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Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
During its last appearance on PCNA, Vengeance suffered the same issue that plagued and ultimately defeated no proc PVP: As soon as the populations reach a certain level of imbalance, it becomes impossible to play against massive numbers as an underdog.
Kartalin
6
Re: Inventory is Excessive Micro-Management
agelonestar wrote: »The inventory issue is a key reason people quit the game. It literally drives people away.
I know this from experience. Ive had friends get bored of the game from it. It’s mentally taxing for new players.
I’m not sure why anybody above is advocating against solutions.
Also, nobody is expecting a full craft bag for free. But having a 25 or 50 max stack size bag would alleviate a lot of pressure from all the items which we have less than 25.
I use ESO+. I just want my friends to stop getting chased away from the game because of this. It’s a really bad reason to lose so many players.
Re: Inventory is Excessive Micro-Management
One of the reasons I stopped playing the game.
A sub is fine if you play the game regularly and a fair amount, years ago I used to sub to RIft, LOTRO, etc, but I mostly played ESO sporadically and even when playing it, there would be times I would barely touch it for 3 or 4 weeks. A sub simply does not fit the way I played ESO.
Other games give more flexible options like a limited crafting item inventory that you can then upgrade the capacity in their equivalent of the Crown Store.
I presume they make more money out of people who will pay the sub for the crafting inventory, than people like me who won't, but would buy some inventory upgrades (plus the chapters, DLC, crowns for character slots, etc I used to spend money on when I played).
A sub is fine if you play the game regularly and a fair amount, years ago I used to sub to RIft, LOTRO, etc, but I mostly played ESO sporadically and even when playing it, there would be times I would barely touch it for 3 or 4 weeks. A sub simply does not fit the way I played ESO.
Other games give more flexible options like a limited crafting item inventory that you can then upgrade the capacity in their equivalent of the Crown Store.
I presume they make more money out of people who will pay the sub for the crafting inventory, than people like me who won't, but would buy some inventory upgrades (plus the chapters, DLC, crowns for character slots, etc I used to spend money on when I played).
Sylosi
5
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Well, i am going to say the sweaties that love to chase me in GH with their carry builds use nightblades in Veng. So you have a point. It is a tad stronger right now. But it is definitely not 100%. You play against Templars, Wardens, there are a lot of Magsorcs. There are actually 4 - 5 different classes involving at any fight. And most importantly NB is deadly but they are not also fast + tanky. That is what most matters. You can run away from them easily if you build for it, or you can attack and kill them. There are tradeoffs. No more carry builds, maybe not balanced, maybe stronger but not complete carry builds. Yes, it is not balanced still, but much much better than what is happening in GH rn.And vengeance is 100% nightblades so what is your point?
In Vengeance right now you can fight against any class and if you die it will still be on you. The power gap is not that much between the builds. If someone kills you, they are probably better at weaving/rotation, they are not carried by their builds. In GH good luck in fights if you are not going to play one certain playstyle.
And what i love most about Vengeance is that the skills are distinct now. You dont fire 5 abilities at once. Streak has cooldown. Overload is its own skill, fires separately. Other abilities similarly. Fights are clearer. No GH chaos anymore with noone knowing what is happening on the field. And for that reason there were tremendous amount of new players in Cyrodiil tonight that were low level but still can understand and enjoy fights going on. That is why Vengeance will be successful, that is if they keep it that simple in the future. It doesnt need to be a button or mouse mesh simulator for it to contain skillful gameplay.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Vengeance Campaign
General feedback:
If Vengeance is anywhere as near as popular as you hope it will be there will be queues, and Golden Vendor will be difficult to get to; consider moving Golden Vendor out to PVP merchants with the battlegrounds guys.
People are going to want unlocked faction option. The Grey Host crew definitely don't want unlocked faction so there needs to be another option. Is that Vengeance? I dunno.
Please replicate that channeled siege repair from Vengeance onto Grey Host. Its a good QoL improvement.
Please actually spend some time improving performance on Grey Host. You seem committed to keeping it around. You need to give it some love. The performance is poor, the scoring mechanisms are broken / unbalanced, the map is unbalanced, yet the character build and PvPvE mechanisms drive a lot of player retention. I know software is super hard and risky to change, so just throw more hardware at it and dedicate to Grey Host to get some more headroom on calculations.
If Vengeance is anywhere as near as popular as you hope it will be there will be queues, and Golden Vendor will be difficult to get to; consider moving Golden Vendor out to PVP merchants with the battlegrounds guys.
