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Werewolf 1.5.1 Changes Review.
Hypertionb14_ESO
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"Bleed damage on light attacks no longer has a delay, allowing you to now damage
your enemy on every hit."
In action, this can and at time does literally doubles your base DPS of light attacks on the berserker WW. bleed hits can crit up to 400 alongside of the inital hits. tho bleed effects in general are still deseriable for undead fights (skeletons and antronachs mostly) the amount of damage this does makes WW form able to very quickly down
on mammoths, i was hitting for 391 on light attack crits and 350 or so on bleed crits.. the time it takes to down a 7k hp mammoth has dropped from 7 seconds t around 3-4. the bleed can drop as low as 200 per crit on some mobs, but the end result is still quite high.
the fact that all wolf versions benefit off this will have bigger impacts tho. i do see the eventual complaining from PVP players about how Werewolfs are killing them through blocking via tons of bleed damage tho.
"Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate."
ouch. its noticeable, but you can devour so often and so easily now that you can still pretty much stay Wolf forever. nice thing i noticed, you can Devour critters like deer or squirrels. basically anything with meat. (not sure how bone colossus work tho... tho dogs do love chewing on a bone)
"You can now sprint on all fours without sheathing your claws."
works as it sounds, you no longer need to push Z after a fight to run on all fours. you will basically just run on all fours
increases to the power of the new abilities-
the dot on claws is still not too noticeable in damage and the inital hit is no longer really worth the clunky animation and horrid global cooldown issues, it has gone from being a really tiny range arc AOE that does respectable 500 or so damage and a 50-70dps DOT to a mid 300-400 ranged hit that ticks around 90dps on the DOT (the dot is every 2 seconds or so) changes are negative overall for this ability, Fix the clunkyness and the current damage will be just fine tho. (shorten the Global Cool Down by 0.2 seconds ideally to start)
Crits from Roar are hitting for 800+ on my and the heal non crits for 750 or so.
Bugs still present-
The Feral pounce Morph still doesnt work, time is not restored in any fashion when the ability is used no matter the distance (should restore 1-4 seconds based on level) -TESTED WITH RANK III FERAL POUNCE
the stam and armor bonus of WW transform is working, but has less than 1% of a effect only boosting around 60 or so stam and 100 armor
infectous claws are still clunky to use, the cooldown after is nearly 1/3 that of the duration of the animation. using this move is still kind of a issue because of the openings that moment you cant attack causes... remember the time they put a cool down on Puncturing strikes? the delay between the animation completion and your next action is worse here
your enemy on every hit."
In action, this can and at time does literally doubles your base DPS of light attacks on the berserker WW. bleed hits can crit up to 400 alongside of the inital hits. tho bleed effects in general are still deseriable for undead fights (skeletons and antronachs mostly) the amount of damage this does makes WW form able to very quickly down
on mammoths, i was hitting for 391 on light attack crits and 350 or so on bleed crits.. the time it takes to down a 7k hp mammoth has dropped from 7 seconds t around 3-4. the bleed can drop as low as 200 per crit on some mobs, but the end result is still quite high.
the fact that all wolf versions benefit off this will have bigger impacts tho. i do see the eventual complaining from PVP players about how Werewolfs are killing them through blocking via tons of bleed damage tho.
"Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate."
ouch. its noticeable, but you can devour so often and so easily now that you can still pretty much stay Wolf forever. nice thing i noticed, you can Devour critters like deer or squirrels. basically anything with meat. (not sure how bone colossus work tho... tho dogs do love chewing on a bone)
"You can now sprint on all fours without sheathing your claws."
works as it sounds, you no longer need to push Z after a fight to run on all fours. you will basically just run on all fours
increases to the power of the new abilities-
the dot on claws is still not too noticeable in damage and the inital hit is no longer really worth the clunky animation and horrid global cooldown issues, it has gone from being a really tiny range arc AOE that does respectable 500 or so damage and a 50-70dps DOT to a mid 300-400 ranged hit that ticks around 90dps on the DOT (the dot is every 2 seconds or so) changes are negative overall for this ability, Fix the clunkyness and the current damage will be just fine tho. (shorten the Global Cool Down by 0.2 seconds ideally to start)
Crits from Roar are hitting for 800+ on my and the heal non crits for 750 or so.
