ZoS, when will you back out the Night Silence/Dark Stalker nerf?

Asgari

tengri wrote: »

Adapt and move on or gtfo.

And for the record, yes, I have such a "travel set" that stacks with my vampire passive and lets me outrun horses while stealthed.
I like it a *** lot and sure gonna miss it.
However, it is overpowered and totally out of place and so obviously broken; was only a question when and not if it will go away.

As for returning mats costs... nah, not needed.
You got a lot out of that investment and now its life time has expired. Move on to exploit the next big thing while that one will last.

for further info, what character class are you using on this one that uses the night silence?

Kego

fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »

do u prefer to fight against someone using stealth speed bonus stacked or damage bonus stacked? or damage mitigation bonus stacked? do u rly think stealth speed is op? ppl two shots with other builds, man.... wake up

Well the difference isn't that huge.
With Night Silence you still get +Stamina, +Stamina Regen, + Weapon Crit.

And who does more DMG, the Assassin that can reach it's target in Time for an Ambush or the Assassin with more Attack Power that only sees the back of his victim riding away?


@‌ topic
Stacking of Dark Stalker and Armor Set Speed is a no go. Good fix @ZOS

onlinegamer1

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

As this thread has proven, 100% of the player base is in agreement that this nerf is unnecessary and violates your own previous statements about the stacking of out-of-combat stealth speed bonuses, found here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/125116/night-s-silence-concealment-sneak-speed-boost-bug

Quote from Gina:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Roger that - passing this one along. Thanks, and good find!

So, with this evidence now in your hands, and with the unanimous sentiment of the player-base against this change, I ask again, WHEN (not if) will you revert this nerf?

BEZDNA

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Since we have all agreed that this nerf is unneeded and will cause the failure of ESO due to 90% of the player-base unsubscribing if it goes live

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.... BEST JOKE EVER!

90% of the player-base don't read this forum at all, and 90% of those who read it, don't realy care about this incoming nerf at all.

reften

tengri wrote: »

Adapt and move on or gtfo.

And for the record, yes, I have such a "travel set" that stacks with my vampire passive and lets me outrun horses while stealthed.
I like it a *** lot and sure gonna miss it.
However, it is overpowered and totally out of place and so obviously broken; was only a question when and not if it will go away.

As for returning mats costs... nah, not needed.
You got a lot out of that investment and now its life time has expired. Move on to exploit the next big thing while that one will last.

The voice of reason.

MorHawk

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Since we have all agreed that this nerf is unneeded and will cause the failure of ESO due to 90% of the player-base unsubscribing if it goes live, I was curious to know when you will back out/revert this nerf?

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

This thread is to discuss the impending end of ESO as an MMORPG based on whether this nerf is reversed in time or not.

Holy hyperbole, Batman.

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

As this thread has proven, 100% of the player base is in agreement that this nerf is unnecessary.

So, with...the unanimous sentiment of the player-base against this change, I ask again, WHEN (not if) will you revert this nerf?

Oh wow. Really, wow. A thread full of nothing but people telling you to get over it has somehow increased the percentage of people who agree with you to 100% now?

I genuinely think this level of trolling should result in a ban. Just a temporary one, at least.

Kypho

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Since we have all agreed that this nerf is unneeded and will cause the failure of ESO due to 90% of the player-base unsubscribing if it goes live, I was curious to know when you will back out/revert this nerf?

Thanks.

So you say that 90% of player base, unsubbing because they ballance game to be less vampire wars überspeed stealth online? Vampirism should be removed completly because its not elder scrolls. so 90% are happy to play favor of the month crap and doesnt like ballance? uhh... this game has the worst ballance and thats why it will fail, not because weak and bad ppl lose their obv. OP craps.
Grow up..... play fair.... this is Elder Scrolls game not some Vampire BS.... next will be Zombie players or wth...

Ok. lets go devs and make dodge stack. make better armor with dodge, not 20% make 70% and make it stack with medium armor skill. So 92% (i think full medium gives 22% nonstacking dodge) would be good.

hamon

Kypho wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Since we have all agreed that this nerf is unneeded and will cause the failure of ESO due to 90% of the player-base unsubscribing if it goes live, I was curious to know when you will back out/revert this nerf?

Thanks.

So you say that 90% of player base, unsubbing because they ballance game to be less vampire wars überspeed stealth online? Vampirism should be removed completly because its not elder scrolls. so 90% are happy to play favor of the month crap and doesnt like ballance? uhh... this game has the worst ballance and thats why it will fail, not because weak and bad ppl lose their obv. OP craps.
Grow up..... play fair.... this is Elder Scrolls game not some Vampire BS.... next will be Zombie players or wth...

