Nightblade's Stealth - Completely Broken? Possibly resolved?

Shadow-Fighter

same here, totally broken with stealth

i will bet, next month comes the critical bug on nightblade, confused

Nazon_Katts

I'm going to be here till the end. no matter how the end might present itself, nor if it wants me around. I'll be there. And I'm going to love it.

Dunno how I ended up there, I'm pretty sure I was just listening to a german album, but that's one hell of a station:


edit: it's a podcast apparently, still no clue how it imposed it on me. but i'm a sucker. it's fantastic.

double edit: apparently the last on earth to notice, just going by the names...

Nazon_Katts

But hey, I got to work my way up from here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaHYcuVhdJY

DE!RAIL!ING! FORDAGOOD!

Probitas

Most forums would limit that kind of post in a thread discussing a broken game code, with perhaps the Official LOTRO forums being an exception. Thread derailure is one of the tools to suppress complaints there and get threads locked.

bunnytrix

PLEASE keep this on topic!!!
If you aint got nothing to say about stealth why are you posting here ?

Please don't give them reasons to close this thread. Thanks.

Nazon_Katts

I hate to break it to you bunny, but this thread won't do any good. Neither have the plethora of other threads before. 'They' are not here. And 'they' work by metrics. In turn, they give a metric ton about us around here.

Basically, it's just a vent dumpster for negative energy. And it's at full capacity and about to overload.

bunnytrix

You aint breaking anything to me I'm afraid. I know how much these threads actually change anything where ZOS are concerned......but that's beside the point...

The stealth issue is pretty important to a lot of people, and we all know now that they changed it in 1.4 without letting us know, and have been lying about it since.
At least this thread serves to let the devs know..that we know... what they have done with stealth and how unhappy we are about it, but yes..I think we have all given up hope of any honest response from them about this issue....lol..or an honest response on any issue come to think of it.
I'd love to see stealth revert back to the way it was before 1.4 as I thought it worked really well but we may as well wave goodbye to the effective stealth we used to have and get used to the new totally broken stealth..

Desdemonte

Tried to sneak through some Craglorn quests last night.

Sneak still broken.

Vizier

Fact is:

1. They attempted to make stealth harder by increasing detection radius for all classes. This make stealth better for NB with abilities that enhance stealth. Especially for some races. A direct response regarding input and desires of NB community. (Sneak is overused and too effective among all classes)
2. They attempted to fix cloak by making it resist certain abilities and attacks from breaking it. Once again a direct response from input from the NB community. (And continue to work on)
3. ZOS has and does respond to these threads. It is wrong to suggest they are somehow using them as a means to reduce tensions without having to do anything or to assert they are intentionally lying or deceiving us regarding their intent for NB. They are not. They have been very clear as to what their intent is. They merely have not delivered on it yet. (I think they will but it's a more complex issue than we or they admit to.)

I do think they will eventually get to the bottom of it but will it be too little too late? Who knows...guess we'll see when we get there.

Grim13

Vizier wrote: »

Fact is:

1. They attempted to make stealth harder by increasing detection radius for all classes. This make stealth better for NB with abilities that enhance stealth. Especially for some races. A direct response regarding input and desires of NB community. (Sneak is overused and too effective among all classes)
2. They attempted to fix cloak by making it resist certain abilities and attacks from breaking it. Once again a direct response from input from the NB community. (And continue to work on)
3. ZOS has and does respond to these threads. It is wrong to suggest they are somehow using them as a means to reduce tensions without having to do anything or to assert they are intentionally lying or deceiving us regarding their intent for NB. They are not. They have been very clear as to what their intent is. They merely have not delivered on it yet. (I think they will but it's a more complex issue than we or they admit to.)

I do think they will eventually get to the bottom of it but will it be too little too late? Who knows...guess we'll see when we get there.

Fact is: you have no idea whether any of that is actually true or not. So, how about you stop being as baseless as the people you are accusing of it.

GreyRanger

Just to chime in, I have noticed getting detected much earlier and more often since 1.4. I had a lot of wonky results with Shadow Cloak and Stealth fighting Flame Atronachts (VR) in Auridon. I did not take data or make videos so I guess my experience can be discounted. Ah well, it is pretty frustrating.

I wonder if stealth and cloak will get any attention in today's patch.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

please actually comment on what has been said. Going back to ignoring us destroys whatever faith we might have built up due to you discussing the issue with us.

