Comprehensive list of PVP issues (not bugs) as of 1.2.6

Halrloprillalar

This is not a thread about bugs.

With that out of the way, there are major pvp issues that cause a detrimental experience in Cyrodiil and should get the devs' attention.

1. Aoe caps causing zergballs. A whole thread about it here. Basically, the current meta is 'follow the leader, press 1-2 buttons, win game' is stale and unfun for many people.

2. Home vs. guesting, and pvp buffs. Firstly, pvp buffs should only apply in pvp, having them for pve is silly - and I say this despite knowingly using first round AB/DB for my leveling buffs. It encourages guester zergs from unicolor campaigns to destroy real, contested campaigns due to buffs and the former emperor nonsense. There should only be buffs from the current campaign, or no guesting.

3. Emperor trading/former emperor buffs. The former buffs are small but significant enough that a whole raid of FEs will be more effective in both pvp and pve. Former emp should be only available in the campaign it was obtained, IMO. Other solutions possible, thread can be found here and here and others

4. Forward camps. Supply lines and map coverage currently mean nothing when you can suicide port to any place on the map with a camp. Also, having random people use up your camps (which are pricey) and not replace them is frustrating, especially if those people have no concept of what it is you are trying to accomplish. It also allows cross faction trolls/spies to interfere by abusing the overlap radius. More can be found in the main thread here

5. The rewards/AP/gear system. This is getting some changes to it, which is nice, but the 'send you random bag of nonsense' for every chunk of AP method is really inconvenient for many people, as can be seen here

These are the most important (in order of priority) and we as a community would love it if there was an actual response to these

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ @ZOS_SandraF‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Agrippa_Invisus

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

This is not a thread about bugs.

With that out of the way, there are major pvp issues that cause a detrimental experience in Cyrodiil and should get the devs' attention.

1. Aoe caps causing zergballs. A whole thread about it here. Basically, the current meta is 'follow the leader, press 1-2 buttons, win game' is stale and unfun for many people.

Completely agree. Zergballing is going to get more and more out of hand, causing counter intuitive game play reminiscent of Guild Wars 2 and Shadowbane (squeeze tighter to avoid AE! -- really? This is bad game design).

Individual skill should matter more and plowing headfirst into a defended chokepoint without heed should hurt.

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

2. Home vs. guesting, and pvp buffs. Firstly, pvp buffs should only apply in pvp, having them for pve is silly - and I say this despite knowingly using first round AB/DB for my leveling buffs. It encourages guester zergs from unicolor campaigns to destroy real, contested campaigns due to buffs and the former emperor nonsense. There should only be buffs from the current campaign, or no guesting.

Agreed. If you're not on the leaderboards, the smart thing is to try to home somewhere unicolor (BT for Blue, for example). You should be affected by the buffs of the campaign you're currently in, regardless of your guest/home status.

Guest campaign changes should come with an AP cost as well.

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

3. Emperor trading/former emperor buffs. The former buffs are small but significant enough that a whole raid of FEs will be more effective in both pvp and pve. Former emp should be only available in the campaign it was obtained, IMO. Other solutions possible, thread can be found here and here and others

IMO, part of the profligation of this is the dead campaigns (RE: Bloodthorn) along with ZOS's complete inability to enforce their own TOS. Numerous threads when Celarus first came to be exorciated the actions of the Emperor farmers there. How many bans, temp or perm, did we see?

Nada. No matter how much they sabotaged their own faciton, how much they harassed people in tell, say, and zone chat. No one was censured by the company.

So we end up with whole guilds worth of former emperors. I don't even wear my own tag anymore as it's no longer obvious I got it on one of the hardest campaigns for EP to prosper on, and it's easy to assume I'm just one of those 'dirty farmers'. Screw that, I'll just be a Tribune.

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

4. Forward camps. Supply lines and map coverage currently mean nothing when you can suicide port to any place on the map with a camp. Also, having random people use up your camps (which are pricey) and not replace them is frustrating, especially if those people have no concept of what it is you are trying to accomplish. It also allows cross faction trolls/spies to interfere by abusing the overlap radius. More can be found in the main thread here

Also agreed. Defending BRK we were camp trolled repeatedly last night. We held, though.

There have been too many fights where we win the fight, only for one person to get a camp down and all enemies respawn at full resources (HP/Stam/Mag) and we are low on everything from fighting. This happens even if we have just destroyed a tent.

Destroying a tent should have greater repercussions. Immediately rezzing at a tent should not leave you 100% ready to fight. An inclusion of a rez timer and/or rez sickness would greatly reduce this effect.

