Please.. enough with the DK nerfs/NB buffs

vokage89

yanno.. as much as everyone cries that thier class is bad.. i just dont see it.. i have tested them all ... and they all are good in thier own ways...

imo if you are havin issues..look some things up or learn to play.

DKs did need a nerf.. but the way they were nerfed was wrong.

one example .. how are you gonna nerf the ult of a class thats aimed more twards tanking from 30% to 20% and have a stealthies remain at 30% up to 70% dmg reduct.. i dont get it...

so is it safe to assume 70-90% of all NBs suck ..?? so we just need to buff that class?? i mean ... RLY? well in that case watch out for the good nbs after that.. my god...
I have seen some pretty badass nbs.. i think yall just need take some notes.

or ( zeni needs to fix the magic/stam balance.. and work on balance of classes and skills a bit more.. so these ppl have nothin to blame but thier ablitily to play.

best way to do this btw is to start with dps... then move on to the utilitly skills of classes which define them in pvp/pve dont think i need to go into detail on that
you can figure it out zeni

KORJ

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

Proof of NB DPS 1.2K Single Target

It does not prove anything.
No fight time, No list of the used skills.
Just blurred screenshot, with abilities that do not give even 800 DPS in a long battle.

I can hit the boss in the back on 2k dps, and then immediately die from his kick and make a screenshot of where I have 2k DPS on a single target. =_=

Stamden

KORJ wrote: »

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

Proof of NB DPS 1.2K Single Target

It does not prove anything.
No fight time, No list of the used skills.
Just blurred screenshot, with abilities that do not give even 800 DPS in a long battle.

I can hit the boss in the back on 2k dps, and then immediately die from his kick and make a screenshot of where I have 2k DPS on a single target. =_=

You can also deny evidence that is clearly infront of you.

Oh wait your already doing that.

Braddass

Geez guys. The OP was obviously making a joke (or trolling). No one with an IQ better than 10 could believe what he wrote. Since I am not willing to believe he is that stupid (or that obvious a troll), the only other option is that he is joking.

Elgarr

Seriously, when will people learn.

The beatings WILL continue until morale improves!

Aoifesan

vokage89 wrote: »

yanno.. as much as everyone cries that thier class is bad.. i just dont see it.. i have tested them all ... and they all are good in thier own ways...

imo if you are havin issues..look some things up or learn to play.

DKs did need a nerf.. but the way they were nerfed was wrong.

one example .. how are you gonna nerf the ult of a class thats aimed more twards tanking from 30% to 20% and have a stealthies remain at 30% up to 70% dmg reduct.. i dont get it...

so is it safe to assume 70-90% of all NBs suck ..?? so we just need to buff that class?? i mean ... RLY? well in that case watch out for the good nbs after that.. my god...
I have seen some pretty badass nbs.. i think yall just need take some notes.

or ( zeni needs to fix the magic/stam balance.. and work on balance of classes and skills a bit more.. so these ppl have nothin to blame but thier ablitily to play.

best way to do this btw is to start with dps... then move on to the utilitly skills of classes which define them in pvp/pve dont think i need to go into detail on that
you can figure it out zeni

No it's that the bugs that AFFLICT this class are more apt to kill them when the client goes pearl shaped.

Doesn't matter how you build it if you are hitting abilities and they animate but do no damage and no healing.

Stamden

Braddass wrote: »

Geez guys. The OP was obviously making a joke (or trolling). No one with an IQ better than 10 could believe what he wrote. Since I am not willing to believe he is that stupid (or that obvious a troll), the only other option is that he is joking.

You could start by saying what you disagree with, because it seems most of the people here and on the forums understand what is going on.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Actually, i'm surprised 1.2.3 doesn't have any real DK nerfs in it, just some skill rebalancing which they SHOULD be doing.

