Projectiles still breaking NB Cloak - 1.4.4

pmn100b16_ESO

To confirm what other players are saying. Before the 1.4 patch, NBs could hit cloak and any projectiles already cast would miss us. Since patch 1.4 if a player casts, then we hit cloak, the projectile hits us, and knocks us out of stealth. This is not working as intended because if there are 5 players all casting at the NB, all attempts to cloak and escape results in repetitive breaking of the cloak, making it useless as an escape skill.

An easy way to test this is to run into an enemy resource camp in cryodiil and engage the casters, then try and escape away with cloak, it will keep breaking.

Lionxoft

Dark Cloak made me reflect a DoT earlier and it even healed me... I don't even use structured entropy even further I don't even have that morph picked.

The combat log is on the bottom right corner. FTC also reported this as well as CLS.

kitsinni

Based on the bolding it seems like this is another NB nerf that they will just say "oh that is always how it was intended to work. Anyone getting daja vu .. leeching strikes. The big NB fix was .. oh it was always supposed to be broken we just fixed to tooltip.

Arsenic_Touch

kitsinni wrote: »

Based on the bolding it seems like this is another NB nerf that they will just say "oh that is always how it was intended to work. Anyone getting daja vu .. leeching strikes. The big NB fix was .. oh it was always supposed to be broken we just fixed to tooltip.

I hope not but I wouldn't be surprised.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

ITS suppose to be a vanish and was working before you messed it UP!

granted dots like venom arrow would break it but it was a vanish! wth is is now ???

kitsinni

inspiral1 wrote: »

ITS suppose to be a vanish and was working before you messed it UP!

granted dots like venom arrow would break it but it was a vanish! wth is is now ???

A wasted slot on the skill bar for a red headed step child of a class.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

if its not a vanish what is it suppose to do and what is its use, i actually dont understand?

Gorthax

their patch page has been added to waybackmachines list of websites to save screenshots of :P you are welcome lol lets see if we can start catching them in the act ^_< (should that be the case)

khele23eb17_ESO

Sometimes I just sit there, scratch my head and think: what the hell are they doing?

Samadhi

lordrichter wrote: »

This is what was originally posted. I still have this window open from when I first opened it:

Concealed Weapon (Veiled Strike morph): Your stealthed movement speed bonus is no longer removed if another player character casts Shadow Cloak while stealthed.
Shadow Cloak: Fixed an issue where this ability was removed when an enemy’s projectile missed you.

This is what it current says when I open a new window for this thread:

Concealed Weapon (Veiled Strike morph): Your stealthed movement speed bonus is no longer removed if another player character casts Shadow Cloak while stealthed.
Shadow Cloak: Fixed an issue where this ability was removed when an enemy’s projectile missed you.

Gave you an Insightful for this.
Thank you for keeping the original window open to document this.

Thralgaf

Any definition of cloak outside of a basic vanish will just be ZoS backpedaling.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Thralgaf wrote: »

Any definition of cloak outside of a basic vanish will just be ZoS backpedaling.

they probly realised they cant fix it without major rework so are now trying to fob us off

they need to bloody communicate and tell us what the hell it is, because im seriously starting to think that its now not a vanish.

Observant

Oh man am I glad I left my NB as mule.

Phinix1

I was the one that originally video-posted how 1.4 broke the cloak even worse. Then when they apparently either misread what I was saying or didn't make it to the end of the thread in their assessment of the problem (assuming projectiles only), I attempted to clarify in their known issues thread:

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Combat & Gameplay

• All projectiles are breaking Nightblades out of stealth, even if they miss.
  • STATUS: Working on a fix.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

As I attempted to point out in this thread, it is NOT only projectiles. Any ability with a cast time, or a quick series of hits, will cause the same problem.

For example, you can test this on mudcrabs. They do a very fast 2-hit melee attack. If you cloak after the first hit, the 2nd hit will break you out of stealth.

