I'm glad vengence is back. I don't do GH anymore because I am weary of the giant queues, getting kicked when the ball groupd show up, getting desynched by the new busted each update and the attitude of many of the people in it. I look forward to a relatively more playable option I can enjoy without stupid queues

just begging for pitchforks.

Begging for Pitchforks is my new Rage Against the Machine cover band.

While I think the TP to gold conversion is the best short term solution, and thank you for that, I think all of Code's post on page Two is excellent. There is a ton of confusion around Tome Points, re-rolling, and the whole system. I see it in guild chat, in zone chat, and on discord.

Also, there are a significant number of people who play ESO who have never encountered a battle pass in a different game. That's neither good nor bad, but I think there's a fair bit of assumption about what players will Just Understand, and that is a big source of a lot of the confusion. Not all of it, but some.
Please run the written articles, plus the planned changes, past someone who has not used a battle pass before.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

l
They offered double ap for vengeance only alongside greyhost and people still flocked to greyhost... No amount of meaningless titles or the like would get people to move over, and offering rewards like cosmetics and developing the campaign people right now dont wanna play would only ostracize and push more returning players out yet again.

Trying to force customers to like something vs improving upon what they already like is the worst business strategy possible.

What forum goers don't understand overall, because these players don't typically go to the forums, is that most pvpers come from other games like WoW where the actual gameplay and combat is more important to them than anything else. The game mode that gives them the most build diversity and complexity will always win out over what is simple and available to everyone to access out the jump.
...
And a bigger point on that is, if the social aspect was the most important thing, more pvpers would be doing PVE, as PvE is a far bigger social pool than PVP ever could be.

1. So according to you, AP and rewards are not the main motivator for the majority of pvp players. I agree. People who hate pvp will never be enticed no matter how much cosmetics and dyes and AP are offered.
2. ZOS is not forcing customers into Vengeance. They offer incentives to play vengeance. When they're tired of supporting a service, they can disconnect it. Just like how no one forces you to use any kind of software if a dev gets tired of maintaining it. As a customer, you can play or not play. Pretty simple.
3. "Most PvPers come from other games like WoW where actual gameplay and combat is more important than anything else"? Very bold statement. I highly doubt this is the case, but okay. Gameplay and combat mechanics are different from build diversity/gear complexity.
4. "If the social aspect was the most important thing, more PvPers would be doing PvE." These don't logically connect.

Let's just take a look at the minute-to-minute gameplay of Greyhost:

"This. Logged in last night during prime time, 60+ queue, 3 bars across all alliances and the map was so *** dead. No one doing a single thing. Maybe a resource flagged here and there but it felt like people would log in and just go afk on purpose. I stuck around for a hour and dipped, lol"

"When I logged on to PCNA in grayhost on AD, I’d just sit there and talk to people in zone chat. No reason to actually try anything when a Zerg attempts to take a keep and you and 3 other people show up to try to defend."

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/s/Tl5LHIkd1h

Greyhost is failing to provide meaningful combat for the average player. So why do people still queue in? Socializing and afking is what the majority of players do in Greyhost. This is not a bad thing. Human beings are social creatures, you can't force them to unsocialize in a multiplayer game, and realistically speaking, people need breaks and cannot be battling 24/7. It makes more sense for ZOS to lean into the socialization aspect and make grouping and coordination easier and more meaningful, and implement underdog bonuses to address population imbalances and entice participation. They cannot reach a critical population in Greyhost anymore, so they have to switch to Vengeance.

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Tallon_IV wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I made over 4 million gold off this event and i haven't even listed my last batch of motifs yet.

Well I made about 30 mil but...

If you're trying to demonstrate how awful the rewards are, you're going about it in a novel way.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Vengeance takes away the ability to create our own builds.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

There are 3 digits of players in queue

GH is a one build meta, with a billion options to handicap yourself by using worse gear.

Vengeance builds are the skills on your bar and the buttons you press. No gear to carry you.

3 digits of players during NA prime time in a billion dollar game is pathetic.

I dunno, this is fun. Massive meta shakeups every so often can be bad, it has been bad previously, but improvements to all the classes + SO many changes at once gives me the impression that it’ll be much harder to quickly settle on one build to rule them all than it has been when the changes were adding/nerfing a new class or set.

Jestir wrote: »

I understand the meta has been stale for too long

And the meta is... Arcanist, right? So, what will actually change? Fate Realigned + Unbound Potential will enable "always 3 crux" for pure Arcs pushing them closer to meta, and subclassed Arcs will be only a bit weaker. Friendship ended with ARC, now ARC is my best friend.