Ok. lets go devs and make dodge stack. make better armor with dodge, not 20% make 70% and make it stack with medium armor skill. So 92% (i think full medium gives 22% nonstacking dodge) would be good.

but they are leaving everything else that stacks alone, so wots your point? i agree tho stop everything stacking from passives and sets.. thats only fair ye?

Kypho

its just a small issue, thats right.
there are more, bigger problems than speed stacking.

BALLANCE you ... zos BALLANCE your game. templars and DKs.... gosh zos you are ret...ed. they need nerf first place not speed. then vampirism.
i guess next patch will double templar healing... and shield... .... zos...

onlinegamer1

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

still waiting for a reply.

xillix666

No they won't, being able to "speedhack" in stealth by stacking speed is not intended, use a mount like everyone else, that's what they are there for.

Stacking anything in this game will get abilities nerfed and rebalanced, learn to play the game as a balanced toon not go all out on something, or spam 1 skill, it's going to be nerfed if it's overpowered.

hamon

xillix666 wrote: »

No they won't, being able to "speedhack" in stealth by stacking speed is not intended, use a mount like everyone else, that's what they are there for.

Stacking anything in this game will get abilities nerfed and rebalanced, learn to play the game as a balanced toon not go all out on something, or spam 1 skill, it's going to be nerfed if it's overpowered.

ok i,ll be happy to accept this removal of stacking if they remove cost reduction stacking from passives and warlock/seducers, and all the other stacking passives with sets...

that would be fair , removing them from one and leaving all others is disgracefull , just cos you dont happen to use them or feel butthurt cos others do doesnt make it any more fair.

Sasky

hamon wrote: »

ok i,ll be happy to accept this removal of stacking if they remove cost reduction stacking from passives and warlock/seducers, and all the other stacking passives with sets...

that would be fair , removing them from one and leaving all others is disgracefull , just cos you dont happen to use them or feel butthurt cos others do doesnt make it any more fair.

Well then, don't forget to remove stacking of magicka and stamina. I hear that lets people do really high amounts of damage.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Since we have all agreed that this nerf is unneeded and will cause the failure of ESO due to 90% of the player-base unsubscribing if it goes live, I was curious to know when you will back out/revert this nerf?

Thanks.

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

As this thread has proven, 100% of the player base is in agreement that this nerf is unnecessary and violates your own previous statements about the stacking of out-of-combat stealth speed bonuses, found here:

First of all, I do not agree with you. So I do not belong to 90% nor 100% of your sample, nor you represent my views regarding the nerf.

According to the posts in this discussion the significant majority but two (you included) complain for this nerf.

And I was speaking tonight about it at guild chat, where more than 50 people cheering for the "nerf". For no other reason as the current mechanic is broken to the annoyance of the significant majority of players.

You cannot have someone running faster than horses while stealth. Full stop.
We had one NB the other night, outrun 2 Sorcerers who were chasing him with BE!!!!

Is not fair, is not balanced and if you do not like it, please spare us and go play something else. Spoiled Whiners Online, is probably the game for you.

hamon

Sasky wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

ok i,ll be happy to accept this removal of stacking if they remove cost reduction stacking from passives and warlock/seducers, and all the other stacking passives with sets...

that would be fair , removing them from one and leaving all others is disgracefull , just cos you dont happen to use them or feel butthurt cos others do doesnt make it any more fair.

Well then, don't forget to remove stacking of magicka and stamina. I hear that lets people do really high amounts of damage.

agreed if they remove stacking of one lot of passives. then look at them all or leave them alone.

Crowzer

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

still waiting for a reply.

It seems they don't care.

Asgari

Crowzer wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

still waiting for a reply.

It seems they don't care.

adding a +1 to this.

xMovingTarget

ViciousWayz wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

so you want a cheap way to travel faster than anybody who paid 42k gold + 50x250 gold + 50 days of time?

There should be a reason for Horses ingame. Also vampirism is out of hand. You get way too much benefit for being a vamp. Especially in PvP. This needs to stop. I dont wanna play [snip] "Vampire: The Masquerade". I wanna play The Elder Scrolls Online!

And in TES the vampires have always been a minority. Not a majority as it is here. This just brings it more in line and even makes you think of staying a vamp or not. Its still OP as hell.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Again with the crying, "Vampyrs r 2 OP!!!1!"