Also happens with Nightblade's Teleport Strike, 2H Wrecking Blow, etc.

Maybe the word "stealth" was what threw them off, even though I DID say "if you cloak." But reading the patch notes it seemed they understood. I mean why else would they say all projectiles were breaking NIGHTBLADES out of stealth? Wouldn't stealth breaks effect every class since every class can stealth?

Apparently it will be another patch before I can play my NB in PVP again. Sub will probably have lapsed by then.

ers101284b14_ESO

From reading this whole post all I see is night blades holding a cup and claiming the plates broken. Everyone agrees it broken but no one knows exactly how it's supposed to work. So @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ needs to just come in and explain it thoroughly

GrimMauKin

I'm on the European server, so no patch yet. Has this patch actually fixed anything? I'm also keen to know when the stealth radius bug is going to be fixed. I can't believe that I've persevered with this game so long (that's probably down to Bethseda's work) .

Zenimax just seem totally incapable of getting ESO working and seem to expect the subscriber to be the beta tester. This game has such potential, but Zenimax just can't seem to realise it.

kitsinni

I'm not sure if it is sad or funny that people still thinks ZOS cares at all about NB problems.

GnatB

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

So are they saying that cloak shouldn't break the projectiles path and you should be stuck getting hit with anything coming at you mid-cast anyway? assuming it doesn't miss on some other level, of course.

I'd be inclined to argue that's how it *should* work. Though apparently there is disagreement.

I think the first question, is what *is* invis supposed to do. A lot of people are saying "Here's how it used to work, let's make it like that", which could easily have not been how it's intended to work.

Personally, I'd be inclined to argue:
1. When you stealth/invis, all "cast time" abilities targetting you are interrupted.
2. Any already en route abilities, whether charges or projectiles, (or heck, melee swings) hit you as normal. You're "still there", you just aren't visible. So where you go *next* is unknown.
3. Damage of any sort doesn't break invis. (possibly not even stealth?) This includes the aforementioned en route abilities, but also includes damage of the AoE variety. (possibly some particular morphs or specially indicated abilities are exceptions?) Definitely includes all DoT's. Non-targetted healing also shouldn't break it (i.e. spells that affect "allies in an area" wouldn't break it, heals that affect an ally, or 2 allies, etc. would)
4. I have no problem with 360° blocking. This is an RPG, combat is an abstract. However, you should NOT be able to block attacks from stealth/invis. At all. Regardless of the direction the attacks come from. Similarly, it shouldn't actually matter from which direction the stealth attack is launched. Back/Front, shouldn't matter. If you're stealthed/invis and undetected, it should get full benefit regardless.


I don't particularly agree that invis should be/needs to be a form of mitigation. It should be a component to a powerful 1-2 attack. It should be a DPS ability, not a mitigation ability.

(And P.S. I do have a stealth based rogue character (who happens to be a NightBlade))

Kos

This thread made me change my mind. I was a PvP supporter but now I think ZOS are wasting their time. ZOS should put all effort to balance around PvE and scrap PvP, at least for some time. Close Cyrodill, fix the game.

khele23eb17_ESO

GnatB wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

So are they saying that cloak shouldn't break the projectiles path and you should be stuck getting hit with anything coming at you mid-cast anyway? assuming it doesn't miss on some other level, of course.

I'd be inclined to argue that's how it *should* work. Though apparently there is disagreement.

I think the first question, is what *is* invis supposed to do. A lot of people are saying "Here's how it used to work, let's make it like that", which could easily have not been how it's intended to work.

