What is considered acceptable DPS for each class?

Varicite

qiyamatawilrwb17_ESO wrote: »

i abhor stat and dps counters. saps the fun right out of it.
"how awesome am i at standing still making pew pew???"

go on ask me what my dps is b4 sending group invite....

Well, the problem is that for every person that feels the way that you do, there is a group who decides to give somebody a shot who says they do great DPS and doesn't run a meter.

Then they try him out and see that his actual DPS is far below where it needs to be to make the group experience enjoyable for everyone.

Then they have to ask him to leave because he's not pulling his weight, he gets upset and calls them all elitist jerks, maybe makes a post about how all raiders are elitist jerks on the forums and treated him unfairly.

This is obviously not everybody who doesn't run a DPS meter, but it is definitely the case in a lot of instances. Is there some reason that people feel entitled the ruin the experience of 3+ other people because they simply don't care if they pass muster or not?

Me, personally? I don't feel like dealing w/ all of that. I also like to know where I actually stand when it comes to the strength of my characters.

ExiledKhallisi

Gulvar wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

No it wasn't hard...

In eq1 ...I was 12 yrs old when it launched. Farmed guk for fungi tunic with my monk after school. got two tranquil staves... wrecked the entire game solo until luclin then quit for wow.

The real challenge in EQ was always logistics. The fights weren't very complicated. People either played their classes properly or they didn't. Those who did and beat the others who did to spawns won.

You shouldn't misrepresent the game though. You didn't wreck the entire game solo. You flopped around with feign death and cherry picked what you could solo.

No really, as iksar monk with fungi tunic I could solo things that took whole groups to kill. The game was outrageously unbalanced. So unbalanced I figured out the loop holes as a preteen with limited time to play.

I was 12 so don't judge me lol...

Someone had my spawn? No problem train entire zone on them and feign death.
Also got creative on some bosses and would solo pull them to groups and then steal the kill with their help. Once I had my epic fists I could deal a *** amount of damage.
Soloed spectres and giants all day in oasis for plat. Sometimes permafrost giants..(good times tundra jack ftw)

Monk was a broken class. The close seconds were necromancer and cleric could solo almost anything if played right.

ExiledKhallisi

Multiple targets is not the same thing as sustained single target DPS. No one cares about aoe DPS, everyone can do it.

Hortator Mopa

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

So many videos, and yet you fail to show even one.

But just to be clear, the only videos with 2k dps that i've seen are videos where people use axes or adds to inflate dps on the last AA boss for an extended period, but those don't count, because that is AOE dps, not sustained single target.

Here's an example that i found in a quick search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z35Vvre_L3Q

As shown above, the DK had around 1k dps when there was one target on the screen. Then, the axes boosted his dps to 2k. But the 2k isn't single target dps.

Of course, if you say 2k AA, without regards to whether that is AOE or single target, that is not an incorrect statement. But if you say 2k single target, that's not a correct statement.

I assure you, I wouldn't make a statement unless it was true. And the truth is that Nightblades can hold 2K+ on long single target fights. I've seen the recounts linked from the trials runs.

If you don't want to believe it, it's your problem. Not mine. I have no burden of proof.

^ you are right but like I said... "I CANT DO IT SO IT IS IMPOSSIBLE" is all that is running through their head.

someuser

Shinra wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you, but you sound like a noob in eso. and 30+ years in OTHER games won't change that in the slightest.

"class/weapon/guild skills to use and in what basic rotation" really??

Why not ask about the real important things, like, you know, mundus stone, used set items, weapon trait, armor enchantments, and acessory enchantments? Without those a build may only deal half the damage.

Well, at least you are correct, fully sustained DPS against trial's tough bosses won't reach far more than 1000.

@Shinra

The important things like, "mundus stone, used set items, weapon trait, armor enchantments, and acessory enchantments?" lol

Sounds like you are a wannabe mmo elitist as well as the product of the American public school system (IE no reading comprehension skills).

If I'm hitting 228 - 330 sustained dps at VR1 I can see how one might hit 1000dps. However, in my post, I was flabbergasted by the 2k+ sustained dps. In which case son, I'm more interested in what rotation is going hit numbers higher then a stealth crit attack opener. Cause nothing I'm playing with, irrespective of the little set bonuses, is anywhere near 2k... Not unless, like others have said, you're talking about aoe damage on trash mobs.