Vizier

Grim13 wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Fact is:

1. They attempted to make stealth harder by increasing detection radius for all classes. This make stealth better for NB with abilities that enhance stealth. Especially for some races. A direct response regarding input and desires of NB community. (Sneak is overused and too effective among all classes)
2. They attempted to fix cloak by making it resist certain abilities and attacks from breaking it. Once again a direct response from input from the NB community. (And continue to work on)
3. ZOS has and does respond to these threads. It is wrong to suggest they are somehow using them as a means to reduce tensions without having to do anything or to assert they are intentionally lying or deceiving us regarding their intent for NB. They are not. They have been very clear as to what their intent is. They merely have not delivered on it yet. (I think they will but it's a more complex issue than we or they admit to.)

I do think they will eventually get to the bottom of it but will it be too little too late? Who knows...guess we'll see when we get there.

Fact is: you have no idea whether any of that is actually true or not. So, how about you stop being as baseless as the people you are accusing of it.

Your actually trying to argue this? lols
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUaYbfKZIiA"]

It's pretty self evident if you've been paying attention. These things don't happen in a vacuum and for no reason. They are attempts at balancing. It's a fail to be sure until fixes actually work, but I'm at least going to give credit where it's due.

*corrected misspelling.

bunnytrix

I don't think we are going to hear anything more from mods or devs on this unfortunately. They either broke stealth with 1.4 and are too afraid to admit it cos of the ****storm it would create...
Or.. they purposely changed it without putting it in patch notes/letting us know..and are too afraid to admit that cos of the ****storm it would create.

Whatever they did..they then began to lie about how stealth works trying to somehow justify the broken state its been in since 1.4.
They are now trying to paint a picture of how stealth is supposed to work based on its post 1.4 broken state, when those of us who put massive amounts of time into stealthy play know intimately how it worked and that it has totally changed for the worse, and is nowhere near as effective as it used to be. It is much harder to play stealthy now, much harder to sneak past things you don't want to fight, much harder to get close enough for Concealed Weapon etc..
The fact that the only mod/dev response to this issue has been a post "explaining" to us how stealth is "now" supposed to work...which happens to be entirely different to how we know it used to work...says it all.

Spangla

Still not fixed - breaks when farting pathetic

bunnytrix

Spangla wrote: »

Still not fixed - breaks when farting pathetic

Lol...don't fart if you are sneaking up on something!

Palidon

bunnytrix wrote: »

I don't think we are going to hear anything more from mods or devs on this unfortunately. They either broke stealth with 1.4 and are too afraid to admit it cos of the ****storm it would create...
Or.. they purposely changed it without putting it in patch notes/letting us know..and are too afraid to admit that cos of the ****storm it would create.

Whatever they did..they then began to lie about how stealth works trying to somehow justify the broken state its been in since 1.4.
They are now trying to paint a picture of how stealth is supposed to work based on its post 1.4 broken state, when those of us who put massive amounts of time into stealthy play know intimately how it worked and that it has totally changed for the worse, and is nowhere near as effective as it used to be. It is much harder to play stealthy now, much harder to sneak past things you don't want to fight, much harder to get close enough for Concealed Weapon etc..
The fact that the only mod/dev response to this issue has been a post "explaining" to us how stealth is "now" supposed to work...which happens to be entirely different to how we know it used to work...says it all.

It is really sad when so many people report a issue and ZOS just completely ignores it or just plain fails to fix it. They will eventually destroy their own game.

Shadow-Fighter

the question is, did they ever played as nightblade ?

i think not

GrimMauKin

There are no Nightblade updates at all in the 1.4.5 patch (I'm on the European server so I'll have to wait and see what else they've broken).

raglau

GrimMauKin wrote: »

There are no Nightblade updates at all in the 1.4.5 patch (I'm on the European server so I'll have to wait and see what else they've broken).

Because of the utterly cackhanded way ZOS manage this beautiful game, you do end up half praying you DON'T get a change to your class on patch day. It's like Russian Roulette with these guys at the helm. Patch Russian Roulette!

I gave up with NB as ZOS cocked it up so irreparably - and they clearly don't even understand the class themselves - and rolled a Templar. I am just dreading the day I see a Templar change in a patch and they balls up another class!

reften

I've noticed a significant improvement...not sure it's still working as intended, but definitely works more often now.

