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Extremely Disappointed - Storm Atranoch Nerf

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  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.

    I have lost count of the number of times that you have reversed your opinion on how good the taunt was. First you said that it was the only decent tanking ability the sorcerers had and the removal was doom for tanking sorcerers. Now you have stated several times that the taunt was not that great, so why does it matter so much?

    The reason that it is not the preferred tanking method is that it works on the majority of the content, not the most difficult content. It makes experience farming more efficient for example.

    Also, about sorcerer tanking, the fact that it can tank in light armour and effectively hardcap both spell resistance and physical resistance while in light armour could be considered its tanking strength right? In no way is the sorcerer underperforming as a tank now that I think on it. You will have more expensive stamina costs for blocking though.
    Edited by Persephonius on August 8, 2014 5:54AM
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.

    I have lost count of the number of times that you have reversed your opinion on how good the taunt was. First you said that it was the only decent tanking ability the sorcerers had and the removal was doom for tanking sorcerers. Now you have stated several times that the taunt was not that great, so why does it matter so much?

    The reason that it is not the preferred tanking method is that it works on the majority of the content, not the most difficult content. It makes experience farming more efficient for example.

    Also, about sorcerer tanking, the fact that it can tank in light armour and effectively hardcap both spell resistance and physical resistance while in light armour could be considered its tanking strength right? In no way is the sorcerer underperforming as a tank now that I think on it.
    That is a perk, yes. Other classes have other perks, too. Other classes get to fill up their bars.
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.

    I have lost count of the number of times that you have reversed your opinion on how good the taunt was. First you said that it was the only decent tanking ability the sorcerers had and the removal was doom for tanking sorcerers. Now you have stated several times that the taunt was not that great, so why does it matter so much?

    The reason that it is not the preferred tanking method is that it works on the majority of the content, not the most difficult content. It makes experience farming more efficient for example.

    Also, about sorcerer tanking, the fact that it can tank in light armour and effectively hardcap both spell resistance and physical resistance while in light armour could be considered its tanking strength right? In no way is the sorcerer underperforming as a tank now that I think on it.
    That is a perk, yes. Other classes have other perks, too. Other classes get to fill up their bars.

    Ok, so you just stated that the sorcerer has a tanking perk that is not related to an absent tanking ultimate :wink: Which is the opposite of what you stated before.
    Edited by Persephonius on August 8, 2014 5:58AM
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.

    I have lost count of the number of times that you have reversed your opinion on how good the taunt was. First you said that it was the only decent tanking ability the sorcerers had and the removal was doom for tanking sorcerers. Now you have stated several times that the taunt was not that great, so why does it matter so much?

    The reason that it is not the preferred tanking method is that it works on the majority of the content, not the most difficult content. It makes experience farming more efficient for example.

    Also, about sorcerer tanking, the fact that it can tank in light armour and effectively hardcap both spell resistance and physical resistance while in light armour could be considered its tanking strength right? In no way is the sorcerer underperforming as a tank now that I think on it.
    That is a perk, yes. Other classes have other perks, too. Other classes get to fill up their bars.

    Ok, so you just stated that the sorcerer has a tanking perk that is not related to an absent tanking ultimate :wink: Which is the opposite of what you stated before.
    I never said that Sorcerers had zero tanking upsides.
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It sounds to me that you are one the players I am speaking of, and is why you are so vocal on such a trivial ultimate adjustment.
    No, I have never done this before because it is not a viable means of tanking veteran dungeons. The Storm Atranoch could hold aggro and survive for a few seconds in a pinch, but it could not be the group's main tank.

    I am vocal about this change because I have literally no useful ultimate to put on my bar now. I may as well put nothing on my bar. That is a problem.

    No useful ultimate? The atronach is still useful for you without the taunt while you are tanking. It will damage the boss right? And more importantly, you will still have aggro while the atronach attacks the boss. To me, this seems fine.
    It is not the tank's job to do damage.

    Hey. if you can damage the boss in a way that does not impede your tanking, seems a gain to me.
    Edited by Persephonius on August 8, 2014 6:01AM
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.