Personally, I'd be inclined to argue:
1. When you stealth/invis, all "cast time" abilities targetting you are interrupted.
2. Any already en route abilities, whether charges or projectiles, (or heck, melee swings) hit you as normal. You're "still there", you just aren't visible. So where you go *next* is unknown.
3. Damage of any sort doesn't break invis. (possibly not even stealth?) This includes the aforementioned en route abilities, but also includes damage of the AoE variety. (possibly some particular morphs or specially indicated abilities are exceptions?) Definitely includes all DoT's. Non-targetted healing also shouldn't break it (i.e. spells that affect "allies in an area" wouldn't break it, heals that affect an ally, or 2 allies, etc. would)
4. I have no problem with 360° blocking. This is an RPG, combat is an abstract. However, you should NOT be able to block attacks from stealth/invis. At all. Regardless of the direction the attacks come from. Similarly, it shouldn't actually matter from which direction the stealth attack is launched. Back/Front, shouldn't matter. If you're stealthed/invis and undetected, it should get full benefit regardless.


I don't particularly agree that invis should be/needs to be a form of mitigation. It should be a component to a powerful 1-2 attack. It should be a DPS ability, not a mitigation ability.

(And P.S. I do have a stealth based rogue character (who happens to be a NightBlade))

And what other mitigation ability do NBs have?

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Everyone, to be clear, the only edits we've made to the patch notes today is to add in the German and French links to their respective patch notes. We have not edited the content in any way.

We just tested the fix to Shadow Cloak and it appears to be working properly. There was an issue where projectiles that missed you were breaking you out of stealth, but this is no longer happening.

It is still happening. I've been testing it all morning since the server has been up.

Which monsters are you fighting to test this, @Lionxoft?

Any attack that used to miss us if we activated shadow cloak now lands and breaks us out of the cloak. This has made the ability practically useless as a defensive tool in PvE as monster now just hit us while in cloak preventing us from using from stealth only attacks.

Examples are skeletal knights, skeletal archers, zombies, any of the keep guards in cyrodiil, grey viper stalvarts, any mob that use a cast time ranged attack lands it and shadow cloak give no defense and so on.....

ferzalrwb17_ESO

Using cloak instead of dodge used to be a valid tactic for a stamina NB. Using that magicka pool to advantage. So that's definitely how it's always worked. Until now. They have NO CLUE what they are doing. It's absurd.

Everything with cloak and stealth is absolutely busted right now. Utterly broken in almost every way. I've put my NB to sleep because I honestly think they've busted it for good this time and will never fix it. My Templar with the massive resto buff is having a ball. I advise making a NB tank or rolling another class. You'll save yourself headaches.

Phinix1

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Using cloak instead of dodge used to be a valid tactic for a stamina NB. Using that magicka pool to advantage. So that's definitely how it's always worked. Until now. They have NO CLUE what they are doing. It's absurd.

Everything with cloak and stealth is absolutely busted right now. Utterly broken in almost every way. I've put my NB to sleep because I honestly think they've busted it for good this time and will never fix it. My Templar with the massive resto buff is having a ball. I advise making a NB tank or rolling another class. You'll save yourself headaches.

Same. I have NO CONFIDENCE in ZOS ever truly fixing this.

Right now I am basically waiting for the new solo games to come out.

GnatB

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

So are they saying that cloak shouldn't break the projectiles path and you should be stuck getting hit with anything coming at you mid-cast anyway? assuming it doesn't miss on some other level, of course.

I'd be inclined to argue that's how it *should* work. Though apparently there is disagreement.

I think the first question, is what *is* invis supposed to do. A lot of people are saying "Here's how it used to work, let's make it like that", which could easily have not been how it's intended to work.

Personally, I'd be inclined to argue:
1. When you stealth/invis, all "cast time" abilities targetting you are interrupted.
2. Any already en route abilities, whether charges or projectiles, (or heck, melee swings) hit you as normal. You're "still there", you just aren't visible. So where you go *next* is unknown.
3. Damage of any sort doesn't break invis. (possibly not even stealth?) This includes the aforementioned en route abilities, but also includes damage of the AoE variety. (possibly some particular morphs or specially indicated abilities are exceptions?) Definitely includes all DoT's. Non-targetted healing also shouldn't break it (i.e. spells that affect "allies in an area" wouldn't break it, heals that affect an ally, or 2 allies, etc. would)
4. I have no problem with 360° blocking. This is an RPG, combat is an abstract. However, you should NOT be able to block attacks from stealth/invis. At all. Regardless of the direction the attacks come from. Similarly, it shouldn't actually matter from which direction the stealth attack is launched. Back/Front, shouldn't matter. If you're stealthed/invis and undetected, it should get full benefit regardless.


