Dear ZOS - veteran levels are killing ESO. Please wake up to this.

Rylana

I think my biggest complaint about veteran levels is that its plainly obvious this is their intended plan to continue raising the cap/power creep.

The problem is that as they are doing this, they are shutting down all of the best ways to gain materials/rare items for crafting and research.

Its getting to the point, only a month in, that I dont even care anymore if I am wearing blue vet 10 stuff i made without most pieces having a set bonus. Its gonna be three months before I can actually craft what I want my toon to be wearing, and by the time we get there, the level cap will probably be vr14.

Im hesitant to even craft a vr12 suit for this reason.

the other thing is that almost every quest in craglorn rewards tinnnyyyyy xp compared to the effort put in. The main quest part about killing the "lost one" felt extremely let down after going through that nightmare of 4-man fights.

Flat out said in teamspeak tonight: "Did we seriously get a green inferno staff for all of that? seriously?"

Start rewarding purples and golds as quest rewards at the highest levels, seriously.

Fully specced into the line it takes over 60 gold improvement items to finish a suit. Getting 60 is not exactly something I am looking forward to doing. After the dupe bug flooded the market and people started hoarding all of those, the prices have risen steadily as demand actually exists now but the supply is completely finite.

They dont drop. You rarely get them out of a top tier scraps refine, and you MIGHT get one or two every few days out of hirelings. Youre talking 6-8 weeks minimum to get the tempers for one characters gear, yet you are raising the level caps every 30 days or so? No.

Bromburak

Altissimus wrote: »

Your player base is declining.

They are not the base, its your wish but in fact they are a part of the base ...
And you are not speaking for the other part!

I can't make this message clear enough: if you don't address more of what the players are wanting, and soon, you won't have to worry about bots and spammers any more because they'll realise there's no players to sell to.

Awesome, the leechers and tons of adding players to my fights and pulls are leaving.

EQBallzz

Altissimus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

They have already stated that the increase in VR difficulty was not intended and will likely be hot fixed within 24 hours.

This isn't about vet difficulty post-1.1.2. This is about the vet grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrind with no incentive or reason.

Uhhh..The vet content is the best part of the game. I really don't understand what you guys expect. If there was no vet content then what would you do? Whine on the forums that there is no new content and nothing to do? If the content was separate for each faction and 50 was max people would just whine that they had to roll alts to see the other factions. Some of you people are just never happy regardless of what you get.

It's not *that* hard to level. You don't have to grind quests. Do public dungeons. Do PvP or do PvE stuff in Cyrodiil. Do Craglorn. I did a Craglorn public dungeon tonight with a guild group of 4 and none of us were VR10 and we had no problem. We also formed a guild group and ran around all the vet zones to complete all dark anchors/pub dungeons/world bosses that people had not completed for whatever reason. Everyone got a nice XP boost..even those that had completed them and it was fun.

If none of these options are appealing to you then why are you even playing this game? I don't get it.

kasain

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm basically stuck. I'm a Vet rank 2 Bow Templar, and almost anything decimates me.

I only have 891 gold, so respeccing is not an option.
And with the Cyrodiil nerf, Cyrodiil questing is also no longer an option.

Please fix Vet levels!
I don't mind if I have to quest but I actually want to enjoy myself and not die over and over again if I attack more than 1 mob.

Why respec, go farm skyshards. Get skills

Catdrexion

It's ridiculous that if we want to do any end tier content we have to suffer through the basic storyline twice over. I am at Veteran 7 and all I've done since level 1 is questing and running around killing mobs, it's ridiculous. I was okay with it when I got to level 50, that was just enough. Then I had to do AD because I wanted to be ready for endgame even though I hate that faction. I finished it and I got a level 50 jewelry piece that was worse than the quest rewards and immediately told I had to do it again.

Altissimus

Bromburak wrote: »

Altissimus wrote: »

Your player base is declining.

They are not the base, its your wish but in fact they are a part of the base ...
And you are not speaking for the other part!

English isn't your first language, is it?

Bromburak wrote: »

Altissimus wrote: »

I can't make this message clear enough: if you don't address more of what the players are wanting, and soon, you won't have to worry about bots and spammers any more because they'll realise there's no players to sell to.

Awesome, the leechers and tons of adding players to my fights and pulls are leaving.

If you feel this way, play a single player game.

Mendra

Yes i have to say i totally agree with EQBallzz.

First i would say that i'm happy with what some of you call "recycled areas" because i wanted to see all part of tamriel without doing an alt.

