Maitsukas wrote: »

If they would stop doing these tests (as the very vocal anti-Vengeance players demand it), what should ZOS be doing instead? If the answer is nothing, then you've pretty much doomed Cyrodiil for everyone.

Just stop taking away normal Cyrodiil, it’s not a hard concept. They have to though cause participation in Vengeance is abysmal when they run side by side.

I suspect it won't be used all that much even by those that asked for it. And I don't think it will be used for questing, but rather just toggled on for world bosses, etc..

I wish the points didn't vary as much but the tasks themselves have a good mix.

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

This will drive regular PvPers away during peak hours as they will have nothing to do if GH is pop-locked.

Oh no, like 12 guys are gonna log out, how will the game survive.

A lot more than that will try Vengeance and actually like it, or at least find it "good enough" for waiting in queue. There are a significant number of players who log into GH because it's the only game in town, not because they love ball groups, proc sets, and one shots.

Madarc wrote: »

Hmm,,,, the reactions here range from enthusiastic approval to deep regret, though I’ve also come across players who actually describe the changes as “the worst update in ESO’s history.”

I don’t entirely agree with that, but I’m not thrilled either. I’m more afraid that this—or rather, the DK—is just the beginning of yet another never-ending “balancing” and “improvement” frenzy.

Sometimes it’s better to just leave things that have proven themselves over the years, as they were.
There are currently much more important “areas for improvement” that have opened up for the developers.
just my2cent

From what I'm seeing, it actually seems like the majority agree that the DK should be left alone. 4 people out of probably a hundred calling for nerfs isn't what I would call both enthusiastic approval and deep regret. Its more enthusiastic approval.

The support for the DK speaks for itself. By democracy, people like the route the devs are taking. You can even look at the approval through likes and awesomes on posts supporting the new DK.

I think alot of the complaints about power differences are valid, but they are misdirected and often not taking into account anything besides short-sighted nerf-buff cycles, that everyone and their mother is exhausted from experiencing time and time again in this game for the past decade.

Just let the *** unfold, because at the end of the day, this has kinda always been ESO's weak point, the cycling of nerfs and buffs, that often left some classes unusable for half a year at some points in the past(try using sorcerers before subclassing came out in anything besides a niche pvp use case, it was awful)

The consensus though is clearly very positive reactions to DK. The only negative ones im seeing are people who come from PvP, whom, btw, has always experienced the most imbalanced environment compared to PvE. They could alleviate that problem by making PvP separate instances instead of connecting it with PvE.... you know, something like Vengeance.

Fate needs you proxy.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Even if a bear does 1000 percent damage, it will not be difficult. As it stands now, I cannot even use my second skill before they are dead. And that is in all heavy, no armor sets, no cp, and sword and shield....

I still don't understand why being strong and powerful is a bad thing but I like it that way.

ESO takes place 1000 years before the events of Skyrim. So yes the city of Winterhold is currently still flourishing and hasn't been devastated by any natural disasters. It was about 80 years before Skyrim that Winterhold was destroyed. So not even remotely close to the time of ESO.

Aliyavana wrote: »

I really hope we see Urag

Unfortunately Urag was not 1000 (at most 600-800) years old in Skyrim. I know he was old, but not THAT old. So no, we will not be seeing him in ESO. There will be another liberation though I'm sure.

Urag although has been thought to have been born at the earliest the tail end of the second era, we are still in the early/middle of it, so a couple centuries off from seeing him.

BretonMage wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.

If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real. I mean, if games are "just games", what's the point of feeling moved by the characters of Baldur's Gate or Expedition 33? Or, for that matter, Romeo and Juliet?

Not saying I'd actually condemn the players who kill innocents in the game, but it's not pleasant to see either.

That whole "people with functioning empathy" line is a hell of a statement, because it implies people who kill non-living things in a game somehow lack it. I'm one of the most empathatic people I know, I cry super easily when others are upset or during sad scenes in games or movies. I abhor real-world violence and it gets me REALLY mad when I hear about things like animals or people being abused or killed. But there is a big difference between getting emotionally attached to characters and getting emotionally attached to Random NPC Animal #5,301.