    I have lost count of the number of times that you have reversed your opinion on how good the taunt was. First you said that it was the only decent tanking ability the sorcerers had and the removal was doom for tanking sorcerers. Now you have stated several times that the taunt was not that great, so why does it matter so much?

    The reason that it is not the preferred tanking method is that it works on the majority of the content, not the most difficult content. It makes experience farming more efficient for example.

    Also, about sorcerer tanking, the fact that it can tank in light armour and effectively hardcap both spell resistance and physical resistance while in light armour could be considered its tanking strength right? In no way is the sorcerer underperforming as a tank now that I think on it.
    That is a perk, yes. Other classes have other perks, too. Other classes get to fill up their bars.

    Ok, so you just stated that the sorcerer has a tanking perk that is not related to an absent tanking ultimate :wink: Which is the opposite of what you stated before.
    I never said that Sorcerers had zero tanking upsides.

    Erm, you stated that sorcerers have very limited tanking abilities, do I need to quote your statements again?
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It sounds to me that you are one the players I am speaking of, and is why you are so vocal on such a trivial ultimate adjustment.
    No, I have never done this before because it is not a viable means of tanking veteran dungeons. The Storm Atranoch could hold aggro and survive for a few seconds in a pinch, but it could not be the group's main tank.

    I am vocal about this change because I have literally no useful ultimate to put on my bar now. I may as well put nothing on my bar. That is a problem.

    No useful ultimate? The atronach is still useful for you without the taunt while you are tanking. It will damage the boss right? And more importantly, you will still have aggro while the atronach attacks the boss. To me, this seems fine.
    It is not the tank's job to do damage.

    Hey. if you can damage the boss in a way that does not impede your tanking, seems a gain to me.
    DPS can slot abilities that help tanks mitigate damage, but you won't find a single guide saying to do so.
    Erm, you stated that sorcerers have very limited tanking abilities, do I need to quote your statements again?
    Please do so.
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    I have already gone through the list of Sorcorer abilities. There are very few useful - far fewer than other classes - for boss tanking (trash doesn't matter, everyone can go DPS).

    But this isn't necessarily about all abilities, this is just about ultimates. There are zero non-PvP ultimates for boss tanking available to Sorcorer tanks.


    ^^
    Edited by Persephonius on August 8, 2014 6:14AM
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It sounds to me that you are one the players I am speaking of, and is why you are so vocal on such a trivial ultimate adjustment.
    No, I have never done this before because it is not a viable means of tanking veteran dungeons. The Storm Atranoch could hold aggro and survive for a few seconds in a pinch, but it could not be the group's main tank.

    I am vocal about this change because I have literally no useful ultimate to put on my bar now. I may as well put nothing on my bar. That is a problem.

    No useful ultimate? The atronach is still useful for you without the taunt while you are tanking. It will damage the boss right? And more importantly, you will still have aggro while the atronach attacks the boss. To me, this seems fine.
    It is not the tank's job to do damage.

    Hey. if you can damage the boss in a way that does not impede your tanking, seems a gain to me.
    DPS can slot abilities that help tanks mitigate damage, but you won't find a single guide saying to do so.
    Erm, you stated that sorcerers have very limited tanking abilities, do I need to quote your statements again?
    Please do so.

    Who cares what guides say.
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    You can tank in dps gear for the majority of the content. The sorcerer has the most mitigation enhancing abilities of any class that enable you to tank in light armour. And yes, this was exactly what the ultimate was being used for.
    If you can tank with DPS gear and DPS abilities, how does the Atranoch even matter? Why are you not just DPSing when you have aggro? Your claim seems logically inconsistent; it feels like you're just grasping at straws at this point, trying to defend the nerf that aids you as a DPS Sorcorer, not caring for other people's play styles.