Where are my nerfs ZoS? WHERE?!

badmojo0777b14_ESO

as a player with both a DK and a NB I can impartially say that DKs are far and away superior to NBs in terms of RAW DAMAGE. while the NB does seem to have an advantage in terms of utility and cool "gadget abilities" this will never compensate for the DK or Sorcerers ability to do superior DPS. in terms of end game content no one cares if your NB can Shadow Cloak or CC, especially when you can only average a little over half the damage of a DK or Sorcerer

Stamden

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Actually, i'm surprised 1.2.3 doesn't have any real DK nerfs in it, just some skill rebalancing which they SHOULD be doing.

Where are my nerfs ZoS? WHERE?!

Much stupid.

DeLindsay

badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »

as a player with both a DK and a NB I can impartially say that DKs are far and away superior to NBs in terms of RAW DAMAGE. while the NB does seem to have an advantage in terms of utility and cool "gadget abilities" this will never compensate for the DK or Sorcerers ability to do superior DPS. in terms of end game content no one cares if your NB can Shadow Cloak or CC, especially when you can only average a little over half the damage of a DK or Sorcerer

Ah so what's the ST DPS of those DK's and Sorcs these days? I ask because it's been proven that NB can now deal out ~850 DPS ST in Trials. Sure when it comes to pure AOE DPS NB is still inferior, but ST is all that matters on bosses where it's beat the phase timer or insta wipe.

khele23eb17_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ah so what's the ST DPS of those DK's and Sorcs these days? I ask because it's been proven that NB can now deal out ~850 DPS ST in Trials. Sure when it comes to pure AOE DPS NB is still inferior, but ST is all that matters on bosses where it's beat the phase timer or insta wipe.

Nightsticks... or Nightskirts...

Stamden

DeLindsay wrote: »

badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »

as a player with both a DK and a NB I can impartially say that DKs are far and away superior to NBs in terms of RAW DAMAGE. while the NB does seem to have an advantage in terms of utility and cool "gadget abilities" this will never compensate for the DK or Sorcerers ability to do superior DPS. in terms of end game content no one cares if your NB can Shadow Cloak or CC, especially when you can only average a little over half the damage of a DK or Sorcerer

Ah so what's the ST DPS of those DK's and Sorcs these days? I ask because it's been proven that NB can now deal out ~850 DPS ST in Trials. Sure when it comes to pure AOE DPS NB is still inferior, but ST is all that matters on bosses where it's beat the phase timer or insta wipe.

All classes max ST DPS is around 1.2k. All classes can also spam impulse for nearly the same AoE DPS too.

DeLindsay

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

All classes max ST DPS is around 1.2k. All classes can also spam impulse for nearly the same AoE DPS too.

Did they ninja buff Templars? All I see every day on the forums is constant complaints from Templars that they're the worst of the 4 Classes in DPS and you're saying even they can hit 1.2K DPS ST? I'd love to see that video my friend.

Stamden

DeLindsay wrote: »

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

All classes max ST DPS is around 1.2k. All classes can also spam impulse for nearly the same AoE DPS too.

Did they ninja buff Templars? All I see every day on the forums is constant complaints from Templars that they're the worst of the 4 Classes in DPS and you're saying even they can hit 1.2K DPS ST? I'd love to see that video my friend.

When I talk about classes, I don't include Templars, since they are broken. They're probably the only class that needs actual changes.

DeLindsay

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

All classes max ST DPS is around 1.2k. All classes can also spam impulse for nearly the same AoE DPS too.

I bolded it for ya

Braddass

OP ... if you honestly believe that NB is on par with DK, I have some oceanfront property in Arkansas you might be interested in ...

williams226

I been playing my DW Nightblade last few days, upto level 27 now. I think I see some slight improvements to the class and like ZOS said, its small adjustments here and there.

I would still like shadow cloak to be fixed as I am still getting knocked out of invis due to dots/hots.

Not saying we are on par or not on par just saying I think we are better off than before.

Braddass

If there is a race, and some people are given Porches, and other people are give bicycles ... slight adjustments to the bicycles might make things better ... but are not really going to do much to make things fair.