Second difficulty is great, because it just shows you that if you are dying to much there are another options : make better gear, learn how to really handle fights, but it shows you also that there are dugeons, pvp area to do.

People complained about the game : "This is a solo game not a real MMO."
Now people complain about : "The difficulty is too hard for me"
So stop playing alone ! (game is not too hard when you are more than one)

Pick one and it's contrary and everytime theatening with sub seems the rule so far.

Each game have its personnality, it's designed for a community, not to suit all the desires from some people.

I love the game, i love what is coming next in the game. I will pay my sub for a long time. I want it to improve, not to change.

Rylana

It would be kind of nice to see a dungeon map i havent seen 20 times before...

seriously there are only like 5 or 6 actual delve/dungeon maps and they just flip them around or add a new room or whatever

for the most part its always the same map =/

I was real disappointed to see one of the new 4 man dungeons in craglorn was just wayrest sewers flipped horizontally

Bromburak

Altissimus wrote: »

English isn't your first language, is it?

Reading and understanding is not your strength, is it?

Altissimus wrote:

Awesome, the leechers and tons of adding players to my fights and pulls are leaving.

If you feel this way, play a single player game.

Most gamers respect the pulls of others instead adding into every single fight ...
Something you apparently don't know. Fine, but no reason for us to play other games!

If you feel to add or leech every fight, you quite new to MMOs or ignorant as hell.

Altissimus

Bromburak wrote: »

Altissimus wrote: »

English isn't your first language, is it?

Reading and understanding is not your strength, is it?

Altissimus wrote:

Awesome, the leechers and tons of adding players to my fights and pulls are leaving.

If you feel this way, play a single player game.

Most gamers respect the pulls of others instead adding into every single fight ...
Something you apparently don't know. Fine, but no reason for us to play other games!

If you feel to add or leech every fight, you quite new to MMOs or ignorant as hell.

Sigh.

Ok, so the reason I said "English isn't your first language" is because you showed a lack of comprehension of the term "player base". You stated "They are not the base" (incorrect understanding of the term "player base") "its (sic) your wish but in fact they are a part of the base ..." (logical fallacy) "And you are not speaking for the other part!" (irrelevant due to logical fallacy).

The "player base", in this context, is everyone who plays ESO. Therefore, old son, they ARE the base.

Let's move on.

You said "Awesome, the leechers and tons of adding players (sic) to my fights and pulls are leaving." Leaving aside the fact that in ESO, there is no disadvantage if another player assists you in a fight - you still get the same loot and xp - making "leechers" and "adding players" (sic) a benefit and not detrimental, the very fact that (as you say) "most gamers respect the pulls of others" means that most gamers aren't your so-called "leechers" and "adding players", meaning that it is unlikely, as you have postulated, that "the leechers and tons of adding players" (sic) are, in fact, leaving. By your own logic. If you can call it that.

You further stated that "If you feel to add (sic) or leech every fight, you (sic) quite new to MMOs or ignorant as hell". Not only does this further reinforce the impression that English isn't your first language (which was raised as an observation, rather than a criticism, incidentally), at no point have I suggested that I feel the aforementioned need. I would postulate, however, that one that demonstrated such repeated play was probably quite canny, rather than ignorant as you have surmised.

Hope that helps.

A.

Gaudrath

The best part is, if they called veteran content level 50-150 and placed Coldharbour at the end of it all, nobody would be complaining because it would all be part of the main story and, well, there is no grind if you get levels all the time. Right? Right?

People are just too used to classic themepark MMOs. They don't get it that this game is designed to be played with one character. No need for alts. No point to them really. Especially when spellcrafting comes out, there will basically be no need to look at class skills as anything else than flavor.

In this game, if you want to "reroll", respec or just change the way you play. I started as a medium armor, dual daggers + bow ranger, went through full heavy armor 2H sword warrior phase and am now playing as light armor staff+2H sword battlemage. All as a Templar.

During this time, at no point was I stuck on content. At no point I felt gimped or unable to play through whatever PvE threw at me. I also kept up my PvP score to my satisfaction.

Next I plan on training up my resto staff skills so I can support better in PvP too. Again, same character.

And the fact that I can take a break from PvP and do PvE that is actually difficult on occasion is refreshing. I also like the fact that I can go through content without leveling every half an hour, so I can finally throw rare materials into crafting purple armor sets and weapons without outgrowing them a day later.

So there is no grind. The grind is in people's heads. It's like someone forcing themselves to read a good book as fast as they can so they can get to the end.