Archie

oren74 wrote: »

I've noticed a significant improvement...not sure it's still working as intended, but definitely works more often now.

This is great news! Waiting for confirmation from others...

Sneak_Thief

oren74 wrote: »

I've noticed a significant improvement...not sure it's still working as intended, but definitely works more often now.

Yeah I do feel like my NB stealth is more balanced now, I have yet to do testing between the classes to see is NB stealth is still superior, but if anyone has a chance to test this please post your findings.

elowan

Just popped on for a brief test on my VR2 NB. There has definitely been a change in either the stealth radius or the NPC detection strength.

As for many NBs, Patch 1.4 caused a noticeable change in detection radius, even with my fully skill-pointed stealth-focused NB wood elf in 7x pieces of medium armor, and all passives. Pre-1.4, I could sneak right up behind (not in front, of course!) a mob and have the sneak icon change to "warning" only right behind them (and stay there, warning-but-not-detected, unless I came into their line of sight). This allowed me to use concealed weapon at my leisure, or (by extension), to sneak past groups of mobs, even in tight spaces, as long as I was careful about LoS.

When 1.4 dropped, there was a NOTICEABLE change in how stealthy my NB was. Mobs now started detecting me from 5-10 meters out, and I couldn't stop anywhere near them, even directly behind, or they'd detect me, and whip around. Sneaking past groups became an exercise in making very large, circular detours, because even with full Night's Silence gear (once they fixed it, ha!) plus concealed weapon on the bar, I could not get past a 3-man group if I were within 10 meters or so.

Now, perhaps they /intended/ to reduce the strength of stealthiness, but if so, they should say so clearly. Nothing in the patch notes suggested that an NB, even with all radius reducing passives, would be so easily detected. Stealth was playable in 1.4, it just wasn't as fun - I didn't feel like a stealthy assassin so much as a quick strike cobra, running in from the periphery. Nothing wrong with that, just not the playing style I signed up for.

With the latest patch, stealth radius / detection has definitely been altered, back towards the pre-1.4 play style. I agree with oren74 that it doesn't quite feel like a 100% return to pre-1.4, but it's DEFINITELY a change from 1.4. Mobs still detect me a bit further out than they used to, but I can now stand directly behind a VR2 (my NB is only VR2) mob, and maintain stealth.

I personally think that stealth should be possible for all characters (in step with the "play how you want" philosophy), but that NBs should have a notable advantage. Shadows and stealth are the bread and butter of the straight shadow-assassin style NB, and I think it's appropriate. To be absolutely clear, I don't say that as a 100% NB player, either. My main is a V10 sorc, and I have a VR2 DK as well. I don't feel like my nord sorc should be able to achieve the same level of stealthiness as my made-to-sneak wood elf NB.

Junkogen

elowan wrote: »

I personally think that stealth should be possible for all characters (in step with the "play how you want" philosophy), but that NBs should have a notable advantage. Shadows and stealth are the bread and butter of the straight shadow-assassin style NB, and I think it's appropriate. To be absolutely clear, I don't say that as a 100% NB player, either. My main is a V10 sorc, and I have a VR2 DK as well. I don't feel like my nord sorc should be able to achieve the same level of stealthiness as my made-to-sneak wood elf NB.

The problem is that only 2 races get a stealth bonus and they're both in the same alliance. Any other NB only gets the medium armor bonus. They should do something with the shadow passives or something to give all NBs a distinct advantage.

Grim13

Vizier wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Fact is:

1. They attempted to make stealth harder by increasing detection radius for all classes. This make stealth better for NB with abilities that enhance stealth. Especially for some races. A direct response regarding input and desires of NB community. (Sneak is overused and too effective among all classes)
2. They attempted to fix cloak by making it resist certain abilities and attacks from breaking it. Once again a direct response from input from the NB community. (And continue to work on)
3. ZOS has and does respond to these threads. It is wrong to suggest they are somehow using them as a means to reduce tensions without having to do anything or to assert they are intentionally lying or deceiving us regarding their intent for NB. They are not. They have been very clear as to what their intent is. They merely have not delivered on it yet. (I think they will but it's a more complex issue than we or they admit to.)

I do think they will eventually get to the bottom of it but will it be too little too late? Who knows...guess we'll see when we get there.

Fact is: you have no idea whether any of that is actually true or not. So, how about you stop being as baseless as the people you are accusing of it.

