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Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
I would love a video showing prior to setup on both sides plus duel itself!
It wasn't a duel. We both stood still parsing each other like parsing a dummy, each rotating through offensive and defensive rotations. The goal was to test maximum DPS on WW and maximum HPS on my Sorc. As seen from the screenshots, WW sustained a 10.2k DPS in nearly 2 minutes of dueling, and I sustained 10k+ HPS.
In an actual duel that DPS would most likely be around 8.5k-9k (accounting for blocking and roll dodges), which is still an absurd amount. Keep in mind, WW is still missing the 33% WD modifier due to a bug.
Please also include the 'generic meta DK build' for comparison if you do this (Pyrebrand DK as you mentioned it is darn-close to the wolf spec you're getting hit by) so that we have something for reference as a base to compare to (I still hate that player skill and latency can cause discrepancy but it should be sufficient for highlighting these potential issues never the less.).
The generic meta build is just Zaan + Pyrebrand + Vate ice staff and the new DK class masteries. That one does around 8k DPS, but has more burst.
Both specs are currently overtuned on PTS. Interestingly enough, that DK spec cannot kill WW because they're stacking 40k+ HP.
hoangdz
1
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
The 6-8% or whatever from Static Reverb is not why WW does 10k dps. Relequen is consistently 20% of that and definitely doesn't belong in PvP, yet they're getting similar results without it. So what is pushing the damage of WW LA-Rip spam to such insane levels?huskandhunger wrote: »Then the issue is actually with Static Reverberation from Sorcerer and Relequen the set.
The sorc class masteries are a big reason that you can achieve these values. One of the main issues with ww on live is how hard it is to sustain. With Conservation of energy (combined with the reduced cost of new the ww abilities), sustain becomes a non issue to the point where you can run way more damage than before (or survivability if you wish).
Some of the reworked ww abilities also offers significantly more damage than on live. Conclusion is that it's the synergy between a lot of things.
Values should definitely be looked at (give me a generic stat squish across all content in pvp and pve please), because any patch where ww is ridiculously overtuned (Elsweyr, Murkmire enchant meta, markarth hp recovery ww etc) only ever leads to balance swings to the opposite end of being viable. Ww should be viable, but not to the potential we see on PTS currently. Can't say what would be the best way for adjustment, but some of these offensive values are a bit over the top.
Re: Don't nerf crit resist
MincMincMinc wrote: »Another thing to add for the idea of countering the prolific crit chance/damage issue is for zos to build in counter crit sets. A LONG time ago we had sets like the old warrior's fury set and a few other where the more you were crit, the stronger you became. For instance old fury gave up to 750wd if you were hit with 25 crits. OR wizard's riposte where it reduced all their damage by 15% for 15 seconds.
Or how about something like taking sets like 7th legion and replacing the useless health recovery with crit resistance? That would be another perfect blast from the past set to reinvigorate.
Big agree!
Re: Sorc pet hate has to stop
here is the issue with static and pets
no pet - 17k static
flappy bird - 11k static, 8k bird
I'm giving up 2 skill slots to gain 2k dps.
It's just not worth it. I can run literally an other skill and get more dps from it.
Yes, you've "balanced" no pet and pet damage, but you've removed all reason to use the pets at all.
no pet - 17k static
flappy bird - 11k static, 8k bird
I'm giving up 2 skill slots to gain 2k dps.
It's just not worth it. I can run literally an other skill and get more dps from it.
Yes, you've "balanced" no pet and pet damage, but you've removed all reason to use the pets at all.
Tannus15
4
Re: Season Zero: Dawn and Dusk Is Now Live
twisttop138 wrote: »LadyHermione wrote: »One annoying flaw that I've encountered with the Tome Weekly Challenges. There is no way to lockout/disable/delete a specific challenge if we don't want to actually do and claim them whatsoever.
For example, If I got the Collect 15 Runestones challenge and I'm out of re-rolls for this week but I want to re-roll this challenge for next week, I'm unable to if I accidentally collect 15 Runestones during the week with normal game-play. So until the next week rolls over, I have to be very careful I do not reach 1/6 for that, otherwise I'm stuck with a challenge I do not want to complete.
This is very annoying for someone who randomly loots nodes during game-play because it's fun but not to the amount of 90 of them for each type of node for completion. I also understand that there is plenty of other tome points to be had to unlock every page and this is just an annoyance. But at this moment it feels like I'm being caged from freely looting/farming nodes to my hearts content if I loot below the threshold of 6/6 of these types of challenges and are now stuck with them. And if I get multiples of these type of challenges and not enough luck with my re-rolls, then there is more constriction since again, we cannot delete a specific challenge so we are stuck with it and might be forced to complete it because of the 12 challenge cap to think about.
Just collect freely and let tome points be a natural background consequence of playing the game.
I think more people would feel more comfortable doing this if it weren't for the fact that completing different challenges grants different amounts of tome points. For someone who is trying to maximize tome points, accidentally completing challenges by just playing the game might be a problem.
I do hope they adjust the tome points amounts received from challenges to be equal so that we can just play the game and complete challenges naturally without worrying about it.
I'm right there with you. They borrowed heavily from fallout 76's pass season system. But one thing I wish they kept was that all weekly and daily challenges award the same points. The only way to get a higher point challenge is to reroll until you get an "epic" challenge. It's RNG based if you get it and the points reward is only slightly higher with a little bit of a more difficult challenge. But its there if you want it. I don't really like that the points can vary wildly. I do understand that it all evens out and that no matter what, doing your challenges every week will get way more points than you need but I still dislike it.