Bugs still present-
The Feral pounce Morph still doesnt work, time is not restored in any fashion when the ability is used no matter the distance (should restore 1-4 seconds based on level) -TESTED WITH RANK III FERAL POUNCE
the stam and armor bonus of WW transform is working, but has less than 1% of a effect only boosting around 60 or so stam and 100 armor
infectous claws are still clunky to use, the cooldown after is nearly 1/3 that of the duration of the animation. using this move is still kind of a issue because of the openings that moment you cant attack causes... remember the time they put a cool down on Puncturing strikes? the delay between the animation completion and your next action is worse here
I play every class in every situation. I love them all.
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Iduyenn✭✭✭✭"Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate."
ouch. its noticeable, but you can devour so often and so easily now that you can still pretty much stay Wolf forever. nice thing i noticed, you can Devour critters like deer or squirrels. basically anything with meat. (not sure how bone colossus work tho... tho dogs do love chewing on a bone)
I am still shocked... We wanted more time and they nerf us to 30 secs.Edited by Iduyenn on October 20, 2014 9:36PM3 -
"Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate."
ouch. its noticeable, but you can devour so often and so easily now that you can still pretty much stay Wolf forever. nice thing i noticed, you can Devour critters like deer or squirrels. basically anything with meat. (not sure how bone colossus work tho... tho dogs do love chewing on a bone)
I am still shocked... We wanted more time and they nerf us to 30 secs.
That is unpleasant surprise for me too. I expect official word of explanation about that change!
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ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭nicedragon wrote: »"Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate."
ouch. its noticeable, but you can devour so often and so easily now that you can still pretty much stay Wolf forever. nice thing i noticed, you can Devour critters like deer or squirrels. basically anything with meat. (not sure how bone colossus work tho... tho dogs do love chewing on a bone)
I am still shocked... We wanted more time and they nerf us to 30 secs.
That is unpleasant surprise for me too. I expect official word of explanation about that change!
With the changes to bleed applying instantly effectively doubling ww DPS makes ww the most powerful ultimate in the game. Reduction in time makes sense.
I am overall happy with the changes. I can't wait to make perma block heroes cry in cyrodil.Edited by ExiledKhallisi on October 20, 2014 10:11PM>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War0 -
kaorunandrak✭✭✭Not to mention the addition of being able to feed on almost everything the time reduction isn't noticeable outside of a long one on one fight, which has it's advantages and disadvantages. The longer in WW form you are the more damage you do but the less options you have, so for trials and vet dungeons(if your able to get on them as a ww) the skill operates as a 30 second burst and dot the hell out of the enemy ability. For other content it is pretty much kill and eat the map, wash rinse repeat.Guild Leader of The Crimson Moon PVE/PVP NA
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Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »nicedragon wrote: »"Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate."
ouch. its noticeable, but you can devour so often and so easily now that you can still pretty much stay Wolf forever. nice thing i noticed, you can Devour critters like deer or squirrels. basically anything with meat. (not sure how bone colossus work tho... tho dogs do love chewing on a bone)
I am still shocked... We wanted more time and they nerf us to 30 secs.
That is unpleasant surprise for me too. I expect official word of explanation about that change!
With the changes to bleed applying instantly effectively doubling ww DPS makes ww the most powerful ultimate in the game. Reduction in time makes sense.
I am overall happy with the changes. I can't wait to make perma block heroes cry in cyrodil.
haha, me too. at this point overall i am in total agreement in reguards to the improvements to WWI play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »nicedragon wrote: »"Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate."
ouch. its noticeable, but you can devour so often and so easily now that you can still pretty much stay Wolf forever. nice thing i noticed, you can Devour critters like deer or squirrels. basically anything with meat. (not sure how bone colossus work tho... tho dogs do love chewing on a bone)
I am still shocked... We wanted more time and they nerf us to 30 secs.
That is unpleasant surprise for me too. I expect official word of explanation about that change!
With the changes to bleed applying instantly effectively doubling ww DPS makes ww the most powerful ultimate in the game. Reduction in time makes sense.
I am overall happy with the changes. I can't wait to make perma block heroes cry in cyrodil.
