Best Of
Re: Sorc pet hate has to stop
I love this idea, and would love it even more if the Conjuration skill line was PvE only. Targetable NPC pets in PvP have never been anything but oppressively busted, or totally useless.birdmann1230 wrote: »Put pets as a world line Conjuration and change Daedric summoning to something else on the sorc. Everyone gets their pets who wants them and the sorc isn’t handicapped by it. I wish for the day my main can run a high dps in content without them instead of beam spamming.
xylena
4
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
Okay that must be why he said "StamSorc can't break 8k dps" because he runs 43k hp 35k armor tank builds that can heal 10k hps but can't threaten the WW. He's skilled enough to adapt, a more offensive strat that aims to win the dps race would probably be more effective. That's good for the game if the meta demands players end fights, not indefinitely turtle and reset.dark_hunterxmg wrote: »Yes that player. It's not a dummy parse. I saw it happen in actual fights.
The WW in question is either Pelican or Strepsel. Not a chance anyone here is killing them, considering they have 10k+ DPS, 40k+ HP, and 30k+ armor.
You need 43k HP to tank that, which means losing damage.
hoangdz
2
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
So we finally agreeWe are now at a point of no return. DKs had their moments and will continue to have their moments. Let the other classes be brought up.Are we still talking about the 10k player dummy parse? The only duel I lost to the WW player I made a mistake and ate his whole rotation for 8k dps, same dps ceiling from DK and Sorc. Since I can do the same thing on my Sorc to beat the WW and others, this seems like the new standard.dark_hunterxmg wrote: »We're talking double the dps while using the same sets and class masteries. That player may be good, but the skill gap isn't that big.
If we don't want 8-9k dps and endless sustain to be the norm, we'd need to address the underlying inflated stats and busted sets, not nerf individual classes into empty husks.
I really wonder how Stamsorc does all this DPS whilst having 4 hots and 33k armor and 34k health. I mean what do you even use to still have high DPS? If I do this on MagSorc I have no offense left.
Dracane
1
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
Celas_Dranacea wrote: »Personally …. Im not gonna say dueling is unimportant - I’m glad dueling is there for people and that there’s a community around it.
HOWEVER there are so many other factors at play in BGs, Cyrodil, and IC which is the majority of the PVP experience for most players. And in those instances werewolf will still be experiencing major drawbacks. So personally I’d like to focus more attention on these kind of more common PvP situations.
We still have to get into melee range to do damage and expose ourselves in that way in terms of front line fighting in BGs, getting hit by siege in Cyro, etc…. That’s all good.
We will not be able to purge, cross heal or cross shield, same as now on live. These are all things other one bar builds can do btw as others have stated.There is all sorts of utility that is closed to us. To really complete the werewolf kit we should have a scribed ability that provides these options but that’s not on the table for now. Fine.
Any group comprised of mostly werewolves facing a similar size group of cross healing / cross buffing and shielding players of any particular class will really have their work cut out for them. This is what it’s like now and it will be that way in the future. We will still be at a disadvantage. For us experienced ww players we accept the challenge but it can suck at times lol.
Imagine the current PTS patch were to go live - in a fight between 4 DKs vs 4 werewolves, I’d probably put my money on the 4 DKs don’t you think? The DKs can rotate various ultis and abilities for constant buffs and debuffs, chain shields, and cross-heal through pressure while sustaining resources using any abilities from their class + all other skill lines + gear + scribing. Meanwhile the werewolves are basically 4 strong individuals with no cross-healing, shielding, or real group utility save for what they can build in with gear, and a couple of buffs and debuffs that would be redundant to one another.
Heck, in the current state of ulti management, for any beserker wolf they will have trouble staying in form say in BG or Cyrodil when they are in combat but not in your face fighting every single second - say when they need to reposition around the battlefield. It’s already an issue in duels much more so in open world.
So all this is to say that least in 1v1 werewolf will have more of a fighting chance against meta builds than we currently have on live.
Sounds like a couple things like relequens and the sorc passives yall are talking about are overtuned perhaps and worth looking at, sure
But overall ZOS I think you guys are on the right track to make werewolf a bit more competitive! Still more work to do to achieve that!