Re: Sorc pet hate has to stop
I'm totally against the random red tape they're adding against permanent pets, even though I don't like being forced to use them, I certainly don't want to be punished for using them either.
However, my other perspective is this.. Warden and Sorc are the only classes with permanent pets and they just so happen to be the next classes being refreshed. Permanent pets have been a large point of contention since the game launched and has only increased each year as more roadblocks get added like Beacon of Oblivion, Daedric Summoning passives, Daedric Prey being changed for subclassing to only work on Daedric pets, the Sorc Signature Script, and now this between Signet and the Implosion Mastery.
Both classes also have a history of performing better for DPS via their permanent pet option over their non pet alternatives, so in this sense, it makes sense to have Signet and Implosion work best for non pet users because they have a bigger pure class gap to fill. From tests I've seen so far, Warden still performs better with Signet + Bear than Signet + Uber Buffed Northern Storm, so in this sense for Warden, the nerf was justified.
Although, I think Signet should be reworked entirely because not casting your ultimate is dumb af, but thats a separate discussion.
It stands to reason ZOS will be looking to address feedback regarding these issues or they're effectively burying their heads in the sand and missing a major opportunity for improvement. I highly doubt given their track record this year that this is the case, so I fully expect this to be a non issue come U51 and/or U52. This feels more like a bandaid to me.
My main gripe as a bandaid is they went about it all wrong.
I don't know what a temporary solution would be if there is one, but it could definitely be reduced and simplified in the time being, I just hope this doesn't continue beyond Warden and Sorc refresh.
However, my other perspective is this.. Warden and Sorc are the only classes with permanent pets and they just so happen to be the next classes being refreshed. Permanent pets have been a large point of contention since the game launched and has only increased each year as more roadblocks get added like Beacon of Oblivion, Daedric Summoning passives, Daedric Prey being changed for subclassing to only work on Daedric pets, the Sorc Signature Script, and now this between Signet and the Implosion Mastery.
Both classes also have a history of performing better for DPS via their permanent pet option over their non pet alternatives, so in this sense, it makes sense to have Signet and Implosion work best for non pet users because they have a bigger pure class gap to fill. From tests I've seen so far, Warden still performs better with Signet + Bear than Signet + Uber Buffed Northern Storm, so in this sense for Warden, the nerf was justified.
Although, I think Signet should be reworked entirely because not casting your ultimate is dumb af, but thats a separate discussion.
It stands to reason ZOS will be looking to address feedback regarding these issues or they're effectively burying their heads in the sand and missing a major opportunity for improvement. I highly doubt given their track record this year that this is the case, so I fully expect this to be a non issue come U51 and/or U52. This feels more like a bandaid to me.
My main gripe as a bandaid is they went about it all wrong.
- They could of just allowed pet Warden/Sorc to overperform for 1~2 patches given the transitional period we're in, but I understand the scope of the situation is not just regulated to within their kits, but vsing other classes, so the solution they came up with might seem more reasonable for the time being.
- They could of chosen to buff non pet users instead of nerfing pet users, this effectively has the same outcome, but appears as less of a punishment from the users point of view.
- The nerf calculation they're using is too drastic especially since not all of the permanent pets are created equal. Bear > Familiar > Tormentor. Starting at 1/2 power, then 1/3, to finally 1/4 is just ridiculously punishing for no reason. It could also be simplified to something like -10% damage per pet or -20% for having at least 1 permanent pet.
- Bear requires 2 ult slots, so it should be the strongest, which is why Signet is still competitive for Warden, but Tormentor doesn't have a useful activation and does not have improved status effect application like Bear or Familiar, so it doesn't even really benefit from Signet and it's not outputting double ticks of damage for Implosion to work off of.
- God forbid you subclass and combine all 3 permanent pets, now you have 1/4 the benefit on Signet which is laughable because a ZOO build is already reserved to role play material, it's that bad.
I don't know what a temporary solution would be if there is one, but it could definitely be reduced and simplified in the time being, I just hope this doesn't continue beyond Warden and Sorc refresh.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
CalamityCat wrote: »Let's not nuke a cool revamp just because there is some agenda, especially if it's as ridiculous as "1 bar builds shouldn't be able to hurt me this much!" Because I know those players exist lol.
They exist in this very thread, a few people have already pushed this agenda, so it's not even 'I saw it!' we all see it cause it's right here haha.
I agree though, I don't care about PvP but my main dog in this fight is not losing access to Class Masteries with werewolf across the board, including in PvE, which is what some people are pushing for.
coop500
2
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
Those were parses, not actual fights. See my post #167 above for actual fights vs WW. Can confirm that simply avoiding their attacks drastically reduces WW damage.Did you miss the 10k dps metrics already posted on this thread?
NO. Pressure is finally competitive with burst again. The meta needs effective tools to punish stationary turtling and deny fight resets. Static Reverb, DK, and WW do exactly that.As for sorc mastery, I think simply adding a condition "when dealing direct or shock damage" would effectively prevent werewolves from abusing sorc mastery.
xylena
3
Re: Tomes weekly challenges too much work
Tome challange with 1000 enemies are possible to do in group?
Yes, but most folks seem to have missed the idea that this challenge lasts until July 9 when then next Tome rolls in. I've knocked off about half of it since it showed up simply by having a couple of characters who need to rank up Thieves Guild picking up Spencer Rye's daily and then walking to the quest objective. Hopefully enemies in the grotto and Bahraha's Gloom will start counting soon, but scorpions, rats, herons, Dragon Frogs, and whatnot work just as well (if it has a hit point, it counts and usually fills my bait container). Two characters had not completed Orzorga's four quests and needed her recipes, so those helped, too. Point being that nibbling will get you there just the same as devouring.