I don't particularly agree that invis should be/needs to be a form of mitigation. It should be a component to a powerful 1-2 attack. It should be a DPS ability, not a mitigation ability.

(And P.S. I do have a stealth based rogue character (who happens to be a NightBlade))

And what other mitigation ability do NBs have?

1. Who says they have to have one?
2. Blur.
3. Pick weapon mitigation skill of choice.

Phinix1

GnatB wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

So are they saying that cloak shouldn't break the projectiles path and you should be stuck getting hit with anything coming at you mid-cast anyway? assuming it doesn't miss on some other level, of course.

I'd be inclined to argue that's how it *should* work. Though apparently there is disagreement.

I think the first question, is what *is* invis supposed to do. A lot of people are saying "Here's how it used to work, let's make it like that", which could easily have not been how it's intended to work.

Personally, I'd be inclined to argue:
1. When you stealth/invis, all "cast time" abilities targetting you are interrupted.
2. Any already en route abilities, whether charges or projectiles, (or heck, melee swings) hit you as normal. You're "still there", you just aren't visible. So where you go *next* is unknown.
3. Damage of any sort doesn't break invis. (possibly not even stealth?) This includes the aforementioned en route abilities, but also includes damage of the AoE variety. (possibly some particular morphs or specially indicated abilities are exceptions?) Definitely includes all DoT's. Non-targetted healing also shouldn't break it (i.e. spells that affect "allies in an area" wouldn't break it, heals that affect an ally, or 2 allies, etc. would)
4. I have no problem with 360° blocking. This is an RPG, combat is an abstract. However, you should NOT be able to block attacks from stealth/invis. At all. Regardless of the direction the attacks come from. Similarly, it shouldn't actually matter from which direction the stealth attack is launched. Back/Front, shouldn't matter. If you're stealthed/invis and undetected, it should get full benefit regardless.


I don't particularly agree that invis should be/needs to be a form of mitigation. It should be a component to a powerful 1-2 attack. It should be a DPS ability, not a mitigation ability.

(And P.S. I do have a stealth based rogue character (who happens to be a NightBlade))

And what other mitigation ability do NBs have?

1. Who says they have to have one?
2. Blur.
3. Pick weapon mitigation skill of choice.

Perhaps because every other class has either direct self heals or massive shields. Somehow a 15% chance to dodge seems a little imbalanced without SOME class-based equivalent defensive/escape ability.

Unfortunately ZOS has decided to nerf the cloak into useless. In PVP, before this 1.4 bomb they dropped on us, you could hit cloak and projectiles flying on their way to you would miss.

Now they hit you anyway and still frequently seem to break you out of cloak.

I've given up. Shadows of Mordor/Dragon Age can't come out soon enough.

Kego

4. Roll DK and Faceroll through Cyrodiil ?

khele23eb17_ESO

GnatB wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

So are they saying that cloak shouldn't break the projectiles path and you should be stuck getting hit with anything coming at you mid-cast anyway? assuming it doesn't miss on some other level, of course.

I'd be inclined to argue that's how it *should* work. Though apparently there is disagreement.

I think the first question, is what *is* invis supposed to do. A lot of people are saying "Here's how it used to work, let's make it like that", which could easily have not been how it's intended to work.