I’d like to hear more thoughts about how this plays out in group vs group and open world settings. Some good comments on that front already
I love duelling, but I think it's just for sport. It does not matter beyond one's own ego. There are neither rewards nor any further impact for it. (Other than your ego suffering)
But it does inform us about some things. Many people run duelling builds in Battlegrounds and smallscale, and you will often find yourself in 1v1 scenarios. So it matters in some ways, but not immensly either.
Dracane
1
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
I would maybe consider Conservation of Energy busted. The interaction with BfB is silly.
It is broken, but without it Sorc gets dumpstered by DKs and Wardens who are doing 7-8k sustained DPS. I'd say keep Conservation and buff the less ideal passives (NBs, Templars, etc).
We are now at a point of no return. DKs had their moments and will continue to have their moments. Let the other classes be brought up.
hoangdz
2
Re: A social issue people are reluctant to bring up
I am about 99.9% sure that the toxicity OP is talking about has nothing to do with dps measuring addons and everything to do with people rightfully getting banned after making openly racist/bigoted remarks up to and including open death threats.
These things aren't common, but they do happen, people get reported, banned, and sometimes they vanish forever and sometimes show up with a new name on an account they purchased and start gloating about their nonsense.
These things aren't common, but they do happen, people get reported, banned, and sometimes they vanish forever and sometimes show up with a new name on an account they purchased and start gloating about their nonsense.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
RedKynAbyss wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.
Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.
Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.
From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.
You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.
So I need to cleanse every 5s to survive? How I'm supposed to sustain this, and in the meantime kill my opponent? My chances are 0% here.
And I'm positive that you build wildfire stacks by JUST light attacking. Light attacks refresh pyrebrand, and refreshing pyrebrang gererates stacks. TESTED.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
Did Class Mastery help in providing a meaningful boost to power for playing as a solo class?
The ones I've tried so far seemed helpful.
Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post subclassing play environment?
I would say that it will likely depend on how the balance ends up shaking out in the long run.
If it makes Pure Classes competitive but not so powerful that it feels like you are shooting yourself in the foot not to play one it will expand player agency as sometimes the Pure Classes might not feel like a good option.
If it makes the Pure Classes so powerful that it feels like subclassing is shooting your character in the foot the system will be reducing agency.
What are the things you like about Class Mastery?
I like that the system will help a bit when it comes to making Pure Classes more competitive.
Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?
It might be cleaner to try to even out the power a bit more on the abilities/passives rather than leaning as heavily on putting power into Class Mastery to fill the gaps.
For example, part of the reason people are running Assassination subclassed is because of the Increases your Critical Damage by 10% on Hemorrhage. You could move that over to Shadow to reduce the pressure on players to subclass into assassination without hurting Pure Class NB. Hideous Clarity and Fated Fortune could trade places on the Arcanist to drop a bit of the offensive potential away from subclassing into Herald of the Tome.
It might also be worth looking at shifting some of the value or certain powerful class abilities across lines a bit more and maybe adjusting the power of some non-class abilities. For example, it might be worth considering reducing the amount of Ultimate provided by Necrotic Potency by one of two and providing one or two ultimate on each usage of the Corpse Consumption passive. It might also be worth looking at if the Necrotic Orb and morphs should maybe be doing less resource restoration so that other abilities/items would be more competitive.
The ones I've tried so far seemed helpful.
Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post subclassing play environment?
I would say that it will likely depend on how the balance ends up shaking out in the long run.
If it makes Pure Classes competitive but not so powerful that it feels like you are shooting yourself in the foot not to play one it will expand player agency as sometimes the Pure Classes might not feel like a good option.
If it makes the Pure Classes so powerful that it feels like subclassing is shooting your character in the foot the system will be reducing agency.
What are the things you like about Class Mastery?
I like that the system will help a bit when it comes to making Pure Classes more competitive.
Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?
It might be cleaner to try to even out the power a bit more on the abilities/passives rather than leaning as heavily on putting power into Class Mastery to fill the gaps.
