Best Of
Re: "WW is too OP" debate from WW Feedback Thread
I ask more or less because if 6k sustained DPS is still considered too high, then what would people claiming WW is too strong consider as 'normal' or 'acceptable' damage before they feel WW isn't OP anymore? It went from 10k is too strong to 6k also still being too strong.
6k DPS is the high end of what is possible on the live server. This is achieved by builds using things like rele or pyreband, by players who are very good and maintaining their weaving and not wasting any GCDS, keeping all their buffs and debuffs up as close to perfect as possible, etc. These setups are typically paper-thin as well, and usually only function well within 1v1s. This is not some easy number to hit that is common to see. It is also not something that you can typically survive without specifically building to do so - slotting purges or additional heal over times, running super high mitigation, sets like wyrd/maras, etc.
I could accept 6k dps as being the high end of what a werewolf is capable of, assuming they're running a full damage setup like what we showed in all of the testing footage & cmx's within the other thread. Even though these WWs have 40k HP and are doing obscene healing from the multiple health scaling heals while remaining fully offensive, 6k DPS would still be acceptable to me since it'd be manageable if you played extremely well, and you'd be able to burst them back with the relatively low resistances they have.
But we are not just looking at 6k dps. Pelican demonstrated as high as 12.8k DPS in his video, with a variety of different sets including relequen, savage werewolf, deadlands demolisher, etc. Often sustaining between 8-10k DPS against very skilled players who built specifically to try to survive his setup. He's since reached 14k DPS in one duel. The number is continuing to escalate as more setups are tested and people gain familiarity with the mechanics. When someone is doing that much damage to you, if you stop blocking/healing/kiting for just 1-2 seconds, you instantly die. There is no surviving it, there is no outplaying it.
People keep saying that somehow we are still lacking context, and at this point I just don't have the patience to continue arguing. Check my comment history if you care to, there is multiple CMX posts straight from pelican himself, one or more of which include his list of buffs that shows his sets and the breakdown of his damage. Between those posts and the 18 minute long video consisting of 5-20 second long duel clips versus a variety of different builds/classes/skill level players, I think there is more than enough to demonstrate exactly why we're suggesting why it may be good to dial things back just a bit.Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?
There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.
Seems a little insane to me.
This was the first 'nerf werewolf' comment (that I saw, skimming) that came in and happened to include no information. Later came a CMX with no information on person skills/gear/playstyle and opponent skills/gear/playstyle. Beyond this, and MUCH later, after multiple 'please for proof' requests- came the more-or-less-the-same-style (no real evidence) dueling anyone and everyone in PTS Riften video with once again limited or no information.
This was my comment, and was genuinely just a question that caused a dozen people to completely spiral over something they themselves had not tested whatsoever. Ironically, it seems several of those parties have since shifted their stance to "well it seems class mastery passives are the real core of the issue".
At this point though, I don't really know what would qualify as "real evidence" to you. What was provided was probably 10+ hours of PTS duels across a variety of setups which included an on screen DPS meter, broken down into an 18 minute video, and multiple CMX pages showing the damage breakdowns as well as one with pelican's buffs visible - showing exactly the gear that he'd been using and his class mastery passives.
Meanwhile this whole time, all I've seen in return is constant remarks of "this doesn't suffice" and "this lacks context" from people who haven't provided a single thing of substance to substantiate their own claims.
I'm not going to continue arguing about this. I think there is more than enough for objective parties to sort through and decide for themselves what would be the correct path moving forward. Hopefully we'll hear from the team in advance of whatever they're planning to do/not do in the coming weeks, so a healthier conversation can be had there.
AFAIK I'm the only other WW that can beat/trade wins with Pelican consistently on the PTS. His build's insane damage relies on landing LAs consistently on a melee build with no snares or immobilizes. His DPS drops down to like 6k if you can pressure him back, force him to play defensively, or dodge roll and create distance. If we slot Cleansing Revival the duels just stalemate until one of us makes a mistake or dies to break free bug because WW doesn't have any burst damage in its kit to finish off your opponents like other pressure builds.
Werewolf’s win condition is either overwhelm your opponents healing or run them out of resources, and it looks like ZOS is giving everyone infinite sustain so that is not going to be an option for long. The DPS needs to be higher than normal because we have no way to close out a fight other than to land a fear when someone is low and hope they don't have a cleanse. Our main 200% execute scaling spamable is averaging ~4.5k Damage when you combine both hits on Pelicans build.
Also IMO the vast majority of the issue is coming from the insane sustain and large amount of healing coming from the Conservation of Energy sorc mastery. Its allowing us to run 0 sustain and do silly things like use armor pots, spam roll dodge, bash weave every ability, etc. This all heavily contributes to the power of WW and enables us to go full offensive with no drawbacks. When we disabled the masteries we started losing to sorcs and DKs, even a warden came close.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Whitestrake's Mayhem
Surely this means all sources of trade bars will be removed from PvE as well, yes? As a PvPer I hate having to do dungeons for the Undaunted event for my event tickets trade bars. When can we expect the complete removal of that? Also when will we get Vengeance PvE? Since Vengeance is so much fun, I want that fun in trials, overland and the upcoming Nightmarket, so I can play this game without having to get a build at all. /sarcasm
PvPers don't care about bonus AP and bonus Telvar. You can't buy any worthwhile goodies with those anyway. We care about new people coming into Cyrodiil because that's new people to fight. We care about performance being better during Whitestrakes because more server resources are being allocated there for the duration of the event. That's what makes it fun. If PvP is frustrating for new players (or whatever is the reason you are doing this), look into addressing that instead.