Personally, I'd be inclined to argue:
1. When you stealth/invis, all "cast time" abilities targetting you are interrupted.
2. Any already en route abilities, whether charges or projectiles, (or heck, melee swings) hit you as normal. You're "still there", you just aren't visible. So where you go *next* is unknown.
3. Damage of any sort doesn't break invis. (possibly not even stealth?) This includes the aforementioned en route abilities, but also includes damage of the AoE variety. (possibly some particular morphs or specially indicated abilities are exceptions?) Definitely includes all DoT's. Non-targetted healing also shouldn't break it (i.e. spells that affect "allies in an area" wouldn't break it, heals that affect an ally, or 2 allies, etc. would)
4. I have no problem with 360° blocking. This is an RPG, combat is an abstract. However, you should NOT be able to block attacks from stealth/invis. At all. Regardless of the direction the attacks come from. Similarly, it shouldn't actually matter from which direction the stealth attack is launched. Back/Front, shouldn't matter. If you're stealthed/invis and undetected, it should get full benefit regardless.


I don't particularly agree that invis should be/needs to be a form of mitigation. It should be a component to a powerful 1-2 attack. It should be a DPS ability, not a mitigation ability.

(And P.S. I do have a stealth based rogue character (who happens to be a NightBlade))

And what other mitigation ability do NBs have?

1. Who says they have to have one?
2. Blur.
3. Pick weapon mitigation skill of choice.

Thats just laughable. Do other classes need to 'pick a weapon mitigation skill of choice'? No, they have far superior skills than '15% chance to dodge' in their class lines.

Lionxoft

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

So are they saying that cloak shouldn't break the projectiles path and you should be stuck getting hit with anything coming at you mid-cast anyway? assuming it doesn't miss on some other level, of course.

I'd be inclined to argue that's how it *should* work. Though apparently there is disagreement.

I think the first question, is what *is* invis supposed to do. A lot of people are saying "Here's how it used to work, let's make it like that", which could easily have not been how it's intended to work.

Personally, I'd be inclined to argue:
1. When you stealth/invis, all "cast time" abilities targetting you are interrupted.
2. Any already en route abilities, whether charges or projectiles, (or heck, melee swings) hit you as normal. You're "still there", you just aren't visible. So where you go *next* is unknown.
3. Damage of any sort doesn't break invis. (possibly not even stealth?) This includes the aforementioned en route abilities, but also includes damage of the AoE variety. (possibly some particular morphs or specially indicated abilities are exceptions?) Definitely includes all DoT's. Non-targetted healing also shouldn't break it (i.e. spells that affect "allies in an area" wouldn't break it, heals that affect an ally, or 2 allies, etc. would)
4. I have no problem with 360° blocking. This is an RPG, combat is an abstract. However, you should NOT be able to block attacks from stealth/invis. At all. Regardless of the direction the attacks come from. Similarly, it shouldn't actually matter from which direction the stealth attack is launched. Back/Front, shouldn't matter. If you're stealthed/invis and undetected, it should get full benefit regardless.


I don't particularly agree that invis should be/needs to be a form of mitigation. It should be a component to a powerful 1-2 attack. It should be a DPS ability, not a mitigation ability.

(And P.S. I do have a stealth based rogue character (who happens to be a NightBlade))

And what other mitigation ability do NBs have?

1. Who says they have to have one?
2. Blur.
3. Pick weapon mitigation skill of choice.

Thats just laughable. Do other classes need to 'pick a weapon mitigation skill of choice'? No, they have far superior skills than '15% chance to dodge' in their class lines.

Medium armor active ability grants 15%+ dodge rating + 1% for each piece of medium armor equipped.

Phinix1

Lionxoft wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

So are they saying that cloak shouldn't break the projectiles path and you should be stuck getting hit with anything coming at you mid-cast anyway? assuming it doesn't miss on some other level, of course.

I'd be inclined to argue that's how it *should* work. Though apparently there is disagreement.

I think the first question, is what *is* invis supposed to do. A lot of people are saying "Here's how it used to work, let's make it like that", which could easily have not been how it's intended to work.

