REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF

Armitas

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

DKs currently have the highest potential damage output and the best defense. They are not OP though...

Referenced number and source please.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There are three destruction staves, and a bow. Pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying. You have bonuses to fire damage for Christ's sake.

So the solution is to just not use class damagers? That is not a solution that is a bad excuse.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I find it extremely telling the amount of DK that re-roll with 1 skill made sensible.
No... I win = No Point ...I guess

Really? Whats the count at?

Night-claw

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cas; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Well nerfed to the ground, taking that off my skill bar. Time to go level a NB.

Nightblade might be a bit too complex for you after playing a facerolling DK.

simple.

Sypher

This won't change anything for smaller encounters. It'll be a little harder to tank huge numbers though, which is fine. I would have preferred if they doubled the cost if spammed, that would actually have better results.

My only request, for the love of God, make the scales dissapear after the 4 projectile limit is reached, maybe even throw in an audio que. Don't let the scale animation stay up while the limit is reached.

I'm an avid DK player even though I intend on playing all the classes. But I will say this..

This nerf on RS will only make the amount of viable builds for DKs smaller. Do not expect an out pour of varied builds. I already have a pretty good idea of the build Dk's will be pushed to. It involves the typical crushing shock rotation (so original, non class skills for the win ^.^)

I'm eager to see the other changes made to other skills and classes.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Atropos wrote: »

I can't believe the amount of whining and overreaction in response to the Reflective Scales balance adjustment.

1) Scales was/is extremely powerful, possibly the most powerful single non-ultimate ability in the game.

2) Unlimited reflects over 4 seconds at a reasonably low Magicka cost was absolutely unreasonable.

3) Being able to reflect 4 projectiles with a single ability activation is still going to be extremely powerful.

4) It's still more effective than the sword/shield version (and doesn't require a certain weapon type).

5) YES, this will change the meta, so what, learn to adapt. Hopefully we'll start seeing more than 1-2 different DK builds in Cyrodiil.

Yeah, I get it, I don't play a DK. Go ahead and flame me for not being sympathetic to the fact that you're losing your win button. I don't see how people can rationally and objectively say this change is bad for the game, though.

They still won't have it as bad as nightblades did at our worst. All these DKs that want to roll a nightblade because they think we are so OP. The nighblade class take a bit of skill to actually play effectively and if it didn't I suspect you DKs would already be playing one.

eventide03b14a_ESO

GunemCleric wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, please remember that many of our abilities are getting reworked for Update 6, so please give this a try on the PTS once it's available to see how it feels with all the other changes. Thanks!

it is good to know that the ONE and ONLY deterrent that was preventing ESO from fully becoming to Elder Bows Online is being removed.

I realize that wars throughout history had mobs of bowmen running at top speed into battle...wait, let me try again...i realize that all all previous medieval-setting games encouraged every class to use bows...no, try again ...every Elder Scrolls game required bows...no, no....this game only has bows...no, still not right.

Why exactly are bows the most useful and powerful weapon? There really is no reason to use anything else, and maximizing a build for Bow means that class skills become nearly useless (since == stam/weapon damge, and Class == mag/spell damage), especially when there will be ZERO deterrence (btw, i know you and most other do not care, but reflect NEVER has been 100% reflect, little disappointed you actually made than claim when it can be disproved in a few minutes). Bows do more damage than siege, faster than any other range attack and more damage than any range attack, even without the 100% debuff exploit they more deadly than any other weapon. Most of the armors in the game are actually the designs that mitigate arrow damage btw.

Why is this suddenly to become Elder Bows Online, why is ZOS not doing something to encourage class skills? Why nerf an aspect of a class that was actually encouraging others to use their class skills (deadric mines, endless fury,...) rather than completely give up and become bow users?

i got this game because of up close and personal battles (chains are now useless as everything blocks them, no reason for players to come into range now), you know those sword things that have become semi useless against bow users.

may as well remove reflect completely as when everyone has bows the next thread will be how op DKs are because they can reflect 4 arrows.

Been a DK since early access (not the one of the fotw DKs) never complained about the VAST number of reasonable nerfs already done to DK, but this will be the one that ruins the class, only useful skill left in open field PvP. Just going to be DKs spamming claws and hoping that everyone gets stuck, though the stam build bow users will laugh as they roll away with their huge stam pools while they pepper the useless DK, assuming there is a such thing as DK then.

