NB ballance

TheBull

BUFF THE *** SIPHON TREE

NB - Prolonged Suffering - 1.5 cast time -600 dmg over 12 secs...
Sorc - Crystal Shards - 1.5 sec cast 750-1k dmg instant and possible instant proc.

Within the time Prolonged suffering does 600 dmg.. You can cast 8 *** crystal shards and do 8k dmg.

wtf... ZOS wtf...

makkon

NB is broken archetype (or "balanced" - dunno)
curent main problems of NB as class:
1) broken shadow cloak -> visible under inner light, visible after get or do damage. big cost. so you need to spam it to get escape (chance is down to zero if close to enemy)
2) no sustain. yes, there is no sustain. most easy to be ganked from all classes - NB's! They can't escape in most sutiations, they can't outheal or tank like a boss (after VoB off)
3) sooo hybrid mechanic. half of skills scaling from weapon crit, half from spell damage. all scales from magicka.
4) there is no good synergy. so it makes this class something like "useless" in mass pvp. support only.
5) "strongest" ultimate ingame (VoB)? ye, but too low radius to be usefull in pvp (only wall/building fights)
6) syphons eat 2 slots, bunch of damage and require to be out of block to make profit
7) no good buffs.
8) casting time on alot of "instant" spells (death stroke, teleporting strike, etc)
9) top skills:
haste is useless, mark target is harmful, summon shade is doubtful (zero damage, strange AI, very situational, ) aspect of terror works only on 2 target and cost bunch of mana, blur - only 15% MISS chance - not even dodge to stack with other.
10) some spells are useless from start (Agony)

so, what can do NB as class? ganks only. but ganks can do pretty good anyone.

You can say anything - I am whining or crying, but this is not change statement of this class. Broken is broken. ZOS need to rework alot of stuff. NOT nerf other class, but rework NB to be competitive

Kego

Fixing NB would be quite easy. Make Shadow Cloak unbreakable. Let DMG come through, like AOE or already applied DoTs. Make us Heal for 9% Life during Cloak Phase, with 3% Heal per Second.
On that point, we can use Cloak as offensive Tool but not gaining much Heal or stay in cloak and Heal up. With only 9% Heal we would have to use cloak around 11 times to heal up completly, kinda impossible.

And even if someone use it for mass healing himself, he would stay infront of the enemy without any Magicka ressources left for other mandatory Skills.

TheBull wrote: »

BUFF THE *** SIPHON TREE

NB - Prolonged Suffering - 1.5 cast time -600 dmg over 12 secs...
Sorc - Crystal Shards - 1.5 sec cast 750-1k dmg instant and possible instant proc.

Within the time Prolonged suffering does 600 dmg.. You can cast 8 *** crystal shards and do 8k dmg.

wtf... ZOS wtf...

Prolonged Suffering is a CC Spell with 12 Second duration. Crystal Shards is a DMG Cast with knockdown. Don't know why you are comparing those completly different Skills?

How about Swallow Soul vs Cyrstal Shards?
Crystal Shards - 1.5 sec cast 750-1k dmg instant and possible instant proc
Swallow Soul - Instant cast 400-550 dmg instant and Heals you up.

Swallow Soul is an Instant Cast, there for you can get 2 Swallow Soul out for 800-1100 DMG in the same Time as Sorc gets one Crystal Shard. Sure, if he gets an Instant Procc, he will do more DMG, on the other Hand, you have a 100% Uptime of a HoT Effect during Combat. With Shadowy Disguise you can let this Spell crit anytime you want it to.

We could build it more up with casting Crippling Grasp every 8 Seconds giving us 150 initial DMG and another 120 DMG per Second DoT and filling our Ultimate even faster thanks to Transfer Passive.