For example, Impenetrable acts as a massive barrier to entry for PvP. New players don't know what it is or how important it is in PvP just from reading its description and as a result they get blown up. And because they get blown up without even as much of a fighting chance, they stop bothering with PvP and don't even try to get better. That's something frustrating that's worth addressing. Not this nonsense.
PvP so far has been the only thing where I think the direction that the game is headed in has not improved since the new efforts for improved communication. Please look into why that is and take the appropriate measures.
PvPers don't care about bonus AP and bonus Telvar. You can't buy any worthwhile goodies with those anyway. We care about new people coming into Cyrodiil because that's new people to fight. We care about performance being better during Whitestrakes because more server resources are being allocated there for the duration of the event. That's what makes it fun. If PvP is frustrating for new players (or whatever is the reason you are doing this), look into addressing that instead.
For example, Impenetrable acts as a massive barrier to entry for PvP. New players don't know what it is or how important it is in PvP just from reading its description and as a result they get blown up. And because they get blown up without even as much of a fighting chance, they stop bothering with PvP and don't even try to get better. That's something frustrating that's worth addressing. Not this nonsense.
PvP so far has been the only thing where I think the direction that the game is headed in has not improved since the new efforts for improved communication. Please look into why that is and take the appropriate measures.
Re: Nevermind
I am depressed.
Depressed at how much people don't seem to understand that balance is important, and how much people seem to dismiss genuine concerns over balance by moving goalposts, dismissing arguments if they come from a place of concern over PvP, and acting like the back and forth of balance only ever goes one way with PvP always being the reason things are changed (when it absolutely and emphatically does not).
Depressed at how much people don't seem to understand that balance is important, and how much people seem to dismiss genuine concerns over balance by moving goalposts, dismissing arguments if they come from a place of concern over PvP, and acting like the back and forth of balance only ever goes one way with PvP always being the reason things are changed (when it absolutely and emphatically does not).
So ZOS finally admits that they have a strong pro stance on The Ebonheart Pact?
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I knew all this time that you guys were pro EP..
This is disgusting. Why did I get this nasty mail via game with this abominating subject?
Aldmeri Dominion all the way! For the QUEEN!
Good to know that the reason why EP won the campaign is that they were carried by ZOS :
Team Purple exists for a reason.. and that is because DC and EP can't defeat us without teaming up! AD for LIFE! AD forever! May AD bring terror to our foes!
This is disgusting. Why did I get this nasty mail via game with this abominating subject?
Aldmeri Dominion all the way! For the QUEEN!
Good to know that the reason why EP won the campaign is that they were carried by ZOS :
Team Purple exists for a reason.. and that is because DC and EP can't defeat us without teaming up! AD for LIFE! AD forever! May AD bring terror to our foes!
RaikaNA
7
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Albert is juiced up on copium with vengeance in full swing.
FENGRUSH
12
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
During its last appearance on PCNA, Vengeance suffered the same issue that plagued and ultimately defeated no proc PVP: As soon as the populations reach a certain level of imbalance, it becomes impossible to play against massive numbers as an underdog.
Kartalin
6
Re: Inventory is Excessive Micro-Management
agelonestar wrote: »The inventory issue is a key reason people quit the game. It literally drives people away.
I know this from experience. Ive had friends get bored of the game from it. It’s mentally taxing for new players.
I’m not sure why anybody above is advocating against solutions.
Also, nobody is expecting a full craft bag for free. But having a 25 or 50 max stack size bag would alleviate a lot of pressure from all the items which we have less than 25.
I use ESO+. I just want my friends to stop getting chased away from the game because of this. It’s a really bad reason to lose so many players.
Re: Inventory is Excessive Micro-Management
One of the reasons I stopped playing the game.
A sub is fine if you play the game regularly and a fair amount, years ago I used to sub to RIft, LOTRO, etc, but I mostly played ESO sporadically and even when playing it, there would be times I would barely touch it for 3 or 4 weeks. A sub simply does not fit the way I played ESO.
Other games give more flexible options like a limited crafting item inventory that you can then upgrade the capacity in their equivalent of the Crown Store.
I presume they make more money out of people who will pay the sub for the crafting inventory, than people like me who won't, but would buy some inventory upgrades (plus the chapters, DLC, crowns for character slots, etc I used to spend money on when I played).
A sub is fine if you play the game regularly and a fair amount, years ago I used to sub to RIft, LOTRO, etc, but I mostly played ESO sporadically and even when playing it, there would be times I would barely touch it for 3 or 4 weeks. A sub simply does not fit the way I played ESO.
Other games give more flexible options like a limited crafting item inventory that you can then upgrade the capacity in their equivalent of the Crown Store.
I presume they make more money out of people who will pay the sub for the crafting inventory, than people like me who won't, but would buy some inventory upgrades (plus the chapters, DLC, crowns for character slots, etc I used to spend money on when I played).
Sylosi
5