Even counter siege is barely being used, who needs oil now when everyone can stand above,target, and shoot arrows for significantly more damage. It really sounds like ZOS is not playing DKs (as DKs, not merely choosing the class and then using weapons), possibly not playing PvP at all since already strong bows were buffed in last release.

I've gone ahead and redacted everything in your post. To save everyone else the time I've summed up what you said:

Kwas

My negate monkey smiles at all the upset DK's. Dem tears...

On a more serious note, that change does seem a bit drastic ...

eventide03b14a_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Atropos wrote: »

I can't believe the amount of whining and overreaction in response to the Reflective Scales balance adjustment.

But you could understand all the whining and overreaction that has happened everyday since launch about OP DKs and their talons, inhale, scales, whips, standards, battle roar, etc.?

Because that was all rational objective analysis, right?

Even with your so called "nerfs" you remain the strongest class, not just in PvP but in the game. That's pretty telling. Meanwhile the nightblade still has bugs related to Shadow Cloak and the poor sorcerers have been nerfed into the ground.

GunemCleric

Should point out that 90% of the anti-DK posters here have zero clue about how DK skills work. Seriously, if a stam build DK is killing you with his whip then you need to fix your build because you need to l2p and learn how damage actually works, there is no stam build DK doing serious damage with his whip. Personally tired of these boogeymen DK posts. Really one skill left that prevents these no-talent players from standing on the wall spamming a single button for the win.

And if you can actually send enough arrows and damage that the reflect kills you (even with 25%), well that cannot possibly mean you are OP, right?

Though I just now thought of a way to make use of this. I am curious if anyone is interested in making a bow wielding DK guild/group to get revenge on all of these no-talent players. It will be against the rules to use active DK abilities (including GDB), just 1-2 hour a night of nothing but Bows and only a DK healer (has to be DK healer cause worst heals in the game). I bet we will see OP DK post because DKs should not be allowed to use bows, but only 4 arrows minute and 1 minute cool down. And OP DK healers will not be able to use healing springs either.

Serious about the DK bow group, whisper or message me if interested in organizing some hard-core revenge with state rules.

Soulac

DK´s be like

GunemCleric

Soulac wrote: »

DK´s be like

^actually that is everyone else when they cannot faceroll a DK with their bow. This is a thread about nerfing the DK skills again after all, not DKs starting a thread about having skills nerfed.

pmn100b16_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

This is a tank by any MMO standard. ^

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

This is not a tank. ^

So please stop using the term 'tank class' to justify your survivability skills. There are no tanks in cryodiil, just classes with different names that need some semblance of balance.

I take it you're a light armour wearing DK? (99% of DKs are), you tell us what your typical dps is in melee combat. What do you dish out with talons/standard/flame whip? I bet its pitiful right? Lets not pretend DKs do not have very good damage output, both AoE and single target with the current LA wearing DK meta. After all, that's why you charge into mass groups of people right, just to see how long you survive, not actually kill anyone. Please.

I said earlier in this thread that something had to give. I preferred it would be your damage output, but they've chosen the survivability route. I expect they've got the stats to justify that approach.

I am using Tank, as in the game you are playing now. ESO, not other games where a tank is just a person in heavy armor. We are playing ESO, not other MMO's. Please stop using other games to justify your definition of Tank.

I have about 5 different builds that I use depending on the circumstances. That includes light and heavy armor builds. Source for poll showing that 99% of DKs are in light armor?

If people want to say that DK's have "massive DPS" while taking 10 people on then lets here their dps. After all they are making the claim let them show the evidence. You say our output is too high so tell us what our output is.

I jump into large groups of people to start a push and end the pew pew stand off. I stand at the front line and wait for an opportunity and I take it. I don't throw myself into a group of good players, I throw myself into the weakest link. I do so at the risk of never being able to get rezed at that location and having to ride back. I do it because that is the best role I can fulfill for my alliance which includes you if you are EP. I keep the damage off you and our healers so that you can live and complain about here on the forums.