Means ~5.400 DMG Crystal Shards in 8 Seconds,
and ~6.400 DMG Crippling Grasp + Swallow Soul.

makkon

as additional loled (by statistics) moments from pvp (I playing nightstave ofc, sorry fire in my heart):
1) stamina NB jump from stealth -> going to respawn
2) stamina NB just jump -> going on respawn even faster
3) I jump on NB -> insta kill with 3-4 hits (TS -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow+Light attack-> Impale)
4) I jump on DK -> -1/2 HP lol and after dragon scale, invasion, lash, lash, lash, dragon scale...rolled
5) I jump on Sorc -> almost got em, but after bolt escape through me and million damage + hardened ward and harness magika to absorb all damage.
6) I jump on templar -> almost got em, then blazing shiled+breath of life and battle is over. he can pretty outheal all damage, especially with blazing shiled+harness magicka up.
DK, Sorc, Templar - they all have sustain! Fast, easy to use, 1 slot req per skill.
ofc, sometimes I kill, but Im sure - it will be much more competitive if I play sorc or dk.

remember, I can easy kill pretty any stamina build NB. thats why all complain about stamina builds...ZoS tell us - we can play way we want, but forget to tell us what this game will (can in most ways)be extremely uncompetitive.
So there is only one way to be competitive - animation cancelling light attack+funnel. But this is very easy counter by pretty all other classes except NB

Kego wrote: »

How about Swallow Soul vs Cyrstal Shards?
Crystal Shards - 1.5 sec cast 750-1k dmg instant and possible instant proc
Swallow Soul - Instant cast 400-550 dmg instant and Heals you up.

properly compare:
instant Crystal shard can proc on every magicka spells (fix me, sorcs if I wrong)
so it will be crushing shock + insta shards+desintegration (he can proc also on shards if I correct) vs swallow soul

apso, swallow soul travel speed is slower than shards have -> target can easy dodge roll before it reach destination lol (same with crippling grasp)

so I think swallow soul should heal on damage (like 10% of damage on hit and 10 additional as DoT) to be competitive

crippling grasp on panel? ok, but how I can put so much spells on my panels if I have 2xinner light and 2xsiphoning attacks?=)

Sharee

makkon wrote: »

as additional loled (by statistics) moments from pvp (I playing nightstave ofc, sorry fire in my heart):
1) stamina NB jump from stealth -> going to respawn
2) stamina NB just jump -> going on respawn even faster
3) I jump on NB -> insta kill with 3-4 hits (TS -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow+Light attack-> Impale)
4) I jump on DK -> -1/2 HP lol and after dragon scale, invasion, lash, lash, lash, dragon scale...rolled
5) I jump on Sorc -> almost got em, but after bolt escape through me and million damage + hardened ward and harness magika to absorb all damage.
6) I jump on templar -> almost got em, then blazing shiled+breath of life and battle is over. he can pretty outheal all damage, especially with blazing shiled+harness magicka up.
DK, Sorc, Templar - they all have sustain! Fast, easy to use, 1 slot req per skill.
ofc, sometimes I kill, but Im sure - it will be much more competitive if I play sorc or dk.

Yea that's the base of the problem.

NB can do very high burst from stealth, but if that burst does not kill the target before it can react, then DKs and templars heal themselves to full by waving a hand, and then kill you. Sorcerers just bolts away.

This is why impenetrable trait hurts the NB - no crits mean much less burst, less burst means target recovers, and once recovered, kill the NB who has no tools and no chance to win a straight up fight.

It's not that NB's cannot kill anyone in Cyrodiil, but their kills currently rely on their targets being weak(inexperienced, low level, badly equipped) rather than on the NB being skillfull.

Kego

Two changes to fix NB defence mechanic:

1. Shadow cloak

• The cloak should always be active the complete time if we use it. (Whith Passives max. 3 Seconds)
• If we got Dots or AOE DMG on us, we can still cloak the full time but Dots remains and hurt us, except Dark Cloak is used.
• Dark Cloak should be changed that AOE does no DMG to us as well, besides it's Dot Removal.
• Shadowy Disguise stays like it is. (additional 70% Crit Chance for next Attack out of Stealth)
• Give Shadow cloak and its morphs an additional HoT Effect for 3% HP per Tick. (9% Total)

2. Inner Light
This skill currently has absolutly no drawback. Seriosly if we NB use Mark Target we make our selfs to glass cannons.
But using Innter Light does not only buff for 20% Crit DMG, it completly counters the NB mechanic of been stealthy and of our only oh [snip] Button Shadow cloak.

The penalty of -5% max. Magicka should be removed and replaced with an Debuff that let the caster get 20% more DMG income form all sources.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

TheBull

Kego wrote: »

Fixing NB would be quite easy. Make Shadow Cloak unbreakable. Let DMG come through, like AOE or already applied DoTs. Make us Heal for 9% Life during Cloak Phase, with 3% Heal per Second.
On that point, we can use Cloak as offensive Tool but not gaining much Heal or stay in cloak and Heal up. With only 9% Heal we would have to use cloak around 11 times to heal up completly, kinda impossible.

