DKs already bottom feeder in every role with no unique parts of their class anymore.

monkeymystic

I've lost faith in how ZOS balance things. They said "we don't want to nerf it into oblivion". Take off your blindfold, open your eyes and look what is happening then!

Everyone know that the robe + staff just hands down beat every other stamina build in terms of dps in any kind of dps situaton.
Nightblades are currently topping DPS by a large margin on live by using staff and robes, which is yet another proof that shows how imbalanced weapon types and armor types are, and difference is even larger on PTS.
But nightblades are also capable of doing 1k+ DPS with bow, crit, passives and flawless dawnbreaker active.
DKs are getting 500 DPS with any stamina build.

DKs are currently below both Sorc and NB in terms of DPS by a large margin (when all use the best wep/armor spec staff + robes).
But NBs keep getting buffed and DKs keep getting nerfed.
If ZOS just realised they need to balance WEAPONS instead of CLASSES, things would maybe not screw things over so much.

They are stripping DKs off from everything they got and now DKs have no unique class functions left worth mentioning, like the other classes have (survival abilities like Cloak and Bolt Escape, unique key points like summons, group healing, dispels, RANGE dps, mobility, Crit Surge and the list goes on.)

And they want to strip them off survivability too, the last thing they got.

What happens when you strip DKs from survivability too, and leave them with no other class function left? Other classes have survivability in terms of CLOAK, BOLT ESCAPE and self healing on TOP of their self healing as their survivability.
Do you even know what you are doing if you nerf the only survival ability DKs got?

DK's only have 1 self heal, THIS ONE EXPENSIVE HEAL ALREADY HAS A BUILT IN DIMISHING RETURNS, and it's the only thing that keeps the DKs from wiping against normal VR mobs.
You already nerfed battle roar hard as well. And ultimate gain is nerfed too.

DKs are already getting outclassed with a large margin by both Sorcerers and Nightblades as tanks, templars being side by side. BEFORE this upcoming change.
They are also getting outclassed by these NBs and Sorc classes in DPS, while Templars are very close to DK now.
And DKs are outclassed by ALL of them in terms of group healing.

DK went from being OP as DPS when used with the Robe + Destro/resto, to now become a bottom feeder, and stamina builds are suffering the most.

You take that away, and they sit left with no way of either surviving or getting away, since they don't have anything similar to Cloak or Bolt Escape.

DKs don't have range, they don't have magicka regen, their DPS is nerfed hard and as bottom 3rd along with Templars, their roots are nerfed so hard its stopped being used, and the nerfs just continues to break down every DK out there, with the stamina builds suffering so hard they struggle as much as NB's at release, except NBs have cloak to get away and DKs dont.

EnOeZ

Absolutely agree ! ZOS combat designers has missed the point in Nerfing, DK : after those kikoolol videos of players in light armor, destruction staff, magicka builds, crit oriented DKs, they analysed that it was :

• not the light armor bonuses
• not the destruction staff (nor the healing one to lesser extent btw)
• not the magicka builds and their insane regen (go heavy armor + stamina to compare...)
• not their discretionnary decision to make crit give x3 "finesse" compared to non crit (heavily gimping non-crit builds and heavy armor buddies)
• not even the synergies between all of these factors + ultimate generation on crit AOE + ultimate reduction gears
• but the pb was coming from DKs (who factors indeed "Battle Shout" who takes further advantage of these)

It's easy to see strengths and more difficult to assess weaknesses. And DKs former strengths were to my view absolutely on par with the other classes strenghts and kind of "uniqueness". In my humble opinion, the previous correctives of the Nerf Hammer have missed their nail(s).

Plz ZOS, do not make all classes the same : we are interested in a class because it is "unique" or kind of, not because it could be a an almost unperceptible flavour of a mage, a tank, a rogue or a healer.

& Same with armor.

We are interested in our characters because we can - or should be able to - build it - as we want - (as you told us we would) in order to be strong in the fields we want and not be forced to use light armour+destruction staff+magicka heavy build (with its insane regeneration and DPS compared to stamina's) to be on top in almost any aspect of the game.

• Adress armor types and their passives
• Adress stamina builds closely and make Nick Konkle play a stamina based, full melee build in VR in heavy armor (I have some places where to send him) - hello Nick btw
• Adress lag and abilities responsiveness (and EU serveur in EU - should come and play the game from Europe)

And enjoy a 10 year success with dedicated and enthousiast fanbase !