So again, for all those who think you're doing 2k+, I challenge you to post your rotations and morphs. You can keep your set bonuses and weapon traits as your own little secret

Hortator Mopa

Multiple dots + basic rotations + High crit rates + worthy gear + non potato build.
+ Why do people need to hold other peoples hands and explain builds anyways?

You have a computer so go on google.

someuser

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Multiple dots + basic rotations.
+ Why do people need to hold other peoples hands and explain builds anyways?

You have a computer so go on google.

I have taken the time in both PMs and on the forums to help people with basic info. How come everyone here is so elitist that they cannot type a simple public post detailing no more than 10 possible base skills and two ultimates?

Always "google it". Sure, I think you 2k+ dps claimers are just full of crap. I have no doubt that through exploits, animation canceling, bugs, ect that a very very select few can hit higher then "normal" dps.... But there is no set bonus, weapon trait, or basic skills that just hit 2k (single target sustained dps that is)

Hortator Mopa

Why do people need to take time to help others get better dps. Let alone when the people asking for it are being potatoes about it and screaming "impossible". It would take time, pictures and explanations to explain how to hit 2k dps. Time people like you are not worth.

Google it.. No one will hold your hand when they get nothing in return let alone when people are being rude because they cant do that dps themselves.

*edit* I just realized you implied animation canceling is a exploit or optional for dps lol. Just lol.

Rune_Relic

At the end of the day there are casual players and hardcore players.
Most of the whining on here is hardcore players saying us casuals suck.
Well yes we suck.

That doesn not mean the game should only cater for hardcore players.

So acceptable DPS to a casual or acceptable DPS to a hardcore player ?

There are many here that really dont give two[snip] about what there DPS is. They only want to get into a fight and hopefully survive and come out the other end without having to ressurrect every 5 seconds and use 1000 gems. One is leisurely exploration..one is trial teams. Exactly the reason you need addons to even see your dps.

TBH I am disugusted we are even disgussing a mandatory DPS minimum and that anyone else should pack up and find another game. This game is not just for hardcore players. Get over yourselves.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Vahrokh

Aeratus wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

To people claiming they do 1.5k-2k single target.

You are lieing...

Show me vid of you sustaining it for whole AA boss fight. No expert hunter.

Don't show me a mammoth fight..or a giant fight...I can 3 shot a mammoth on my melee sorc. I want to see a sustained boss fight DPS. You see....all these tests on lite enemies don't prove anything. They show opening/burst potential. That is all. The initial jump on your DPS meter doesn't show your actual DPS, its just showing THAT instance RIGHT when you attack. and it evens out after some time.I have made posts in the past boasting about my DPS...and I reluctantly discredit them since I have learned more about how DPS in ESO works.

Good DPS is sustained single target 700-1000. Sustained 2000 is not possible.

Google it, Youtube it.... lol.

You are the one claiming it, burden of proof is on you. But don't worry, there isn't a person here who believes you.

Im not your baby sitter, type and look into it yourself. 1.8-2k is possible. Plenty of vids of it in boss fights and trials.. Seen it myself, done it myself.

Couldnt care less that a potato thinks its impossible.

Yeah, 1.8-2k dps on trash mobs (including the first boss in AA which is a trash mob) isn't anything extraordinary. No one is disputing that.

How could you even measure 1st AA boss anyway. In our casual guild we kill it before it does the first nuke! That is, an handful of seconds!

Muizer

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

*edit* I just realized you implied animation canceling is a exploit or optional for dps lol. Just lol.

And what about macroing? Lol too? Just asking. It's the obvious way of getting the most out of animation cancelling.

Muizer

Something else that occurred to me: how much difference do alliance war bonuses make to these stats?

Hortator Mopa

^ always have a farm campaign for that benifit. Also macros are great how ever I only use a few for armor/wep/skill swaps between fights to speed up runs with a press of a key. I dont use them in fights, they would make dps go up though.

After time people should be as good as the macro at their rotations.

Jitterbug

I'm sorry guys, I know you mean well but responding to a thread asking about DPS what DPS doesnt matter is kinda, well... you get the point.
Its like responding to a guy asking to buy deadric motif that it doesnt matter what his armor looks like.

seanvwolf

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

In eq1 ...I was 12 yrs old when it launched. Farmed guk for fungi tunic with my monk after school. got two tranquil staves... wrecked the entire game solo until luclin then quit for wow.