And even if someone use it for mass healing himself, he would stay infront of the enemy without any Magicka ressources left for other mandatory Skills.

TheBull wrote: »

BUFF THE *** SIPHON TREE

NB - Prolonged Suffering - 1.5 cast time -600 dmg over 12 secs...
Sorc - Crystal Shards - 1.5 sec cast 750-1k dmg instant and possible instant proc.

Within the time Prolonged suffering does 600 dmg.. You can cast 8 *** crystal shards and do 8k dmg.

wtf... ZOS wtf...

Prolonged Suffering is a CC Spell with 12 Second duration. Crystal Shards is a DMG Cast with knockdown. Don't know why you are comparing those completly different Skills?

How about Swallow Soul vs Cyrstal Shards?
Crystal Shards - 1.5 sec cast 750-1k dmg instant and possible instant proc
Swallow Soul - Instant cast 400-550 dmg instant and Heals you up.

Swallow Soul is an Instant Cast, there for you can get 2 Swallow Soul out for 800-1100 DMG in the same Time as Sorc gets one Crystal Shard. Sure, if he gets an Instant Procc, he will do more DMG, on the other Hand, you have a 100% Uptime of a HoT Effect during Combat. With Shadowy Disguise you can let this Spell crit anytime you want it to.

We could build it more up with casting Crippling Grasp every 8 Seconds giving us 150 initial DMG and another 120 DMG per Second DoT and filling our Ultimate even faster thanks to Transfer Passive.

Means ~5.400 DMG Crystal Shards in 8 Seconds,
and ~6.400 DMG Crippling Grasp + Swallow Soul.

Too much lol to even comment on. Nice strawman though.

makkon

Kego wrote: »

The penalty of -5% max. Magicka should be removed and replaced with an Debuff that let the caster get 20% more DMG income form all sources.

inner light is ok. it should reveal only stealthed enemy in more radius, but not invisible. since it eating 2 slots and 5% of magicka and 20% of crit chance = 3 impenetrable pieces, its ok.

for invisible players there should be only potions for detection.

and there also should be fix on clouding swarm full invise bug (other opera)

Sharee wrote: »

NB can do very high burst from stealth

every class can do bunch of burst damage from stealth, beleave me. most of em also do not need to be in melee radius

Selodaoc

Kego wrote: »

Two changes to fix NB defence mechanic:

1. Shadow cloak

• The cloak should always be active the complete time if we use it. (Whith Passives max. 3 Seconds)
• If we got Dots or AOE DMG on us, we can still cloak the full time but Dots remains and hurt us, except Dark Cloak is used.
• Dark Cloak should be changed that AOE does no DMG to us as well, besides it's Dot Removal.
• Shadowy Disguise stays like it is. (additional 70% Crit Chance for next Attack out of Stealth)
• Give Shadow cloak and its morphs an additional HoT Effect for 3% HP per Tick. (9% Total)

Agreed.
Once in combat, Cloak is now useless since it instabreaks on everything in PvP. Just beeing close to an enemy is enough to break it.
Cloak, with its low duration and high cost, should always work, if your damaged or not.

olsborg

NB restoration staff wielders holding block and spamming swallow soul is strong enough if you ask me.

Lyall84

Selodaoc wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

Two changes to fix NB defence mechanic:

1. Shadow cloak

• The cloak should always be active the complete time if we use it. (Whith Passives max. 3 Seconds)
• If we got Dots or AOE DMG on us, we can still cloak the full time but Dots remains and hurt us, except Dark Cloak is used.
• Dark Cloak should be changed that AOE does no DMG to us as well, besides it's Dot Removal.
• Shadowy Disguise stays like it is. (additional 70% Crit Chance for next Attack out of Stealth)
• Give Shadow cloak and its morphs an additional HoT Effect for 3% HP per Tick. (9% Total)

Agreed.
Once in combat, Cloak is now useless since it instabreaks on everything in PvP. Just beeing close to an enemy is enough to break it.
Cloak, with its low duration and high cost, should always work, if your damaged or not.