People are going to want unlocked faction option. The Grey Host crew definitely don't want unlocked faction so there needs to be another option. Is that Vengeance? I dunno.
Please replicate that channeled siege repair from Vengeance onto Grey Host. Its a good QoL improvement.
Please actually spend some time improving performance on Grey Host. You seem committed to keeping it around. You need to give it some love. The performance is poor, the scoring mechanisms are broken / unbalanced, the map is unbalanced, yet the character build and PvPvE mechanisms drive a lot of player retention. I know software is super hard and risky to change, so just throw more hardware at it and dedicate to Grey Host to get some more headroom on calculations.
decairn
6
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 1 Summary
Erickson9610 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Ketryellowynne wrote: »
Let’s please address the elephant in the room. Healers. Supports, yes, but then you didn’t need to say tanks as well. Keep healers relevant.
For class passives specifically make something for every class that is determined by overheal (not heal). Reading the passives as they have existed to this point makes me terrified that you will end up writing healers as a role out of optimized end game entirely. We already see it in dungeons and arenas, running 3 DPS and a tank because “why would we run a healer if DDs can self-sustain and then we get more damage”? We already see it in current end game optimization where it’s common to run 1 heal, 1 tank.
My concern is that as DDs become more self sufficient and less necessity is placed on healing as a concept, end game groups will eliminate healers entirely because everything they provide can be provided equally as well by a support DD with 1 or 2 heals if necessary.
Example: Major Courage. As a very important buff, this has probably been the single most important thing for keeping healers relevant in the game since the best source (SPC) procs on overheal for 12 party members, no cooldown, potential 100% uptime with someone who plays it well enough. Adding this buff to a single skill on a werewolf is an enormous slap in the face. Where there aren’t specific heal checks, an optimized team can run a werewolf for Major courage instead of a healer at all. While this hasn’t been an issue previously (people choosing banners or Zenas, or soul burst or Yolna for minor courage instead of a werewolf in group), that was because it would be a net loss of damage to run a werewolf. In this case, with the emotional support doggo replacing the healer, it ends up a net increase rather than loss, assuming other buffs can still be sourced elsewhere.
Currently, the only buff that can only be sourced through healing is minor toughness. With Major courage more easily sourceable outside of healing, there becomes very few reasons to run a designated healer as opposed to only running support DDs in much optimized 12 man content.
KEEP HEALERS RELEVANT.
The class passives are an excellent opportunity to do this, but only if you model them with this in mind rather than just your damage or even just supports as a whole. Make a reason for a healer to be there instead of removing the existing ones.
(Edited for autocorrect sabotaging spelling)
You could probably solve this by allowing the WW Major Courage to only apply to other WWs.
So that it is a functional SPC replacement for all-WW groups, who otherwise have no means to source the buff group-wide, but it does not obviate the actual healer in more traditional groups.
Best of both worlds.
We want Werewolves to be useful in non-WW groups, too. Werewolves don't always play in WW-only groups, and we would love to be welcomed in regular groups for high end PvE/PvP.
Sure, but not at the cost of displacing regular healers.
Hand-waiving the issue with, "Yeah, find something else for healers to do... in the future... yeah..." is not a viable proposal. WW changes are on the table now. The problem should be solved now. Whereas there is zero timetable or even any reason to assume that such a change to regular healers would ever be forthcoming.
It is one thing for WWs to be basically "Oakensoul, the ultimate" with all of these easily sourced comparatively rare buffs for themselves and other WWs. But that should not extend into the rest of the game or turn over the tea table on roles that have existed for a decade.
Like someone else said, make a buff that is actually unique to WWs and let a WW DD bring that to a raid. This Major Courage change is the WW version of DKs snatching away Major Berserk from Sorcerers. It's just robbing one role to pay-off another role in a very zero-sum fashion.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
Also as stated multiple times... I do think sorcerer werewolf is broken, but you wouldn't want them to blanket nerf every werewolf ability because one specific combination of things is broken
One has to be specific about what is broken so that it can be balanced accordingly, rather than providing ambiguous misleading statements that don't result in a more balanced, fun game in the end.
You are correct with this statement. I hope those calling for nerfs will be more specific about what exactly they think problem is.
Re: Nevermind
For those asking removal of Class Masteries in favor of one passive for weapon damage being fixed:
Passives aren't just a chunk of weapon damage. There's defensive stats, there's debuffs, there's DOTs, and just unique interactions with your class that makes a little bit of flavor and difference.