1 - That equipment combination was famous for twinks. Especially people who couldn't reliably survive as the puller (monks had feign death). It's not very impressive to say you "wrecked the entire game solo" with something that is reliably going to keep you from getting killed. I also had a monk with fungi tunic and staves, which I bought from other players, and it was obscene. I could just stand there and hit auto attack and not have to worry about any skills and destroy most of the content. That was known exploit gear. If you went through the game without those dumb twink gears, you would have found it much more challenging, which is partly why the twink gears, like fungi tunic and tranquil staff, were so popular.

2 - Fungi Tunic dropped off Spore King in Old Seb, not Guk, and Tranquil Staff dropped off Skel Warlord, also in Kunark, and could both be freely traded, which means someone probably twinked you since you don't know where you got it and say that you farmed it after launch. It wasn't available at launch, only after the first expansion.

3 - Both the tunic and staves were only available as rare drops from RoK expansion lvl 40 zones, meaning if you did farm them, you still had to level to at least around 40 without them, and at that time, there was a lvl cap of 60, only just recently increased from it's previous cap of 50. So we aren't talking about a whole lot of solo content there left to "wreck".

I cry foul on your assessment, good sir.

EQ pre-Planes was a lot like the leveling zones from 1-50 in ESO and was a lot more difficult to get through than ESO if solo without relying on twink gear. There wasn't really any high-level endgame content to wreck before then.

Varicite

Muizer wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

*edit* I just realized you implied animation canceling is a exploit or optional for dps lol. Just lol.

And what about macroing? Lol too? Just asking. It's the obvious way of getting the most out of animation cancelling.

Except that ZOS explicitly stated that macroing out a rotation for animation cancelling is cheating.

It's one thing if you are doing it, but it's a completely different thing if you have a 3rd party program doing it for you.

Leeric

Aeratus wrote: »

So many videos, and yet you fail to show even one.

But just to be clear, the only videos with 2k dps that i've seen are videos where people use axes or adds to inflate dps on the last AA boss for an extended period, but those don't count, because that is AOE dps, not sustained single target.

Here's an example that i found in a quick search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z35Vvre_L3Q

As shown above, the DK had around 1k dps when there was one target on the screen. Then, the axes boosted his dps to 2k. But the 2k isn't single target dps.

Of course, if you say 2k AA, without regards to whether that is AOE or single target, that is not an incorrect statement. But if you say 2k single target, that's not a correct statement.

lol got to love it when people post out of date videos.

Bouvin

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Hey guys, Dps is a funny thing and cant always be measured in a way that means anything.. HOWEVER you are doing it "wrong".

To test your dps you need to do it on a single target (with enough hp to make the fight last a little while) and you cant use ultimate or potions. Tbh you cant use anything that you wont have on the whole time in a boss fight aka final boss at AA.

Ill link my dps test on a storm atron. (2k+ dps single target semi sustained). Remember on longer bosses it may be lower, or sometimes the same, it depends on a few things and also with pots and ulti it can change. Like I said its hard to fully get a good idea of what DPS even is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbQflOcqZc

As a NB if you do it right you can hit 1k+ easy consistent on AA and VET DSA bosses and 2k + like I am doing on smaller mobs such as the ones you would find appearing around bosses in DSA VET (SINGLE TARGET ONLY). A few times I have kept 2k up on bosses though. Depending on crit rate. (ALSO SINGLE TARGET)

For AOEing you should be getting far more. At spell scar I can hit 8k solo without heals on the packs of mobs there.

I understand you said you are a tank however, goodluck.

Shouldn't you also have to fight something that Fighter's Guild doesn't provide an advantage?

Qhival

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

*edit* I just realized you implied animation canceling is a exploit or optional for dps lol. Just lol.

ZOS has stated that it is an unintended flaw that they are planning to fix. They won't come out and say it's an exploit because it's so damn easy to do and some people do it completely by accident. If they were to label it an exploit they would be flooded with player reports, and they know they wouldn't be able to enforce it.

The problem gets even worse when combined with macros.

It's an exploit. It's using a game flaw to your advantage. That being said, You have to do it to be competitive in ESO because unfortunately everyone does it.