Stam sorc + 5 Savior's Hide + 5 Akaviri Dragonguard/3 Blessing of the potentates is possible for a gimmicky ww spam build, if you were willing to put up with it's otherwise horrible itemization that is.0 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭Did you tested it at all? I killd 4 mobs. Ok. 1/4 time left. devour. back to 1/2 counting down... devour cd... 1/4 time left. devoured again, 1/2 again, counting down. Zos sux....Edited by Kypho on October 21, 2014 8:38AM0 -
Lykanus✭✭✭Shortening the WW Time is a problem for group PvE and PvP, there its even a huge problem. When you play as a Pack with a now even shorter Timer its almost impossible to do something as a Werewolves together(when the last has turned, the first needs to devour already or will turn back...).
From my posthttp://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1328829/#Comment_1328829 please consider the buff of getting the WW Timer stop for 3 sec in a fight.
Bring in a "Rage of the Battle" passive ability that every time you hit a mob gives the player a refreshing (not stacking!) buff the stops the werewolf-time-counter for 3 seconds. So you can turn into a werewolf before a boss and can be sure you finish the encounter also as a werewolf. After a fight you will then turn back anyway fast if you dont have anything to devour. But it works for Bosses/PvP Fights.
This should be easy implementable by the engine as it is already possible to stop the Wolf timer near hircine's shrines, so make that hidden buff cast on every melee hit of a werewolf that lasts for 3seconds.
With 30 seconds, it will be not more then a short burn in some dmg ability, that has downsides, just one more Ultimate but no skill-line.
For Solo PvE the current system will work good, but also please fix it for group PvE/Trials/Arenas everything where you arent alone it will still be unuseable in its current state.
Its on a good way with the werewolf updates now, but one last important issue with the time needs to be fixed, then i'd say the werewolves are in a good way to be done. Maybe test out with the next pts version a 1min30sec timer from start at least (optimum would be 3 minutes for pvp), or really fix it with during the fight the timer stops.Edited by Lykanus on October 21, 2014 9:35AM4 -
With so short time it is not Werewolf any more. It is just not worth ultimate costing you extra skill points for me.
It maybe have some pros in PvP but don't forget about PvE where you are more focused on searching dead bodies than real fighting. Shorting time just intensified that behaviour.
Werewolf is now a scavenger rather than predatory carnivores.
Oh and balancing it so that it has an equal chance 1vs1 with others is absurd because you have to weaken the werewolf to the point where it is no longer a werewolf, or strengthen the players so that they will become half-gods or daedric prices. Both solutions are incorrect.Edited by nicedragon on October 21, 2014 8:54AM5 -
KenjiJU✭✭✭How about a stamina or weapon damage bonus while WW Ult is slotted, similar to Flawless Dawnbreaker? (Maybe Stamina for Pack Leader, Weapon Damage for Berker) Something to balance the time out of WW and have a different reason to keep it on the bar. I can't speak about 1.5 or how much I'd use it in the future, but there're so many times that I won't be using WW anyway, it's wasted space on my loadout.
About the duration.. I think shorter duration allows them to make it stronger, even though it's not a wanted change by many. What I think may be a better option is to extend the timer a bit longer, but disable devour from lengthening the timer. Instead, devour will empower your WW until your timer runs out. Gaining more power with each devour. (not talking 1-shotting here, but maybe up to 40% more damage total and/or more def or health too) It has the potential to make WWs feared, but only for a short time.
The other skills that add to the timer can remain as is as they won't be enough to sustain WW indefinitely. (From what I know)Edited by KenjiJU on October 21, 2014 11:16AM0 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about a stamina or weapon damage bonus while WW Ult is slotted, similar to Flawless Dawnbreaker? (Maybe Stamina for Pack Leader, Weapon Damage for Berker) Something to balance the time out of WW and have a different reason to keep it on the bar. I can't speak about 1.5 or how much I'd use it in the future, but there're so many times that I won't be using WW anyway, it's wasted space on my loadout.
About the duration.. I think shorter duration allows them to make it stronger, even though it's not a wanted change by many. What I think may be a better option is to extend the timer a bit longer, but disable devour from lengthening the timer. Instead, devour will empower your WW until your timer runs out. Gaining more power with each devour. (not talking 1-shotting here, but maybe up to 40% more damage total and/or more def or health too) It has the potential to make WWs feared, but only for a short time.