Please now you're just back tracking. The term tank didn't begin its existence 7 months ago with eso. When people are bandying around the term tank, they mean exactly the type of tank you see in near all other popular MMOs, high damage mitigating, low damage output, supplemented by a healer to stay alive. The DK in ESO isn't a tank class at all, its practically a dps class with insane survivability, but it suits your argument to call them a tank.

So you have 5 different builds, you're in a prime position then to share with us all your different levels of dps. But you won't because again that won't suit your argument that they're a tank class, because the figures will be far too high.

"You dont need a healer, you don't need dpser's, you don't even have to wear any armour. The DK, no ordinary tank, but an ESO tank."

Soulac

GunemCleric wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DK´s be like

^actually that is everyone else when they cannot faceroll a DK with their bow. This is a thread about nerfing the DK skills again after all, not DKs starting a thread about having skills nerfed.

^actually this whole thread here is funny as hell.
I don´t care about facerolling DKs, Bow users or the mentioned nerf, but the reaction in this thread is just awesome.
And its not everyone else with a bow crying around atm, cause they got what they want and they probably look like that:

Armitas

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

This is a tank by any MMO standard. ^

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

This is not a tank. ^

So please stop using the term 'tank class' to justify your survivability skills. There are no tanks in cryodiil, just classes with different names that need some semblance of balance.

I take it you're a light armour wearing DK? (99% of DKs are), you tell us what your typical dps is in melee combat. What do you dish out with talons/standard/flame whip? I bet its pitiful right? Lets not pretend DKs do not have very good damage output, both AoE and single target with the current LA wearing DK meta. After all, that's why you charge into mass groups of people right, just to see how long you survive, not actually kill anyone. Please.

I said earlier in this thread that something had to give. I preferred it would be your damage output, but they've chosen the survivability route. I expect they've got the stats to justify that approach.

I am using Tank, as in the game you are playing now. ESO, not other games where a tank is just a person in heavy armor. We are playing ESO, not other MMO's. Please stop using other games to justify your definition of Tank.

I have about 5 different builds that I use depending on the circumstances. That includes light and heavy armor builds. Source for poll showing that 99% of DKs are in light armor?

If people want to say that DK's have "massive DPS" while taking 10 people on then lets here their dps. After all they are making the claim let them show the evidence. You say our output is too high so tell us what our output is.

I jump into large groups of people to start a push and end the pew pew stand off. I stand at the front line and wait for an opportunity and I take it. I don't throw myself into a group of good players, I throw myself into the weakest link. I do so at the risk of never being able to get rezed at that location and having to ride back. I do it because that is the best role I can fulfill for my alliance which includes you if you are EP. I keep the damage off you and our healers so that you can live and complain about here on the forums.

Please now you're just back tracking. The term tank didn't begin its existence 7 months ago with eso. When people are bandying around the term tank, they mean exactly the type of tank you see in near all other popular MMOs, high damage mitigating, low damage output, supplemented by a healer to stay alive. The DK in ESO isn't a tank class at all, its practically a dps class with insane survivability, but it suits your argument to call them a tank.

So you have 5 different builds, you're in a prime position then to share with us all your different levels of dps. But you won't because again that won't suit your argument that they're a tank class, because the figures will be far too high.

"You dont need a healer, you don't need dpser's, you don't even have to wear any armour. The DK, no ordinary tank, but an ESO tank."

There are essential qualities of tank and there are inessential qualities of tank. I listed the essential qualites which persist through all games and you are fixated on the inessential qualities derived from other games.

You say they have high output. What is it? You make the claim, you carry the burden.

Gooey

Lets take a moment of silence for our class nearing its final hour... Zos, do you plan to delete this class by any chance?

Also, LF grind partner.

Rook_Master

Update Six

Dragonknight Skills

•Reflective Scales: The animation for this skill has been updated. In addition to the flappy-flap, a single teardrop will be shown streaming down the DKs face upon activation. If the 4-projectile limit is reached, many tears will be shown streaming down their face.

GunemCleric

Soulac wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DK´s be like

^actually that is everyone else when they cannot faceroll a DK with their bow. This is a thread about nerfing the DK skills again after all, not DKs starting a thread about having skills nerfed.

