Best Of
Re: Tome Point conversion concern at end of season.
I'm saying keep the challenges and assignments and rerolls like it is now, just adjust all the challenges to be worth the same.SirBanana1992 wrote: »PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »I agree that everyone should have equal reward points, but I disagree that the way to do that is a convoluted tiering of tasks that restricts choice.They already have a way of distinguishing difficulty with repeatability, they should just use that.
Pick a point value divisible by 2,3,4,5, and 6 and use that.
to make sure I understand, you mean like doing a few of a small task for minor vs doing a lot of the same task for a major?
Let's say 480 is a good target for a weekly all, then all weeklies are 480.
Defeat Sanctum Ophidia is a one and done challenge, it's worth 480.
Complete a trial is a do twice challenge, it's worth 240x2=480.
Complete a dungeon is a do 3 times challenge, it's worth 160x3=480.
Open a chest from a treasure map is a do 4 times challenge, it's worth 120x4=480.
Defeat Zymel Etitan or Zymel Kruz is a do 5 times challenge, it's worth 96x5=480.
Collect 15 Alchemical Ingredients is a do 6 times challenge, it's worth 80x6=480.
No matter what challenge you get, it is, in total, worth 480 points. This could be 420 or 540 or 600 as long as it's the same number for all challenges. Then rerolls are just about if you like the task, not about the points you get from it.
If I were designing this from scratch there are a whole lot of other things I would do differently, but they've chosen the path they like so I'm just working within their conception of how this should work and suggesting something that keeps everything the same, but fairer.
Re: OK. Just... why?
Honestly, the easiest solution would be for ZOS to stop with the artificial scarcity of housing materials, especially style mats. It irks me that the only way to reliably get some of them is to grind dailies on multiple characters.
anadandy
6
Re: OK. Just... why?
It feels like many of the posters here have read my mind and posted my unfiltered thoughts directly on the state of style materials in decorating and the prevalence of overworld enemies that offer no material benefit to players and only serve to waste one's time.
[ snip ]
I *would* spend an hour doing a dungeon to get, say, 60 heartwood and no other rewards. For the record. I would grind Skywatch for hours every day if the mobs had a decent chance of dropping Mundane Runes. I have friends who won't get into housing because there is no meaningful method to work towards it as a goal.
So much *THIS* ^^^^^
Especially the resource harvesting maps. It drives me nuts you don't get heartwood from that. It's just cheap plain and simple.
Re: OK. Just... why?
It feels like many of the posters here have read my mind and posted my unfiltered thoughts directly on the state of style materials in decorating and the prevalence of overworld enemies that offer no material benefit to players and only serve to waste one's time.
The suicide murder wolves don't enhance my experience of playing the game. It's not fun to have to trip over trash that disables my mails, my ability to teleport, my ability to mount, and my ability to harvest while going from point A to point B. The wolves don't give amazing experience when killed. They don't have amazing drops. They don't make the game world feel more real and alive -- quite the opposite, because as @Arunei accurately points out, wolves don't behave that way. Nothing living does, because it's so ridiculously idiotic, anything that tried would be surely wiped out. I am not compelled by the argument the game world would be empty without trash mobs littering the zones. We've played Skyrim. The mob density in Skyrim is much lower, and the game is better for that. It allows a player to take in the game world without annoyance or interruption. I wouldn't want to teleport around as much if there were fewer hostile overworld enemies. I play Skyrim without fast travel exclusively. I would feel the world was richer and more interesting because I could dedicate my attention to appreciating it, instead of on avoiding the little red dots on my compass.
The problem with style materials used in decoration, I think, is twofold.
One: No activity in game seems to be specifically focused on their acquisition as the main reward and the actual point of the activity. The acquisition of style materials feels incidental to whatever task you are doing. The most reliable way to earn them, doing dailies, isn't even equally reliable across the game -- I stopped doing Blackwood dailies after not earning a single Ivory Brigade Clasp for four days in a row.
Two: You can only earn each kind in one zone in the game. Meaning, you can only earn one kind at a time, and you will be stuck doing the same content over and over. You could live in Elsweyr for months trying to earn the Sand you need for one build. You cannot incidentally earn style materials for furnishings passively by doing all kinds of content all over the place and incidentally have enough to make a build. You will *have* to specialise and limit yourself to progress.
