Bguk wrote: »

I personally like that they introduced more flash. Brings life to a previously blander world.

Of course everyone can join what ever game they like, but I'm genuinely wondering: Why choose a game with a world design one finds bland, and then be happy if it gets changed to something completely different - instead of joining one which has an art style one likes from the beginning? If I want to eat pizza, I go to a pizza place, not to a sushi restaurant hoping they might start to sell pizza there, too.

Many people joined ESO exactly for that "bland", realistic, style.

To me it feels like there was not much thought or interest in a consistent art direction anymore; as in asking oneself certain specific questions to decide if or if not to release a thing, to make sure that wandering through Tamriel in ESO feels like a well-rounded and coherent experience of this fictional world.

And with that I mean both questions like lore ("Does this thing make sense in the depicted world?"), but also design principles. For example something like "Rare artifacts must look otherworldly and more special than any other items, to emphasize their meaning in the fictional world" or "Incursions are supposed to be the most extreme events in overland, so player effects need to clearly be less flashy and noisy than those", or just generally "How can ESO's art style be described? Does this new thing we want to release fit that style?"

Also in writing, of course, where things would matter like "What are common themes and problems in Tamriel?", "What do the Tamrielic cultures think about different topics, which different cultural values and beliefs to they have?" or "Which speech style do these cultures have?"

Instead, today's writing feels more like "I like memes! (or "The consumers like memes"?) So let's put memes everywhere!", not taking into consideration at all whether it even fits the depicted world (and it's style and tone) or not. Which honestly does remind me a bit of how some children play; let's say a kid loves Spider Man, then Spider Man must up everywhere else too, and meets He-Man, Sponge Bob, My Little Pony world, and Princess Elsa (or what ever kids might like nowadays, I have no clue). And that's okay - but I want to see more thought about plausibility and world building being put into a fantasy narration for adults, especially one with a very extensive lore background, that many players love for exactly that reason.

It's generally strange by the way that it doesn't feel like there's a big focus on some aspects that made ESO special and that many players loved. Like the more realistic graphics compared to other MMOs, or in terms of writing and lore the different moral choices in quests, or the specific depiction of Tamriel's races, for example. Those were clearly strong and unique points, and I do wonder how ESO would have developed if a focus would have been put on these aspects.

In my OP I never said anything about color. I said bright and loud and flashy.

I did compare that to cartoons because that is what cartoons do to appeal to children. And when I see things like that in the game I wonder why the change.

I don't find a more realistic setting for a game to be boring. I find it way more immersive and believable that I am a strong character in a real world.

I can't just ignore explosions around me, and bright flashes of light that fill the screen, and especially bright lights filling my screen when I try to use my 2H sword now.

If people enjoy that then they can enjoy that, but I do not want to be a captive audience for light shows I do not want to be part of. And it is absolutely destroying the experience for more than a few.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

The combat team has had a mindset for a really long time that Sorcerer is too strong and shouldn't get strong buffs.

for example, the dev comment from update 46 regarding the frags proc change

"We've lagged a bit behind on updating this morph to persist through bar swap out of concern for making Sorcerer that much more powerful in PvP areas where they are not really hurting. With subclassing here, however, the idea of "classic" classes being too overpowered is less of a concern for the new world of truly specialized builds. This morph can be given a little bit extra love to help the skill line have more value for damage dealers, as it lacks other very potent damage producing abilities."

as well as mages fury

"We're tuning down the grace period of the infamous "auto execute" ability both in anticipation for subclassing and to tone down the Sorcerer's ability to easily secure kills, especially when they themselves aren't the ones always earning it. Since the class has been given plenty of other effective increases to their kit over the years, we're much more confident in this iteration of the ability to ensure it still feels significantly different and unique to other executes, while being a bit less effective at being a guaranteed death sentence."

Their initial impulse was to nerf bound armaments by 10% in the same update, but they were convinced not to during the PTS and then in the following update bound armaments was buffed when it was proven that relentless focus was 20% stronger with more functionality, more forgiving stacks and a cheaper cost to use.

Beacon of Oblivion is a terrible set because of the same restrictions being put on it, that you can't use your class skills if you want to use the class set.

@ZOS_Gilliam can you please stop hating on sorcerers and in particular pet builds. They are not a super strong S tier class, dark magic is the worst class line in the game, which even you seem to admit now since the main thing both font of power and conservation of energy do is allow you to get dark magic passives without actually using dark magic abilities, because they suck.

I mean, compare these two passives:

Hemorrhage II: WITH AN ASSASSINATION ABILITY SLOTTED Increases your Critical Damage by 10%. Dealing Critical Damage grants you and your group Minor Savagery, increasing your Weapon Critical rating by 1314 for 20 seconds.

Exploitation II: When you cast a Dark Magic ability you grant Minor Prophecy to you and your group, increasing your Spell Critical rating by 1314 for 20 seconds.

one of these things is not like the other one.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the class masteries, and I realise that the numbers are up for changing or whatever. Mostly, I just want the pet hate to stop.
No other class has this insanity.

I agree with the first half. Over the past few years, Sorc's skills have consistently been among the worst in their category. Exploitation and Bound Armaments are just the tip of the iceberg; there are many more similar cases in Sorc, such as Expert Mage vs. Slayer. Sorc deserves fairer treatment.

Firstly, no pet sorcs, i know you're out there. Saying you want to play a sorc and not use pets is fine, but if I was playing a "no channels templar" no one would care that my dps sucked because i've chosen to ignore 2 of the best dps skills in the templar kit. If you want to play a no pet sorc, just eat the dps loss. you've chosen to ignore the strongest dps options for a sorc, that's your choice.

