Elvenheart wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

lostineternity wrote: »

I hold a master degree in applied mathematics. My main specialization is mathematical statistics, with a particular focus on social mathematical statistics (everything related to societal trends, opinion polls, elections, etc.

I also hold an MS in the social sciences, with a particular focus on data analysis. The level of statistical illiteracy in these discussions is striking. Personal anecdotes and individual experiences may feel meaningful, but they do not constitute evidence and carry little weight in population-level analysis.

One contributing factor to population decline is the forum environment itself. Long-standing trolls—some of whom have posted thousands of borderline rage-bait messages over the years—appear to be effectively insulated from consequences, potentially due to inconsistent or legacy moderation practices. At the same time, many ordinary in-game players report being automatically banned through AI-driven moderation systems.

These trolls are widely disliked by the player base, yet their posts—often driven by emotion rather than evidence—tend to align with pro-ZOS narratives. As a result, dissenting voices are gradually removed or disengage out of frustration, leaving a shrinking, unrepresentative group that persists until the community itself is effectively shut down.

I don't think ZOS realizes that this favoritism has resulted in people leaving ESO forever. When a member of ZOS makes up a reason to take action against a player, at least sometimes that player just leaves and never returns. That's why this situation being allowed to continue unabated seems so strange to me.

Although posts like this present one way to look at what is being described, what I see is something completely different. I see a number of people who say and do things against the TOS and get banned, rightly so, and rather than accept responsibility for their own actions have to come up with some weird conspiracy theory that ZOS likes some forum posters more than others and protects them, and that somehow whatever the person getting banned said or did is somebody else’s fault instead of their own. Not a single player on this forum can control what I post or don’t post, so it boggles my mind that some people think something they post against the TOS is someone else’s fault.

Anyone who breaks the TOS should expect to get banned and I think everyone knows that.

The reason people are frustrated at this is because it's starting to feel like the application of the rules isn't being consistently applied across users - people have talked about the over-moderation of the forums for years, but everyone who's been on the forum for more than say a month, knows the same 2-3 accounts on the forum who are very clearly baiting other users, or downright trolling and being toxic, but those 2-3 accounts have been doing the same thing for years because apparently they have free reign to do so.

For apparently no real reason either, it is completely unexplainable other than they don't get banned because they tend to be heavily on the pro-ZOS side, because anyone who would be even slightly critical of the game, posting the same kinds of things as regularly as they do, would have been dealt with a long time ago.

Well, again, this just might be a different way of seeing things, but what some people may perceive as baiting and trolling others may see as just someone offering a counterpoint.

These forums come across so negative sometimes, and what I see is that many times if anyone dares to try to say anything positive in a topic that runs counter to the idea being discussed in the topic they are jumped on and what they say is belittled by some and ridiculed by others. The ones trying to blame two or three posters for people choosing to quit ESO should wonder what effect all the negativity readers are exposed to on the forums is having on player retention rather than worrying about the posts of two or three players.

Just because a player has an experience in the game that runs counter to the idea being discussed and they want to share that experience to try and balance out the negativity with a little bit of positivity does not mean they are baiting or trolling. And if anyone takes what someone says as “bait” and responds to these posts in a way that is against TOS and they get actioned against it does not mean that what they said or did was the other person’s fault - in the end, posters are 100% in control of and responsible for what they post and how they post it.

Do you believe people should be banned from the forum for stating that they will never play vengeance?

Of course not! That’s like me saying I don’t like Battlegrounds and won’t play them unless 3x3x3 comes back.

If anyone is claiming they’ve been banned because they say they won’t play Vengeance, I would want to know the entire story (but that can’t be discussed here on the forums due to TOS). There are two sides to every story and without knowing both sides, I would hesitate to jump to any conclusions.

According to ZOS the quoted statement is considered a protest or petition.....no need to ask me how I know this. It should be obvious. And don't bother with trying to make some sort of argument that context matters. The quoted statement is all it took.