I agree with most, but not the heal...maybe increase healing effects while cloaked? If it healed by itself it would run the risk of being OP. And we dont need this nerfed just after they fix it (if they ever do). 10% increased healing while under cloak would be enough. That way you could cloak, pop a potion, and get a decent amount of health back.

Kego

That would be something, where PTS are for. But well, I would be happy if the cloak would just work.

I don't think that 9% Healing is anything near of OP.
With 3.000 HP, that's 90 HP/s. 270 Heal over the time of Cloak.
With 21% cost reduction thats 270 Heal over 3 Seconds for ~332 Magicka.

to compare: Swallow Soul does around 410 DMG and heals for 130 HP with 221 Magicka costs.

Revy

Matuzes wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Watch Demon Eye`s`s youtube vids, or Daykiin`s. There are NBs who are able to make dw NB look like a wonderful and crazy powerful class to play. I meet Daykiin for example pretty often on AB EU on the field. He rocks, doing all the stuff I described, using DW.

youtube.com/watch?v=H5Uv7ND62Pw
youtube.com/watch?v=kyZowGSoaWs

Did you see how those guys are using cloak? Exactly as I said, appearing, disappearing, each just for a few seconds. Just because you are not able to play like that, doesn`t mean nobody is. Sorry, if your mechanics don`t allow you to pull that off, train more, get better (no offense). I never meant to insult anyone, if you read carefully, all I said was, that dw NB can be an awesome style to play, if you are good enough.

Best regards

Both videos are just ganking from stealth, mostly non-v12 players. Also videos are 1 and more then 2 months old. Now, majority of players use Inner Light and have few Impenetrable traits in armor, which hurts gank builds hard.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=E7GuyaQvTx8
ZOS need to ensure that DK still feels powerful. Really? Im just sad watching video like this.

To be fair the DK was using light armor and a staff build

Taiminator

NBs are doing okay except for the skills that are still bugged. Dark Cloak is way too unreliable, only seems to work 70% of the times you attempt to use it, seems like some DoTs still break it, even though they should be removed. Funnel Health/Swallow Soul sometimes bugs out and only ticks for 10-15 health even though it did ~500 dmg, resulting in a rage-enducing death since this is pretty much our only heal apart from Sap Essence which only works well with higher target numbers. Impale and Ambush don't always fire and the animation can get stuck for a second or so. Last time I checked, Haste still doesn't affect Bow attacks even though fixes have been in several patch notes. There are more but I cant think of them right now. Fixing these could go a long way.

Now let's look at skills that are nigh useless imo. Blur gives 15% miss chance which bosses are immune to. Hist Bark's set bonus is about 5 times better than this entire skill and costs no magicka. Please make Blur give a dodge chance so people can actually use it. Agony needs to be looked at as well. This should be made into a viable CC ability. Either change Malefic Wreath morph to where it can root multiple targets or make it so the other morphs don't get removed instantly upon taking dmg. Maybe cut duration in half but let targets take some dmg. Another option would be to disorient targets when the effect is broken. Talons for example is useful unlike Agony at the moment.

I like that balancing is done carefully. I don't want any class especially mine to be OP. And like I said NBs are doing okay at the moment but the skills that have been bugged for months really should be fixed at some point and looking into the least used ones would be nice as well.

Braddass

The main balance problems are sustained dps and survivability. Few NBs want to be OP, most of us would just like to be on par with the other classes.

Selodaoc

Like others have said, NB DW suffers from sustained dmg in PvP.
If you dont bring down your enemy in that timeframe after the initial concealed weapon, all classes except nightblade have so many tools that heals them up to pretty much full health in seconds.
After that other classes have so many skills with built in CC and much higher burst.

pitdemon_ESO

Sustained damage? In PvP?

wut?

Lyall84

Taiminator wrote: »

NBs are doing okay except for the skills that are still bugged. Dark Cloak is way too unreliable, only seems to work 70% of the times you attempt to use it, seems like some DoTs still break it, even though they should be removed. Funnel Health/Swallow Soul sometimes bugs out and only ticks for 10-15 health even though it did ~500 dmg, resulting in a rage-enducing death since this is pretty much our only heal apart from Sap Essence which only works well with higher target numbers. Impale and Ambush don't always fire and the animation can get stuck for a second or so. Last time I checked, Haste still doesn't affect Bow attacks even though fixes have been in several patch notes. There are more but I cant think of them right now. Fixing these could go a long way.