Sheaden

I play a DK primary and a Templar secondary both high Vet rank. My girlfriend plays a Nightblade. We sit next to each other while we play, I see her screen, she sees my screen. I played a nightblade throughout the beta however I really wanted to "break the mold" from my typical role in mmo's by going with something different. If I could class change on one of my toons to a nightblade I would do so without hesitation. This is a summary of our comparison.

The damage output of a Nightblade in pvp is absolutely absurd. They have multiple abilities that can skewer people for over 1000 damage. Her impale finisher hits for 1500+, Ambush from stealth 1500+, concealed weapon following ambush 1500+, her funnel health also hits like a truck (over 1000+). If you're having trouble surviving as a nightblade, you're probably being too aggressive in the first place lets be honest. My girlfriend picks and chooses when to engage with her nightblade and if the odds get stacked against her she's able to dark cloak and retreat to safety with a decent amount of success due to invisibility and stealth.

As a DK you have one ability that does solid single target damage that is a burst ability (burst ability aka does all it's damage at once) and that would be flame lash, however despite being an "instant" ability it has a crappy animation that makes it feel like it's got a channel. Almost ALL your other damage is DOT based and does it's damage over 20 years (10+ seconds) and gets promptly purged by anyone with a brain. DK is the WEAKEST class when it comes in terms of doing any significant amount of SINGLE target dps with CLASS abilities.

Banner of Might recently got nerfed and I think that's fine. However I do not believe banners should stack. Want to use a bunch of banners to cover a larger area? Fine. But allowing them to stack is too powerful.

Ultimates-

DK -

Banner - This lasts a bit too long (I'd cut it from 17 down to 12-13 seconds) and should not stack with other banners, other than that recent changes (nerfs) are pretty reasonable in my opinion.

Dragon Leap - Is a cool ability that nobody ever uses because it's just not very good. I love the concept behind this ultimate but it's really only a "neat" utility. If you use it from max range don't expect to hit anyone with it unless they're afk. The recent change removing the minimum range is a small step to making it somewhat useable. This ability would potentially be worth using if the animation was faster and it's damage scaled upwards based on distance traveled. As of right now the damage is pretty mediocre for an ultimate.

Magma Armor- this ability I rarely ever use because I seldom can tell the difference in mitigation. It really fails to impress me as an "ultimate". Sounds good on paper, however in practice it just doesn't seem to do a whole lot.

Nightblade -

Soul Harvest - Yep, just like the name sounds...if utilized properly will enable most Nightblades to two shot almost anyone when coupled with impale. Hits from stealth, does a TON of damage, and the ton of damage scales upwards (to 275%) the more ultimate you have. Oh and you're never at a shortage of ultimate since it passively increases all your ultimate gains immensely.

Veil of Blades- This thing is crazy, who doesn't want 15 seconds of taking 60% less damage?! Oh wait it does more.. you know that nasty snare DOT almost everyone (in pvp) uses from the soul magic tree (soul assault)? This has an AOE snare at that same level (70%). Oh wait, it ALSO does nasty magic damage that ticks 2x per second for 15 seconds. Finally, it provides synergy that is basically a mass invisibility spell. WHAT?!

Soul Tether- A long stun that does massive magical burst damage in an aoe, but also does high damage over time to a single target while healing the nightblade. Also provides a synergy that deals strong magic damage while healing allies. So in summary it's a CC that does massive AOE while laying a nasty single target DOT that heals the caster and his friends simultaneously.

This has been a comparison of some of the more commonly used skills from DK and Nightblade and the classes respective ultimates.

I think it's funny this thread got side-tracked to a debate on which class can pull off a stamina based single target dps build better.

Weapon skills are pretty much terrible at the moment. They need to be balanced.