I've played dozens of mmorpgs, and they all have had some flaw like this that people argue "it makes the combat more engaging!" but guess what, they are always fixed eventually. Some companies, like ZOS, take longer because they know the community backlash if they simply add a global cooldown...

Varicite

Qhival wrote: »

they know the community backlash if they simply add a global cooldown...

There already is an internal cooldown on all attacks.

That's why they don't feel it's a priority to "fix" it or feel that it's an exploit. You literally cannot attack faster than the intended cooldown.

Cancel all you like, but you'll never be able to do more than 2 attacks in a 1.3~ second period. That internal cooldown exists solely to limit your rate of attack, so there's already measures in place to curb animation cancelling.

It's not broken.

Macroing, however, is a separate issue. It's my impression that they dislike macros that automate portions of the game, such as using a rotation w/ the push of a button.

If you animation cancel, it's fine. It's the way the attacks were intended to interact. If you have a 3rd party program doing it for you, then that's cheating. Has nothing to do w/ the interaction of mechanics and everything to do w/ using a program to play the game for you.

Qhival wrote: »

ZOS has stated that it is an unintended flaw that they are planning to fix.

Also, this is absolutely false. They never said it was a flaw. They never said they were planning to "fix" anything.

In fact, they are changing the Haste ability and morphs to mesh better w/ animation cancelling.

What they said (paraphrasing) was that the abilities are interacting properly, but they didn't foresee the player base adopting animation cancelling as the go-to method for dps. They have also explicitly said numerous times that using animation cancelling / attack weaving is not an exploit.

No matter how much players wish to try to twist the devs' words, it doesn't change facts.

If you have a source that says anything even remotely close to what you're stating, I'd love to see it. : P

timidobserver

Honestly, the AA Storm Atro should not even be taken into consideration when discussing dps. That boss dies so fast that it is not considered sustain.

On sustain, non- expert hunter encounters, most groups won't have an issue taking you a long if you are doing over 800 dps.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

To people claiming they do 1.5k-2k single target.

You are lieing...

Show me vid of you sustaining it for whole AA boss fight. No expert hunter.

Don't show me a mammoth fight..or a giant fight...I can 3 shot a mammoth on my melee sorc. I want to see a sustained boss fight DPS. You see....all these tests on lite enemies don't prove anything. They show opening/burst potential. That is all. The initial jump on your DPS meter doesn't show your actual DPS, its just showing THAT instance RIGHT when you attack. and it evens out after some time.I have made posts in the past boasting about my DPS...and I reluctantly discredit them since I have learned more about how DPS in ESO works.

Good DPS is sustained single target 700-1000. Sustained 2000 is not possible.

Google it, Youtube it.... lol.

You are the one claiming it, burden of proof is on you. But don't worry, there isn't a person here who believes you.

Im not your baby sitter, type and look into it yourself. 1.8-2k is possible. Plenty of vids of it in boss fights and trials.. Seen it myself, done it myself.

Couldnt care less that a potato thinks its impossible.

Yeah, 1.8-2k dps on trash mobs (including the first boss in AA which is a trash mob) isn't anything extraordinary. No one is disputing that.

How could you even measure 1st AA boss anyway. In our casual guild we kill it before it does the first nuke! That is, an handful of seconds!

Yeh, people that cont the first boss of AA are just being deceptive about their actual dps. Honestly, the AA Storm Atro should not even be taken into consideration when discussing dps. That boss dies so fast that it is not considered sustain.

On sustain, non- expert hunter encounters, most groups won't have an issue taking you a long if you are doing over 800 dps.

Amsel_McKay

seanvwolf wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

In eq1 ...I was 12 yrs old when it launched. Farmed guk for fungi tunic with my monk after school. got two tranquil staves... wrecked the entire game solo until luclin then quit for wow.

1 - That equipment combination was famous for twinks. Especially people who couldn't reliably survive as the puller (monks had feign death). It's not very impressive to say you "wrecked the entire game solo" with something that is reliably going to keep you from getting killed. I also had a monk with fungi tunic and staves, which I bought from other players, and it was obscene. I could just stand there and hit auto attack and not have to worry about any skills and destroy most of the content. That was known exploit gear. If you went through the game without those dumb twink gears, you would have found it much more challenging, which is partly why the twink gears, like fungi tunic and tranquil staff, were so popular.