I think one of the biggest things driving players away is the lack of new stuff to do. I'm a bit worried that this trend will continue in 2026. New stuff to do is the bread and butter of any live service game.

I trained AIs to be careful about toxic manipulations, gaslighting, trolling, moving goalposts, creating strawmen, ad hominem attacks, tag teaming, derailing etc. I also trained them loads of threads from this forum.

As a result they all identified the exact same few usernames linked to these behavioral patterns in debates. Additionally the Al even predicted the arguments of two users hours before they actually posted them. Which was really impressive to me.

Very interesting stuff.
Teached me lot about human patterns.

Hi, it's me.

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes yes. I want this more than anything.

Here's the deal: an Artificer would be lore appropriate, and more so than something like Arcanist or Warden or even Templar (which have really no pre-ESO lore in them).

First, absolutely not should the mystery of the Dwemer be solved. But you don't need to solve the mystery to play with it. Look at Arcanist, for example. It's possible to roleplay an Arcanist who is anything from a High Priest of Mora all the way down to someone who just found one of the Black Books. It does not require a "Thou Must Have This Level Of Deference To Hermy" clause. Even characters like Orpheon, who is one of the most powerful Arcanists in the game, has basically no tie to Hermaeus at all beyond his abilities. Besides, the existence of the Arcanist only expanded the lore of Hermaeus Mora, but did not permanently make it unable to add anything more to.
(Incidentally, the "What is an Arcanist" lorebook they included with Necrom actually made the lore for all other classes more codified, considering the following from Gabrielle: showing that the reason ESO doesn't work on a "spell schools" system like other games is that said spell schools don't exist yet.)

Second, let's address the "we don't have any examples of normal people building and using automata or other Dwemer technology themselves!" thing.

• Neramo in Stros m'Kai, who builds a Dwarven Spider named Clanker as a pet and eventually upgrades it to a Centurion by the time you make it to Sentinel. He also is involved in tuning the resonator in Greystone Quarry in Wrothgar, has his animunculi control rod as a MacGuffin in Nchuleftingth in Vvardenfell which is said to give control to the user over any constructs, and uses it again in the Scraps delve in Greymoor.
• Neramo's brother Rulorn in Stros also makes a sphere centurion from parts, but it doesn't go as well as his brother's.
• Vimy LaCroix, Neramo's associate in Nchuleftingth also is shown to be able to deactivate Dwemer traps.
• The enemy of the Nchuleftingth quest, Artisan Lenarmen, is also shown to be able to control automata and wears Dwemer armor.
• Kireth and Raynor Vanos have been shown to have some knowledge of the Dwemer as well. Her notes are more about the construction and metalwork and his focus on the soul gems they use. They also use a control rod in Bthanual in Deshaan, receive a trove of information on the Dwemer in Mzulft in Eastmarch (either their locations or an explanation of how the Dwemer used Soul Gems to power their constructs), collect information and a power core from the constructs in Zthenganaz in Wrothgar which he uses to make a Sphere Centurion.
• Malsia, a minor NPC in the Rift who uses Dwemer artifacts to explore the outer realms. It doesn't exactly go as planned for her.
• Revus Demnevanni, who can activate and adjust the Dwemer Tonal Resonator in the Gnisis Egg Mine and knows how tonal magic can influence others.
• Tharayya, who knows how to contain her ex-husband's soul in a Dwemer Pneumeria Chamber in Malatar and also can program a skeevaton to collect soul gems and use that to power a Dwarven Cannon in Frostvault.

Of course, Divayth Fyr shows that he knows everything about everything, but we'll not count him as "normal people." Also Telenger the Artificer is an Artificer, but we never see him playing with Dwemer artifacts specifcially.

But wait, you want pre-ESO people who also dabble in Dwemer technology? Bet.