The other skills that add to the timer can remain as is as they won't be enough to sustain WW indefinitely. (From what I know)
the timer on devour is low enough that as long as you have mobs to eat you can stay in WW form forever. the one non devour restoration is currently bugged and doesnt add time atm tho.I play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
what about the ultimate u gain in ww form? does it still reset when u turn back in human form? is this a bug anyways or it's intended to be like that? Sorry if this was answered somewhere else, i couldn't find it.0
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Maou✭✭omy_mkeb17_ESO wrote: »what about the ultimate u gain in ww form? does it still reset when u turn back in human form? is this a bug anyways or it's intended to be like that? Sorry if this was answered somewhere else, i couldn't find it.
It still resets. I doubt its something they deliberately intended, but I also don't think they'll be changing it any time soon, if at all. With how easy it is to gain full ult in WW form, it would be overpowered if we could just transform again right after time runs out.
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omy_mkeb17_ESO wrote: »what about the ultimate u gain in ww form? does it still reset when u turn back in human form? is this a bug anyways or it's intended to be like that? Sorry if this was answered somewhere else, i couldn't find it.
It still resets. I doubt its something they deliberately intended, but I also don't think they'll be changing it any time soon, if at all. With how easy it is to gain full ult in WW form, it would be overpowered if we could just transform again right after time runs out.
Definetly not overpowered... DKs, Nbs can recharge ultis like Banner, Magma armor, Veil, etc.. by the time it runs out, and those ultis are far more powerfull and usefull. WW ultimate already has an increased cost to trade off with it's "overpowered" status, not to mention the weakness u have as a ww. This issue has to be addressed properly!Edited by omy_mkeb17_ESO on October 21, 2014 3:58PM1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭omy_mkeb17_ESO wrote: »omy_mkeb17_ESO wrote: »what about the ultimate u gain in ww form? does it still reset when u turn back in human form? is this a bug anyways or it's intended to be like that? Sorry if this was answered somewhere else, i couldn't find it.
It still resets. I doubt its something they deliberately intended, but I also don't think they'll be changing it any time soon, if at all. With how easy it is to gain full ult in WW form, it would be overpowered if we could just transform again right after time runs out.
Definetly not overpowered... DKs, Nbs can recharge ultis like Banner, Magma armor, Veil, etc.. by the time it runs out, and those ultis are far more powerfull and usefull. WW ultimate already has an increased cost to trade off with it's "overpowered" status, not to mention the weakness u have as a ww. This issue has to be addressed properly!
People are arguing for two things here....
1. For werewolf ultimate to be pwoerful
2. To treat the ultimate like every other ultimate at the same time (aka can cast them often to the point that they overlap)
It is one or the other IMO. I personally would prefer a short duration but very powerful transformation. If the skills, DPS, etc., is too low while transformed, it is a wasted ultimate.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭omy_mkeb17_ESO wrote: »what about the ultimate u gain in ww form? does it still reset when u turn back in human form? is this a bug anyways or it's intended to be like that? Sorry if this was answered somewhere else, i couldn't find it.
It still resets. I doubt its something they deliberately intended, but I also don't think they'll be changing it any time soon, if at all. With how easy it is to gain full ult in WW form, it would be overpowered if we could just transform again right after time runs out.
I can use other ultimates as soon as they end in most cases.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War0 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »omy_mkeb17_ESO wrote: »what about the ultimate u gain in ww form? does it still reset when u turn back in human form? is this a bug anyways or it's intended to be like that? Sorry if this was answered somewhere else, i couldn't find it.
It still resets. I doubt its something they deliberately intended, but I also don't think they'll be changing it any time soon, if at all. With how easy it is to gain full ult in WW form, it would be overpowered if we could just transform again right after time runs out.
I can use other ultimates as soon as they end in most cases.
In fact...the best ultimate in the game (even after the 1.5 30% heal nerf) Devouring swarm...I can keep up 95% of the time while in combat on just about any class.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War1 -
draeganb16_ESO✭✭✭@ExiledKhallisi : And you think that's normal that the vampire ultimate can be spammed when you are crowded because the ability don't reset your gain after the effect but Werewolves can't ?
That something that I have never understood since the beta of the game : Why in oblivion does developers allowed such unbalanced thing in the game ???? Are you bribed by Molag Bal ? Does Hircine scared you in your childhood ?
After more than a year of public acces, could you do something about that ?Edited by draeganb16_ESO on October 21, 2014 5:27PMWhen Bloodmoon calls, Rivers turns red.1 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭draeganb16_ESO wrote: »@ExiledKhallisi : And you think that's normal that the vampire ultimate can be spammed when you are crowded because the ability don't reset your gain after the effect but Werewolves can't ?