The fire damage alone makes up for the fact that being a vampire....wait for it *GASP* gives you some advantages.

What do you people want? A skill line that is nothing but a detriment so you can feel all powerful as mortals? Where in any vampire mythos does it say anything even remotely close to that?

The things that make Vampire OP has absolutely NOTHING to do with Vampire. It has to do with the Class skill lines and in rare cases other skill lines that THAT particular player happens to have.

For instance, if the vampire is a Sorcerer - he can put points in the Power Stone passive that BLANKET reduces the cost of Ultimate abilities by 15%.

If that person happens to be an active Emperor, they get +100% Ultimate gain with the Authority Passive. THEN if they put points into Combat Frenzy they can gain 25 Ultimate for every player they've killed.

Hypothetically you could also tack on Banish the Wicked from the fighters guild that will give an additional 9 Ultimate when they kill enemy players that happen to be Vampires or Werewolves if they have the Skilled Tracker passive.

Then you can tack on Invigorating Drain as the their Health Drain morph which also gives Ultimate as it gives health.

Combine ALL of this with the benefits to Magicka and Magicka Regen of wearing Light Armor and the defensive bonuses of maxing out Sword and Board and you have an UNSTOPPABLE force.

NONE of which is the fault of the Vampire skill line.


/dropmic

Crying? I am not even playing PvP that much. Its just boring to PvP when 90% you fight against are vamps and batswarms everywhere

I am a DK. So i cant care less about Vamps. I am just bored of em. Seems the downsides dont do anything or infact are even way to weak compared to the bonus. Otherwise there wouldnt be so many of em. It just makes the game boring. It should be a tough decision to go vamp or not. The passives alone dont would make me think twice to go vamp. At least in PvP.

For PvE i dont care at all. I just dont want em in my Guild. You wanna go Trials with us? Drop your Vamp!
They die too fast. if they dont they stacked all fire res. And with that they lack DPS/Healing. (spell/weapon damage glyphs)

Vamps die too fast? LOLLL a good player can wreck you with and without Vamp, that is most likely why you don't step into Cyrodiil. You can run trials amazingly as vamps and without... fire resist glyph is needed yes (unless you're a dark elf).

Keep that in mind when talons takes a major hit, if you don't think talons and green dragon and all of those are ridiculously crazy, then you and I play two different DKs. Not that I mind it, I mean I'd rather them find more creative ways to balance classes but DK is far from balanced in line with the rest and at first I thought it was BS since I don't have a problem killing them but when I play a DK I am unstoppable... then again maybe I'm a much better player than you.

And LOL @ saying you don't want them in your guild, then don't recruit them. Who the hell would want to be in some nobody guild where the leader of it cries on the forums about wahhhhh I don't want them in my guild, they have a different method of fighting wahhhhhhh.

#L2P

This makes me laugh I dont recruite at all. People come to us and ask to join. Ask whoever you want an EU. Ask em if i am a noob Player.

Why do you make a fool out of yourself? Not one point of your post speaks truth about me nor my guild. I never said i cant beat a vamp mimimi. I can. I am just bored of em. like i said in my previous post.
Maybe you should read better before you post such BS. And yes. In Trials they die too fast in certain fights(Mage). If they dont, they lack dps and healing. Thats why we dont want em. If you dont like it, i dont care.

Also i never said DK is weak etc. But yea, reading is hard for some ppl

rophez_ESO

They won't back it out. If ZOS wanted people moving that fast in stealth, then they'd have people moving even faster out of stealth. Horses would be twice as fast as they are now. It's the game design.

phreatophile

Kypho wrote: »

Vampirism should be removed completly because its not elder scrolls. so 90% are happy to play favor of the month crap and doesnt like ballance? uhh... this game has the worst ballance and thats why it will fail, not because weak and bad ppl lose their obv. OP craps.
Grow up..... play fair.... this is Elder Scrolls game not some Vampire BS.... next will be Zombie players or wth...

Ok. lets go devs and make dodge stack. make better armor with dodge, not 20% make 70% and make it stack with medium armor skill. So 92% (i think full medium gives 22% nonstacking dodge) would be good.

I take it you've not played a lot of Elder Scrolls Games. Vampirism has been a feature for as long as I can remember; certainly the last 3 Game of the Year Elder Scrolls titles.

As to Dodge... the measly bit of dodge rating we get for an active skill is so low it ought to be an always on passive.