Altissimus

Gaudrath wrote: »

So there is no grind. The grind is in people's heads. It's like someone forcing themselves to read a good book as fast as they can so they can get to the end.

I get your point. The difference between there being "grind" and "no grind" is that in the latter case effort equates to reward, and in the former case it does not.

Levels 1-50 are no different to levels VR1-VR10, in as much as you're pretty much doing the same stuff and following a similar quest model etc etc. The reason people are more likely to call VR1-VR10 a "grind" is because the effort put in doesnotequal the reward, whereas in 1-50 the "rewards" (levelling up, increased stats, gaining skill points, access to higher level gear more rapidly, etc) were far more apparent.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Still crying over leveling speed....

Guppet

NaughtyDog wrote: »

I enjoy having more Veteran Levels. For hardcore players like myself, my character was max out and had the best of the best gear. So I made a new char to play on while I waited for the new contents. I was thrilled to find out that Vet levels increased, craglorn released, and more gear are dropping. Now I can play on my main again until it is max out again, switch back to my alt (which is vr7) and wait. As of right now my main character is Vr12 (Veteran Lvls are EASY if you know what you are doing), now I plan on running trials and looting gears until I am max again, play on my alt and wait once I finish all that.

That aside, I SOLO most of the vet content besides the private group dungeon (i.e Fungal Grotto, Vault of Madness, etc). I know how to utilize my builds and execute them accurately since Soloing requires great effort esp if you are fighting a storm atronach by yourself.

Veteran lvls are not killing the game. It is just annoying some of the players who casually play and/or came from another mmo's culture and expects ESO to be the same. Most of the happy players do not have the need to log on forums and rant/vent as they are too busy enjoying the game.

However, I understand many do not like this veteran lvling system that keeps on increasing. If you want a game that has a capped lvl, there are plenty of other games. ZOS is veering away from other mmo styles and I respect them for it.

So in short:
XP is not low, it is fine. It is actually really fast imo if you know what you are doing. Also, although VR lvls do not give much reward, the EXP they give to lvling your skills is great. You are encourage to swapped skills and lvl their morph form up. This way you can try out builds in different situations.

In Vet zones, you are expected to understand your characters' strength and weaknesses base on your build. As the lvl of vet zone increase, they challenge your understanding and forces you to create a more efficient build. Please do not use the "play the way you want to" as an excuse, if that's the case then the way I want to play is "booty arse naked" and run around one hit punching all the mobs in craglorn with my vet 1 char.

Responses like this should always include more important info. The most important being what is your weekly play time?

You have a VR12 and a VR7, I'm suspecting your weekly play time will be well in excess of what the average person works for. You are not what the game should be balanced for.

I think there is a direct correlation between weekly play time and weather people enjoy VR content.

Gaudrath

@Altissimus‌
They were more apparent, but that does not mean they were more valuable than VR ranks. As anyone who tries to take on VR rank players in PvP at lvl 50 will know.

This game is designed with content in mind. That's the reward. Now, that is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. Hell, I saw people clicking furiously through dialogues in SWTOR, NEW stuff they haven't seen before, just so they can get to completing the quest faster.

Some people see content as an obstacle to be overcome, not as a feature to be sampled and enjoyed. To them, quests are a grind, even though ESO goes to lengths to provide varied background stories for every quest. How many people go though all the follow up questions? There is a ton of content just to be listened to.

There is also the thing with slower level progression. This game is also designed so that players can be as self-sustaining as possible. Which means, you create your own rewards. As I mentioned, crafting purple and gold level gear, which gives you considerable advantage, is practical only at VR level.

Ultimately, grinding can be defined as a repetitive action performed with some ultimate goal in mind. In ESO's case, this choice is largely left to players. It has everything to do with how you play the game and why. Grinding is never FORCED on you, like it is in other games. Especially now that they increased XP gain for vet content and doubled XP gain for PvP.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

also crying over difficulty...The spontanious increase in difficulty was awesome. My char finally broke a sweat for a change, and eved died. I want to un-revert it.

kirbus

People love to hate on how long VR takes, but it really doesn't. each VR is the equivalent of 10 levels, 5 per faction, so if your going to complain about that complain about 1-50 as well. they could have made VR levels smaller going up to VR 100(120 now) but that would just be absurd, having to make separate vet armor increasing by 1/2 a point per rank.

My advice to all VR haters:

1. go grab a marker
2. draw on your screen over your VR bar, dividing it into 10
3. mar each section numerically
4. give yourself a big pat on the back each time you hit a new segment.