Now let's look at skills that are nigh useless imo. Blur gives 15% miss chance which bosses are immune to. Hist Bark's set bonus is about 5 times better than this entire skill and costs no magicka. Please make Blur give a dodge chance so people can actually use it. Agony needs to be looked at as well. This should be made into a viable CC ability. Either change Malefic Wreath morph to where it can root multiple targets or make it so the other morphs don't get removed instantly upon taking dmg. Maybe cut duration in half but let targets take some dmg. Another option would be to disorient targets when the effect is broken. Talons for example is useful unlike Agony at the moment.

I like that balancing is done carefully. I don't want any class especially mine to be OP. And like I said NBs are doing okay at the moment but the skills that have been bugged for months really should be fixed at some point and looking into the least used ones would be nice as well.

It would be nice if they made blur a toggle 10% max magicka. They would have to adjust morphs though.

Varicite

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

NBs who changed to robes and staffs just couldnt figure out how to play the class and counter other players.

Eh, not so sure about that. Most just wanted to be invited to Trials. It has nothing to do with not knowing how to play the class. My Stamina Build was hitting around 350-400 DPS (this was pre Medium Armor change). I swapped to 7/7 Light with a Resto Staff and now I'm hitting 950-980 DPS in trials with little effort. There is a large disparity in end game PvE.

Now in PvP, that's is a little different. With some of the set changes coming in a few weeks, I think you will start seeing more Stamina builds since they are viable in Cyrodiil. They still wont be on par with Magicka but at least that gap with not be as wide.

Stamina vs. magicka isn't a class issue, it's a game-wide thing.

This is the truth.

The thing I find most interesting is that, as stamina builds go, NBs are one of the best classes anyway.

What are we complaining about, exactly?

Selodaoc

I think its more melee vs ranged then magicka vs stamina.
Melee class skills are just as bad as weapon melee skills.

Thejollygreenone

Selodaoc wrote: »

I think its more melee vs ranged then magicka vs stamina.
Melee class skills are just as bad as weapon melee skills.

I disagree, I think it is primarily an issue of magicka vs stamina. Melee vs ranged may have it's own issue, certainly, but I think the bigger problem is magicka vs stamina.

The reason I disagree with you is that bow is equally nonviable, at least in a trial environment. And in really all situations, I wouldn't say bow is much better off than other stamina based weapons. The only advantage it would have is that it's ranged.

Varicite

Selodaoc wrote: »

I think its more melee vs ranged then magicka vs stamina.
Melee class skills are just as bad as weapon melee skills.

Both DKs and NBs do extremely well in melee range w/ class skills, so I'm not really sure how this could be the case.

makkon

Lyall84 wrote: »

It would be nice if they made blur a toggle 10% max magicka. They would have to adjust morphs though.

no way. another one useless tuggle.
20% dodge chance would be good or better secondary effects

drathanne

Hello all, I am posting from a perspective of a solo assassin type NB, I played through cyrodiil from lv10 till vr12 now, not all in cyrodiil but alot of it was, I have finished all faction quests, so I've done alot of pve, I am just a pvper from daoc in reality, I really have no problems killing someone if I can get them from stealth, except for DKs or Good Templars, and of course Sorcs bolting out and keeping me visible where i am at and they are miles away. Granted the sorc bolting and me stuck visible, is another rant, not pertinent to this conversation.

The biggest problems I see are the fact that cloak breaks way too much, that is our only "oh crap" button. I use it offensively as well as a getaway tool. In both circumstances it is unreliable and should be fixed. Whereas, Sorc can bolt away and nothing i can do about it or Dk and Temp can turtle up and be ok, not that there is anything wrong with that. The problem being is there is no counter for that stuff if you are NB. Yes I could use all defensive abilities and turtle up close to other classes but that is not my playstyle, and I am not calling for a nerf to other class abilities, although I would like a way to break block. I block as well when fighting a DK especially, because that is all they do it seems. A battle of attrition. The only reliable heal I have in those circumstances is a potion, siphoning strikes or strife(morph) are laughable when fighting in pvp. Strife is good as ranged from keep wall or such, but still hits for weak damage.

Besides what I have mentioned the only other problems I see with my play style are Stamina issues, mostly with always being out of stamina when I fight someone because I used it up stealthing to wherever I happen to be at the time.