Secondly, to devs, pets are part of the sorc identify. Stop punishing us for using it and instead encourage that as a viable play style. You know, like at launch with sets like necropotence. Where is the class mastery that makes the pets better? that's the part that is unique to sorcs!

Lean into what makes sorc unique!

However, I disagree with the second half. The pet system is a limitation for Sorc, as repeatedly argued here：https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688704/sorcerer-rework-new-class-new-systems-house-building-and-various-improvements-for-eso#latest. Reducing reliance on pets is beneficial, not harmful, to Sorc.

Furthermore, comparing the Temple's guiding skills, or any other type of skill, to pet gameplay is inappropriate. The biggest difference between pet gameplay and other gameplay is that pets are semi-independent entities whose behavior is essentially controlled by AI. Therefore, they are easy to operate, but also have a low skill ceiling. Moreover, Sorc's pets have many disadvantages that other skill types lack, such as being unable to proc certain proc sets when attacking, and being able to die/disappear under certain circumstances, leading to a loss of output and resources. These are unique to pets.

Unless the developers can resolve the following issues: 1. Pet death/disappearance (e.g., the final boss mechanic in Stone Garden); 2. The inability to proc sets; 3. Find a way to compensate for the weakness of pet area-of-effect damage; 4. Remove the 2-bar restriction; 5. Improve the usability of pet active skills; 6. Find a solution to prevent pets from obstructing the player's view; 7. Prevent pets from falling or getting stuck outside the terrain (this occasionally happens in Infinite Archive, forcing players to move a large distance to allow the pet to return or resummon it), or I support the current class mastery approach, which reduces the importance of pets and makes petless gameplay the mainstream.

I agree totally that pets have issues and in the class rework I think all your points are valid and worth raising.

That aside, an entire skill lines is daedric summoning. it's about the pets. My complaint is that we are getting punished for using the skills in the class kit.

Like it or not, in the past the combat team put a lot of power into the pets for sorcs, in the same way they put a lot of power for templar into jabs and beam. Or focus and impale for nightblade. Or the bear for the warden. I didn't make this choice, this is the developers who did this.
Now however, after they have pushed us into using pets, they are punishing us for using pets.

If I said I wanted to run a Warden dps but not use the bear I would be missing out on a huge amount of dps.
No pet wardens are terrible.

This is the warden animal companion class set

Aerie's Cry
2 items: Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
3 items: Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 items: Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
5 items: Dealing damage with a Light Attack applies Eagle's Mark to your target for 12 seconds. Eagle's Mark causes an eagle to attack your target every 3 seconds, after a 3 second delay, dealing 856 Physical Damage per attack. Increase your Damage Done with Animal Companion abilities by 10% against enemies with Eagle's Mark. This effect can occur every 3 seconds but cannot be applied to enemies who already have Eagle's Mark. You can have one Eagle's Mark active at a time.

Compare this to beacon of oblivion. It's a joke.

2 items: Adds 1487 Armor
3 items: Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health
5 items: While you have a permanent pet active, gain 1840 Health and 1980 Armor. While you do not have a permanent pet active, increase your Damage Done and Healing Done by 15%. This value is reduced to 5% while affected by Battle Spirit.

Only sorc gets punished for using their own class kit.
Look at the sorc class mastery

Enchant your closest pet for 5 seconds to heal a nearby ally for 879 Health each time it deals damage, up to once a second. If you do not have a pet, you deal 2312 Shock Damage to enemies within 8 meters of you.

It's garbage if you have a pet, fun if you don't. It's all over the sorc right now. You don't get good things if you use pets. Pets are a 3rd of the kit and pretty much the only good skills available.
I'm so over this.
This isn't a one off, this is a systemic problem with how sorc has been treated by the combat team for literally years.

Elendildur wrote: »

The main thing with these Class Mastery passives that concerns me for support Sorcs (both tanks and healers) isn't any of the Sorc Class Masteries, it's the DK one, Rousing Roar. Standard of Might is already a solid support ult now, but giving your group Major Berserk as well? That could kill Sorc as a support class.

Major Berserk from the Atro is the main reason anyone wants a Sorc running Daedric Summoning as a support. If DKs get that, plus 300 WSD, Major Protection and Major Heroism to all group members, there's no reason to use any Sorc line as a support. If it was Major Force instead, which only tends to get sourced from Aggressive Warhorn or Saxhleel Champion, it would still let Sorc supports have a place, since DK can then replace Saxhleel with another set, rather than replacing a whole class

100% this. DK should get something other than Major Berserk. Update the Atronach so the sorc can use their own synergy.

I disagree with the premise.

Syldras wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

I personally like that they introduced more flash. Brings life to a previously blander world.

Of course everyone can join what ever game they like, but I'm genuinely wondering: Why choose a game with a world design one finds bland, and then be happy if it gets changed to something completely different - instead of joining one which has an art style one likes from the beginning? If I want to eat pizza, I go to a pizza place, not to a sushi restaurant hoping they might start to sell pizza there, too.

Many people joined ESO exactly for that "bland", realistic, style.

Bad comparison. I didn't say I hated the world style, I said it was less bland (should have said that instead of blander, I think I made that word up lol), not bland as you rewrote it. I don't have to like all aspects of a game to play the game. I can enjoy the story, the companionship with others, the progression, sense of accomplishment, as examples. A game is not an all or nothing proposition.

Why are we picking on cartoons? Adults can like them just as much as children. Including those adults (and children) with long attention spans. The holier than though attitude is strong in MMO forums.

I personally like that they introduced more flash. Brings life to a previously blander world. Make the world more magical. Make it lively. As others have said, I get why people don't like it. Which is why the fx slider (way to tone down graphics) is being introduced.

This game used to be much more realistic. I don't want it to go the other direction any more than it already has.