Gaudrath

Guppet wrote: »

I think there is a direct correlation between weekly play time and weather people enjoy VR content.

Not really, I can set aside maybe 1-2 hours a day for ESO. During which time my playstyle allows me to go through 1-3 quests per day since I always poke around everything and take in the sights.

So I reckon I'll get through to VR10 in about two months at this rate. Two months filled with interesting locales, NPCs and quests.

Not six months filled with killing 50 bears and 40 giant bats for some shaman who "wants their noggins" (don't ask why). That's grinding.

zombie2kornout

Altissimus wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Altissimus wrote: »

English isn't your first language, is it?

Reading and understanding is not your strength, is it?

Altissimus wrote:

Awesome, the leechers and tons of adding players to my fights and pulls are leaving.

If you feel this way, play a single player game.

Most gamers respect the pulls of others instead adding into every single fight ...
Something you apparently don't know. Fine, but no reason for us to play other games!

If you feel to add or leech every fight, you quite new to MMOs or ignorant as hell.

Sigh.

Ok, so the reason I said "English isn't your first language" is because you showed a lack of comprehension of the term "player base". You stated "They are not the base" (incorrect understanding of the term "player base") "its (sic) your wish but in fact they are a part of the base ..." (logical fallacy) "And you are not speaking for the other part!" (irrelevant due to logical fallacy).

The "player base", in this context, is everyone who plays ESO. Therefore, old son, they ARE the base.

Let's move on.

You said "Awesome, the leechers and tons of adding players (sic) to my fights and pulls are leaving." Leaving aside the fact that in ESO, there is no disadvantage if another player assists you in a fight - you still get the same loot and xp - making "leechers" and "adding players" (sic) a benefit and not detrimental, the very fact that (as you say) "most gamers respect the pulls of others" means that most gamers aren't your so-called "leechers" and "adding players", meaning that it is unlikely, as you have postulated, that "the leechers and tons of adding players" (sic) are, in fact, leaving. By your own logic. If you can call it that.

You further stated that "If you feel to add (sic) or leech every fight, you (sic) quite new to MMOs or ignorant as hell". Not only does this further reinforce the impression that English isn't your first language (which was raised as an observation, rather than a criticism, incidentally), at no point have I suggested that I feel the aforementioned need. I would postulate, however, that one that demonstrated such repeated play was probably quite canny, rather than ignorant as you have surmised.

Hope that helps.

A.

That was amusing, but "sic" is always bracketed while inside quotation marks and periods and commas are always inside of the quotation marks.

NaughtyDog

@Guppet‌ Sorry if my post was vague, but you (and anyone else) are more then welcome to ask me anymore info. I thought my post was getting a bit too long so I did not want to write so much.

Anyway, I play 4-5hrs a day (Less on Fridays but Sundays balance it out as I play more). The winter semester is over for me so I have plenty of time to play after work. Especially since I am not planning on taking any spring/summer classes.

Anyway, I completely did all the quests with my Vr12 (took forever!). However, my Vr7 is a little test I am doing. Believe it or not you can reach lvl 50 (Vet1) from lvl 1 within 20 hrs. From there you can reach Vet 5 within 32hrs. I am still wondering how fast I can reach Vet 10 and then Vet12 with my alt. Like I said you LVL REALLY fast if you know what you are doing. For those of you who think I am using exploits.....no I am not. The key is to understand that you do not have to do EVERY quest and you also do not have to follow the traditional "complete this zone and hop into a next zone" mindset. Why not skip around zones?

Gremmore

Well totally disagree with starter of this post. I love the V-ranks (before the patch!!!). Sure it's not easy, but with some good questing, world bosses, Public dungeons and a good number of Veteran Dungeons you level pretty fast!

Never saw any problem in this, sure at times it seemed longer (specially V1-3) but after it just flowed for me.

Never EVER EVER felt the urge to Grind... sure some quest are easy but hey!! common I for one don't want content where i can steam roll all that crosses my path. Like to have a feeling that i'm actually playing a good game myself, not just 1 push kill.

After the patch it's different though, now every single mob i encounter either kills me or i Kill him/her.. if it's more mobs and one of them is an archer i'm pretty much done for ... THAT is NOT fun gameplay... up till that moment No complaint whatsoever...

Think some people here want things done to quick and to easy and i think it's ruining more then it gives. Also for that matter i think the 1.1.2 patch came out 1-2 weeks to soon, just paying attention to the V10's while i'm sure there's still a lot more lower levels.