It seems like Zenimax perhaps thinks people are mainly doing zone dailies for zone gear or an achievement or for the chance of zone motifs, and the style materials are just icing on the cake. We don't know the actual chances of deconning a piece of gear into a style material. That is not information Zenimax has released to players, presumably because they think we are better off not knowing. Some style materials can't be deconned from equipment (Culanda Lacquer, anyone?) If you sit down and try to grind out equipment to decon even knowing that you might decon literally nothing for hours of grinding, you will have to contend with a hard cooldown on drops from delve bosses and public dungeon bosses, or the 5 minute respawn timer of world bosses. A minute of activity for five minutes of staring blankly, doing nothing. That's not playing the game. That is dead time.
The reason we are particularly sensitive to the suicide murder wolves is that it is another tax on our time and attention that *does not further our goal,* when we already have *no dedicated way to work towards those goals.*
You can spend an hour trying to grind world bosses, only spend 12 minutes of that time doing content, get at best 12 drops, and those drops then can turn into 0 style materials. Or if you generously assume there is a 50% chance of getting a style material (a number you have no reason to believe,) you come out of that hour with six style materials. Which can be somewhere between six to three furnishings. When the smallest build can now use 150 furnishings. That's not feasible for anyone, no matter a casual player who may only have about an hour and a half to play a night. Not to mention farming materials from harvesting nodes *usually* doesn't give you furnishing materials. Again, as if farming for housing is an incidental reward compared to everyone's passion, just getting some normal wood, probably for crafting dailies. You might run out of that 10k sitting in your ESO+ bag, you know?
If you want to sit down and grind out the hundreds of style materials a single build could easily take, there is no good way to do that. That is the overriding reason people say not to bother trying, and to just earn gold and buy what you need with that. Your time is more efficiently and less frustratingly used that way. And that sucks. No other piece of content in the game has an absence of dedicated activities that rewards you with what you need to do the activity. If you PVP, you have dedicated content in the form of Imperial City, Cyrodiil, and Battlegrounds. Doing PVP will get you PVP gear, rank up your alliance skill lines, rank up your normal skills and skill lines, level you up, grant you skill points you can use to buy skills for PVP, and give you AP you can then use to buy more PVP gear or turn into gold, or PVP consumables, or earn PVP achievements. If you are serious about PVE, you have dedicated dungeons and trials in various difficulties to suit your needs. Doing dungeons and trials earns you gear that makes you better at PVE, gets you skill points you can use to buy abilities you can use to PVE better, ranks up your undaunted and guild and normal skills and skill lines, levels you up, gives you gold, gives you achievements with cosmetics and such. The rewards for doing the activities you want to do feed back on themselves to enable you to do even more and even better. The dedicated PVPer or PVEer can just do the thing they want to do and spend all their time doing it, never having to cut a random bear a wide berth on their way to their objectives. At least the trash mobs in a dungeon are *part of the dungeon* and killing them *advances the dungeon to completion.*
Meanwhile, we can't even get furnishing materials from surveys. Surveys that only exist to reward crafters for crafting, when crafting exists largely in service of housing. We are, if anything, actively punished for trying to farm as a dedicated activity in service of decorating. Doing PVP to earn gold is a better enabler of decorating than harvesting material nodes and doing zone dailies.
I *would* spend an hour doing a dungeon to get, say, 60 heartwood and no other rewards. For the record. I would grind Skywatch for hours every day if the mobs had a decent chance of dropping Mundane Runes. I have friends who won't get into housing because there is no meaningful method to work towards it as a goal.
Zenimax doesn't even think furnishing materials, style or otherwise, are worth putting in their new battle pass system.
The suicide murder wolves don't enhance my experience of playing the game. It's not fun to have to trip over trash that disables my mails, my ability to teleport, my ability to mount, and my ability to harvest while going from point A to point B. The wolves don't give amazing experience when killed. They don't have amazing drops. They don't make the game world feel more real and alive -- quite the opposite, because as @Arunei accurately points out, wolves don't behave that way. Nothing living does, because it's so ridiculously idiotic, anything that tried would be surely wiped out. I am not compelled by the argument the game world would be empty without trash mobs littering the zones. We've played Skyrim. The mob density in Skyrim is much lower, and the game is better for that. It allows a player to take in the game world without annoyance or interruption. I wouldn't want to teleport around as much if there were fewer hostile overworld enemies. I play Skyrim without fast travel exclusively. I would feel the world was richer and more interesting because I could dedicate my attention to appreciating it, instead of on avoiding the little red dots on my compass.