Cheers from D-Day, France.

Artis

Please, can I hear how nightblades outclass DKs as tanks having no talons or other good aoe? And that pathetic swallow soul that is not considerable for hp-stamina builds(tanks).

Can you please tell us, what those NB tanks use? Which skills do they have on their skill bars and what armor+weapon are they wearing? So far I just can't believe in what you are saying.
thanks in advance.

RazzPitazz

Artemis wrote: »

Please, can I hear how nightblades outclass DKs as tanks having no talons or other good aoe? And that pathetic swallow soul that is not considerable for hp-stamina builds(tanks).

Can you please tell us, what those NB tanks use? Which skills do they have on their skill bars and what armor+weapon are they wearing? So far I just can't believe in what you are saying.
thanks in advance.

Yea, I didnt understand that part either. However his general concern is valid. DKs are so well rounded that if they nerf them just a little too hard it can be detrimental. But that is the problem, DKs are unique in the sense that they can do everything..... too well. If they keep that idea but lower numbers than they will become a Jack of All Trades, Master of None.
IMO ZoS needs to figure out what they want DK to be good at. With the lack of escape, I believe they should be good at CQC, to be able to punish those within arms reach but to be vulnerable to range.
Right now DK excels at close and mid combat, while having the ability to turn ranged combat into CQC and keeping it there. On top of that they exceed at survival in all situations thanks to steroid class skills that work as group buffs as well. At the same time they have a plethora of AoE CC, AoE dmg, AoE dots and MULTIPLE self heals. All at the same time.
Either you bring the fight to a DK or a DK will bring you to the fight.
I play DK. This is what I have noted.

bandage106rwb17_ESO

Oh look, Monkey again trying to make another thread about the exact same thing.

RazzPitazz

bandage106rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh look, Monkey again trying to make another thread about the exact same thing.

Links plz. I wanna see the spam and how bad it is.

Hodorius

rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

bandage106rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh look, Monkey again trying to make another thread about the exact same thing.

Links plz. I wanna see the spam and how bad it is.

Click on his name and on "Discussions".
As this seems sooo hard for you I give you the links to three of them:

1.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/108250/dks-lack-bolt-escape-cloak-survival-mechanic-yet-you-nerf-their-survival-even-further-answer-pls#latest

2.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/106429/dks-get-4th-nerfhammer-rip-non-staff-non-light-armor-dks-will-be-useless-class-lack-uniqueness#latest

3.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/105532/the-current-situation-on-class-balance-in-pictures#latest

Gornt_Grimreaver

And?? What is wrong with fighting for your class choice? God knows NB's do it enough with all that ranting. Some nerfs are inevitable, in all classes but lately it seems DK's get hit every patch. The problem with it is that everyone talks about how OP they are but ALL those builds are sorc DK builds. Why nerf our skills that make us what we are and nerf the cause of it from the beginning? I know there are a few DK's who want to be casters but that shouldnt mean that the rest of us get swept under the rug with blanket nerfs. Hell eventually ZoS will figure out that its not so much the class skills and nerf light armor, destro, resto staffs... and when that happens DK's wont have anything to fall back on until they give the unique abilities back.

People are saying DK dps is insane!! Hell the way they talk I could solo Cyrodiil myself, no siege weapons, no nothing. I will just walk up naked and pronounce my OPness and everyone will turn over the elder scrolls to avoid the next oblivion... <rolls eyes> Have any of you watched a DK try ANY of the BS they are accused of with any other build that doesnt involve staves / light armor? If so I gotta see this esp. after the bash nerf. I see one nerf to templars and or NB's and the posts are non stop... and I understand you feel like they are dumping on an already flawed class, because they are honestly. However as a 1h/shield or 2 hand DK or even DW for that matter we are using the same skill lines in a stam build. So taking away the only original thing from the class destroys the class, at that rate there will be no classes. Just races of characters running around in light armor and staves.

So for the trolls out there who are waiting with the L2P QQ comments about how we are just mad we cant WTFPWNZ FACEROLL everything, newsflash!! Some of us dont want to be casters...leave the DK alone and balance the magica builds and buff thee stamina builds.