    I have seen it many times. The sorcerer tank stops before boss. Grabs resto staff charges ultimate. Drops atronach on boss, 25 seconds the group has an additional dps. In that 25 seconds you can almost charge the ultimate again. When atronach expires, sorcerer does weapon switch to sword and board, uses bound aegis/thundering presence (which also charges atronach). When atronach is ready, tank drops it then switches to resto/destro staff etc etc....
    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It sounds to me that you are one the players I am speaking of, and is why you are so vocal on such a trivial ultimate adjustment.
    No, I have never done this before because it is not a viable means of tanking veteran dungeons. The Storm Atranoch could hold aggro and survive for a few seconds in a pinch, but it could not be the group's main tank.

    I am vocal about this change because I have literally no useful ultimate to put on my bar now. I may as well put nothing on my bar. That is a problem.

    No useful ultimate? The atronach is still useful for you without the taunt while you are tanking. It will damage the boss right? And more importantly, you will still have aggro while the atronach attacks the boss. To me, this seems fine.
    It is not the tank's job to do damage.

    Hey. if you can damage the boss in a way that does not impede your tanking, seems a gain to me.
    DPS can slot abilities that help tanks mitigate damage, but you won't find a single guide saying to do so.
    Erm, you stated that sorcerers have very limited tanking abilities, do I need to quote your statements again?
    Please do so.

    Who cares what guides say.

    Actually this is not true, the speed run AA trials are often completed by dps/healers stacking barriers and other mitigation abilities/ultimates to ignore several boss mechanics.
  • Nightreaver
    Nightreaver
    ✭✭✭✭
    andrantos wrote: »
    It's lovely what you can do when you take a comment out of context :smile:
    I stand corrected and concede that I did in fact misread your post for which I apologize
    If the devs didn't consider it OP or potentially OP we would have been compensated in some way.
    Has there been any indication anywhere that the Devs considered it OP? I personally believe the change was made to please Trial speed runners, not because anyone thought is was OP. I imagine the compensation was in the form of increased DPS through a longer lasting ultimate by removing the taunt which would make it, well, more powered.
    Just as a side note, the taunt or insta-hate aspect of the ability was never part of its description
    Nor is it a part of the description for our Tanking pet. Or is our 55 DPS pet also intended to be DPS?
    As my memory serves, the ultimate originally did not have a taunt, it was later added then removed.
    So at least at some point it was an intentional move to include Taunt.
    In case you missed it, the ability is still capable of getting agro. You just have to use it differently.
    Not really much help, anyone can gain aggro without doing a single point of damage. That hardly makes it replacement as a Tank. And yes, I imagine it is possible for the pet to even keep aggro… against one target….as long as I'm doing less than 250 DPS. There is just no way it can be used as effectively.
    The two morphs are clearly both dps orientated. 1 has increased aoe potential, the other has increased single target dps potential.
    What is your point? It was given two DPS options when both options already included Taunt. Now that taunt has been removed I would much rather prefer the option of Increased DPS vs. Taunt over a small chance of doing increased AOE DPS vs. increased ST DPS.
    None, as it should be. Having multiple dps ultimates enhances our role as dps.
    Since we can only have two ultimates active then do I really need over half a dozen DPS options? I would gladly exchange ONE of those that would enhance my ulitility and increase my survivability.
    The other tank classes are no where near as capable to sorcs in RANGED dps, the balance is there.
    First, if you're going to compare Tanks to Tanks then compare DPS to DPS. You can't just compare roles for one example and then use one aspect of a role to compare the roles of another.
    Second, if you're going to compare other class Ranged DPS to Sorcerer then include Sorcerer melee DPS abilities to other Class melee DPS abilities.
    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    Says the kettle. Yes, there is a hole. The taunt of the Atronarch was a VERY effective tanking ultimate when soloing.
    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    And how exactly is this different from any other Tank using a DPS ultimate to increase DPS while Tanking? To different methods to achieve the same goal of increasing DPS while Tanking
    If they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    I have already gone through the list of Sorcorer abilities. There are very few useful - far fewer than other classes - for boss tanking (trash doesn't matter, everyone can go DPS).

    But this isn't necessarily about all abilities, this is just about ultimates. There are zero non-PvP ultimates for boss tanking available to Sorcorer tanks.