The problem with style materials used in decoration, I think, is twofold.
One: No activity in game seems to be specifically focused on their acquisition as the main reward and the actual point of the activity. The acquisition of style materials feels incidental to whatever task you are doing. The most reliable way to earn them, doing dailies, isn't even equally reliable across the game -- I stopped doing Blackwood dailies after not earning a single Ivory Brigade Clasp for four days in a row.
Two: You can only earn each kind in one zone in the game. Meaning, you can only earn one kind at a time, and you will be stuck doing the same content over and over. You could live in Elsweyr for months trying to earn the Sand you need for one build. You cannot incidentally earn style materials for furnishings passively by doing all kinds of content all over the place and incidentally have enough to make a build. You will *have* to specialise and limit yourself to progress.
It seems like Zenimax perhaps thinks people are mainly doing zone dailies for zone gear or an achievement or for the chance of zone motifs, and the style materials are just icing on the cake. We don't know the actual chances of deconning a piece of gear into a style material. That is not information Zenimax has released to players, presumably because they think we are better off not knowing. Some style materials can't be deconned from equipment (Culanda Lacquer, anyone?) If you sit down and try to grind out equipment to decon even knowing that you might decon literally nothing for hours of grinding, you will have to contend with a hard cooldown on drops from delve bosses and public dungeon bosses, or the 5 minute respawn timer of world bosses. A minute of activity for five minutes of staring blankly, doing nothing. That's not playing the game. That is dead time.
The reason we are particularly sensitive to the suicide murder wolves is that it is another tax on our time and attention that *does not further our goal,* when we already have *no dedicated way to work towards those goals.*
You can spend an hour trying to grind world bosses, only spend 12 minutes of that time doing content, get at best 12 drops, and those drops then can turn into 0 style materials. Or if you generously assume there is a 50% chance of getting a style material (a number you have no reason to believe,) you come out of that hour with six style materials. Which can be somewhere between six to three furnishings. When the smallest build can now use 150 furnishings. That's not feasible for anyone, no matter a casual player who may only have about an hour and a half to play a night. Not to mention farming materials from harvesting nodes *usually* doesn't give you furnishing materials. Again, as if farming for housing is an incidental reward compared to everyone's passion, just getting some normal wood, probably for crafting dailies. You might run out of that 10k sitting in your ESO+ bag, you know?
If you want to sit down and grind out the hundreds of style materials a single build could easily take, there is no good way to do that. That is the overriding reason people say not to bother trying, and to just earn gold and buy what you need with that. Your time is more efficiently and less frustratingly used that way. And that sucks. No other piece of content in the game has an absence of dedicated activities that rewards you with what you need to do the activity. If you PVP, you have dedicated content in the form of Imperial City, Cyrodiil, and Battlegrounds. Doing PVP will get you PVP gear, rank up your alliance skill lines, rank up your normal skills and skill lines, level you up, grant you skill points you can use to buy skills for PVP, and give you AP you can then use to buy more PVP gear or turn into gold, or PVP consumables, or earn PVP achievements. If you are serious about PVE, you have dedicated dungeons and trials in various difficulties to suit your needs. Doing dungeons and trials earns you gear that makes you better at PVE, gets you skill points you can use to buy abilities you can use to PVE better, ranks up your undaunted and guild and normal skills and skill lines, levels you up, gives you gold, gives you achievements with cosmetics and such. The rewards for doing the activities you want to do feed back on themselves to enable you to do even more and even better. The dedicated PVPer or PVEer can just do the thing they want to do and spend all their time doing it, never having to cut a random bear a wide berth on their way to their objectives. At least the trash mobs in a dungeon are *part of the dungeon* and killing them *advances the dungeon to completion.*
Meanwhile, we can't even get furnishing materials from surveys. Surveys that only exist to reward crafters for crafting, when crafting exists largely in service of housing. We are, if anything, actively punished for trying to farm as a dedicated activity in service of decorating. Doing PVP to earn gold is a better enabler of decorating than harvesting material nodes and doing zone dailies.
I *would* spend an hour doing a dungeon to get, say, 60 heartwood and no other rewards. For the record. I would grind Skywatch for hours every day if the mobs had a decent chance of dropping Mundane Runes. I have friends who won't get into housing because there is no meaningful method to work towards it as a goal.