That something that I have never understood since the beta of the game : Why in oblivion does developers allowed such unbalanced thing in the game ???? Are you bribed by Molag Bal ? Does Hircine scared you in your childhood ?
After more than a year of public acces, could you do something about that ?
You misunderstood.... I think its bullsh** And if it can be done with other ultimates why not Werewolf?>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War4 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Hum, the reduction of the werewolf form duration is not the right way to go. It's already painful to get the required amount of ultimate points to turn into the werewolf form.
Or, when we turn back to our human form, the ultimate points that we could obtain as a werewolf should not be reset. After all, when we get out of bat swarm, the ultimate points are not reset either, allowing us to chain launch bat swarm before the timer ends.
My preferred option:
- All ultimate abilities should reset the ultimate points when the ability ends. So it's not possible to chain bat swarm, standard, the werewolf form, etc...
- The duration of werewolf form should be increased.
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Thejollygreenone✭✭✭The duration reduction in werewolf form is fine under ONE very specific condition.
With a shorter duration, werewolves need to be able to match or even have greater power than they were able to in human form. Simple to say, but not so easy in practice.
As of 1.5.1, I believe we're still not powerful enough in werewolf form to justify the reduction in time. My unbuffed non-potion bow dps is higher than my fully buffed with-potion werewolf dps. That's a problem for me.
Don't release update 5 with the reduction in timer if this balance between strength and duration hasn't been achieved. If the WW ult isn't worth the 30 seconds you spend in it by being more effective than the time you spend out of it, then you guys at ZoS need to keep on buffing until that happens.
That's how I see it.2 -
kaorunandrak✭✭✭That's a problem FOR YOU, again WW is not meant to be the end all be all and we aren't supposed to be Vampires. Vamps are constantly getting called out to be nerfed that is not the focus werewolves need, we are looking for balance here, the problem is WW does not operate like any other ultimate in game and there fore comparing it to other ultimates is a major issue.
You can't sit there and say well I can chain bat swarm or banner of might, neither of these change your form grant a hidden skill bar and grant access to unique abilities on top of buffing basic stats. Our form is a unique power and with the right setup and mind set is currently in my eyes fairly over powered. I use a two-handed sword prior to transforming with the transformation and passive weapon damage increase I am over charged add the fact I am now effectively swinging that two handed sword as fast as a dual blade user if not faster, with the addition of bleed proc's, crit damage, poison damage, knockdown, fear, best heavy attack/stamina heal in game , a fairly massive self heal which is not using my main attack resource and the ability to feed on practically everything every 7 seconds. I am killing solo dungeon and public dungeon bosses in SECONDS after this patch, the debuff to our duration is justified we are capable of causing a tremendous amount of damage upfront and over time, inflicting insta-knock downs, and massive fear/off balance opportunities for our group. Or would you prefer a massive decrease in the damage and utility we just received just so you can stay in form a few more precious seconds?Guild Leader of The Crimson Moon PVE/PVP NA
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risen1981✭✭still don't see why we cant keep the ultimate gained during morph.. i mean i'm still not more powerful in morph then as a human.
my own character has access to 2 whole toolbars and when i checked how much more stamina and armor i gained during morph its nearly nothing (stamina +30 and armor roughly +100)
The heal is rather nice but necessary since we actually have to be in front.
The dmg is nice but it also costs 400 ultimate, and yes it should be compared to other ultimates cause.. it IS an ultimate.
So lets compare it to let's say standard of might... twice (200 ultimate cost)...
And i gotta say im pretty impressed that you managed to kill bosses.. heck i didn't even get pass by the first group of mobs.
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Kypho✭✭✭✭You didnt tried out WW it seems. the timer is TOO *** SHORT. I want to play with WW not just kill 4 trashmob and spam devour button when cd is off, to eat eat eat eat. its unfun and crap. useless BS again whatever dmg it does its WORTHLESS!!!. And even if WW would do twice dmg as now with 2 min CD, is nothing compared to *** vampires. And they fix vampires NO! And I DONT WANT it to be more powerfull, I WANT TO *** PLAY WITH WW!!!!!!!!
And i cant because stupid zos just screwing it up like always. and even 2min is not that much. in pvp a ww would not survive long anyway lolzos......