^actually this whole thread here is funny as hell.
I don´t care about facerolling DKs, Bow users or the mentioned nerf, but the reaction in this thread is just awesome.
And its not everyone else with a bow crying around atm, cause they got what they want and they probably look like that:

true, but there is one thing that came out of this...all of the QQ and the whys behind the QQ have inspired with an idea to make possibly the most annoying, best DK griefing build imaginable. Low on damage, but nearly indestructible (not requiring reflect) and cannot be ignored, maybe a true PvP tank, which would allow a team to do far more damage...got to work on it though

Gorthax

Erlex wrote: »

I love how nearly everyone picks out the fact that 1 ability is being changed, and entirely ignores that nearly every other freaking ability in the entire game is being changed at the same time. Raging about broken class and rerolling before you even see patch notes is just plain ignorant.

This!

Sypher

Every Nerf is focused on the light armor magicka users. Completely butchering the heavy/medium armor DKs (I feel for you guys)

Since this will only really affect you in out numbered situations, what other time would be better to bust out the Vampire Destro Staff Light Armor DK!

The change coming to make spell damage affect destruction staffs will make this an even easier choice than before!

If you guys thought there was too many vampire DK's using destro in Cyrodiil.. you're in for a big surprise xD

With the champion system though, my NB, Sorc, and Templar will all be ready if I get too bored of DK.

GunemCleric

Gorthax wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

I love how nearly everyone picks out the fact that 1 ability is being changed, and entirely ignores that nearly every other freaking ability in the entire game is being changed at the same time. Raging about broken class and rerolling before you even see patch notes is just plain ignorant.

This!

There are broken skills (until this final straw I felt sorry for NBs), but the DKs have suffered more nerfs (and yes most were reasonable) than any other class, all from the company (ZOS) that *claimed* (lied) they wanted the DK to "still feel powerful" to play. The vast majority of DKs have long since moved to weapon skills, most of the DK skills are useless in PvP as is. All other classes have a choice to play as thier class or a weapon class, DKs have nearly lost that choice to remain competitive.

Gorthax

GunemCleric wrote: »

Should point out that 90% of the anti-DK posters here have zero clue about how DK skills work. Seriously, if a stam build DK is killing you with his whip then you need to fix your build because you need to l2p and learn how damage actually works, there is no stam build DK doing serious damage with his whip. Personally tired of these boogeymen DK posts. Really one skill left that prevents these no-talent players from standing on the wall spamming a single button for the win.

And if you can actually send enough arrows and damage that the reflect kills you (even with 25%), well that cannot possibly mean you are OP, right?

Though I just now thought of a way to make use of this. I am curious if anyone is interested in making a bow wielding DK guild/group to get revenge on all of these no-talent players. It will be against the rules to use active DK abilities (including GDB), just 1-2 hour a night of nothing but Bows and only a DK healer (has to be DK healer cause worst heals in the game). I bet we will see OP DK post because DKs should not be allowed to use bows, but only 4 arrows minute and 1 minute cool down. And OP DK healers will not be able to use healing springs either.

Serious about the DK bow group, whisper or message me if interested in organizing some hard-core revenge with state rules.

cry much lol its sad you cant even admit that reflecting SO MUCH of the stuff in this game INFINITELY is not some how OP......is that your fault? No! It is ZoS fault for never fixing what should and shouldnt be reflected and instead they just let it get out of hand and here we are today. So who do you blame? The people that wanted this to be balanced or ZoS for not doing what should have been done and correcting things that should NOT have been reflected...but go ahead, take out your frustration It is only natural let me know how the bow goes for you, im sure you will get plenty of kills with it regardless of the class you choose :P

Juraigr

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Every Nerf is focused on the light armor magicka users. Completely butchering the heavy/medium armor DKs (I feel for you guys)

Since this will only really affect you in out numbered situations, what other time would be better to bust out the Vampire Destro Staff Light Armor DK!

The change coming to make spell damage affect destruction staffs will make this an even easier choice than before!

If you guys thought there was too many vampire DK's using destro in Cyrodiil.. you're in for a big surprise xD

With the champion system though, my NB, Sorc, and Templar will all be ready if I get too bored of DK.

U said it sypher lol good I levelled vamp

GunemCleric

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Every Nerf is focused on the light armor magicka users. Completely butchering the heavy/medium armor DKs (I feel for you guys)

Since this will only really affect you in out numbered situations, what other time would be better to bust out the Vampire Destro Staff Light Armor DK!