Jaxom

Sheaden wrote: »

The damage output of a Nightblade in pvp is absolutely absurd. They have multiple abilities that can skewer people for over 1000 damage. Her impale finisher hits for 1500+, Ambush from stealth 1500+, concealed weapon following ambush 1500+, her funnel health also hits like a truck (over 1000+). If you're having trouble surviving as a nightblade, you're probably being too aggressive in the first place lets be honest. My girlfriend picks and chooses when to engage with her nightblade and if the odds get stacked against her she's able to dark cloak and retreat to safety with a decent amount of success due to invisibility and stealth.


Nightblade -

Soul Harvest - Yep, just like the name sounds...if utilized properly will enable most Nightblades to two shot almost anyone when coupled with impale. Hits from stealth, does a TON of damage, and the ton of damage scales upwards (to 275%) the more ultimate you have. Oh and you're never at a shortage of ultimate since it passively increases all your ultimate gains immensely.

Veil of Blades- This thing is crazy, who doesn't want 15 seconds of taking 60% less damage?! Oh wait it does more.. you know that nasty snare DOT almost everyone (in pvp) uses from the soul magic tree (soul assault)? This has an AOE snare at that same level (70%). Oh wait, it ALSO does nasty magic damage that ticks 2x per second for 15 seconds. Finally, it provides synergy that is basically a mass invisibility spell. WHAT?!

Soul Tether- A long stun that does massive magical burst damage in an aoe, but also does high damage over time to a single target while healing the nightblade. Also provides a synergy that deals strong magic damage while healing allies. So in summary it's a CC that does massive AOE while laying a nasty single target DOT that heals the caster and his friends simultaneously.

This has been a comparison of some of the more commonly used skills from DK and Nightblade and the classes respective ultimates.

I think it's funny this thread got side-tracked to a debate on which class can pull off a stamina based single target dps build better.

Weapon skills are pretty much terrible at the moment. They need to be balanced.

Calling ***'s on this. There is no way Funnel Health is hitting for 1000+. I have my Spell Damage nearly maxed out and I hit for 700-800 with crits. A normal Funnel health will hit for 400-500.

Concealed weapon crits for about 800 ish (1300 from stealth if you can get lucky) and Ambush for around 1000-1200 from stealth.

Again, both my Weapon Damage and Spell damage are close to cap with 60% Spell Crit and 25% weapon crit. Soul Harvest is a nice attack but no longer crits from stealth and can hit for maybe 1000 if you overcharge it to 250 ultimate. Soul Assualt is better at 150 Ultimate.

Maybe you are confusing PvE numbers vs PvP numbers but what you are saying just simply isnt happening. I can crit my Ambush in PvE for 2700 damage with Combat Prayer. No way in hell do I see those numbers in PvP.

Also, besides burst from stealth, our ability is severly lacking in PvP. If they survive the initial Ambush and Conconcealed weapon attack, chances are you are dead since our Shadow Cloak is broken beyond belief.

I will give you that Veil of Blades is great. Impale is a fantastic finisher but we are really a one trick pony with little options to go outside the mold if we have to be even remotely effective.

I saw a DK last night survive being hit by 2 Soul Assaults at the same time. He never dropped below 50% health. Something is wrong there.

Selodaoc

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ah so what's the ST DPS of those DK's and Sorcs these days? I ask because it's been proven that NB can now deal out ~850 DPS ST in Trials. Sure when it comes to pure AOE DPS NB is still inferior, but ST is all that matters on bosses where it's beat the phase timer or insta wipe.

Nightblades with staff and light armor can yes. Nightblades using melee class skills and DW arent even close, and THATS what Nightblades wants buffed. About 1% rolled NB to run around in a gown and wielding a stick.

Stamden

I think the reason some people think DKs are good is because alot use sword and shield. Fact is, in a 1v1, who ever blocks more is going win. The fact that you can mitigate a large portion of the damage (and CC) by using a bit of your stamina to block makes blocking very powerful. Particularly with sword and shield.

However, there isn't any reason other classes can't use sword and shield as well. Try it NBs.