Currently on the PTS I'm using Serpent's Disdain and the Glacial Maw Warden passive, with a frost enchant on my weapon, to apply 18 seconds of Major Brittle on enemies through light attacks. This isn't just raw damage to me, it's a useful team benefit that I can provide in werewolf form. Yes, normal wardens can do the same or even better, but that's not the point. It's a unique, fun and useful debuff that helps all my team, not just me.
Some free weapon damage ain't gonna replace that utility.
Werewolf isn't just about pumping out damage. We still want to be useful to our werewolf and non-werewolf friends. Plus there's tanking werewolves too, which different class masteries could benefit as well in different ways.
This is why I'm upset. The sheer lack of understanding and, worse, the ignorance from people in this very thread who mock and treat us like we're stupid because we want our base class to matter even just a little bit, and think that some free damage will magically make it okay.
When the PvP nerf demands stop being 'use the 'against players' or 'against monsters' modifier and becomes about taking away things across the board, then yes, I have all the reason to condemn PvPers for this demand for a playstyle they don't care about, and even act SUPERIOR about than those who actually play it.
Passives aren't just a chunk of weapon damage. There's defensive stats, there's debuffs, there's DOTs, and just unique interactions with your class that makes a little bit of flavor and difference.
Currently on the PTS I'm using Serpent's Disdain and the Glacial Maw Warden passive, with a frost enchant on my weapon, to apply 18 seconds of Major Brittle on enemies through light attacks. This isn't just raw damage to me, it's a useful team benefit that I can provide in werewolf form. Yes, normal wardens can do the same or even better, but that's not the point. It's a unique, fun and useful debuff that helps all my team, not just me.
Some free weapon damage ain't gonna replace that utility.
Werewolf isn't just about pumping out damage. We still want to be useful to our werewolf and non-werewolf friends. Plus there's tanking werewolves too, which different class masteries could benefit as well in different ways.
This is why I'm upset. The sheer lack of understanding and, worse, the ignorance from people in this very thread who mock and treat us like we're stupid because we want our base class to matter even just a little bit, and think that some free damage will magically make it okay.
When the PvP nerf demands stop being 'use the 'against players' or 'against monsters' modifier and becomes about taking away things across the board, then yes, I have all the reason to condemn PvPers for this demand for a playstyle they don't care about, and even act SUPERIOR about than those who actually play it.
coop500
5
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
They have said (very clearly, and several times) that it is not possible to have both large population caps and decent performance in Cyrodiil owing to the drastically higher number of events the server has to process in a single thread (every hit of damage, every splash of healing, every movement etc.)
The PVP community has for a long time complained about decreasing population caps.
So the choices are either something that works a lot more like Vengeance and can support high population caps, or the status quo where each campaign has a small population cap and the popular one has a long queue.
I wonder if there is another option where each campaign is actually multi-instance, with population balancing. If you queue with a group you get to go in the same campaign otherwise you go in a random instance. All the scoring gets aggregated so whatever your instance of the campaign looks like you're still contributing to the overall month-end score. It would mean the system could keep legacy PVP behaviour and eliminate queueing for GH, but it would mean that the score didn't necessarily represent the battlefield and might be challenging for deciding how Emperorship should work, and it would mean just joining campaign and lfging in your PVP guild wouldn't be the same experience. But nobody else has suggested it to my knowledge, so I thought I would.
Bear in mind that there are also a ton of other persistent gripes that "stick with the current system" doesn't address - ball groups, troll tanks, edge builds with high damage, infinite resources and high armour at the same time.... Vengeance does effectively neuter them but the tests so far have probably been too far the other way in terms of neutering build diversity. And finally the issue of sets remains problematic for all game modes - there are far, far too many completely useless sets in the game, that see literally zero use in any form of gameplay except for by noobs that don't have a clue and are probably wearing completely mismatched gear in any case. Each new zone or dungeon adds to the problem.
Honestly, now that I have really looked into what vengeance does, this is EXACTLY what I have been saying needs to be done in ESO for YEARS now. Either this, or have specific sets you can use in pvp, and that is it. This will quite literally get me back into pvp, because I will not have to spend 4958305843589480593890 years grinding for gear again after being away for a year or 2. Now it comes down to skill, period. No more crutches.
Game on I say.
Jammy420
8
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Four_Fingers wrote: »When Vengeance finally goes live and the seasoned PvP players that have been sitting it out return, I wonder how long it will be till posts show up whining that they are still getting killed.
Did this actually happen? Lol. I'm genuinely asking because I like to play both GH and the Vengeance test but the only ones that were whining were the GH sweats that didn't have their crutches available in Vengeance, lol