    ^^
    I fail to see how this shows me saying that Sorcorers have zero tanking perks.
  • Nightreaver
    Nightreaver
    ✭✭✭✭
    None, as it should be. Having multiple dps ultimates enhances our role as dps.

    Ok, seeing as you can only choose one morph then pick one, whichever version is the better choice for DPS. We all know if one is considered better at end game then that will be version everyone wants. The other can have Taunt.

    YOU LOSE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

    If someone else chooses the Taunt version then what do you care, you still have the DPS version you wanted.
    If they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Nightreaver wrote: »
    None, as it should be. Having multiple dps ultimates enhances our role as dps.

    Ok, seeing as you can only choose one morph then pick one, whichever version is the better choice for DPS. We all know if one is considered better at end game then that will be version everyone wants. The other can have Taunt.

    YOU LOSE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

    If someone else chooses the Taunt version then what do you care, you still have the DPS version you wanted.

    The only times I have seen a sorcerer actually use this ultimate as a tanking form is how I described above. As a way to basically cheese bosses that they should need a group for to farm/grind experience. In my own experience, I have far greater survivability using critical surge together with impulse, and with this combination (I am not kidding) I can solo several group dungeons in Craglorn. What maverick did not realise is that I used a circular argument, where he actually countered his own argument to argue my statements, which is what I was trying to do; to get him to state that the ultimate is absolutely useless for tanking anyway. Which is more or less what he stated. Basically, everyone has described the ultimate as being effective really only when soloing. Well the main idea of this game is that it is an MMO. I am already concerned by the fact that I can solo group dungeons in craglorn in light armour. Anything that increases the motivation for players to group up is a good thing. And I think more nerfs should come the sorcerers way ( and yes I am a sorcerer saying nerf us please).
    Edited by Persephonius on August 9, 2014 6:59AM
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    What maverick did not realise is that I used a circular argument, where he actually countered his own argument to argue my statements, which is what I was trying to do; to get him to state that the ultimate is absolutely useless for tanking anyway. Which is more or less what he stated.
    Lol.

    You "tricked" me into saying no such thing.
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    What maverick did not realise is that I used a circular argument, where he actually countered his own argument to argue my statements, which is what I was trying to do; to get him to state that the ultimate is absolutely useless for tanking anyway. Which is more or less what he stated.
    Lol.

    You "tricked" me into saying no such thing.

    Really?
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    And lets not forget:
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.


    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?
    Edited by Persephonius on August 9, 2014 10:40AM
  • Nightreaver
    Nightreaver
    ✭✭✭✭
    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?

    In groups, perhaps not. But as a Ranged DPS who prefers to be "ranged" and have some distance between myself and my objective the Atronach with taunt had proven to be a valuable asset when soloing.

    So I would ask you the same question. If people got the morph they wanted that increased DPS and was without taunt then what is all the fuss about denying the alternative morph option a taunt? You can't have both morphs so why do you care what the other one is?

    I have yet to hear an argument against it other than to say it didn't fit someone's play style so therefore no one should have it.
    If they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Nightreaver wrote: »
    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?

    In groups, perhaps not. But as a Ranged DPS who prefers to be "ranged" and have some distance between myself and my objective the Atronach with taunt had proven to be a valuable asset when soloing.

    So I would ask you the same question. If people got the morph they wanted that increased DPS and was without taunt then what is all the fuss about denying the alternative morph option a taunt? You can't have both morphs so why do you care what the other one is?

    I have yet to hear an argument against it other than to say it didn't fit someone's play style so therefore no one should have it.

    Because the taunt is allowing sorcerers to clear content they should not be able to solo too easily. It is turning an MMO in a single player experience. Without the atronach, the sorcerer already has way too much survivability. Go ask a nightblade how he feels about all this.
  • Armann
    Armann
    ✭✭✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Nightreaver wrote: »
    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?

    In groups, perhaps not. But as a Ranged DPS who prefers to be "ranged" and have some distance between myself and my objective the Atronach with taunt had proven to be a valuable asset when soloing.