Personally, I'd be inclined to argue:
1. When you stealth/invis, all "cast time" abilities targetting you are interrupted.
2. Any already en route abilities, whether charges or projectiles, (or heck, melee swings) hit you as normal. You're "still there", you just aren't visible. So where you go *next* is unknown.
3. Damage of any sort doesn't break invis. (possibly not even stealth?) This includes the aforementioned en route abilities, but also includes damage of the AoE variety. (possibly some particular morphs or specially indicated abilities are exceptions?) Definitely includes all DoT's. Non-targetted healing also shouldn't break it (i.e. spells that affect "allies in an area" wouldn't break it, heals that affect an ally, or 2 allies, etc. would)
4. I have no problem with 360° blocking. This is an RPG, combat is an abstract. However, you should NOT be able to block attacks from stealth/invis. At all. Regardless of the direction the attacks come from. Similarly, it shouldn't actually matter from which direction the stealth attack is launched. Back/Front, shouldn't matter. If you're stealthed/invis and undetected, it should get full benefit regardless.


I don't particularly agree that invis should be/needs to be a form of mitigation. It should be a component to a powerful 1-2 attack. It should be a DPS ability, not a mitigation ability.

(And P.S. I do have a stealth based rogue character (who happens to be a NightBlade))

And what other mitigation ability do NBs have?

1. Who says they have to have one?
2. Blur.
3. Pick weapon mitigation skill of choice.

Thats just laughable. Do other classes need to 'pick a weapon mitigation skill of choice'? No, they have far superior skills than '15% chance to dodge' in their class lines.

Medium armor active ability grants 15%+ dodge rating + 1% for each piece of medium armor equipped.

That is also not a class skill. That means any other class can use that ON TOP of their class-based direct heals and shields, which NB does not have.

khele23eb17_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

So are they saying that cloak shouldn't break the projectiles path and you should be stuck getting hit with anything coming at you mid-cast anyway? assuming it doesn't miss on some other level, of course.

I'd be inclined to argue that's how it *should* work. Though apparently there is disagreement.

I think the first question, is what *is* invis supposed to do. A lot of people are saying "Here's how it used to work, let's make it like that", which could easily have not been how it's intended to work.

Personally, I'd be inclined to argue:
1. When you stealth/invis, all "cast time" abilities targetting you are interrupted.
2. Any already en route abilities, whether charges or projectiles, (or heck, melee swings) hit you as normal. You're "still there", you just aren't visible. So where you go *next* is unknown.
3. Damage of any sort doesn't break invis. (possibly not even stealth?) This includes the aforementioned en route abilities, but also includes damage of the AoE variety. (possibly some particular morphs or specially indicated abilities are exceptions?) Definitely includes all DoT's. Non-targetted healing also shouldn't break it (i.e. spells that affect "allies in an area" wouldn't break it, heals that affect an ally, or 2 allies, etc. would)
4. I have no problem with 360° blocking. This is an RPG, combat is an abstract. However, you should NOT be able to block attacks from stealth/invis. At all. Regardless of the direction the attacks come from. Similarly, it shouldn't actually matter from which direction the stealth attack is launched. Back/Front, shouldn't matter. If you're stealthed/invis and undetected, it should get full benefit regardless.


I don't particularly agree that invis should be/needs to be a form of mitigation. It should be a component to a powerful 1-2 attack. It should be a DPS ability, not a mitigation ability.

(And P.S. I do have a stealth based rogue character (who happens to be a NightBlade))

And what other mitigation ability do NBs have?

1. Who says they have to have one?
2. Blur.
3. Pick weapon mitigation skill of choice.

Thats just laughable. Do other classes need to 'pick a weapon mitigation skill of choice'? No, they have far superior skills than '15% chance to dodge' in their class lines.

Medium armor active ability grants 15%+ dodge rating + 1% for each piece of medium armor equipped.

Everyone can use that. Whats stopping other classes from taking that in addition to their superior class defense skills?