this was Star Trek and we got on a Borg Hive... but wait, even they have more diversity...

Subtomik

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

What do you consider dedication?
24/7 playing and becoming a templar stat/gear clone? I had no idea that this was Star Trek and we got on a Borg Hive... but wait, even they have more diversity...

I consider taking the time to learn basic mechanics, like "dont stand in the red" dedication.

I dont play 24/7, I only know 1 other templar who uses the healing gear I use, I dps in that gear as well, and I have a crappy blue tank set.


My point was with my very average tanking and subpar DPS we still have no problem doing these.

This game is not hard.

Armitas

One way to do the spider is to all stand in the center circle where the boss is at the start of the fight. If you look at the circle like a compass each person takes a position, North South East and West. This way if someone gets a red circle it won't hit everyone at once, and you will know who has it. Whoever has it runs around in a circle outside the central circle. As soon as the spider adds come out everyone gets together and blenders them and moves back. From those positions you should be able to see the cocoons and if you don't have vent/ts you can just type cocoon if your cocooned. Easy to type because you can't do anything else.

CoH is just one big mechanic fight.

Teargrants

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

As for the healing - I agree. Then again, when the healer gets under attack, someone has to keep the healer & warrior alive. Or when the healer gets webbed, one of us has to get the healer out of there - and in the meanwhile someone has to heal my arse or that of the tank who keeps the spider-daedra busy.

If the healer is "under attack" to the point of needing heals from other ppl, then one of three things is happening. Either the dps'rs aren't dps'ing enough and just utterly failing at add control, the tank is failing at taunting, or everyone is standing in red and draining the healer's resources to the point where he can't heal anymore.

It takes about 2 seconds to get people out of the web, please don't tell me you can't last through that.

Qyrk

Armitas wrote: »

One way to do the spider is to all NOT stand in the center circle where the boss is at the start of the fight. If you look at the circle like a compass each person takes a position, North South East and West.

fixed that one for ya

For OP: CoH is not hard at all. Follow the mechanics. Pre and post dungeon scaling, a lot of our guild members have cleared it (even the vet pledges today) - its one of the dungeons where it is actually relatively easy when all people are on the same page. Either you need to be more comfortable with the mechanics and get better group members. Get a sorc - it will help a ton with adds by negating them

Also if your dps are not using it, Expert Hunter and its morphs will help a TON

xaraan

There are probably better videos out there, where the players aren't goofing around as much, but here is our 3 man run. You may be able to pick up some tactics from the callouts and fights: http://youtu.be/MYcuw8nKyaQ

We didn't really do it as an instructional thing, so there might be better vids for that. And you can see we had plenty of deaths during the run, so it wasn't some sort of easy walk through (even though half of the time our deaths were from us doing something dumb or lazy that we could have probably avoided).

Drasn

The way we do spider boss is as follows:

1. Pair up - Tank with one DPS and Healer with the other DPS. Your new battle buddy is the person you are responsible for keeping an eye on and breaking the web if it applies to them.

2. The person who is being followed by the red circle needs to kite it away from the group.

3. When the adds spawn everyone need to group up and AOE them down.(This only takes a couple seconds.) Things that can help here if you are having trouble are: Templars drop nova for mitigation, Nightblades drop veil for mitigation, Sorcs drop Negate to stun adds DK drop banner for extra DPS on adds. Unless you are a nightblade the only AOE you should be using is impulse.

This fight is extremely easy when you are prepared and know the mechanics.

Further notes:
A good sorc set up for bars is:
Bar 1: Crushing Shock, Crystal Fragments, Critical Surge, Impulse, Inner Light
Ultimate - Flawless Dawnbreaker(never cast it, it's there for C. Shock.)
Bar 2: Mages Wrath, Crystal Fragments, Spell Symmetry, Annulent, Inner Light
Ultimate - Negate(or another ultimate worth casting.)

Rotation is simple:
Above 20%: Keep Critical Surge up as it boosts Crushing shock damage.
Crushing + Light weave until Crystal Fragments procs then use Crystal
Fragments.

Below 20%: Mages Wrath + Light weave. Crystal fragments on Proc.

Gear sets to look at:
3-Piece Soulshine: Jewelry only(2 Rings and Neck)
3/4 Piece Twilights Embrace
3/4 Piece Wise Mage(Aether)- Drops from AA
3 Piece Willows Path
3 Piece Wrath of the Imperium(Destruction Staff+2 Rings)- PVP Drops
Magnus/Seducer/Warlock/Adroitness - If you have resource issues.

Personally I run 4-Piece Aether, 4-Piece Twilight's Embrace, 3-Piece Soulshine.

Another note: Make sure your home PVP server is set to your faction's buff server(unless you have a legitimate reason for not doing this.)

Natjur

Always wondered what it would be like to have 5 Warlock, 5 Adroitness set. You would have less spell damage then other sets but could just spam and spam.

eliisra

Most bosses in VR CoH are easy, including spider. Basic and simple mechanics, not to high requirements on heal, tank and dps.

But last boss + challenge can be a pain if you dont have a great 4-man group. I often lack something(usually 1 good dps), when making a group for VR CoH, so I have to scale it down

I guess It's a matter of whether you want to decline a guildie or friend a spot, because they're not built and skilled perfectly for the job. I dislike being one of those guys, ignoring players or telling them to bugger if, so I tend to invite whoever needs and run it at VR1-3 half the time.

Still, with a good group, it's a pretty smooth fight compared to Mr Praxin Douare in Spindleclutch lol.