Your actually trying to argue this? lols
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUaYbfKZIiA"]

It's pretty self evident if you've been paying attention. These things don't happen in a vacuum and for no reason. They are attempts at balancing. It's a fail to be sure until fixes actually work, but I'm at least going to give credit were it's due.

Considering the amount of stealth related things they *** up last patch you're making quite the leap... While we'll never know for sure... I'd say ZOS' track record backs me up more than you.

1) is a complete guess on your part. total hilarity.

2) only they didn't fix it. they've made it worse... and caused many other stealth issues.

3) Yes, ZOS do occasionally communicate in these threads. However, "It is wrong to suggest they are somehow using them as a means to reduce tensions without having to do anything or to assert they are intentionally lying or deceiving us regarding their intent for NB. They are not. They have been very clear as to what their intent is. They merely have not delivered on it yet." is more guesswork. Truth is: giving a date for fixes... and then failing to fix them... and then failing to set a new date leaves A LOT of room open to lean towards them deceiving us. In fact, as I said above, their track record favors the cynical over you.

Gilvoth

elowan wrote: »

Just popped on for a brief test on my VR2 NB. There has definitely been a change in either the stealth radius or the NPC detection strength.

As for many NBs, Patch 1.4 caused a noticeable change in detection radius, even with my fully skill-pointed stealth-focused NB wood elf in 7x pieces of medium armor, and all passives. Pre-1.4, I could sneak right up behind (not in front, of course!) a mob and have the sneak icon change to "warning" only right behind them (and stay there, warning-but-not-detected, unless I came into their line of sight). This allowed me to use concealed weapon at my leisure, or (by extension), to sneak past groups of mobs, even in tight spaces, as long as I was careful about LoS.

When 1.4 dropped, there was a NOTICEABLE change in how stealthy my NB was. Mobs now started detecting me from 5-10 meters out, and I couldn't stop anywhere near them, even directly behind, or they'd detect me, and whip around. Sneaking past groups became an exercise in making very large, circular detours, because even with full Night's Silence gear (once they fixed it, ha!) plus concealed weapon on the bar, I could not get past a 3-man group if I were within 10 meters or so.

Now, perhaps they /intended/ to reduce the strength of stealthiness, but if so, they should say so clearly. Nothing in the patch notes suggested that an NB, even with all radius reducing passives, would be so easily detected. Stealth was playable in 1.4, it just wasn't as fun - I didn't feel like a stealthy assassin so much as a quick strike cobra, running in from the periphery. Nothing wrong with that, just not the playing style I signed up for.

With the latest patch, stealth radius / detection has definitely been altered, back towards the pre-1.4 play style. I agree with oren74 that it doesn't quite feel like a 100% return to pre-1.4, but it's DEFINITELY a change from 1.4. Mobs still detect me a bit further out than they used to, but I can now stand directly behind a VR2 (my NB is only VR2) mob, and maintain stealth.

I personally think that stealth should be possible for all characters (in step with the "play how you want" philosophy), but that NBs should have a notable advantage. Shadows and stealth are the bread and butter of the straight shadow-assassin style NB, and I think it's appropriate. To be absolutely clear, I don't say that as a 100% NB player, either. My main is a V10 sorc, and I have a VR2 DK as well. I don't feel like my nord sorc should be able to achieve the same level of stealthiness as my made-to-sneak wood elf NB.

you are correct and your post is what happens to me also, 1.4.4 definately took away stealth we did have, its no longer as good as it wa before (before was not realy good but atleast we had that, now it's gone)

Gilvoth

today i went into cloak invisible and went behind a boss and tried to use concealed weapon and it did not work, i was definately invisible cause i cast invis immediatly before that concealed wep atak and that boss spun around and acted as if he knew i was there the entire time, and the concealed wepon atack did not take effect.
normaly that would have put that boss into a stunned state and took atleast 1/8th of his health, thus allowing me to work on him for a while to take out as much of his health as possible before he came out of a stunned state, but nope that effect is now gone completely.

GwaynLoki

Didn't take the time to check it but above poster's and the quoted person's experience are what I was looking for. So it seems - no matter the behaviour of the "eye" - sneaking past or toward mobs HAS become more difficult.

MrMT

Seeing that it appears nightblade is no longer intended to be an extra stealthy class, I wonder what its unique style is meant to be. Siphoning?