Edited by Kypho on October 21, 2014 9:27PM1 -
Maou✭✭I'm starting to think I'm the only one who enjoys the immersion that comes with constantly having to devour fresh kills lol.3
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Thejollygreenone✭✭✭kaorunandrak wrote: »That's a problem FOR YOU, again WW is not meant to be the end all be all and we aren't supposed to be Vampires. Vamps are constantly getting called out to be nerfed that is not the focus werewolves need, we are looking for balance here, the problem is WW does not operate like any other ultimate in game and there fore comparing it to other ultimates is a major issue.
You can't sit there and say well I can chain bat swarm or banner of might, neither of these change your form grant a hidden skill bar and grant access to unique abilities on top of buffing basic stats. Our form is a unique power and with the right setup and mind set is currently in my eyes fairly over powered. I use a two-handed sword prior to transforming with the transformation and passive weapon damage increase I am over charged add the fact I am now effectively swinging that two handed sword as fast as a dual blade user if not faster, with the addition of bleed proc's, crit damage, poison damage, knockdown, fear, best heavy attack/stamina heal in game , a fairly massive self heal which is not using my main attack resource and the ability to feed on practically everything every 7 seconds. I am killing solo dungeon and public dungeon bosses in SECONDS after this patch, the debuff to our duration is justified we are capable of causing a tremendous amount of damage upfront and over time, inflicting insta-knock downs, and massive fear/off balance opportunities for our group. Or would you prefer a massive decrease in the damage and utility we just received just so you can stay in form a few more precious seconds?
Holy wall of text... As this seems to have been aimed at me, I'll respond directly. Firstly, the strawman arguments are everywhere, I don't even know where to start.
I'm not saying that with all the things you mentioned WW's are still BAD. Not once did I say that nor did I mean it. What I'm saying is merely that if we have to sacrifice an ultimate to use this alternate form, it better damn well be MORE effective than when not using the form. This is not the case, hands down. Numbers don't lie.
1800 single target bow dps on a mammoth
1200 single target werewolf dps on a mammoth
Is there anything else that needs to be said?
It's not bad, but if it's going to be compared to other ultimates, i.e. what they're doing with reducing the cost, at least make it ACTUALLY compare to using other ultimates in that slot. As of now, I should still be using flawless dawnbreaker on my stamina build for max dps, WW just doesn't have a place there. Nor am I really more survivable, especially if I ran a magicka build.
That's all I'm sayin. It needs to be a bit more worth it to justify the time reduction.Edited by Thejollygreenone on October 21, 2014 10:13PM2 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thejollygreenone wrote: »kaorunandrak wrote: »That's a problem FOR YOU, again WW is not meant to be the end all be all and we aren't supposed to be Vampires. Vamps are constantly getting called out to be nerfed that is not the focus werewolves need, we are looking for balance here, the problem is WW does not operate like any other ultimate in game and there fore comparing it to other ultimates is a major issue.
You can't sit there and say well I can chain bat swarm or banner of might, neither of these change your form grant a hidden skill bar and grant access to unique abilities on top of buffing basic stats. Our form is a unique power and with the right setup and mind set is currently in my eyes fairly over powered. I use a two-handed sword prior to transforming with the transformation and passive weapon damage increase I am over charged add the fact I am now effectively swinging that two handed sword as fast as a dual blade user if not faster, with the addition of bleed proc's, crit damage, poison damage, knockdown, fear, best heavy attack/stamina heal in game , a fairly massive self heal which is not using my main attack resource and the ability to feed on practically everything every 7 seconds. I am killing solo dungeon and public dungeon bosses in SECONDS after this patch, the debuff to our duration is justified we are capable of causing a tremendous amount of damage upfront and over time, inflicting insta-knock downs, and massive fear/off balance opportunities for our group. Or would you prefer a massive decrease in the damage and utility we just received just so you can stay in form a few more precious seconds?
Holy wall of text... As this seems to have been aimed at me, I'll respond directly. Firstly, the strawman arguments are everywhere, I don't even know where to start.
I'm not saying that with all the things you mentioned WW's are still BAD. Not once did I say that nor did I mean it. What I'm saying is merely that if we have to sacrifice an ultimate to use this alternate form, it better damn well be MORE effective than when not using the form. This is not the case, hands down. Numbers don't lie.
