Joy_Division wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

They don;t know yet.

You actually think a AAA game producer like ZOS doesn't know what their plans are for a project they've sunk thousands of man hours and who knows how much money into is going to be? Let's try and be real here for a second, shall we?

Yes. And so do you.

There are about a dozen people who constantly flood these forums with complaints and rants about Vengeance. They'll upload screenshots trying to convince ZOS it's a dead server, they deride the players in vengeance as PvE casuals, they claim to speak for all PvPers, they'll claim it's a laggy mess, insist that it will be an empty server because the Vengeance audience is flighty and uninterested in PvP, etc., they have done all of this in the past 6 months in an attempt to demonstrate to ZOS that Vengeance is not worth supporting, so as to ensure that the current ESO campaigns are kept at the least, and ideally the resources allotted for Vengeance would instead go to making a performant GH.

You and others are doing this because there is a belief that ZOS can be convinced. Because ZOS future plans are not set in stone. That even if they have every intention of going with Vengeance, that their mind could be changed if either support for Vengeance declined among the ESO community or the performance was poor. In short, ZOS could alter tomorrow what they might have intended on doing today.

Or, ZOS isn't sure yet.

AAA studios, including ZOS, change their minds all the time due to unforeseen circumstances. Go west of Dragonsreach and you'll see Cloud Ruler Temple. That was going to be a PvE Trial that could only be accessed by an alliance who controlled certain objectives in Cyrodiil, in accordance to this AAA's original vision the PvP and PvE were to be interlinked. ZOS changed it. Just like the old idea of Imperial City having to be accessed via Cyrodiil. Changed. Just like ZOS's intentions to alter heavy/light attacks. Changed. Just like the old 4v4v4 BGs. Changed. All those old maps and assets just discarded. All of these things were, like Vengeance, projects and systems in which real development resources were allotted. Like an AAA studio, ZOS will adjust according to how mechanically feasible something like Vengeance is and, more importantly, how much their paying customers respond to it. Again, something the people who hate Vengeance know full well considering how forcefully they are venting their frustrations to ZOS.

If people paid attention to ZOS's last Livestream about Vengeance, it is obvious they're not sure how Vengeance will be implemented. They got a question specifically about whether or not the Vengeance model was going coming to Battlegrounds and Brain Wheeler specifically said that was under consideration, meaning *ZOS doesn't know yet*.

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Triple-A companies, or really any serious company investing years of resources into a project, don’t just “wing it” with no clear direction or end goal. That’s simply not how large-scale development works.

So it’s one of two things. Either what you’re saying is true and ZOS really has been stumbling along aimlessly for years with no concrete plan for Vengeance, in which case they don’t deserve whatever respect or patience the PvP playerbase still has left. Or, more realistically, you’re just talking out of your depth, because anyone who’s worked on a serious project in a professional environment knows that milestones, deliverables, and end goals are decided well in advance.

Trying to paint ZOS as if they’re still figuring it out as they go, after all this time, all these tests, and all the resources poured in, is either admitting total incompetence on their part or showing you’ve never actually been involved in real project development.

alakeyfox wrote: »

Agreed. Also "selling" items via loot boxes is just absurd. I'd buy so many things from the current rotation if it was actually possible. I am not paying hundreds of bucks to have a chance to get a few items that I'd like.

My thoughts exactly.

I personally pay my subscription and always have. I also bought large houses over the years that cost almost $80 aus.
$80 is close to the price of a whole new game..for 1 pixel house?

I buy crowns from the eso store when they are on special and I purchase every expansion, now it's a game pass.

Why would I throw out my crowns by gambling on a crown crate? I have bought them in the past and never got anything that made me want to buy more.

I love this game, it's the only game ive played for over 10 yrs with 3 breaks inbetween over the years must show my dedication to eso. I dont want to bash the game I'm being honest with my reply.

I will definitely say that making an entire trial-esque Public Dungeon that will be playable for one week is a strange choice indeed.

The idea of entire content pieces being permanently shut down is not exactly player-friendly in the first place, but especially in the light of 2025 being a very light year in terms of content (and a lot of the player resentment around the 2025 Season Pass deals with the higher price for the Pass as opposed to previous Chapters and the fact that there's less content included), the fact that a fair amount of the dev time went specifically to something that will only exist for a single week instead of something players could enjoy for a while seems... especially awkward.