Grim13

It's been a rough ride as a NB.

-Many of our skills are still bugged and have been since beta. Cloak... sigh.
-There've been failed and then ignored promises from ZOS. 1.2.x fix, anyone?
-Any NB attempting to play a med armr / stamina build suffers from it's weaknesses comparatively to the magicka builds.
-...

The one bit of love we've received is the speed available to us through Night's Silence + Vamp + Concealed Weapon.

..And the first 2 ANYONE can have, ffs.

Meanwhile, PvP is slowly being eroded by the shield stacking / mitigation horseshit, causing an ever increasing number of players to become invulnerable,... but hey... let's nerf the very tiny percentage of players who finally have some god damned joy in their PvP lives! Eh, Betamax!?

NOT TO MENTION THE SPEED BONUS CEASES AS SOON AS YOU'RE DISCOVERED!

Oh no! Scary OP power.

Braddass

Some of you are acting like this is a NB nerf. It is not. If anything, it is a Vampire nerf.... and that is never a bad thing.

Seriously, I don't think it is a nerf so much as making it clear that it was meant to be a reduction in the stealth penalty, not a way to win the Kentucky derby (without a horse).

Samadhi

Braddass wrote: »

...

Seriously, I don't think it is a nerf so much as making it clear that it was meant to be a reduction in the stealth penalty,...

If they change the set bonus to reduce the Sneak speed penalty, instead of increasing Sneak speed, it will be a nerf.

Currently a human character receives an increase of 36% to their speed while Sneaking by wearing this set.

If this bonus is changed to 60% reduction of Sneak speed penalty, instead of its current 60% increase to sneak speed, then the bonus a human character receives from this set will drop to 24% instead of the current 36%.

For human characters, wearing the set already does not make them as fast as a vampire is with just the Dark Stalker passive and no other bonuses.
Changing this set to reduce Sneak speed penalty will further penalize human players with an additional 12% reduction from the current bonus on Live.

Sasky

hamon wrote: »

Sasky wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

ok i,ll be happy to accept this removal of stacking if they remove cost reduction stacking from passives and warlock/seducers, and all the other stacking passives with sets...

that would be fair , removing them from one and leaving all others is disgracefull , just cos you dont happen to use them or feel butthurt cos others do doesnt make it any more fair.

Well then, don't forget to remove stacking of magicka and stamina. I hear that lets people do really high amounts of damage.

agreed if they remove stacking of one lot of passives. then look at them all or leave them alone.

Just to clarify, @hamon‌, that was sarcasm. Thought it was obvious from how fundamental magicka/stamina stacking are to the game, but I'll spell it out. Everyone would be stuck at ~1.3k of each stat and couldn't increase it, severely limiting resource uptime, damage, etc.

Look at what the values get you when stacking. Cost reduction between full LA and seducer's gets you ~30% reduction. 60-100% reduction you'd have an argument (and it was an issue early on with ultimate reduction.) Stacking the stalker + night's silence gets you at least a 100% boost in stealth speed and more importantly makes it faster than you can run, sprint, or travel on most horses. It's patently absurd that you can stealth faster than most horses, and personally I feel stealth should never even pass sprint speed. You're supposed to suffer a speed penalty to take the extra time to not get spotted, and that you'd actually slow down to stand up and sprint is ridiculous.

hamon

Sasky wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Sasky wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

ok i,ll be happy to accept this removal of stacking if they remove cost reduction stacking from passives and warlock/seducers, and all the other stacking passives with sets...

that would be fair , removing them from one and leaving all others is disgracefull , just cos you dont happen to use them or feel butthurt cos others do doesnt make it any more fair.

Well then, don't forget to remove stacking of magicka and stamina. I hear that lets people do really high amounts of damage.

agreed if they remove stacking of one lot of passives. then look at them all or leave them alone.

Just to clarify, @hamon‌, that was sarcasm. Thought it was obvious from how fundamental magicka/stamina stacking are to the game, but I'll spell it out. Everyone would be stuck at ~1.3k of each stat and couldn't increase it, severely limiting resource uptime, damage, etc.