Armitas

Qyrk wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

One way to do the spider is to all NOT stand in the center circle where the boss is at the start of the fight. If you look at the circle like a compass each person takes a position, North South East and West.

fixed that one for ya

No I meant center. Not stacked but seperate.

Beesting

Ok dudes, i finished CoH a week ago scaled to vet 9, but the quest was bugged.
So i thought great, do it again tonight.
Five hours later i had to admit defeat
First group wiped 30 times on spider boss at scale v7, healer was v7 , group had to give up
Joined other group, 2 v4 a dps and a templar healer
Me v14 dps and a v14 tank
We wiped 4 times on the spider boss and the v14 left, then i asked a v9 friend to help, he runs multiple dungeons every day
We made it to the last boss and spent 2 hours wiping countless times.
They had to leave twice to do repairs, i had a stack of repair kits on me...

So my friend gave up after three hours, i asked another friend, he said he had spend 2 hours on the boss before the killed it. He is v14 DK

But we still could not do it, as soon ad one party member dies that is it...

So i spent 4,5 hours doing CoH vet, a daily... No thank you
I felt like at dancing class remember all the bloody steps and dodges. But what good does it do, as soon as one member died we were doomed

Edit: after a few days of thinking about it, it can be done as long as everyone knows the mechanics. I will try again next weekend.

Maotti

^ So it's much harder then when we did it some time ago? That sucks.

OrphanHelgen

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

^ So it's much harder then when we did it some time ago? That sucks.

You have 3 nord sorceress? You don't like change? :-) I understand the pact change, but... I... I...

Gilvoth

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

I do not know if this is just me.

But ever since that dungeon scaling and pledge system has been released, some boss mobs are simply not really doable. At least not by normal players.

Some are doable, but some I find simply impossible to do ever since that new system has been released.

They are too powerful. They deal too much and too fast AoE dmg, that also keeps following. At the same time adds, that deal more damage than the boss mob, are spawned in very fast cycles... at the same time multiple people of your group get webbed, stunned or whatever in very rapid cycles - depend on someone to free them in time - while adds and AoE-Damage follow you around.

In short - it is only a rat race. So much dmg has been dealt, that the group wipes within 2 minutes... maybe we last 5 minutes but then we did not do much dmg to boss, because we were busy killing adds that do even more dmg than the boss.

As I wrote before, some are doable, but some are just insane...

Is this supposed to remain like this or will this be fixed and balanced?

Can only speak for myself. But the current high-end content bores and frustrates me. Don't need that after a stressful day of hard work... I want fun and a real challenge not just some super-ubber-pimped boss mob that can only be done when you are some over-dressed 24/7 player.

Considering the amount of people I have seen leaving over the past weeks, I am probably not alone with that view. But as things are, I am going to join them soon and hope that the next Offline Game from Beth will be better.

It really saddens me to write this, since I had high hopes. I played many MMORPGs for many years - and really had hoped that ESO won't repeat the same mistakes...
That game is not even 1 year old... and it already frustrates at the high-end content with the very same mistakes all the others MMORPGs did over several years... that's a new record.

i agree with you it is way too hard bosses and way to hard add on mobbs.
its not just you, and not just the Crypt of Hearts Veteran Pledge, its almost all the veteran caves and bosses. i say "almost" because there are some that do drop at normal strength and normal hit points.
all the people i group with have said the same thing for quite a few months now.

Wolfenbelle

@Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO, I have to agree with you (the OP) on this one and am somewhat disappointed that so many people who responded here have been dismissive of your concerns. Not only dismissive, but sometimes highly condescending.

If everyone who said these dungeons are "easy" is telling the truth about their experiences, then the game has a severe problem when the range of experiences varies so widely.

I do think many of the veteran dungeons (if not all), Arena and trials are overly difficult. The difficulty is even greater when you have to face a boss and its adds in a very confined space such as I did with a group on Friday. It was a small room with some kind of columns and levers in the center, and cluttered with rocks and stuff to get stuck on. The boss kept flooding the air with poison.

Which brings up another problem with many of these dungeons that bothers me. Almost all fights in them are melee-based. They are AoE and smash-mouthed melee, which leaves little use for a bow and other ranged capabilities. Range is, at best, situational and possibly good for fight starters only.

Except for trials, groups are indeed confined only to four people, one of whom must be dedicated to healing. So really only three people are doing damage against often overwhelming numbers of adds, plus the enemy AoE, plus the boss itself getting into the fight. Often there's even more than one enemy healer.

I'm a vr14 Imperial Templar DPS (bow + 2-handed sword) who can approach nearly 50k total damage in some fights (about 1600k sustained average DPS for a 30 minute fight), but so far I haven't been in a group that has beaten even one veteran dungeon or the arena. (I did a trial only once, but not with this build, so who knows if it would be a better experience the second time around.) I haven't done that 1600k sustained average DPS in every fight, but am capable of it. Problem is, the fight is usually over before there's a chance to do much of anything, let alone high sustained damage.

So far in every veteran dungeon I've tried, people have gotten frustrated after trying time and time again to beat even the first boss, and they give up.

Another problem is the reward at the end is often not worth it even if you do manage to complete the dungeon. Those fancy helms and shoulder pieces are nice, but to get one that fits your build you would have to run the dungeons over and over again. But heck, if I ever am in a group that manages to beat a dungeon, the idea of doing it all over again is just not appealing. So the OP has a very valid point, in my opinion.