    So I would ask you the same question. If people got the morph they wanted that increased DPS and was without taunt then what is all the fuss about denying the alternative morph option a taunt? You can't have both morphs so why do you care what the other one is?

    I have yet to hear an argument against it other than to say it didn't fit someone's play style so therefore no one should have it.

    Because the taunt is allowing sorcerers to clear content they should not be able to solo too easily. It is turning an MMO in a single player experience. Without the atronach, the sorcerer already has way too much survivability. Go ask a nightblade how he feels about all this.

    NB here, and I'm feeling great, I can take on stuff solo a sorc would most likely die from, but please, ask for more nerfs for yourselves, I find it most entertaining to read. Meanwhile, NB forumwarriors make sure we are regarded as gimps and that the general perception among the ignorant is that we need buffs cause everybody knows NB are broken. It's amazing, I'm loving it.
    EU megaserver | XboxNord Nightblade | Ebonheart PactImperial Dragonknight | Ebonheart PactDunmer Sorcerer | Ebonheart PactDunmer Warden | Ebonheart PactOrc Necromancer | Daggerfall CovenantAltmer Templar | Aldmeri Dominion
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    What maverick did not realise is that I used a circular argument, where he actually countered his own argument to argue my statements, which is what I was trying to do; to get him to state that the ultimate is absolutely useless for tanking anyway. Which is more or less what he stated.
    Lol.

    You "tricked" me into saying no such thing.

    Really?
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    And lets not forget:
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.


    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?
    Again, you are not comprehending my words correctly. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest tanking ultimate. It was not powerful enough to solo tank dungeons. But that does not mean it was okay to just take it away, leaving Sorcorers with nothing.

    The weakest tanking ultimate is now probably Dragonknight Standard. It alone cannot solo tank dungeons. Should Dragonlnights not complain if this is just arbitrarily taken away?
    Edited by Maverick827 on August 9, 2014 8:17PM
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Armann wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Nightreaver wrote: »
    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?

    In groups, perhaps not. But as a Ranged DPS who prefers to be "ranged" and have some distance between myself and my objective the Atronach with taunt had proven to be a valuable asset when soloing.

    So I would ask you the same question. If people got the morph they wanted that increased DPS and was without taunt then what is all the fuss about denying the alternative morph option a taunt? You can't have both morphs so why do you care what the other one is?

    I have yet to hear an argument against it other than to say it didn't fit someone's play style so therefore no one should have it.

    Because the taunt is allowing sorcerers to clear content they should not be able to solo too easily. It is turning an MMO in a single player experience. Without the atronach, the sorcerer already has way too much survivability. Go ask a nightblade how he feels about all this.

    NB here, and I'm feeling great, I can take on stuff solo a sorc would most likely die from, but please, ask for more nerfs for yourselves, I find it most entertaining to read. Meanwhile, NB forumwarriors make sure we are regarded as gimps and that the general perception among the ignorant is that we need buffs cause everybody knows NB are broken. It's amazing, I'm loving it.

    Are you on the North American server, I wouldn't mind seeing what veteran dungeon bosses we can and cannot solo (don't take this as a childish challenge, I am actually curious as to just what the classes can do).

    I already know from the before the veteran zone nerfs that sorcerers had a much easier time soloing all the zones than any other class (dragonknights included, and NB's had the most trouble). But I am now not talking about zones, I am referring to soloing veteran dungeon bosses, which shouldn't be doable, but it is.

    Heck, it is possible for a sorcerer to solo the first AA trial boss, though I have not attempted to solo this one yet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS8PdiocgJQ

    However, I also know that a nightblade has solo'd the first AA boss as well.

    But my point is the argument in this thread about poor tanking survivability of sorcerers is crazy. And if you are saying that Nightblades also have comparable survivability, then I would argue that adjustments need to made across the board, to bring classes back in line.
    Edited by Persephonius on August 10, 2014 6:10AM
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    What maverick did not realise is that I used a circular argument, where he actually countered his own argument to argue my statements, which is what I was trying to do; to get him to state that the ultimate is absolutely useless for tanking anyway. Which is more or less what he stated.
    Lol.