Look at what the values get you when stacking. Cost reduction between full LA and seducer's gets you ~30% reduction. 60-100% reduction you'd have an argument (and it was an issue early on with ultimate reduction.) Stacking the stalker + night's silence gets you at least a 100% boost in stealth speed and more importantly makes it faster than you can run, sprint, or travel on most horses. It's patently absurd that you can stealth faster than most horses, and personally I feel stealth should never even pass sprint speed. You're supposed to suffer a speed penalty to take the extra time to not get spotted, and that you'd actually slow down to stand up and sprint is ridiculous.

but what your argouing against is stacking to max one feature.

for example theres a video of a sorc whos completely stacked weapon damage. they can get huge hits from a 2 hand sword from stealth.

now thats stacking every bit of weapon damage possible. but what makes it fair is they have to trade off lots of stuff to get this , this is fine with me ,

BE blitz type sorcs (BOLT + SWARM ) stack reduction and regen to the max to be able to spam BE far more than should be possible by means of seducers+warlock+ LA pasives + rings and so on.
Again its an extreme build but with trade offs (not nearly enough imo)

so for uber stealthing , its another extreme build with trade offs.

vamp+ NS with the vamp trade offs and the inability to get any other bonus's like warlocks of seducers.

so if one extreme build made through stacking is not ok why are the others not being looked at????? in the name of fairness.

but even at that out of my 3 examples of extreme builds THE speed one is the only one THAT HAS NO COMBAT USE.
yet folk like you just keep saying , its got to go cos it doesnt make sense or its not logical ,, pure crap

Iorail

Sasky wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Sasky wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

ok i,ll be happy to accept this removal of stacking if they remove cost reduction stacking from passives and warlock/seducers, and all the other stacking passives with sets...

that would be fair , removing them from one and leaving all others is disgracefull , just cos you dont happen to use them or feel butthurt cos others do doesnt make it any more fair.

Well then, don't forget to remove stacking of magicka and stamina. I hear that lets people do really high amounts of damage.

agreed if they remove stacking of one lot of passives. then look at them all or leave them alone.

Just to clarify, @hamon‌, that was sarcasm. Thought it was obvious from how fundamental magicka/stamina stacking are to the game, but I'll spell it out. Everyone would be stuck at ~1.3k of each stat and couldn't increase it, severely limiting resource uptime, damage, etc.

Look at what the values get you when stacking. Cost reduction between full LA and seducer's gets you ~30% reduction. 60-100% reduction you'd have an argument (and it was an issue early on with ultimate reduction.) Stacking the stalker + night's silence gets you at least a 100% boost in stealth speed and more importantly makes it faster than you can run, sprint, or travel on most horses. It's patently absurd that you can stealth faster than most horses, and personally I feel stealth should never even pass sprint speed. You're supposed to suffer a speed penalty to take the extra time to not get spotted, and that you'd actually slow down to stand up and sprint is ridiculous.

so you want the cake and eat too, right? If is not ok to stack one, it's not ok to stack any, that's fair, right?

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO

I stated in another thread that perhaps a better approach than preventing that stacking all-together would for a Speed stat to be calculated and a soft-cap imposed on it. It could have been a low enough soft cap to reduce the speed of the people stacking DS and NS but still provide a noticeable speed buff.

I still do not think the way the stacking functions on live should remain the way it is; the movement speeds are too ridiculous (thought to be honest I probably would not complain if the stacking was left untouched).

But @hamon, those other passives that are getting stacked DO have soft-caps, so they only stack up to a certain point before it isn't wort it anymore. I'm guessing whatever Speed mechanics they have going on behind the scenes did not have anything similar in place. The all-or-none argument for passive stacking, I feel, only applies if all things are equal, which they are not since the stats function differently.

Morticielle

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Since we have all agreed that this nerf is unneeded and will cause the failure of ESO due to 90% of the player-base unsubscribing if it goes live, I was curious to know when you will back out/revert this nerf?

Thanks.

If whiners and threatening emos like you would leave TESO, it would actually be a good thing. So I wish you godspeed and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

@Zenimax: Good nerf! Running faster than a racing horse while being in stealth is totally ridiculous - and so are people who cry about this nerf!

hamon

Morticielle wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Since we have all agreed that this nerf is unneeded and will cause the failure of ESO due to 90% of the player-base unsubscribing if it goes live, I was curious to know when you will back out/revert this nerf?

Thanks.

If whiners and threatening emos like you would leave TESO, it would actually be a good thing. So I wish you godspeed and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

@Zenimax: Good nerf! Running faster than a racing horse while being in stealth is totally ridiculous - and so are people who cry about this nerf!

you clearly don't understand the concept of irony do you? you cant moan at folk about whining when your sig is a perma whine that appears every time you comment on anything..... Duh

Artemiisia

we all agree OP writes........

read this OP

NO WE DONT