Zenimax doesn't even think furnishing materials, style or otherwise, are worth putting in their new battle pass system.
xencthlu
9
Re: Official Discussion Thread for "Tamriel Tomes Season Zero Developer Update"
Why oh why are you making this so complicated. If you don't want us to hoard tome points just add a final bonus page with rewards that can be claimed infinitely. Could be anything from tri pots to any of the many many currencies already in game. Then I can choose to spend my points on what will be useful for me. I don't want you to auto claim stuff I've already chosen not to claim. That just makes me want to stop engaging with the whole tome as soon as I've claimed the last thing of interest. Which this season is page 4!
madintheed
21
Re: What will you Vestigitize first?
Nothing. I'm not one of the folks in the multiple forum posts that were asking for this feature.
I am curious to see how many new/returning/existing players use this feature, since it seemed to me that there were many people asking for it.
I am curious to see how many new/returning/existing players use this feature, since it seemed to me that there were many people asking for it.
Ingenon
5
Re: Season Zero: Dawn and Dusk Is Now Live
allochthons wrote: »Here's my math. I only counted for the Free Tier, for simplicity, because I didn't have time, and I don't intend to buy the Premium or Premium +.I’ve seen 16k quoted here on the forums, but Alcast lists just 15.2k for the free track, close to 16k for Premium, and just over 31k for both. I need to count it myself.
Spoilered for space reasons:This is accurate, as far as I understand.But where are you seeing that buying Premium gives you any extra points? I see only more opportunities to spend points.
Buying the “+ Bonus” tier gives you 2 caches of 2k TP each — which you can, but are not required, to spend on that Tome.
Neither tier forces extra points on you.
Spoilered for space reasons:(source: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/guides/tamrieltomes)
My wording was a bit sloppy, and that caused some confusion. I'm sorry. The context here, though, is that people opened the caches without knowing they expired. So I was working under the assumption that the Premium + players would also open their caches, thus exacerbating the problem. However, since I didn't count up the Premium + tome point costs, I should not have mentioned the paid tiers.
I didn't follow your Premium and Premium + math, because I haven't looked into it, and my brain is a bit fuzzy today. (Too much Artemis 2!)
But on the Free Tier, every page costs 2K to unlock, correct? (I'm asking, since I have already earned some TP, my screen wasn't clear, so I did some quick math.)
12 pages (including bonus pages), 1 is auto-unlocked = 11 x 2K = 22K tome points needed to gain access to all the rewards.
Thanks for the math! Just added it myself (didn't see your post - nice spreadsheet!), and yes, Alcast (or whoever posted as Alcast) is missing 800 points from somewhere.
I got 15,990 for the free track too.
Every page except the last requires 2k. Per the UI, both bonus pages unlock at 20k. This is unusual, and maybe it's part of why they named them separately.
So 20k to unlock everything, less the 15,990 spent on the items, then carry over 2,000 to next season = 2,010 completely lost.
They'll have to figure out this cache issue. I'm not going to touch mine until the end of the season.
Hope you're enjoying Artemis Two!
Re: Werewolf Update From The Combat Refresh Team
I appreciate the changes. The Van Helsing Werewolf Vibes going on here. 
Re: Werewolf Update From The Combat Refresh Team
Elvenheart wrote: »Maybe it’s just me, but the hair on the head looks too much like a mohawk. Does any of the new skills styles belt out a snippet of “Achy Breaky Heart” when you use them?
I'm glad other players are having the same thoughts about the hair on the head. Definitely needs to be adjusted during the pts cycle. 🐺
Re: Werewolf Update From The Combat Refresh Team
@ZOS_Erin
Will PvE encounters like March of Sacrifices or the Lord Hollowjack boss fight during the Witches Festival be modified to allow Werewolves who are Prowling to function like players who are stealthed?
It's particularly frustrating in March of Sacrifices when you can't interact with the hunting wisps in Werewolf form unless you do the side content, which itself requires you to interact with the hunting wisps.
Please make start-to-finish Werewolf only runs of March of Sacrifices possible!
Will PvE encounters like March of Sacrifices or the Lord Hollowjack boss fight during the Witches Festival be modified to allow Werewolves who are Prowling to function like players who are stealthed?
It's particularly frustrating in March of Sacrifices when you can't interact with the hunting wisps in Werewolf form unless you do the side content, which itself requires you to interact with the hunting wisps.
Please make start-to-finish Werewolf only runs of March of Sacrifices possible!
Erickson9610
11