The change coming to make spell damage affect destruction staffs will make this an even easier choice than before!

If you guys thought there was too many vampire DK's using destro in Cyrodiil.. you're in for a big surprise xD

With the champion system though, my NB, Sorc, and Templar will all be ready if I get too bored of DK.

Hmmm, sort of sounds like a Darkelf, Vamp, Destro/Resto. looking forward to it and the QQ. But still have an idea for Stam DKs for even more QQ

eventide03b14a_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There are three destruction staves, and a bow. Pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying. You have bonuses to fire damage for Christ's sake.

So the solution is to just not use class damagers? That is not a solution that is a bad excuse.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I keep hearing all this QQ from DKs. Waaahh we don't have ranged....waaaaahh. You have two weapon slots, you have 5 skills per slot, you can pick up a fire destruction staff and put a couple ranged abilities on it. Nobody said you can't also use your class abilities at the same time. You even have bonus damage to fire. I just don't get all the complaining from the strongest class in PvP. Not only do you guys not admit that your OP you actively try to defend that your not by making up disadvantages that don't exist. You guys are the Fox News of ESO.

GunemCleric wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, please remember that many of our abilities are getting reworked for Update 6, so please give this a try on the PTS once it's available to see how it feels with all the other changes. Thanks!

it is good to know that the ONE and ONLY deterrent that was preventing ESO from fully becoming to Elder Bows Online is being removed.

I realize that wars throughout history had mobs of bowmen running at top speed into battle...wait, let me try again...i realize that all all previous medieval-setting games encouraged every class to use bows...no, try again ...every Elder Scrolls game required bows...no, no....this game only has bows...no, still not right.

Why exactly are bows the most useful and powerful weapon? There really is no reason to use anything else, and maximizing a build for Bow means that class skills become nearly useless (since == stam/weapon damge, and Class == mag/spell damage), especially when there will be ZERO deterrence (btw, i know you and most other do not care, but reflect NEVER has been 100% reflect, little disappointed you actually made than claim when it can be disproved in a few minutes). Bows do more damage than siege, faster than any other range attack and more damage than any range attack, even without the 100% debuff exploit they more deadly than any other weapon. Most of the armors in the game are actually the designs that mitigate arrow damage btw.

Why is this suddenly to become Elder Bows Online, why is ZOS not doing something to encourage class skills? Why nerf an aspect of a class that was actually encouraging others to use their class skills (deadric mines, endless fury,...) rather than completely give up and become bow users?

i got this game because of up close and personal battles (chains are now useless as everything blocks them, no reason for players to come into range now), you know those sword things that have become semi useless against bow users.

may as well remove reflect completely as when everyone has bows the next thread will be how op DKs are because they can reflect 4 arrows.

Been a DK since early access (not the one of the fotw DKs) never complained about the VAST number of reasonable nerfs already done to DK, but this will be the one that ruins the class, only useful skill left in open field PvP. Just going to be DKs spamming claws and hoping that everyone gets stuck, though the stam build bow users will laugh as they roll away with their huge stam pools while they pepper the useless DK, assuming there is a such thing as DK then.

Even counter siege is barely being used, who needs oil now when everyone can stand above,target, and shoot arrows for significantly more damage. It really sounds like ZOS is not playing DKs (as DKs, not merely choosing the class and then using weapons), possibly not playing PvP at all since already strong bows were buffed in last release.

I've gone ahead and redacted everything in your post. To save everyone else the time I've summed up what you said:

[...]/quote]
[...]

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote and response]

olsborg

Great nerf for reflective scales if you ask me, I bet all the dks feel the pain tho, but join the club. Looking forward to 1.6

Armitas

GunemCleric wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

DK´s be like

^actually that is everyone else when they cannot faceroll a DK with their bow. This is a thread about nerfing the DK skills again after all, not DKs starting a thread about having skills nerfed.

^actually this whole thread here is funny as hell.
I don´t care about facerolling DKs, Bow users or the mentioned nerf, but the reaction in this thread is just awesome.
And its not everyone else with a bow crying around atm, cause they got what they want and they probably look like that:

true, but there is one thing that came out of this...all of the QQ and the whys behind the QQ have inspired with an idea to make possibly the most annoying, best DK griefing build imaginable. Low on damage, but nearly indestructible (not requiring reflect) and cannot be ignored, maybe a true PvP tank, which would allow a team to do far more damage...got to work on it though

Yep this is where it gets dangerous. It's those often over looked corners of the game where new discoveries are found. Force someone into that corner and who knows what mischief they will find there.

