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Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
ForeverJenn wrote: »Yeah. It's just 3k group dps means there's 4 people doing 600dps. Maybe afkers on some auto follow.
Don't remember you saying 3k group dps. I've never seen that ever. I've had groups in which I was doing 80% of the dps as healer, but in any dungeon where that's possible to clear with, you don't need to do much healing and don't even need to keep anyone other than yourself alive.
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
ForeverJenn wrote: »There are a lot of players who try to get better but get booted from groups because their dps is low or because they failed a mechanic.
You can blame inexperience on the community as much as the player. If I would have been in the OPs group and he offered me advice I'd take it gladly. Unfortunately most groups don't do that. They either just disband or begin to tell you how much of their air you have wasted.
The sad truth in ESO.
I DID ask. No one responds
The issue is your question is not easy to answer as the reasons are many and never the same each time it happens.
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
There are a lot of players who try to get better but get booted from groups because their dps is low or because they failed a mechanic.
You can blame inexperience on the community as much as the player. If I would have been in the OPs group and he offered me advice I'd take it gladly. Unfortunately most groups don't do that. They either just disband or begin to tell you how much of their air you have wasted.
The sad truth in ESO.
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
ForeverJenn wrote: »DeathStalker_X wrote: »I'm a CP913 tank, using Thunderbug Carapace and gold bow - I do an average of 31k+ and have gone as high as 92k+ (that I've noticed, depending on how many times they get hit by the TC). I've done a lot of the Group Dungeons solo CoH I) being one of them, but there are some I just get slaughtered in - especially when there is more than one boss. Most of the time I can handle any single boss.
How does that rate for a tank? (and yes, I do weave between Consuming Trap IV, Endless Hail 4, Solar Barrage IV, and Acid Spray IV - I have timers on them so I know when to cycle. I use Ballista IV as my Ultimate. That 31K+ is WITHOUT Solar Barrage IV.
Thanks!
No one is talking about fake tanks, bro, lol.
That what would you suggest for a tank? And what damage would you be expecting? And thanks for the insult instead of any constructive criticism. The forum doesn't need members like you. Clearly you contribute nothing helpful.
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
ForeverJenn wrote: »Well, if we're to the point where expecting more than 3k dps from CP 500-700 dps roles is "expecting vet level performance", then I'm not going to find the answer I'm looking for. I was under the impression DLC vet needed 50-60k. But what do I know? I've only completed them all.
This is the kind of statement that deters players from doing dungeons or trials, and learning to perform better. Players need to actually get into the setting to see where their weaknesses are, and to learn the particular mechanics. Practice makes perfect, but how does someone get comfortable getting the practice they need if they know they will be judged and looked down upon by players with a superior attitude?
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
ForeverJenn wrote: »@Linaleah I'm no good at dps either. 18k is about what I can do. I just can't understand rotation much. But still, that's a far cry from the 3k my original post is referring to. I'm a pretty good healer, tho and doing ok as a tank. You might enjoy group content more in one of those roles. Of course, play how you wanna play. But it's just a suggestion that worked for me.
That is not a solution. People should be able to play whatever role they enjoy.
The solution is to stop expecting vet level performance in regular dungeons.
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.
your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.
and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.
zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.
Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.
So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.
After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)
Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.
Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds
When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.
Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.
During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)
Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.
This was written inspired by my own journey.
I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?
each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.
what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
and to add, I'm going to bring up the game that shall not be named, but as its one of two MMO's that i'm currently actively playing - I kinda have to.
here is what I have to do to get acceptable dps in WoW. look up rotation. set up my bar so that I can follow that rotation. get some baseline gear, generally from running some dungeons as well as doing world quests - most of them are soloable, and with baseline starter gear you get from early lvl 50 activities - all but a handful are.
is my dps going to be anywhere near the top? no. for that a lot of gear optimization along with tightening of rotation/knowledge of mechanics is required. but... its STILL going to be acceptable for a very good chunk of end game content.