Add in only being able to rez within the radius and that removes the across the map teleportation.

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

5. The rewards/AP/gear system. This is getting some changes to it, which is nice, but the 'send you random bag of nonsense' for every chunk of AP method is really inconvenient for many people, as can be seen here

I would rather just get a gold reward equal to the average cost of the item we get from the bags. That would save tons of time. Deposit it direct into my money purse, please. Plus it would save Zenimax tons of database storage by not having hundreds and hundreds of junk items clogging in game mailboxes.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ @ZOS_SandraF‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Alishka_Gunter

^

Both are 100% correct! See, EP and DC can agree on somethings!

Halrloprillalar

graham.gunterb16_ESO wrote: »

^

Both are 100% correct! See, EP and DC can agree on somethings!

I am AD.

Agrippa_Invisus

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

graham.gunterb16_ESO wrote: »

^

Both are 100% correct! See, EP and DC can agree on somethings!

I am AD.

All three combined and we are the Ebonmerifall Docovepact.

shanersimms_ESO

These are great comments Halrlo. Although I do disagree overall with the Forward Camps being issues. Not being able to port to them would cause more harm to the funs then it would fix I think. Although it would be an amazing addition to add in guild and/or party FC's only accessible by members of your guild/party as others have suggested.

Halrloprillalar

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

graham.gunterb16_ESO wrote: »

^

Both are 100% correct! See, EP and DC can agree on somethings!

I am AD.

All three combined and we are the Ebonmerifall Docovepact.

Aldagheart Covepactinion

Agrippa_Invisus

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

graham.gunterb16_ESO wrote: »

^

Both are 100% correct! See, EP and DC can agree on somethings!

I am AD.

All three combined and we are the Ebonmerifall Docovepact.

Aldagheart Covepactinion

Now -- find something that rhymes with.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

Forward camp + /stuck is easy to fix. Lineage had unstuck command if I remember correctly which took 10! Minutes to port you back to town.


So make it port you to nearest wayshrine. In cyrodill it would mean entrance...

Halrloprillalar

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

graham.gunterb16_ESO wrote: »

^

Both are 100% correct! See, EP and DC can agree on somethings!

I am AD.

All three combined and we are the Ebonmerifall Docovepact.

Aldagheart Covepactinion

Now -- find something that rhymes with.

And everyone's my minion

Halrloprillalar

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

graham.gunterb16_ESO wrote: »

^

Both are 100% correct! See, EP and DC can agree on somethings!

I am AD.

All three combined and we are the Ebonmerifall Docovepact.

Aldagheart Covepactinion

Now -- find something that rhymes with.

And everyone's my minion

Or is that inconvenient?

Halrloprillalar

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Forward camp + /stuck is easy to fix. Lineage had unstuck command if I remember correctly which took 10! Minutes to port you back to town.


So make it port you to nearest wayshrine. In cyrodill it would mean entrance...

stuck doesn't kill you and only ports you to the starter WS. That's not the issue

shanersimms_ESO

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Forward camp + /stuck is easy to fix. Lineage had unstuck command if I remember correctly which took 10! Minutes to port you back to town.


So make it port you to nearest wayshrine. In cyrodill it would mean entrance...

Last I checked you can't /stuck and rez at a forward camp, nor can you suicide from falls, slaughterfish, or random pve mobs. You can only rez at a forward camp if you die to enemy players, or enemy NPC's at a resource node/Keep.

Cody

I think its a bit.. odd.... that one player can go across the entire map, set down a forward camp, then multiple people charge an enemy keep, die, then spawn at it. that seems like too much of an easy way to get thru enemies.

Ifthir_ESO

Does a single player in this thread have any confidence ZoS even cares about any of these issues?

I don't.

They are busy porting this game to console to make corporate more $.

Its a *** disgrace and hopefully the profanity filters will at least flag my post so someone from ZoS has to at least look at this thread.

shanersimms_ESO

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Does a single player in this thread have any confidence ZoS even cares about any of these issues?

I don't.

They are busy porting this game to console to make corporate more $.

Its a *** disgrace and hopefully the profanity filters will at least flag my post so someone from ZoS has to at least look at this thread.

Good contribution to the discussion. This will help foster a new age of clarity and understanding. Thank you.

HazardousNovex

It really confuses me how much people complain about zerg balls, when I see the enemy stacked up that much it literally makes me salivate, I don't need to run around picking off targets, just one ultimate dump and they're all dead.