Gorthax

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There are three destruction staves, and a bow. Pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying. You have bonuses to fire damage for Christ's sake.

So the solution is to just not use class damagers? That is not a solution that is a bad excuse.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I keep hearing all this QQ from DKs. Waaahh we don't have ranged....waaaaahh. You have two weapon slots, you have 5 skills per slot, you can pick up a fire destruction staff and put a couple ranged abilities on it. Nobody said you can't also use your class abilities at the same time. You even have bonus damage to fire. I just don't get all the complaining from the strongest class in PvP. Not only do you guys not admit that your OP you actively try to defend that your not by making up disadvantages that don't exist. You guys are the Fox News of ESO.

GunemCleric wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, please remember that many of our abilities are getting reworked for Update 6, so please give this a try on the PTS once it's available to see how it feels with all the other changes. Thanks!

it is good to know that the ONE and ONLY deterrent that was preventing ESO from fully becoming to Elder Bows Online is being removed.

I realize that wars throughout history had mobs of bowmen running at top speed into battle...wait, let me try again...i realize that all all previous medieval-setting games encouraged every class to use bows...no, try again ...every Elder Scrolls game required bows...no, no....this game only has bows...no, still not right.

Why exactly are bows the most useful and powerful weapon? There really is no reason to use anything else, and maximizing a build for Bow means that class skills become nearly useless (since == stam/weapon damge, and Class == mag/spell damage), especially when there will be ZERO deterrence (btw, i know you and most other do not care, but reflect NEVER has been 100% reflect, little disappointed you actually made than claim when it can be disproved in a few minutes). Bows do more damage than siege, faster than any other range attack and more damage than any range attack, even without the 100% debuff exploit they more deadly than any other weapon. Most of the armors in the game are actually the designs that mitigate arrow damage btw.

Why is this suddenly to become Elder Bows Online, why is ZOS not doing something to encourage class skills? Why nerf an aspect of a class that was actually encouraging others to use their class skills (deadric mines, endless fury,...) rather than completely give up and become bow users?

i got this game because of up close and personal battles (chains are now useless as everything blocks them, no reason for players to come into range now), you know those sword things that have become semi useless against bow users.

may as well remove reflect completely as when everyone has bows the next thread will be how op DKs are because they can reflect 4 arrows.

Been a DK since early access (not the one of the fotw DKs) never complained about the VAST number of reasonable nerfs already done to DK, but this will be the one that ruins the class, only useful skill left in open field PvP. Just going to be DKs spamming claws and hoping that everyone gets stuck, though the stam build bow users will laugh as they roll away with their huge stam pools while they pepper the useless DK, assuming there is a such thing as DK then.

Even counter siege is barely being used, who needs oil now when everyone can stand above,target, and shoot arrows for significantly more damage. It really sounds like ZOS is not playing DKs (as DKs, not merely choosing the class and then using weapons), possibly not playing PvP at all since already strong bows were buffed in last release.

I've gone ahead and redacted everything in your post. To save everyone else the time I've summed up what you said:

[...]

Like I said, they refuse to admit that RS was broken beyond broke lol reflecting so many of the skills in this game (even ultimates for christ sake) all while holding their shield up and block casting shield charge --> talon --> whip --> whatever was needed next depending on what the opponent did after that(usually pop RS again and repeat). All while having 4 seconds of safety from damn near everything except heavy attack from lightning staff and resto staffs. But, hey, its not OP we all need to L2P. Take away block casting and watch everyone cry. Then everyone can cry as a community!!! well those who use it anyways.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

GunemCleric

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There are three destruction staves, and a bow. Pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying. You have bonuses to fire damage for Christ's sake.

So the solution is to just not use class damagers? That is not a solution that is a bad excuse.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I keep hearing all this QQ from DKs. Waaahh we don't have ranged....waaaaahh. You have two weapon slots, you have 5 skills per slot, you can pick up a fire destruction staff and put a couple ranged abilities on it. Nobody said you can't also use your class abilities at the same time. You even have bonus damage to fire. I just don't get all the complaining from the strongest class in PvP. Not only do you guys not admit that your OP you actively try to defend that your not by making up disadvantages that don't exist. You guys are the Fox News of ESO.