• Erasmo in Redguard, who was sent to fix Dwemer devices and also uses a Dwemer wheelchair to get around
• Hasphat Antabolis in Morrowind, who is a scholar of the Dwemer despite being a member of the Fighters Guild. You retrieve the Dwemer Puzzle Box for him which he can decrypt into a key, and is a person who can help with the Mystery of the Dwarves quest for Trebonius.
• Edwinna Elbert, another scholar of the Dwemer who has you do several quests for her to collect Dwemer artifacts for her research. She is very close to being able to make her own Centurion.
• Aengoth the Jeweler in Ald'ruhn gives a Thieves Guild quest to collect Dwemer Scrap Metal to build constructs for protection. After the quest, two tame Spiders are present, implying that they were built using the Scrap Metal you found.
• Llunela Hleran, the Telvanni sorceress who helps build your Stronghold. She envisions your stronghold protected by Dwemer guardians and does so once you bring her an instruction manual.
• The Nerevarine, the player character, can also be an Artificer by obtaining the book Secrets of Dwemer Animunculi from Galom Daeus, which gives you the Summon Centurion Sphere spell, allowing you to build and use your own constructs.
• Bothiel from Oblivion, a mage who can rebuild and run the Imperial Orrery, which is of Dwemer make.
• Calcelmo from Skyrim, court mage of Markarth and a scholar of the Dwemer who studies Dwemer artifacts and has an entire Dwemer museum.
• Aicantar, his nephew, who has a Spider of his own that can be controlled with a useable Control Rod.
• Arniel Gane, a mage from the College of Winterhold who is researching Dwemer to the point where he uses one of Kagrenac's Tools and gets a first-had look at what may have caused their disappearance.
• From-Deepest-Fathoms, an Argonian in Riften who has a lexicon of the knowledge of the Dwemer, and the quest reward allows your smithing of Dwemer arms and armor to be better.
• The Dragonborn also can gain the knowledge of how to craft Dwemer arms and armor by smelting existing Dwemer alloys. It is also heavily suggested in the mainline games that Dwemer Armor is related to the outer plating of Centurions or allows people to act as centurions (as seen by the Visage of Mzund giving the player a steam breath attack).
• Legends also allowed the player to summon and control Dwemer automata.

Of course, we still have Divayth Fyr (and the Last Living Dwemer himself), but they're not exactly normal. We also have come Creation Club NPCs who are Dwemer researchers themselves, which also allow you to control some automata and eventually build your own horse Vamidium.

And this is not an exhaustive list. Point is that "Knowing and Using Dwemer Technology" is not exactly a rare thing in the mainline games, and is certainly seen more often than "shoot a green laser beam."

Now, as for the combat style... well, that also allows for some interesting things.

• Obviously, you'd have a summon line, where you could have temporary or permanent summons. That could overlap heavily with Sorcerer and Necromancer pets. It's more the other lines that could give unique combat styles, however the addition of another line of permanent pets could allow for more variety in Heavy Attack builds, most of which depend on a lightning staff and sorcerer pets.
• A traps line could be very unique for ESO. We do have some skills that give mines in the Sorc and guild lines, but we don't have a single skill which could act as a triggerable trap. I envision a skill where pushing it places the trap, and then pushing the skill a second time triggers it to go. That way to could set it up in chokepoints and allow one scout to walk over it, and then blast it when the rest of the team comes by. I could also envision something like a skill that allows you to place two pylons one after the other, and then a third trigger connects the two pylons with a beam (like the electric beams in HoF) to cut off bottlenecks in PvP.
• A Tonal Magic line, which could try to get a lot of the "I want a D&D Bard" players involved, since it is involving sound. We also see from the lore that there is a lor of soul magic going into that, which lends it very well to buffs and heals.