1800 single target bow dps on a mammoth
1200 single target werewolf dps on a mammoth
Is there anything else that needs to be said?
It's not bad, but if it's going to be compared to other ultimates, i.e. what they're doing with reducing the cost, at least make it ACTUALLY compare to using other ultimates in that slot. As of now, I should still be using flawless dawnbreaker on my stamina build for max dps, WW just doesn't have a place there. Nor am I really more survivable, especially if I ran a magicka build.
That's all I'm sayin. It needs to be a bit more worth it to justify the time reduction.
got a video of that 1.8k bow DPS vs a mammoth, using the same stuff as the 1.2k WW?I play every class in every situation. I love them all.1 -
Thejollygreenone✭✭✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Thejollygreenone wrote: »kaorunandrak wrote: »That's a problem FOR YOU, again WW is not meant to be the end all be all and we aren't supposed to be Vampires. Vamps are constantly getting called out to be nerfed that is not the focus werewolves need, we are looking for balance here, the problem is WW does not operate like any other ultimate in game and there fore comparing it to other ultimates is a major issue.
You can't sit there and say well I can chain bat swarm or banner of might, neither of these change your form grant a hidden skill bar and grant access to unique abilities on top of buffing basic stats. Our form is a unique power and with the right setup and mind set is currently in my eyes fairly over powered. I use a two-handed sword prior to transforming with the transformation and passive weapon damage increase I am over charged add the fact I am now effectively swinging that two handed sword as fast as a dual blade user if not faster, with the addition of bleed proc's, crit damage, poison damage, knockdown, fear, best heavy attack/stamina heal in game , a fairly massive self heal which is not using my main attack resource and the ability to feed on practically everything every 7 seconds. I am killing solo dungeon and public dungeon bosses in SECONDS after this patch, the debuff to our duration is justified we are capable of causing a tremendous amount of damage upfront and over time, inflicting insta-knock downs, and massive fear/off balance opportunities for our group. Or would you prefer a massive decrease in the damage and utility we just received just so you can stay in form a few more precious seconds?
Holy wall of text... As this seems to have been aimed at me, I'll respond directly. Firstly, the strawman arguments are everywhere, I don't even know where to start.
I'm not saying that with all the things you mentioned WW's are still BAD. Not once did I say that nor did I mean it. What I'm saying is merely that if we have to sacrifice an ultimate to use this alternate form, it better damn well be MORE effective than when not using the form. This is not the case, hands down. Numbers don't lie.
1800 single target bow dps on a mammoth
1200 single target werewolf dps on a mammoth
Is there anything else that needs to be said?
It's not bad, but if it's going to be compared to other ultimates, i.e. what they're doing with reducing the cost, at least make it ACTUALLY compare to using other ultimates in that slot. As of now, I should still be using flawless dawnbreaker on my stamina build for max dps, WW just doesn't have a place there. Nor am I really more survivable, especially if I ran a magicka build.
That's all I'm sayin. It needs to be a bit more worth it to justify the time reduction.
got a video of that 1.8k bow DPS vs a mammoth, using the same stuff as the 1.2k WW?
If you really need video proof, I guess I could go download fraps... Gunna take awhile to get something uploaded though.0 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thejollygreenone wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Thejollygreenone wrote: »kaorunandrak wrote: »That's a problem FOR YOU, again WW is not meant to be the end all be all and we aren't supposed to be Vampires. Vamps are constantly getting called out to be nerfed that is not the focus werewolves need, we are looking for balance here, the problem is WW does not operate like any other ultimate in game and there fore comparing it to other ultimates is a major issue.
You can't sit there and say well I can chain bat swarm or banner of might, neither of these change your form grant a hidden skill bar and grant access to unique abilities on top of buffing basic stats. Our form is a unique power and with the right setup and mind set is currently in my eyes fairly over powered. I use a two-handed sword prior to transforming with the transformation and passive weapon damage increase I am over charged add the fact I am now effectively swinging that two handed sword as fast as a dual blade user if not faster, with the addition of bleed proc's, crit damage, poison damage, knockdown, fear, best heavy attack/stamina heal in game , a fairly massive self heal which is not using my main attack resource and the ability to feed on practically everything every 7 seconds. I am killing solo dungeon and public dungeon bosses in SECONDS after this patch, the debuff to our duration is justified we are capable of causing a tremendous amount of damage upfront and over time, inflicting insta-knock downs, and massive fear/off balance opportunities for our group. Or would you prefer a massive decrease in the damage and utility we just received just so you can stay in form a few more precious seconds?