I'm not going to dictate how you play your game, and honestly, if I want to feel emotions like pity or compassion for those in a fictional fantasy universe created to seem life-like, then I think I have that freedom to do so. That's one of the great things about games, you have a choice to relate to it in the way you want. So just as you can choose to treat these animals as mere pixels, so too can I choose to see Tamriel as a living, breathing world.

Except...they AREN'T created to seem life-like. They walk back and forth infinitely on a coded path, do coded actions like occasionally like fighting another or sitting, they don't eat, procreate, drink, expel waste, and so on.

Like someone else said, you can feel a certain way about things but there comes a point where it's taken to extremes. But the thing I most have a problem with is your implication that people who treat the game as a game and nothing more somehow lack "functional empathy".

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Dogs and cats aren't killable because ESO is based in the United States, where those animals are pets and NOT game or livestock animals. But all the animals you CAN kill? They are actually hunted irl (the ones that exist irl anyway) for food and other things, or are livestock animals that are raised as food or for leather, milk, and so on. Pigs, goats, squirrels, rabbits, elk, deer, etc are all animals that get hunted or raised as livestock.

You say, "Cats and dogs are pets, so it's only right that they're unkillable." But in this game, you can kill people... what's the logic?
Actually, there's no logic.
I'm not shocked by killing people; in fact, I do it often with my nightblade.
It's an action that requires a certain skill, so it makes sense in a game.
I kill mudcrabs because they give me chitin, but these are animals that have a health line on their heads and, even if weak, they defend themselves in a certain way and attack if attacked.
But killing animals with 1 hp, which mostly don't give anything I already have tons of in my infinite bag, just for the fun of watching them moan and blow up... disgusts me. And I'm annoyed that ZOS encourages it.
In fact, ZOS should provide a toggle so that anyone who wants to can avoid inadvertently killing them, as well as a "prevent attacking innocents" feature.
This game has repeatedly demonstrated its consideration for the rights of minorities.
I am part of a minority, of which I am proud.
The minority of those who have total respect for animals and don't even eat them, obviously.
I regret that the sensibilities of this minority are not protected by ZOS like other minorities worthy of equal respect.

What are you talking about, no logic? There IS logic, even if you don't like it or agree with it. Whether it's people or animals, it's still A GAME. Neither real people nor real animals are being harmed in any way.

On top of that, you're making COMPLETELY and frankly inappropriate claims that people "do it for fun" or want to "hear them moan". You're 100% projecting real-life morals to, yet again, a video game. You're acting like people are doing this becuase they want to geninuely harm animals or something. By that logic, I guess that means people who play evil characters must condone and want to do the things their characters do?

Sure, ZOS can make it that "Prevent Attacking Innocents" applies to critters, but that would probably annoy people more than it wouldn't if they wanted to not attack people but then had to turn it off to farm critters. The most use it would get is so people didn't drop their Ult on a random rabbit or something while fighting. And they could make a separate toggle for it, sure, but it's unlikely they would because who even knows what kind of coding that would look like.

Finally, stop bringing up minorities. They have no place in this conversation and trying to shoehorn them in is comparing apples to tires. You aren't a "minority" because you don't like that critters can be killed and are bothered by it. Trying to use them to prop up your argument is NOT a good look.

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

I trusted them when they said Vengeance was a test, but it is clear now that they intend to just add it as a separate mode to further split the community and "teach" people how to PvP in a way that doesn't apply outside that one specific gamemode...

I don’t get this “splitting the community” argument. Isn’t the community already split between multiple Cyro campaigns (mostly GH and BR nowadays), IC and BGs? Not to mention the split created by the removal of no-proc and the current state of GH that is driving players away?
Also judging by these forums, 99% of PvPers will stay in GH and Vengeance will be a PvEers’ (no skill zerglings and newbies) haven so again, what splitting of the PvP community. This argument doesn’t make sense.