TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

If you could stack heals in a group you could at least try to coordinate fight back against a zerg.

That's just stacking heals to stall out a fight without killing anyone, like the ball groups on Live, and what the large raid guilds on Vengeance are doing. Their raw numbers flip flags, as opposed to a ball group circling the roof for 40 minutes.

What any large scale PvP needs is for solos/casuals/zergs to be able to put out enough damage to win outnumbered, without the need for the outside-game logistics and hard structure demanded by running in comp groups. This could potentially be accomplished by say, removing offensive AoE caps and restoring the lingering ground AoE on Meatbags.

Your point is lacking any real logical sense. You do this on every thread where you complain about the same things over and over and nothing is ever done to nerf it but you don't really ever take it as a sign. You want people to be able to kill COORDINATED GROUPS, while the lesser groups that aren't a ball group are NOT COORDINATED and also HAVE LESS PEOPOLE. Skills and sets like this already exist to benefit players when they are out numbered. There is no way to make smaller groups able to consistently kill bigger more coordinated groups without breaking the game entirely.

I mean just think of it, it doesn't make sense. Smaller groups can already beat better groups that are stacking heals if the player number isn't extremely significant. If the player number is extremely significant ex. 4v12, and the skill level of the players is similar, it would make zero sense for the 4 to consistently be able to beat the 12. When I go out with my group and I engage groups much bigger than ours, where the players are also skilled, we are aware we are not supposed to win every single engage, that's just what happens.

If you nerf heals or cross heals to a certain number, all you are doing is making that cap the next "ballgroup" number. Groups used to go up to 24 and were much worse, both on the server and for the health of the game's balance. A 12 man group isn't even that bad. Groups of 24 pugs should be able to deal with it unless they are just not great at the game, and guess what, if they aren't great they shouldn't win.

There isn't a logical proposal ever brought up when you engage on this topic, and you do it daily, for hours on end.

In addition, only bad ballgroups just heal stack and don't do anything. My group consistently fights and kills the biggest and best ballgroups in the game. Ballgroups always fight each other and one usually ends up winning. Stalling and perma fighting only happens with zergs who sit there and res each other over and over, which creates more lag than any ballgroup ever will, and no ballgroup ever complains about that lack of balance because guess what, it's just what happens where there are too many people. People aren't asking for ressing to be nerfed so it can't continue the way it does , but that is way healthier for the game than anything else proposed.

Nothing is ever done because devs don’t play PvP against ballgroups and ballgroups lobby against any nerfs successfully and make all other playstiles quit until they are only ones left(also in forum).

Noone is asking for smaller group to beat a larger more coordinated group consistently but there should be a way to do it at all.
If you trade blows with a larger group you loose even if they don’t have crosshealing but if you catch and burst them offguard or oil them they shouldn’t get saved by shared effects when otherwise they would have died.
IRL beeing in a larger group doesn’t protect you from lethal dmg but having larger number is still a usually decisive advantage in fights.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

This is exactly the situation that a ballgroup would be able to break on live.

Solos/pugs need to be able to break these situations or the game dies, as Live has proved.

No, an uncoordinated group should not be able to consistently beat or even seriously disrupt a coordinated larger force. That makes absolutely zero logical sense.

A small coordinated group, however, especially when fighting within a zerg, absolutely can disrupt and even kill 12-man ball groups if they build and coordinate properly. But explain to me how it makes any sense for a random pug running their solo YouTube build to deal lethal damage on their own to a group that has spent far more time and effort min-maxing comps, perfecting roles, and drilling execution specifically to have a competitive advantage.

That’s like saying a thousand untrained peasants should be able to consistently beat a hundred trained marines just because of sheer numbers. Use your brain — preparation, coordination, and skill are supposed to matter.

I already said I don’t ask to consistently beat a larger group but just for a way to kill them.

That a smaller ballgroup can beat a larger ballgroup with help of a zerg is no option or help for non-members of ballgroups.

The marines should have the skills to avoid getting mortally wounded but not survive getting shot in the chest many times without bulletproof vest than kill the peasant by a glancing shot scratching his finger.

You took that parallel way too literally. The point wasn’t to run a military sim, it was dumbed down so even people like you could understand: coordination and skill matter, and they carry far more weight than anything a single pug can put out.

And let’s not pretend solos contribute nothing — you do contribute against a ball group, you just don’t feel it because it’s minimal. Why? Because you didn’t put in the same time, effort, and coordination that the ball group invests into min-maxing comps and perfecting execution. That’s the difference.

You took from that parallel only what fits your agenda and ignore the part contradicting it expecting me to do the same.
Finding that contradiction is taking it too literal for you, others are only allowed to use the part that supports your agenda.
Am I too dumb to understand your arguments (if not dumbed down) or not dumb enaugh to believe them.
While coordination and skill should and do matter ballgroups get even more of their strength from groupbuilds enabling godmode.
Contribution too minimal too feel it is nearly nothing and makes fighting ballgroups or PvP at all when they are everywhere senseless.
Soloplayers also invest time into min-maxing their builds and perfecting their execution and coordination but can’t coordinate with players that are non existent or always changing.

Alright, let’s dumb this down to your level and go back to the example. A thousand peasants would never defeat a hundred trained US Marines in any realistic modern warfare scenario. Surprised I even have to spell that out for you, but here we are.

Yes, the peasants (you) can “optimize” their setup all they want, but they still wouldn’t be able to take on the Marines (the 12-man ball group), even if they outnumber them 5 to 1, unless the Marines make a huge mistake. And that’s exactly how it should be.

You keep crying as a solo player in an MMO about groups existing, but if you actually believe you can min-max your builds so well, then grab a few friends and build a proper 4–5 man comp. Zerg down a ball group and see how far you get.

Making my own group solves problem only for my group while playing as one but make it even worse for any other solo players.
Most members would probably would rather farm unorganized players themselves than prevent other group from doing so as groups don’t fight each other. I want prevent bullying solo players not participate in it.

I have tried making my own group because it is the only way to not get zerged out of game and killed some zergs and smallscales even without group builds in the rare cases I found enaugh players but finally gave up because I could not find enaugh players to make group not to mention regular ones. Playing in group without groupbuilds makes you stronger than without enaugh to do it without sozial reasons but much less than a group with group builds that you are still changeless against.

My friends are either playing in other groups, changed faction, don’t want guildraid regular or with voicechat, are casuals, don’t like each other, unavailable for other reasons or quitted whole game or PvP because it is in decline.

I also played in some guilds but it was boring and my schedule incompatible and I met so toxic people I don’t want meet new ones.
For most of these guild I made groupbuilds.
None of the above reasons have anything to do with being bad at minmaxing or playing.

This will be the last time I reply to you on this because I’m done going in circles with someone who clearly struggles to grasp even the basics of what’s being said. The only reason I brought up that scenario was to draw a comparison between highly optimized teamwork versus what any single individual can achieve alone. Whether it’s war efforts, sports, a job, or videogames, you’ll always see that well-spent time with coordination and teamwork will prevail over individual effort. That’s literally how humans function and why we’ve advanced as far as we have. I hope one day you can finally catch on to that and understand why you’re getting farmed on the top floor over and over again.

And just to clarify: the war example is a general comparison. ESO is not modern warfare, but just like in warfare or any other coordinated practice, optimized teamwork will always defeat a mediocre peasant-like effort on its own. That’s the reality you keep refusing to accept. Good luck with that.