Holy wall of text... As this seems to have been aimed at me, I'll respond directly. Firstly, the strawman arguments are everywhere, I don't even know where to start.
I'm not saying that with all the things you mentioned WW's are still BAD. Not once did I say that nor did I mean it. What I'm saying is merely that if we have to sacrifice an ultimate to use this alternate form, it better damn well be MORE effective than when not using the form. This is not the case, hands down. Numbers don't lie.
1800 single target bow dps on a mammoth
1200 single target werewolf dps on a mammoth
Is there anything else that needs to be said?
It's not bad, but if it's going to be compared to other ultimates, i.e. what they're doing with reducing the cost, at least make it ACTUALLY compare to using other ultimates in that slot. As of now, I should still be using flawless dawnbreaker on my stamina build for max dps, WW just doesn't have a place there. Nor am I really more survivable, especially if I ran a magicka build.
That's all I'm sayin. It needs to be a bit more worth it to justify the time reduction.
got a video of that 1.8k bow DPS vs a mammoth, using the same stuff as the 1.2k WW?
If you really need video proof, I guess I could go download fraps... Gunna take awhile to get something uploaded though.
i just want to see, Curious how you are managing it. Bow DPS is really important to Stam builds since its kind of the only way to deal DPS at range.I play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
Thejollygreenone✭✭✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Thejollygreenone wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Thejollygreenone wrote: »kaorunandrak wrote: »That's a problem FOR YOU, again WW is not meant to be the end all be all and we aren't supposed to be Vampires. Vamps are constantly getting called out to be nerfed that is not the focus werewolves need, we are looking for balance here, the problem is WW does not operate like any other ultimate in game and there fore comparing it to other ultimates is a major issue.
You can't sit there and say well I can chain bat swarm or banner of might, neither of these change your form grant a hidden skill bar and grant access to unique abilities on top of buffing basic stats. Our form is a unique power and with the right setup and mind set is currently in my eyes fairly over powered. I use a two-handed sword prior to transforming with the transformation and passive weapon damage increase I am over charged add the fact I am now effectively swinging that two handed sword as fast as a dual blade user if not faster, with the addition of bleed proc's, crit damage, poison damage, knockdown, fear, best heavy attack/stamina heal in game , a fairly massive self heal which is not using my main attack resource and the ability to feed on practically everything every 7 seconds. I am killing solo dungeon and public dungeon bosses in SECONDS after this patch, the debuff to our duration is justified we are capable of causing a tremendous amount of damage upfront and over time, inflicting insta-knock downs, and massive fear/off balance opportunities for our group. Or would you prefer a massive decrease in the damage and utility we just received just so you can stay in form a few more precious seconds?
Holy wall of text... As this seems to have been aimed at me, I'll respond directly. Firstly, the strawman arguments are everywhere, I don't even know where to start.
I'm not saying that with all the things you mentioned WW's are still BAD. Not once did I say that nor did I mean it. What I'm saying is merely that if we have to sacrifice an ultimate to use this alternate form, it better damn well be MORE effective than when not using the form. This is not the case, hands down. Numbers don't lie.
1800 single target bow dps on a mammoth
1200 single target werewolf dps on a mammoth
Is there anything else that needs to be said?
It's not bad, but if it's going to be compared to other ultimates, i.e. what they're doing with reducing the cost, at least make it ACTUALLY compare to using other ultimates in that slot. As of now, I should still be using flawless dawnbreaker on my stamina build for max dps, WW just doesn't have a place there. Nor am I really more survivable, especially if I ran a magicka build.
That's all I'm sayin. It needs to be a bit more worth it to justify the time reduction.
got a video of that 1.8k bow DPS vs a mammoth, using the same stuff as the 1.2k WW?
If you really need video proof, I guess I could go download fraps... Gunna take awhile to get something uploaded though.
i just want to see, Curious how you are managing it. Bow DPS is really important to Stam builds since its kind of the only way to deal DPS at range.
no worries, understandable. We could also have a PM discussion on the subject if your looking for some tips. But I'm working on the video and will post it regardless, since I'm sure it will be helpful to the discussion. 0