2 - Fungi Tunic dropped off Spore King in Old Seb, not Guk, and Tranquil Staff dropped off Skel Warlord, also in Kunark, and could both be freely traded, which means someone probably twinked you since you don't know where you got it and say that you farmed it after launch. It wasn't available at launch, only after the first expansion.

3 - Both the tunic and staves were only available as rare drops from RoK expansion lvl 40 zones, meaning if you did farm them, you still had to level to at least around 40 without them, and at that time, there was a lvl cap of 60, only just recently increased from it's previous cap of 50. So we aren't talking about a whole lot of solo content there left to "wreck".

I cry foul on your assessment, good sir.

EQ pre-Planes was a lot like the leveling zones from 1-50 in ESO and was a lot more difficult to get through than ESO if solo without relying on twink gear. There wasn't really any high-level endgame content to wreck before then.

I was going to respond to him almost 100% like this... "wrecked the entire game solo" was impossible with EQ. I remember 48 hour raids in PoG... and then the crazy progression when POP came out. FG? All the high end Kunark... A game like EQ will NEVER come out again. It was unique and all modern players would cry SO much if they had to play it today.

and most of the old player (myself) dont have 48 hours to spend in one raid. I was the first cleric to get full bronze armor in 1999 I felt like a GOD.. for people who did not know full bronze had no stat boosts other then AC. Now you play any game and they hand out stat armor that is amazing in the first second. (Look at ESO, you do a tutorial and get nice armor, you can make a full set right away)

I played an templar to VR1 in my level 4 armor just to see and it was easy one or two deaths in solo play. compare that to trying to may a low level run through kith without dying 7 times and corpse running... but that is what I liked corpse runs and the extreme deaths and hardness of the game.

Shinra

someuser wrote: »

Sounds like you are a wannabe mmo elitist as well as the product of the American public school system (IE no reading comprehension skills).

Forum-PvP

ps. you didn't get my point either, appearently.

someuser

Shinra wrote: »

someuser wrote: »

Sounds like you are a wannabe mmo elitist as well as the product of the American public school system (IE no reading comprehension skills).

Forum-PvP

ps. you didn't get my point either, appearently.

Fair enough, as I too am a product of the public school system

Muizer

Varicite wrote: »

Macroing, however, is a separate issue. It's my impression that they dislike macros that automate portions of the game, such as using a rotation w/ the push of a button.

If you animation cancel, it's fine. It's the way the attacks were intended to interact. If you have a 3rd party program doing it for you, then that's cheating. Has nothing to do w/ the interaction of mechanics and everything to do w/ using a program to play the game for you.

In principle I agree, but playing the devil's advocate one could argue that "the ability to not let yourself be misled by animation length" can't have been a skill ZoS wanted people to need either and macroing sure is a remedy.

Varicite wrote: »

What they said (paraphrasing) was that the abilities are interacting properly, but they didn't foresee the player base adopting animation cancelling as the go-to method for dps. They have also explicitly said numerous times that using animation cancelling / attack weaving is not an exploit.

True. Odd they stopped just short of admitting their animations are off, which nonetheless is the only conclusion left to draw.

Qhival

Varicite wrote: »

If you have a source that says anything even remotely close to what you're stating, I'd love to see it. : P

this is all i have at the moment, but i'll find more.
https://i.imgur.com/J92M812.png

admits it's unintended, which is admiring it's a flaw, something they didn't expect.

Khivas_Carrick

Honestly I don't see animation canceling having much of a future as this game progresses, kinda messes combat up in the sense that it looks funky and not as free flowing as it should be.

Hortator Mopa

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Honestly I don't see animation canceling having much of a future as this game progresses, kinda messes combat up in the sense that it looks funky and not as free flowing as it should be.

Its not about the future at the moment. Its about what people need to do to be top tier and not someone who just gets carried. Animation canceling will be necessary until they remove it. IF they ever do.

Sublime

I like animation canceling as a little challenge/option for those who want to put out more dps that the rest.

Jitterbug

someuser wrote: »

Shinra wrote: »

someuser wrote: »

Sounds like you are a wannabe mmo elitist as well as the product of the American public school system (IE no reading comprehension skills).

Forum-PvP

ps. you didn't get my point either, appearently.

Fair enough, as I too am a product of the public school system

poor muricans

:P