Sorry for the rant.

spliffmaster2b16_ESO

1. DKs have just about the same, if not better self-heal from class abilities as NBs and Sorcs.
2. Reflective Scales is just about the best PvP tanking skill in the game aside from Ultimates.
3. If you show me a Bow NB that does 1k+ dps in a 2 minute encounter I will eat a hat.

OkieDokie

monkeymystic wrote: »

Nightblades are currently topping DPS by a large margin on live by using staff and robes, which is yet another proof that shows how imbalanced weapon types and armor types are, and difference is even larger on PTS.
But nightblades are also capable of doing 1k+ DPS with bow, crit, passives and flawless dawnbreaker active.

DKs are currently below both Sorc and NB in terms of DPS by a large margin (when all use the best wep/armor spec staff + robes).
But NBs keep getting buffed and DKs keep getting nerfed.
If ZOS just realised they need to balance WEAPONS instead of CLASSES, things would maybe not screw things over so much.

Give us some real evidence.

Gornt_Grimreaver

Agreed, lol show me a 1h/shield DK doing 1k + dps and I will have a bite of that hat. Hell even 2 hand sustained dps....

RazzPitazz

Hodorius wrote: »

rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

bandage106rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh look, Monkey again trying to make another thread about the exact same thing.

Links plz. I wanna see the spam and how bad it is.

Click on his name and on "Discussions".
As this seems sooo hard for you I give you the links to three of them:

I took your advice and clicked on discussions, didnt realize it was an option. Might want to be a little more understanding with these things in the future, considering from your discussions you couldnt even figure out what a gametime code was let alone where to find it. It would suck if an alternate version of yourself answered that for you.

Hodorius

@rajaniemiorama_ESO

Reading/understanding what you red is not your best skill...

Feel free to reread my thread and try another aproach to mock me

Stamden

Completely Agree!

It sickens me that most of the community see this and will argue against it. But playing a DK right now is just very inconvenient and apparently it's only getting worse. ZoS is basically giving DKs 2 options: Reroll or Unsubscribe

Tiyamel

lol NB OP and DK sucks? literally laughing my *** arse off. oh god that was too good, needed the chuckle, thanks.

Nox_Aeterna

His threads are so funny :P.

He actually keeps saying DKs suck , mate , if DKs suck , then there is no reason for the other classes in this game , because they are worse than trash apparently.

Kayira

I started reading the thread, saw it was monkeymystic and stopped reading. I think we got it by now. DK's are just so nerfed and misunderstood. We really should increase all their damage and self heal so that they can run all trials solo in 30min or less.

yelloweyedemon

Someone's afraid he'll give a goodbye kiss to EZmode dayz!

Attorneyatlawl

Tiyamel wrote: »

lol NB OP and DK sucks? literally laughing my *** arse off. oh god that was too good, needed the chuckle, thanks.

I play both NB and DK at VR12 and the game has definitely done a 180 with DK's now being the bottom/near-bottom and NB's being on top. They've overnerfed DK's and overbuffed NB's, while the community is still begging for more changes. @Monkeymystic is actually providing a pretty accurate assessment here with his OP.

bandage106rwb17_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Tiyamel wrote: »

lol NB OP and DK sucks? literally laughing my *** arse off. oh god that was too good, needed the chuckle, thanks.

I play both NB and DK at VR12 and the game has definitely done a 180 with DK's now being the bottom/near-bottom and NB's being on top. They've overnerfed DK's and overbuffed NB's, while the community is still begging for more changes. @Monkeymystic is actually providing a pretty accurate assessment here with his OP.

Please stop, you guys always know how to make the community laugh. If I can make a bunch of DK builds on the PTS and make my build work I don't understand how someone who has more experience than me with the class can be struggling to out DPS a NB.

MrBeatDown

Their method of Adjusting characters is severely flawed. They have already admitted that This template we are using on the PTS is the same one that they used for Craglorn. We all seen the results of that flop of a trash patch update. People need to understand that this is 100% ZOS fault that the game is doing so poor and that's why most of the subscribers are upset about character balances. They simply do not know how to manage there own game. We see it all the time with these start up MMO'S and unfortunately this just happens to another one of those games that has already began to tank hard a few months after release. Its such a disappointment but we cant do anything about it as consumers. All we can do is wait for another game to come out or go back to Old games that do work. Ill probably go back to an old game myself because im tired of spending money on all these new games that come out. I no longer wish to support these pay to play betas. Ive got a game that still works fine and hasn't been updated in about 5 years. I hope it stays that way too. Seeing how all these new game developers always fail with there games/patches/ideas I guess its just best to sit back and wait some more. I keep telling myself that eventually someone is going to get it right. But its been about 14 years since a game was developed that I feel like was actually worth a $hit. Its sad really, Its like these people don't understand the basic fundamentals of a Truly successful MMO. Even the Red Flag of Unsubs has not woke these people up yet. Its pathetic.