    You "tricked" me into saying no such thing.

    Really?
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    And lets not forget:
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.


    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?
    Again, you are not comprehending my words correctly. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest tanking ultimate. It was not powerful enough to solo tank dungeons. But that does not mean it was okay to just take it away, leaving Sorcorers with nothing.

    The weakest tanking ultimate is now probably Dragonknight Standard. It alone cannot solo tank dungeons. Should Dragonlnights not complain if this is just arbitrarily taken away?

    I have been able to solo several of the lower tier veteran dungeon bosses. Bosses in Banished Cells (almost completed this dungeon solo, I am still trying, some issues on the last boss :blush: ), Spindel and Darkshade caverns (with and without cheesing the mechanics, but I am really struggling on the last boss in here, need at least 2 people to finish the dungeon). I have also solo'd some bosses in Wayrest Sewers. I also know there are more powerful sorcerers out there than I that have solo'd some of the dungeons completely that I have listed. However this is not just sorcerers, other classes are doing it as well. I find this a bit odd that we have ample survivability, and the most trivial adjustment made in this game so far, the removal of a taunt, has created so much fuss.

    This is easier after patch 1.3.3 by the way. I believe that I am significantly more powerful since the patch, and I will re-attempt some bosses solo I have failed on so far again, and I will see how I go.
    Edited by Persephonius on August 10, 2014 6:43AM
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
    ✭✭✭
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    What maverick did not realise is that I used a circular argument, where he actually countered his own argument to argue my statements, which is what I was trying to do; to get him to state that the ultimate is absolutely useless for tanking anyway. Which is more or less what he stated.
    Lol.

    You "tricked" me into saying no such thing.

    Really?
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    And lets not forget:
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.


    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?
    It was not powerful enough to solo tank dungeons. But that does not mean it was okay to just take it away, leaving Sorcorers with nothing.

    You know what, this is would be great if it was true. However it is possible to solo veteran dungeon bosses as a sorcerer with and without the atronach. But, since when were we ever MEANT to be able to solo tank the veteran dungeon bosses?
  • Armann
    Armann
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    Persephonius wrote: »
    But my point is the argument in this thread about poor tanking survivability of sorcerers is crazy. And if you are saying that Nightblades also have comparable survivability, then I would argue that adjustments need to made across the board, to bring classes back in line.

    Good luck with that, it's going to be hard to change peoples perceptions about NB when most are insisting on using a Bow/DW setup and them claiming the class sucks even if Bow/DW got nothing to do with NB as it's available to all classes. Even so, what's stopping them from using Sap Essence, Siphoning Attacks and Veil of blades with any weapon setup, may not work as good when not using LA and resto, but still good.
    EU megaserver | XboxNord Nightblade | Ebonheart PactImperial Dragonknight | Ebonheart PactDunmer Sorcerer | Ebonheart PactDunmer Warden | Ebonheart PactOrc Necromancer | Daggerfall CovenantAltmer Templar | Aldmeri Dominion
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
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    Armann wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    But my point is the argument in this thread about poor tanking survivability of sorcerers is crazy. And if you are saying that Nightblades also have comparable survivability, then I would argue that adjustments need to made across the board, to bring classes back in line.

    Good luck with that, it's going to be hard to change peoples perceptions about NB when most are insisting on using a Bow/DW setup and them claiming the class sucks even if Bow/DW got nothing to do with NB as it's available to all classes. Even so, what's stopping them from using Sap Essence, Siphoning Attacks and Veil of blades with any weapon setup, may not work as good when not using LA and resto, but still good.

    Ok, I agree with this. But please, someone must be able to see that the loss of the taunt on the atronach has had basically no effect to tanking sorcerers.... someone....anyone?