Now remember this is all from a pvp perspective not pve. There are different problems for pve and I am not qualified to comment on them, except the solo encounters, aka quest bosses and such, I have not done any trails or vet dungeons, I am a pvper.

For full disclosure I am a DW medium armor Nightblade. My bars are aligned to kill fast and get the f... out. I have 0 defensive abilities on my bar except for cloak, but I consider that an offensive ability, that is handy on occasion for getting away from the zerg that just crested the hill.

tldr: From my perspective in pvp the only thing that needs fixed for NB is cloak breaking randomly. The other problems have to do with stamina issues that are not NB specific.

Sharee

I agree with the cloak being the main issue. Cloak is just as important in PvP for a nightblade as green dragon blood is for a DK, or bolt for a sorc.

I'd like to see the ....storm on the forums if GDB and Bolt suddenly started to only work half the time, but drained magicka just the same.

[EDIT] I also want a potion that will prevent GDB and Bolt from functioning for 10 seconds!

Kego

Ofcourse there a two point of views with PvE and PVP.

PvP: I think our DMG is already fine. Be it Magicka or Stamina, we can deal really well. On the other hand, we are as good as defenceless in PvP. There are only two really good Skills for us with Veil of Blades (Ultimate) and Cloak.

The Veil has the same disadvantege like Standards of DK with been placed on the ground.

Cloak our "anytime" def. Skill currently doesn't help most of the time cause it's bugged since Months and can be counterd by a Level 2 Mage Guild Skill, as well as Potions.

Hello ZOS, anyone realised that you took away anykind of defence from Nightblades with two easy to gain things?

PvE: Sustained DMG is the only missing part for Melee Nightblades. Maybe it would already be enough to change the Summon Shade.

Change there Morph to:

Shadow Image: Creates a Shadow for 20 Seconds that imitates your DMG. DMG done by the Shadow is 40% of the Player.

Dark Shades: Creates two Shadows for 20 Seconds, causes the targets DMG done to be reduced by 15%. The Shadows deals each 10% DMG of the Player.

On that way, Sustained DPS for MeleeDPS would be raised and Tanks could use the second morph for a little DMG increase and a nice Debuff on Bosses.

Lyall84

makkon wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

It would be nice if they made blur a toggle 10% max magicka. They would have to adjust morphs though.

no way. another one useless tuggle.
20% dodge chance would be good or better secondary effects

Would not be useless as a tanking ability.

Selodaoc

Varicite wrote: »

Selodaoc wrote: »

I think its more melee vs ranged then magicka vs stamina.
Melee class skills are just as bad as weapon melee skills.

Both DKs and NBs do extremely well in melee range w/ class skills, so I'm not really sure how this could be the case.

NBs do not. NBs have high Opening burst, High Execure, but nothing in between, so they cant sustain with class skills.
So they have to take weapon skills aswell.
Class skills are Magicka and Spell dmg.
Weapon skills are Stamina and Weapon dmg.
So you see the contradiction there and one of the reasons many NBs go staff.

drathanne wrote: »

For full disclosure I am a DW medium armor Nightblade. My bars are aligned to kill fast and get the f... out. I have 0 defensive abilities on my bar except for cloak, but I consider that an offensive ability, that is handy on occasion for getting away from the zerg that just crested the hill.

That is one of the problems. NB have to go full out glasscannon to kill in PvP.
A DK, for example, can get tankgear, trait tankutilities, and still dish out as much dmg as a NB.
If you dont kill that enemy during your initial stunn, enemy will either heal up to max, or teleport away, heal up and come back to kill you since you cant stealth once in combat and magelight always sees you.
A crystal shard has no travel time in melee.
Melee NB in PvP is kinda a one trick pony. Fail that one trick, and your dead.

Gilvoth

Kypho wrote: »

When comes the NB ballance? Would like to be on pair with other classes head on without lulrobe and lulstaff crap.... And fix cloak already.

i agree. i and many others have been waiting since beta to see balance come to us duel wield dagger and bow users.
we simply do not put out equal damage output as the other classes can. we also cannot stand up and fight toe to toe with other classes due to our weakness in survivability.

Selodaoc

Bow needs a ST "spam" skill other then venom arrow. Other then that, bow is quite deadly with the right setbonuses