GunemCleric wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, please remember that many of our abilities are getting reworked for Update 6, so please give this a try on the PTS once it's available to see how it feels with all the other changes. Thanks!

it is good to know that the ONE and ONLY deterrent that was preventing ESO from fully becoming to Elder Bows Online is being removed.

I realize that wars throughout history had mobs of bowmen running at top speed into battle...wait, let me try again...i realize that all all previous medieval-setting games encouraged every class to use bows...no, try again ...every Elder Scrolls game required bows...no, no....this game only has bows...no, still not right.

Why exactly are bows the most useful and powerful weapon? There really is no reason to use anything else, and maximizing a build for Bow means that class skills become nearly useless (since == stam/weapon damge, and Class == mag/spell damage), especially when there will be ZERO deterrence (btw, i know you and most other do not care, but reflect NEVER has been 100% reflect, little disappointed you actually made than claim when it can be disproved in a few minutes). Bows do more damage than siege, faster than any other range attack and more damage than any range attack, even without the 100% debuff exploit they more deadly than any other weapon. Most of the armors in the game are actually the designs that mitigate arrow damage btw.

Why is this suddenly to become Elder Bows Online, why is ZOS not doing something to encourage class skills? Why nerf an aspect of a class that was actually encouraging others to use their class skills (deadric mines, endless fury,...) rather than completely give up and become bow users?

i got this game because of up close and personal battles (chains are now useless as everything blocks them, no reason for players to come into range now), you know those sword things that have become semi useless against bow users.

may as well remove reflect completely as when everyone has bows the next thread will be how op DKs are because they can reflect 4 arrows.

Been a DK since early access (not the one of the fotw DKs) never complained about the VAST number of reasonable nerfs already done to DK, but this will be the one that ruins the class, only useful skill left in open field PvP. Just going to be DKs spamming claws and hoping that everyone gets stuck, though the stam build bow users will laugh as they roll away with their huge stam pools while they pepper the useless DK, assuming there is a such thing as DK then.

Even counter siege is barely being used, who needs oil now when everyone can stand above,target, and shoot arrows for significantly more damage. It really sounds like ZOS is not playing DKs (as DKs, not merely choosing the class and then using weapons), possibly not playing PvP at all since already strong bows were buffed in last release.

I've gone ahead and redacted everything in your post. To save everyone else the time I've summed up what you said:

[...]

Wait, we have bonus fire damage? Where is this at? Ohhh, you mean you never read patch notes from a long time ago. Another attempt by someone without a clue to claim DKs are OP.

I had my DK since early access, rolled another just to play a min/max. I have seen each and every nerf to DK. You have no clue, go play a DK if you think they are soooo powerful. Everyone who claims they are OP should try to play one for real

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Armitas

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There are three destruction staves, and a bow. Pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying. You have bonuses to fire damage for Christ's sake.

So the solution is to just not use class damagers? That is not a solution that is a bad excuse.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I keep hearing all this QQ from DKs. Waaahh we don't have ranged....waaaaahh. You have two weapon slots, you have 5 skills per slot, you can pick up a fire destruction staff and put a couple ranged abilities on it. Nobody said you can't also use your class abilities at the same time. You even have bonus damage to fire. I just don't get all the complaining from the strongest class in PvP. Not only do you guys not admit that your OP you actively try to defend that your not by making up disadvantages that don't exist. You guys are the Fox News of ESO.

Really? How do you use a 5 meter class damager from 28meters away? Whats the trick that lets me do that?

Soulac

GunemCleric wrote: »

true, but there is one thing that came out of this...all of the QQ and the whys behind the QQ have inspired with an idea to make possibly the most annoying, best DK griefing build imaginable. Low on damage, but nearly indestructible (not requiring reflect) and cannot be ignored, maybe a true PvP tank, which would allow a team to do far more damage...got to work on it though

Well if i would see something like that I would just ignore u while you´re following me like a pet.
If you don´t run Immovable u could get a free fear too... DKs love fear.

What do you expect from a full tank build without any real dmg? Ofc noobs will attack and trying to kill you, but mostly they will just ignore u and killing other players first.