I was looking forward to reach V10 (close to V8 now), but now i've to get V12 already.. pffftttt... And i've been playing my hours so it feels bad.

now coffeee

Kililin

While i am all for making a game accessible i have to say i like Veteran Levels for the following reason:

There are less stupid and childish people, not none, but far less.
This has a positive effect on play experience.

In my opinion they should leave monster strength as it is now, and double xp once more, with a xp bonus for grouping like 15% per member but only for small groups. It would be a good change.

Quest phasing is beyond repair for group play sadly...

Guppet

NaughtyDog wrote: »

However, my Vr7 is a little test I am doing. Believe it or not you can reach lvl 50 (Vet1) from lvl 1 within 20 hrs. From there you can reach Vet 5 within 32hrs. I am still wondering how fast I can reach Vet 10 and then Vet12 with my alt. Like I said you LVL REALLY fast if you know what you are doing. For those of you who think I am using exploits.....no I am not. The key is to understand that you do not have to do EVERY quest and you also do not have to follow the traditional "complete this zone and hop into a next zone" mindset. Why not skip around zones?

Now this interests me greatly. I have rerolled my VR2 NB, to a different race, so now I need to catch back up. What are you doing to get from 1-50 so quick, as I took my time the first run through, so can now skip whatever I need to, without feeling cheated

Bromburak

Altissimus wrote: »

Leaving aside the fact that in ESO, there is no disadvantage if another player assists you in a fight - you still get the same loot and xp - making "leechers" and "adding players" (sic) a benefit and not detrimenta

It has nothing todo with disadvantages. (But to make this clear, the adding it self is leeching cause they get loot while others have done 90% of the work)
However this is not the point!

The point is NO ONE asking for assistance ... One reason why MMO players usually don't add to fights. You are might not familiar with this, but for most of us its an act of politeness in MMOs.

And if you say "when we feel disturbed by those adding players , we should play single player games" you totally missed the point!

Granite

Dralzen wrote: »

talking about EQ. they would have not survived the Hell levels. every 5th and 10th level required a ton more xp to level. i guess you are all used to having levels given to you on a silver plater. how do you survive in real life where you have to do hard work for little gain or none at all.

How do you live then if you get litte or no rewards? o.O
You should start to appreciate things you get or your life will be probably pretty boring.

In reality harder you work more rewards you get. Or if you are working hard without getting rewards, you are just making fool of yourself.

killipsob14_ESO

"we don't need a typical toxic mmo community here that just whine after whine"

They don't fix the VET levels you will be dealing with no population and or pay to win. So sit in your smugness for now. No way this game will last for the vast percentage of the players with the boring drawn out Vet grind.

If you're not having fun that's fine just leave

I remember endgame in SWTOR and someone saying that also. GUESS WHAT.. We all did leave.

The_Tip

I dont get the complaining about the time table it takes to level and mob and boss difficulties. If you followed any of the media leading up to the release, or know anything about this game, you'd know Veteran Content is geared towards grouping, and that investing TIME was one of the main aspects of the game, campaigns that last 90 days to complete....If you don't wanna invest time, then you clearly chose the wrong game.

My only complaint is dungeons don't seem to give out much worthwhile loot at all, and I feel like repeating a group dugeon penalizes me on just the 2nd attempt through by not giving me virtually any loot at all not even the 1-2g per enemy.

felixgamingx1

By June I'll have had enough. Unsubbing is near.

Lucifer108

killipsob14_ESO wrote: »

"we don't need a typical toxic mmo community here that just whine after whine"

They don't fix the VET levels you will be dealing with no population and or pay to win. So sit in your smugness for now. No way this game will last for the vast percentage of the players with the boring drawn out Vet grind.

If you're not having fun that's fine just leave

I remember endgame in SWTOR and someone saying that also. GUESS WHAT.. We all did leave.

This. I personally completed the grind doing every quest in every zone except the V10 zone and then I did the quests in craglorn. There is absolutely no "carrot on a stick" in this game, might it be PVP , leveling or even trials. The rewardsjust are not worth the effort as much as they should and the fact that dropped items even in trials are BOE just makes everything worse. If the gameplay was actually fun , it would be a different story but that is not the case either due to lag and unresponsive combat.

Syzmicke

Just do like the rest do...

Location: Craglorn
Level: VR1,
You will need a group though.

3 bosses that spawn in very close areas.

Farm 1, travel to 2, kill 2, travel to 3 (shrine), tp to 4, kill 5. Repeat.

Map Here

22.000 xp at Vr1 every few minutes.
37.000 or so at vr7/8 every few minutes.