Ifthir_ESO

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Good contribution to the discussion. This will help foster a new age of clarity and understanding. Thank you.

Yeah I guess I was cranky but in fairness there are hundreds of threads with each of these topics, some since day 1 of launch of and none have been addressed.

Brandoid

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

This is not a thread about bugs.

With that out of the way, there are major pvp issues that cause a detrimental experience in Cyrodiil and should get the devs' attention.

1. Aoe caps causing zergballs. A whole thread about it here. Basically, the current meta is 'follow the leader, press 1-2 buttons, win game' is stale and unfun for many people.

These aoe caps also prevent instant ultimate building from zerg diving, but zerg balling is an issue that can probably be fixed by nerfing impulse. There is also no collision between players so that could be an issue.

2. Home vs. guesting, and pvp buffs. Firstly, pvp buffs should only apply in pvp, having them for pve is silly - and I say this despite knowingly using first round AB/DB for my leveling buffs. It encourages guester zergs from unicolor campaigns to destroy real, contested campaigns due to buffs and the former emperor nonsense. There should only be buffs from the current campaign, or no guesting.

I disagree with your opinion on keep, scroll, and emperor buffs affecting you outside of Cyrodiil. as that would further separate the game in terms of pve and pvp. Home and guest timers are getting longer next update, but I hope they fix the timer not counting down if you're logged off.

4. Emperor trading/former emperor buffs. The former buffs are small but significant enough that a whole raid of FEs will be more effective in both pvp and pve. Former emp should be only available in the campaign it was obtained, IMO. Other solutions possible, thread can be found here and here and others

With 1.3.x the campaigns will be very much condensed which should stop trading.

4. Forward camps. Supply lines and map coverage currently mean nothing when you can suicide port to any place on the map with a camp. Also, having random people use up your camps (which are pricey) and not replace them is frustrating, especially if those people have no concept of what it is you are trying to accomplish. It also allows cross faction trolls/spies to interfere by abusing the overlap radius. More can be found in the main thread here

I don't think the way forward camps work now is bad as it allows for interesting things to happen in cyrodiil, but having a constant front line would be interesting too. Maybe a change that makes you only able to use a forward camp if you die within it's radius could address those 'issues'.

5. The rewards/AP/gear system. This is getting some changes to it, which is nice, but the 'send you random bag of nonsense' for every chunk of AP method is really inconvenient for many people, as can be seen here

If all you do is PvP you will never get much gold, exp, or any soulgems compared to PvE. The way it is now does kind of allow for you to only PvE or to only PvP. I like rewards for the worthy and they are necessary. If you can't manage your bags because you're lazy why is that the game's fault?

These are the most important (in order of priority) and we as a community would love it if there was an actual response to these

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ @ZOS_SandraF‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

DontBeAfraid

HazardousNovex wrote: »

It really confuses me how much people complain about zerg balls, when I see the enemy stacked up that much it literally makes me salivate, I don't need to run around picking off targets, just one ultimate dump and they're all dead.

we all, inlcuding yourself, know that this is not true.

Galrukh

What actually worries me a lot that hasnt been mentioned here ( probably because it is not just a pvp concern) is the in-equality between weapon/stamina builds and magicka builds. Stamina is so far behind it feels like self loathing to go that route. I know the set changes in update 3 will help that somewhat but it feels like a drop in the ocean at this point.

Brandoid

Galrukh wrote: »

What actually worries me a lot that hasnt been mentioned here ( probably because it is not just a pvp concern) is the in-equality between weapon/stamina builds and magicka builds. Stamina is so far behind it feels like self loathing to go that route. I know the set changes in update 3 will help that somewhat but it feels like a drop in the ocean at this point.

I predict that with 1.3 stam + magicka builds will dominate.

Taonnor

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

This is not a thread about bugs.

With that out of the way, there are major pvp issues that cause a detrimental experience in Cyrodiil and should get the devs' attention.

1. Aoe caps causing zergballs. A whole thread about it here. Basically, the current meta is 'follow the leader, press 1-2 buttons, win game' is stale and unfun for many people.

2. Home vs. guesting, and pvp buffs. Firstly, pvp buffs should only apply in pvp, having them for pve is silly - and I say this despite knowingly using first round AB/DB for my leveling buffs. It encourages guester zergs from unicolor campaigns to destroy real, contested campaigns due to buffs and the former emperor nonsense. There should only be buffs from the current campaign, or no guesting.