Sheaden

Jaxom wrote: »

Sheaden wrote: »

The damage output of a Nightblade in pvp is absolutely absurd. They have multiple abilities that can skewer people for over 1000 damage. Her impale finisher hits for 1500+, Ambush from stealth 1500+, concealed weapon following ambush 1500+, her funnel health also hits like a truck (over 1000+). If you're having trouble surviving as a nightblade, you're probably being too aggressive in the first place lets be honest. My girlfriend picks and chooses when to engage with her nightblade and if the odds get stacked against her she's able to dark cloak and retreat to safety with a decent amount of success due to invisibility and stealth.


Nightblade -

Soul Harvest - Yep, just like the name sounds...if utilized properly will enable most Nightblades to two shot almost anyone when coupled with impale. Hits from stealth, does a TON of damage, and the ton of damage scales upwards (to 275%) the more ultimate you have. Oh and you're never at a shortage of ultimate since it passively increases all your ultimate gains immensely.

Veil of Blades- This thing is crazy, who doesn't want 15 seconds of taking 60% less damage?! Oh wait it does more.. you know that nasty snare DOT almost everyone (in pvp) uses from the soul magic tree (soul assault)? This has an AOE snare at that same level (70%). Oh wait, it ALSO does nasty magic damage that ticks 2x per second for 15 seconds. Finally, it provides synergy that is basically a mass invisibility spell. WHAT?!

Soul Tether- A long stun that does massive magical burst damage in an aoe, but also does high damage over time to a single target while healing the nightblade. Also provides a synergy that deals strong magic damage while healing allies. So in summary it's a CC that does massive AOE while laying a nasty single target DOT that heals the caster and his friends simultaneously.

This has been a comparison of some of the more commonly used skills from DK and Nightblade and the classes respective ultimates.

I think it's funny this thread got side-tracked to a debate on which class can pull off a stamina based single target dps build better.

Weapon skills are pretty much terrible at the moment. They need to be balanced.

Calling ***'s on this. There is no way Funnel Health is hitting for 1000+. I have my Spell Damage nearly maxed out and I hit for 700-800 with crits. A normal Funnel health will hit for 400-500.

Concealed weapon crits for about 800 ish (1300 from stealth if you can get lucky) and Ambush for around 1000-1200 from stealth.

Again, both my Weapon Damage and Spell damage are close to cap with 60% Spell Crit and 25% weapon crit. Soul Harvest is a nice attack but no longer crits from stealth and can hit for maybe 1000 if you overcharge it to 250 ultimate. Soul Assualt is better at 150 Ultimate.

Maybe you are confusing PvE numbers vs PvP numbers but what you are saying just simply isnt happening. I can crit my Ambush in PvE for 2700 damage with Combat Prayer. No way in hell do I see those numbers in PvP.

Also, besides burst from stealth, our ability is severly lacking in PvP. If they survive the initial Ambush and Conconcealed weapon attack, chances are you are dead since our Shadow Cloak is broken beyond belief.

I will give you that Veil of Blades is great. Impale is a fantastic finisher but we are really a one trick pony with little options to go outside the mold if we have to be even remotely effective.

I saw a DK last night survive being hit by 2 Soul Assaults at the same time. He never dropped below 50% health. Something is wrong there.

Shenanigans on your shenanigans! So you're complaining about funnel health 700-800 crit in pvp? I've seen concealed weapon crits hit my DK who's pretty tanky for just under 900 damage so on a cloth or med armor I can only assume it's hitting them for 1k+ .. and 1300+ from stealth you say? Ambush for around 1k-1.2k from stealth. Wow it must be rough doing such a trivial amount of damage.

Must be rough... I'm sure you'd much rather trade all that for a Dragonknights ability to "sometimes" (due to the nationally televised animation) land a flame lash crit for in the 400-550 range.

Nightblade is the only class that has a built in class skill that allows you to seemlessly utilize stealth attacks mid-combat. Most Nightblades don't utilize that to their advantage nearly enough.