I think it was a costly mistake and that it should be reverted. This is making the game something it isn't and it will make balancing even more complicated. people voting no only because it won't happen should be removed from the poll

Also, honest feedback here. Having content only available for one week and then its gone for good just seems like a waste. Imo its too short and should be longer. I can see 2 weeks or longer making sense. But one is too short, even with fomo in play its going to be missed.

Stamicka wrote: »

Yea ZOS put themselves in a really difficult position. For years and years they've been doing everything they can to get more new players and to keep the solo casuals happy. They keep the majority of the game extremely easy, water down the combat, focus mostly on zone releases, and put a lot of emphasis on events.

This, I think, is a major factor that a lot of people want to ignore.

Sure, we all know about the standard “but but but SteamCharts aren’t everything!” argument regarding the population, but we can definitely see the trend there of a spike after a release and then a slow decline until the next thing releases. ESO very much is seasonal and not constant. Heck, even many of ESO’s StreamTeam is either no longer creating content (at least for ESO - a lot of them are playing GW2 right now) or the content they do create is mostly along the lines of “ESO is cooked!!!1!!11!”

That does mean that if ESO wants to survive, it needs more. More zones. More quests. More events. More things that’ll just end up burning out the population until they get fed up and leave.
And we already see that for all of the forum arguments of “just give us a patch with only bugfixes and quality-of-life stuff instead of new things!” that just doesn’t really work. They’ve done that twice already, and the fact that nobody remembers the Q3 patch for the two previous years was just that shows how important those patches are.

And as you said, the removal of individual achievements and the complete homogenization of character builds due to things like hybridization and Subclassing are making things a lot less interesting for vet players. Like for example, I have finished every 4-man achievement in the game, so what should I do with my dungeon group until we get more? And a lot of vets are saying similar things. So once we get what we need, now what? Are we expected to just leave the game until the next patch? Seriously, even the daily login rewards have been giant nothing burgers the past two months.

ZOS is between a rock and a hard place right now. The balance is a disaster and is actively pushing vets away, and instead of addressing it, the Combat Team is hard-focusing their “PvP for PvErs” mode and the devs are hoping that this FOMO event will get enough casual players to grind dailies and carry the game until New Life.

I really hope ZOS tries to get vets back, but a lot of the comments that many of the devs have made really make it feel like ESO is less of “an MMO that allows you to play solo content” and more of “a solo experience that you can share with friends if you choose, assuming you don’t mind people shining lasers in your face in your medieval-ish fantasy world.”

And the worst part: it’s not like there has to be a conflict. There are things they could add that multiple groups of players could enjoy, like Classes: RPers can make a new character, casuals get to play with mixing and matching new skills, vets get more to theorycraft with, PvPers get new enemy tactics to fight against, and the like.

aetherix8 wrote: »

1. What if PvEers figured they had better things to do than deal with op ballgroups, broken builds, lag, etc?

2. Are PvEers wrong to ask for a PvP mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy?

3. Since when do PvPers work for ZOS?

4. PvPers have given exactly nothing to PvEers

5. Frankly, I couldn't care less whether PvPers keep the current version or not, as it doesn't exist for me anyways. In general, I suspect that PvEers don't really care either, they have other problems, like hats and economy. PvPers can try and dictate whatever they want to PvEers, it doesn't change that Cyro populations are shrinking.

1. Don't play
2. No. They aren't wrong. But "stand a chance" alludes to the fact that you either have no skill, or you want things handed to you in some easy mode to help you win. Learn to play.
3. Since ZOS said PvPers work for them on this forum. But that isn't what I was referencing and you know it. See the next comment.
4. Yes PvPers have. We've given tons of advice, builds and techniques to PvErs. The easiest to verify are the the tons of posts before every MYM. There's also a ton of requests from PvErs on how to survive in IC, or collect items in IC without PvPing. PvPers help you with this and show a ton of grace when they could say - Learn to Play.
5. This rings untrue; however, here we are answering questions for someone with an agenda. You can't PvP, you want an ez mode to help you, you'd prefer to PvP on some imaginary even playing field rather than develop skill. Every player in the current environment is under the same ruleset as every other player, so what's your problem? How can we help you get better?

PvPers aren't asking ZOS for new abilities or skills. They want a more performant environment and one without heal, buff, and shield stacking. They've asked repeatedly for a removal or detuning of certain skills and armor sets and named them. They've asked ZOS for the results of tests and for follow through on past promises to provide information. Now they've become paid testers for ZOS while the devs fall back to ignoring requests for updated information regarding the direction of the current tests.

I hope the Writhing Wall event changes my life.