3. Emperor trading/former emperor buffs. The former buffs are small but significant enough that a whole raid of FEs will be more effective in both pvp and pve. Former emp should be only available in the campaign it was obtained, IMO. Other solutions possible, thread can be found here and here and others

4. Forward camps. Supply lines and map coverage currently mean nothing when you can suicide port to any place on the map with a camp. Also, having random people use up your camps (which are pricey) and not replace them is frustrating, especially if those people have no concept of what it is you are trying to accomplish. It also allows cross faction trolls/spies to interfere by abusing the overlap radius. More can be found in the main thread here

5. The rewards/AP/gear system. This is getting some changes to it, which is nice, but the 'send you random bag of nonsense' for every chunk of AP method is really inconvenient for many people, as can be seen here

These are the most important (in order of priority) and we as a community would love it if there was an actual response to these

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ @ZOS_SandraF‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

100% Agree

Avidus

AoE cap is a sensitive balance issue. But it does need adjusting.

Guesting either needs to be removed, or sets default stats similar to a non-vet. Making them weaker, instead of having super buff people coming from campaigns hey are winning.

Emperor farming.. Well.. I am personally not sure on the best way to go about fixing that. But it needs attention for sure.

FCs Need an option for guild ownership - To by choice, allow only a specific guild to spawn at said camp.
But to combat cutting other players of your alliance off, you would need to allow for them to overlap camps for non-guild players. Which could see new problems altogether.
FC radius should also apply to how far away a dead person can be from it to spawn at it.
As for spies. Attach the name of the player to the camp so we can swiftly report and ban them.

Rewards? I think attach it to a timer - 10 minutes for example, at the end of the 10 minutes calculate based of what you have done to determine what quality of random item you are sent. From junk to boss tier equipment.

But this thread is legit, good job on compiling it.

HazardousNovex

DontBeAfraid wrote: »

HazardousNovex wrote: »

It really confuses me how much people complain about zerg balls, when I see the enemy stacked up that much it literally makes me salivate, I don't need to run around picking off targets, just one ultimate dump and they're all dead.

we all, inlcuding yourself, know that this is not true.

I don't understand your meaning, would you care to elaborate?

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

HazardousNovex wrote: »

DontBeAfraid wrote: »

HazardousNovex wrote: »

It really confuses me how much people complain about zerg balls, when I see the enemy stacked up that much it literally makes me salivate, I don't need to run around picking off targets, just one ultimate dump and they're all dead.

we all, inlcuding yourself, know that this is not true.

I don't understand your meaning, would you care to elaborate?

WIth the target cap, only 6 of them would be hit by your ultimate.
And on their end, their smart heals would straigth away replenish their healt hwithout thinking/targeting.

This is on of the core complaints.
A zerg ball should make you salivate the way you do, but it needs no target caps for it to be possible.

runagate

Home vs. Guesting +1,000,000

Then again, I'd be pretty happy if I could mount my horse every once in a while. If I wasn't a NB with Maneuvers + Refreshing Path, I'd have rage quit by now. I've run from one end of Cyrodiil several times this week alone. I've no idea whatsoever what the problem is, as I don't use HoTs and took up healing solely because I could never get out of combat anyways so I may as well have the same curse as my healer friends and benefit from it.

bitaken

Agreed Leo. I have gotten off a horse in the middle of a green field with no mobs or enemy players in sight - hit maneuvers - BAM I am in combat. so frustrating at this point I run a lot of places because I just know I am not gonna mount anytime soon.

Halrloprillalar

bitaken wrote: »

Agreed Leo. I have gotten off a horse in the middle of a green field with no mobs or enemy players in sight - hit maneuvers - BAM I am in combat. so frustrating at this point I run a lot of places because I just know I am not gonna mount anytime soon.

pretty sure this is one of the game's entrenched 'features' ZOS can't quite figure out.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thank you for this list, and constructive breakdown of PVP issues, @Halrloprillalar.

We currently have several teams looking at the issues called out in this thread (and others) including the PVP team, and the Gameplay team. We are aware of the feedback and concerns regarding AoE caps, specifically; the Gameplay team is actively looking at AoE caps and the issues related to them very closely and carefully before making any further changes.

Halrloprillalar

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for this list, and constructive breakdown of PVP issues, @Halrloprillalar.

We currently have several teams looking at the issues called out in this thread (and others) including the PVP team, and the Gameplay team. We are aware of the feedback and concerns regarding AoE caps, specifically; the Gameplay team is actively looking at AoE caps and the issues related to them very closely and carefully before making any further changes.

Well, not quite what we want to hear, but great at last to have a response from ZOS!
Thank you!