in ESO.. you are practicaly required to practice and practice a LOT and got help you if your innate skill ceiling is low, there is only so far the practice will get you because this game has NO give.
this is why this feels like 2 different games sometimes. overworld is balanced so that even people with low skill ceiling can get through it, but that makes it far too easy for end game folks. and end game is all but impossible for majority of the population, because its balanced for people who are willing to invest more time into practicing their rotations among other things, then most people are willing to spend on any one video game to just play it, let alone "git gud" at it.
here is what I have to do to get acceptable dps in WoW. look up rotation. set up my bar so that I can follow that rotation. get some baseline gear, generally from running some dungeons as well as doing world quests - most of them are soloable, and with baseline starter gear you get from early lvl 50 activities - all but a handful are.
is my dps going to be anywhere near the top? no. for that a lot of gear optimization along with tightening of rotation/knowledge of mechanics is required. but... its STILL going to be acceptable for a very good chunk of end game content.
in ESO.. you are practicaly required to practice and practice a LOT and got help you if your innate skill ceiling is low, there is only so far the practice will get you because this game has NO give.
this is why this feels like 2 different games sometimes. overworld is balanced so that even people with low skill ceiling can get through it, but that makes it far too easy for end game folks. and end game is all but impossible for majority of the population, because its balanced for people who are willing to invest more time into practicing their rotations among other things, then most people are willing to spend on any one video game to just play it, let alone "git gud" at it.
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
SilverBride wrote: »I only read part of this thread, but what I did read is the reason I don't do dungeons, even though I'd like to. I feel like I have 2 options: do good dps or have fun. I see no way I can do both.
The reason for this is that I find it way too stressful to do all the things required to "get gud". Farming for multiple sets, the right glyphs, the right food, using skills I don't find fun, learning rotations, and dealing with elitist attitudes. These things suck all the fun out of the game for me, and I play to have fun.
The only things you actually need to do out of all the.things you mentioned is to learn rotations, and maybe use skills you don't find fun (this one is under question mark, since I don't know what skills you find fun)
I do try to be a decent player. I look up builds, but some I follow more closely than others. I think the reason I veer so much from their suggestions is because the rotation explanation seems too complicated. When I read things like light attack weaving, etc., it's like a foreign language to me.
Then I've read that you need multiple sets, and a monster set, and you need to switch them out depending on the group you are with or the fight. I want dungeons to be part of my game, not to take up all my playtime preparing for them.
Re: How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?
Get a metronome app (either onto your pc or your mobile, does not matter where, it's the sound only what you need) set it to 57-58 BPM (beat per minute, it's slightly below the the 1 sec cooldown interval which would be 60 BPM), and then just simply press light attack and skill when you hear the tick. (tick: la skill, tick: la skill, tick: la skill, ...)
Start with one simple spamable skill like force pulse, and just practice with that to get the rhythm. When you get the hang of it then add a dot like elemental blockade and practice with two skill (tick: la blockade, 8x tick: la forcepulse, tick: la blockade, 8x tick: forcepulse ...) Then move blockade to backbar and practice barswap too, just with these two skill, nothing more (tick: la blockade swap, 7x tick: la forcepulse, 1x tick: la forcepulse swap, tick: la blockade swap, ...) Then keep adding skills on back and frontbar one by one to build up your rotation, just practice each step until you feel comfortable with the number of skills you're using before adding another one.
Wow. That sounds.... horrible. Why would I ever want to play a game like that / play a game that requires that? There's nothing remotely fun or interesting or desirable about that kind of thing. Way to turn "playing a game" into a phenomenally tedious job.*
(which makes it good that I have no interest in "high level play" , if that is the kind of thing needed to succeed there.)
* and yes, I know - different people enjoy and value different things. I guess there must be some people out there who are in to that. Or have enough interest in "topping leaderboards"/etc to make the mind-numbing tediousness of perfecting game skills in that way, to be endurable.