For example, part of the reason people are running Assassination subclassed is because of the Increases your Critical Damage by 10% on Hemorrhage. You could move that over to Shadow to reduce the pressure on players to subclass into assassination without hurting Pure Class NB. Hideous Clarity and Fated Fortune could trade places on the Arcanist to drop a bit of the offensive potential away from subclassing into Herald of the Tome.
It might also be worth looking at shifting some of the value or certain powerful class abilities across lines a bit more and maybe adjusting the power of some non-class abilities. For example, it might be worth considering reducing the amount of Ultimate provided by Necrotic Potency by one of two and providing one or two ultimate on each usage of the Corpse Consumption passive. It might also be worth looking at if the Necrotic Orb and morphs should maybe be doing less resource restoration so that other abilities/items would be more competitive.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
whteva4eva wrote: »Class Mastery Feedback – Healers & Tanks
1. Did Class Mastery help in providing a meaningful boost to power for playing as a solo class?
For support roles (healers and tanks), the system does not currently provide a meaningful increase in power.
Support effectiveness is measured through group impact, not personal output. Most Class Mastery passives are too passive, conditional, or low-impact to significantly affect real gameplay, and therefore do not feel like a meaningful power increase when playing without subclassing.
2. Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post subclassing play environment?
Not for support roles. Subclassing currently provides:
Reliable group buffs
Resource sustain
Strong, identity-defining utility
Class Mastery does not offer an equivalent level of impact, which results in a lack of real choice. Healers and tanks are effectively forced into subclassing because the opportunity cost of losing that group utility is too high.
3. What are the things you like about Class Mastery?
It brings a strong concept with potential for build diversity, an opportunity to reinforce class identity, and opens space for alternative playstyles.
4. What places do you think could use improvement with Class Mastery?
1. Utility is too weak compared to subclassing
Effects do not meaningfully impact group performance
Not strong enough to justify replacing subclass utility
2. Effects are too conditional or inconsistent
Health thresholds and niche triggers reduce reliability
Support roles need consistent uptime, not situational value
3. Lack of group-oriented design
Many passives feel like they were designed for DPS (self-focused bonuses)
Healers and tanks need group-wide impact, not personal gain
4. Passives are not role-defining and can be taken by DPS
Some utility passives are generic enough that DPS can take them with little tradeoff. Because of this, they are tuned conservatively, which further weakens their value for supports. This results in passives that are not strong for supports, but still accessible to DPS, creating poor role identity
5. Opportunity cost is too high
Losing subclassing means losing proven, high-impact utility. Class Mastery does not currently compensate for that loss
5. Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?
For support roles, Class Mastery needs to meet a higher standard:
It should provide group utility powerful enough that a healer or tank could reasonably choose it over subclassing.
This can be achieved by:
Increasing group-wide utility, not just personal stats
Ensuring high uptime and reliability
Designing effects that are role-defining, not generic
Additionally, if certain passives are intended to serve support roles, they should be designed in a way that:
Either scales with healing/tanking behavior, or
Provides value that DPS cannot easily utilize
At its current state, the system feels overly cautious and sits in a middle ground where:
It is not strong enough for supports
But not specialized enough to justify being weak
As a result, Class Mastery does not currently function as a true alternative to subclassing for healers and tanks, and player choice in these roles remains limited.
I agree with most of this but I do think that DK's "Lead from the Front" mastery combined with RoJo healer specifically will be fun.
That's the only real use case I can see for supports where masteries have enough specific utility to replace subclassing though.
Re: U50 Bug Reports for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
If you purchase a passive while already transformed into a Werewolf, the passive will not apply any combat effects until you re-transform. This is expected behavior due to how the passives are set up on the backend.
@ZOS_Erin apologies, but I believe you've misinterpreted the issue;
Putting one point into Feral Cruelty is giving the 16% Weapon & Spell Damage Buff as intended.
But when you put two points in Feral Cruelty, it isn't giving you the 33% Weapon & Spell Damage Buff, instead it's only giving Major Resolve without any Weapon & Spell Damage Buff.
From my own testing, and from what you can see in Kickimanjaro's video, we are putting in the points before transforming and 2 points in Feral Cruelty just isn't giving the 33% Weapon & Spell Damage Buff.