My point is that EVERY other class has it better than DK in terms of single target burst class skills which puts it at a disadvantage in pvp. Survivability is literally all we have right now, and even that is mainly decent only because of sword and shield which any other class has access to.

If you're still dying to soul assault regularly in pvp... shame on you. Make sure you have a gap closer and hit interrupt. Problem solved. If you're saying he survived the full duration of 2x simultaneous soul assaults then it was likely due to a well timed magma armor which is specifically designed to withstand such attacks. I can assure you that his ability to deal damage is vastly different from his ability to withstand it.

Matuzes

Sheaden wrote: »

Nightblade is the only class that has a built in class skill that allows you to seemlessly utilize stealth attacks mid-combat. Most Nightblades don't utilize that to their advantage nearly enough.

Invisibility ≠ Stealth
Invisibility dont give stealth big bonus damage and 100% crit.

Sheaden wrote: »

Her impale finisher hits for 1500+, Ambush from stealth 1500+, concealed weapon following ambush 1500+, her funnel health also hits like a truck (over 1000+)

Screenshots or video. I want to see this, especially 1500+ from Concealed Weapon not from stealth.

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

However, there isn't any reason other classes can't use sword and shield as well. Try it NBs.

There is. NB cant insta heal 30% missing health and without resto staff cant heal DKs dots.

Sheaden

matprzewlokaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Sheaden wrote: »

Nightblade is the only class that has a built in class skill that allows you to seemlessly utilize stealth attacks mid-combat. Most Nightblades don't utilize that to their advantage nearly enough.

Invisibility ≠ Stealth
Invisibility dont give stealth big bonus damage and 100% crit.

Sheaden wrote: »

Her impale finisher hits for 1500+, Ambush from stealth 1500+, concealed weapon following ambush 1500+, her funnel health also hits like a truck (over 1000+)

Screenshots or video. I want to see this, especially 1500+ from Concealed Weapon not from stealth.

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

However, there isn't any reason other classes can't use sword and shield as well. Try it NBs.

There is. NB cant insta heal 30% missing health and without resto staff cant heal DKs dots.

Not hard for concealed weapon to hit that with + spell power rings and the + 36% damage bonus after an ambush on a crit..especially when you put an hour long (60 second) debuff on someone that nerfs their armor by 75%. Yeah you nightblades have it sooo rough.

OkieDokie

That is out of context (I'll not even discuss the values). Sneak bonus is a one time damage only. Just the opening. After that, this damage is pretty low.

Matuzes

Sheaden wrote: »

Not hard for concealed weapon to hit that with + spell power rings and the + 36% damage bonus after an ambush on a crit..especially when you put an hour long (60 second) debuff on someone that nerfs their armor by 75%. Yeah you nightblades have it sooo rough.

You know nothing, Sheaden.

Please, make that video with 1500+ crit out of stealth on vr12 mob or player.

Sheaden

Concealed weapon out of stealth following ambush was hitting for 800-900 my bad. Either way, it's still a LOT more than ANY ability a DK can hit with.

So you take a 1600 Ambush from stealth, an 800-900 damage concealed weapon following Ambush due to the +36% damage bonus and then hit impale for 1300.

Typically all of these can be fired before the target has an opportunity to even move especially considering impale hits from range so really you only need to hit 2 buttons in order to fire your finisher.

*Note* The whole point of this argument is how strong nightblades single target attacks are in pvp, yet since I started in about this not a SINGLE person has disagreed with my baseline argument that DK's have 1 actual single target burst ability which is inferior to multiple nightblade abilities.

cracker81

Devlinne wrote: »

Dk runs into a crowd of 10, kills 4, maybe 5, then dies.
What happens when a NB runs into a crowd of 10 eh?

For the LULZ! You have the NERVE to use NB as a comparison......My god-___-

P.S. Crowd of 10 PPL, not MOBS.

Nb are single target type and dk more tanky. Pick choose your fight if I was a NB find someone as in like 1 to 3 players to kill