    It has however improved our role as dps.
    Edited by Persephonius on August 10, 2014 7:34AM
  • Persephonius
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    Well, a more technical reason why the taunt may have been removed:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2af1s0/hint_after_being_taunted_three_times_a_monster/
  • Armann
    Armann
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    Persephonius wrote: »
    Well, a more technical reason why the taunt may have been removed:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2af1s0/hint_after_being_taunted_three_times_a_monster/

    It is the reason they took the taunt away, they were not out to nerf the solo ability of Sorcerers. They just took the easy way out by removing it entirely instead of listening to our suggestions like allow player control over it (taunt by Y+LMB) or have one morph auto taunt while the other didn't.
    EU megaserver | XboxNord Nightblade | Ebonheart PactImperial Dragonknight | Ebonheart PactDunmer Sorcerer | Ebonheart PactDunmer Warden | Ebonheart PactOrc Necromancer | Daggerfall CovenantAltmer Templar | Aldmeri Dominion
  • Persephonius
    Persephonius
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    Armann wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Well, a more technical reason why the taunt may have been removed:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2af1s0/hint_after_being_taunted_three_times_a_monster/

    It is the reason they took the taunt away, they were not out to nerf the solo ability of Sorcerers. They just took the easy way out by removing it entirely instead of listening to our suggestions like allow player control over it (taunt by Y+LMB) or have one morph auto taunt while the other didn't.

    Well in my opinion the taunt did not affect sorcerer solo survivability. In the areas where sorcerers should be able to solo, the stun from the atronach landing has a more significant impact than taunting one mob. And if control is needed, negate is a far greater option. Soloing veteran bosses is not intended, and therefore, there should be absolutely no regard to the classes ability to do this.
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
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    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    What maverick did not realise is that I used a circular argument, where he actually countered his own argument to argue my statements, which is what I was trying to do; to get him to state that the ultimate is absolutely useless for tanking anyway. Which is more or less what he stated.
    Lol.

    You "tricked" me into saying no such thing.

    Really?
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    Persephonius wrote: »
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    Can we please get a confirmation that the developers know of this imbalance, and the hole left after this nerf to the Storm Atranoch? I need to know if I'm wasting my time by not leveling a Dragonknight, Templar, or Nightblade instead.

    There is no hole, there is no imbalance. The taunt of the atronach was not a good or effective tanking ultimate anyway. Are you just trolling now?
    There is a clear imbalance. All classes except Sorcerers have ultimates that are useful for DPS, tanking, and healing. The Storm Atranoch taunt was exceptionally helpful for tanking.

    Please post constructively and refrain from name-calling or leave the thread.

    No, the taunt of the atronach enabled tanking sorcerers for 25 seconds to effectively switch to a dps role, which is absurdly OP.
    This is not how it was used. You can't really DPS in tank gear. The Storm Atranoch was the weakest ultimate for tanking as far as the other classes are concerned, but at least it was something.

    And lets not forget:
    Maverick827 wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ ,

    The Atranoch does not last the full duration against most veteran bosses, and a large majority of bosses are reliant on positioning and movement, so I find your claims to be dubious at best.

    It stands to reason if this was viable that it would be the preferred method of running dungeons, and it would be known all over these and other forums. It is not.


    So as I said, in your own words you have stated that the atronach is not that effective of a tanking ultimate anyway. So what is all the fuss about?
    It was not powerful enough to solo tank dungeons. But that does not mean it was okay to just take it away, leaving Sorcorers with nothing.

    You know what, this is would be great if it was true. However it is possible to solo veteran dungeon bosses as a sorcerer with and without the atronach. But, since when were we ever MEANT to be able to solo tank the veteran dungeon bosses?
    Prove it.

    Edit: Rank 2 bosses don't count. They have like 30k HP and no mechanics, anyone can solo them.
    Edited by Maverick827 on August 10, 2014 3:31PM
  • Maverick827
    Maverick827
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    And if you actually watch that video you'd realize he does not need the Atranoch to taunt. If there was a higher DPS ultimate he would have used that instead. He's day "infinite" before he even drops it. The boss is slow in a big room with easy to dodge attacks; that's why he's able to solo it. Any boss that doesn't "pause" all the time and isn't so slow would destroy him.
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