RangerChad

SO why can DK just stand there with block held down and only using a select few skills, and taking on 10-20 mobs? If DK is bottom feeder, what is Templar?

bandage106rwb17_ESO

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Their method of Adjusting characters is severely flawed. They have already admitted that This template we are using on the PTS is the same one that they used for Craglorn. We all seen the results of that flop of a trash patch update. People need to understand that this is 100% ZOS fault that the game is doing so poor and that's why most of the subscribers are upset about character balances. They simply do not know how to manage there own game. We see it all the time with these start up MMO'S and unfortunately this just happens to another one of those games that has already began to tank hard a few months after release. Its such a disappointment but we cant do anything about it as consumers. All we can do is wait for another game to come out or go back to Old games that do work. Ill probably go back to an old game myself because im tired of spending money on all these new games that come out. I no longer wish to support these pay to play betas. Ive got a game that still works fine and hasn't been updated in about 5 years. I hope it stays that way too. Seeing how all these new game developers always fail with there games/patches/ideas I guess its just best to sit back and wait some more. I keep telling myself that eventually someone is going to get it right. But its been about 14 years since a game was developed that I feel like was actually worth a $hit. Its sad really, Its like these people don't understand the basic fundamentals of a Truly successful MMO. Even the Red Flag of Unsubs has not woke these people up yet. Its pathetic.

Okay, bye.

MrBeatDown

bandage106rwb17_ESO wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Their method of Adjusting characters is severely flawed. They have already admitted that This template we are using on the PTS is the same one that they used for Craglorn. We all seen the results of that flop of a trash patch update. People need to understand that this is 100% ZOS fault that the game is doing so poor and that's why most of the subscribers are upset about character balances. They simply do not know how to manage there own game. We see it all the time with these start up MMO'S and unfortunately this just happens to another one of those games that has already began to tank hard a few months after release. Its such a disappointment but we cant do anything about it as consumers. All we can do is wait for another game to come out or go back to Old games that do work. Ill probably go back to an old game myself because im tired of spending money on all these new games that come out. I no longer wish to support these pay to play betas. Ive got a game that still works fine and hasn't been updated in about 5 years. I hope it stays that way too. Seeing how all these new game developers always fail with there games/patches/ideas I guess its just best to sit back and wait some more. I keep telling myself that eventually someone is going to get it right. But its been about 14 years since a game was developed that I feel like was actually worth a $hit. Its sad really, Its like these people don't understand the basic fundamentals of a Truly successful MMO. Even the Red Flag of Unsubs has not woke these people up yet. Its pathetic.

Okay, bye.

Na I get to stick around and pour salt in the wound till my subscription is up, Then bye.

Stamden

RangerChad wrote: »

SO why can DK just stand there with block held down and only using a select few skills, and taking on 10-20 mobs? If DK is bottom feeder, what is Templar?

Every class can hold down right click

RangerChad

And survive while killing mobs?

Stamden

RangerChad wrote: »

And survive while killing mobs?

Hold down block and spam impulse. Very easy.

Kililin

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

RangerChad wrote: »

And survive while killing mobs?

Hold down block and spam impulse. Very easy.

QFT

I really wonder what all the people are doing, Impulse spam works every time.
I would like to see proof and videos of proper built NB's that struggle in current release or on PTS...

anakaki

So I tried DK on PTS. It's so OP it's laughable. If I can make it work how come ppl with 3 months experience can't? Sorry but, L2P.

Evergreen

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

His threads are so funny :P.

Monekymystic went too far on this one.

Drachdhar

I would like to know what buffs NBs has gotten which suddenly made them jump to number 1 damage dealer. From notes and looking at my own NB nothing has changed at all, some bug fixes. No enormous leaps in damage output.