Third, there's the whole "but it's not something everyone should be able to do!" argument, which kind of falls apart when we consider that all of the classes are presented as things that are not general knowledge. Heck, there are currently lorebooks talking about how impressive it is to see one person breathe fire like the Dragons of old. If it were a super common thing, why is anyone impressed by it?
Besides, there are not any lorebooks talking about the 2nd Era as "the green laser rave era of Tamriel" despite that being exactly how it looks now. There is a suspension of disbelief that we as players need to use in realizing that our character is special for having the powers they do, and it's not like there are millions upon millions of people in Tamriel who have these powers.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ESO's also done several patches of "just QoL and bugfixes." We know there are a lot of people on these forums who vote "ESO should just stop releasing new stuff and focus on fixing things!" like it'll solve all the problems. Well, they did. Several times. U39 was specifically said to be the "taking the time during this development cycle to focus on polishing existing in-game systems and addressing some longstanding requests" patch, and then U43 (Home Tours) patch was also mainly QoL features. Note that they did not fix all of the problems, and also they didn't really do anything to bring people in or back to the game.

I'm low-key kind of dreading that overland difficulty will be used as the big new system and not a QOL change, and that it being launched without new stuff will lead it to flopping and people blaming it for that. I'm just getting a bad feeling vibe about that.

QOL changes are really important for keeping a live service game good and people happy. But they aren't the main attraction.

They're like icing on the cake.

I play neither Rallying Cry, nor the monomyth, nor the charm, nor the rush of agony (which I haven't seen in ages actually, the lag makes it way to unreliable), about Subclasses I don't know, personally playing Stamsorc with Assassination, because ZoS neglected a stamina sorc spamable since 10 years, you always had to use weapon lines or Crystal Weapon after it was added, which is clunky af, so Assassination Surprise Attack was a blessing, not my fault everyone uses that line for Spectral Arrow, I am just happy to finally have a Stamina Spamable. I really hope in their class rework, they do not forget Stamsorcs again...we lost so much already. Once the fastest, the burstiest, now just a shadow of the past, in my case with Sets of the Past, that still work for me, but can't compete with the Meta at all.

I'll continue here since I do need to change topic slightly and the previous post was getting a little on the long side in the first place.

The major issue with a "Monk Class" would be that ESO's mantra is that any Class should be able to use any weapon and any armor style for any role. "Monk as Class" does fall apart there, since it requires "Greatsword Monk Tank" to be able to be a thing.

What people want when they say "Monk Class" is "I want an unarmed fighter." That's not an ESO Class, that's an ESO weapon line.
Now... we should have one. However, that's considering it differently. Hand-to-hand does have the animations and actually does even have damage values for attacks. It just doesn't have a skill line with it. It does also mean that unequipping weapons leaves you two gear pieces short. This could be solved by making 'invisible' gear pieces (that would need to be refarmed for all sets), or by having the skill line passives make e.g. the rings count as two gear slots.

But the major problem: the Class Rework. Because of this rework (and the fact it seems like it will be one Class rework per Update at best), it's not likely they'll finish that until Q3 2027 at the earliest.
Now, in the quick Q&A stream they did on the Class rework, they did try to assure us that the rework would not get in the way of adding new things. But they weren't very specific about that - it's clear that reworking and rebalancing the Classes would not affect the art team adding new zones or motifs, and it's unlikely to affect the encounters team adding new Classes outside of making sure the updated Classes still have the ability to clear the content... but if the Combat team is busy remaking the old Classes, it does seem like that will take away from the Combat team's ability to add new ones.
...but is two years too long of a wait for them to add anything new to combat at all, like new Grimoires as well?

That being said, we can also consider that the release of Arcanist was definitely a money maker for ZOS. Call it P2W, but everyone using a beam now had to have put down money specifically for that Class - you don't get Classes via ESO+, you can only get it via Chapter/Pass purchase or a la carte purchase the year after it releases.
After 2025, they really need something that will drive sales, and this will do it.

Plus, with Subclassing, the major downside of new Classes ("but I don't want to level a new character!") is essentially gone. You absolutely will be able to take an existing character and use the new skills on them. And for those who want to have the "start from scratch" experience, we do have an updated tutorial and revamped Starter zones to look forward to.