I hope every DK will switch to a true PvP Tank, would be funny too see.


PS: btw if more ppl run stamina templar/DK in 1vX u will see a new QQ-Thread in a couple of weeks. Already brought popcorn for that.

eventide03b14a_ESO

GunemCleric wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There are three destruction staves, and a bow. Pick up a ranged weapon and stop crying. You have bonuses to fire damage for Christ's sake.

So the solution is to just not use class damagers? That is not a solution that is a bad excuse.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I keep hearing all this QQ from DKs. Waaahh we don't have ranged....waaaaahh. You have two weapon slots, you have 5 skills per slot, you can pick up a fire destruction staff and put a couple ranged abilities on it. Nobody said you can't also use your class abilities at the same time. You even have bonus damage to fire. I just don't get all the complaining from the strongest class in PvP. Not only do you guys not admit that your OP you actively try to defend that your not by making up disadvantages that don't exist. You guys are the Fox News of ESO.

GunemCleric wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

GunemCleric wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, please remember that many of our abilities are getting reworked for Update 6, so please give this a try on the PTS once it's available to see how it feels with all the other changes. Thanks!

it is good to know that the ONE and ONLY deterrent that was preventing ESO from fully becoming to Elder Bows Online is being removed.

I realize that wars throughout history had mobs of bowmen running at top speed into battle...wait, let me try again...i realize that all all previous medieval-setting games encouraged every class to use bows...no, try again ...every Elder Scrolls game required bows...no, no....this game only has bows...no, still not right.

Why exactly are bows the most useful and powerful weapon? There really is no reason to use anything else, and maximizing a build for Bow means that class skills become nearly useless (since == stam/weapon damge, and Class == mag/spell damage), especially when there will be ZERO deterrence (btw, i know you and most other do not care, but reflect NEVER has been 100% reflect, little disappointed you actually made than claim when it can be disproved in a few minutes). Bows do more damage than siege, faster than any other range attack and more damage than any range attack, even without the 100% debuff exploit they more deadly than any other weapon. Most of the armors in the game are actually the designs that mitigate arrow damage btw.

Why is this suddenly to become Elder Bows Online, why is ZOS not doing something to encourage class skills? Why nerf an aspect of a class that was actually encouraging others to use their class skills (deadric mines, endless fury,...) rather than completely give up and become bow users?

i got this game because of up close and personal battles (chains are now useless as everything blocks them, no reason for players to come into range now), you know those sword things that have become semi useless against bow users.

may as well remove reflect completely as when everyone has bows the next thread will be how op DKs are because they can reflect 4 arrows.

Been a DK since early access (not the one of the fotw DKs) never complained about the VAST number of reasonable nerfs already done to DK, but this will be the one that ruins the class, only useful skill left in open field PvP. Just going to be DKs spamming claws and hoping that everyone gets stuck, though the stam build bow users will laugh as they roll away with their huge stam pools while they pepper the useless DK, assuming there is a such thing as DK then.

Even counter siege is barely being used, who needs oil now when everyone can stand above,target, and shoot arrows for significantly more damage. It really sounds like ZOS is not playing DKs (as DKs, not merely choosing the class and then using weapons), possibly not playing PvP at all since already strong bows were buffed in last release.

I've gone ahead and redacted everything in your post. To save everyone else the time I've summed up what you said:

is that the best you can do, awww. So many tears you must have had because of evil OP DKs, its ok you will be a little safer soon and you pew-pews will help you feel big and strong, you will not even have to l2p. Does the wittle @eventide03b14a_ESO need a cuddle?

You guys don't phase me one bit. I just go into stealth and wait for you to drop your guard. I'm just impatient and annoyed that I have to wait till you're not paying attention. Good DKs are a problem, luckily there are so many terrible players that rolled them for an easy faceroll.

Wait, we have bonus fire damage? Where is this at? Ohhh, you mean you never read patch notes from a long time ago. Another attempt by someone without a clue to claim DKs are OP.

I had my DK since early access, rolled another just to play a min/max. I have seen each and every nerf to DK. You have no clue, go play a DK if you think they are soooo powerful. Everyone who claims they are OP should try to play one for real

I'm sorry, I didn't realize they removed the Kindling and World in Flame passives.