Yudo wrote: »

We worked on it for so long, if we do not release it we will get fired.

The code rewrite would like a word.

We worked on it for so long, if we do not release it we will get fired.

Sarannah wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

You know exactly how bad liked Vengeance is by a big chunk of the pvp community, perhaps the majority but still pushing this path, is outragous

This may actually be a good thing for PvP! (scenario 1)
Because if grey host keeps the same PvP population as now(those who dislike vengeance as multiple players are stating) while running parallel with vengeance with a healthy population, it means the vengeance campaign was successful in attracting many more PvE players into PvP. Tripling the PvP population, assuming vengeance and grey host are both healthy. Which in turn could benefit the entire PvP population as a whole, including grey host.

Why does it seem the PvP community is against running vengeance parallel to grey host, if as stated, PvPers would stay on grey host anyways? This seems like a fear that grey host would die, basically saying that even many of the players in grey host don't actually want to be in grey host.

Really don't understand why PvP players who feel grey host is the only worthwhile PvP are worried about a parallel running vengeance campaign, because if grey host players go to vengeance that means they didn't want to be in grey host anyways. More PvP options for everyone.

PS: Two different types of Cyrodiil pvp running at the same time, seems like a good thing to me. Especially if both have a healthy player population.

@Sarannah because PvP is only fun when other players are also playing. I prefer Ravenwatch, but if nobody is in Ravenwatch, then Ravenwatch is a dead campaign and not fun. So I'm playing in Gray Host, even though I'd really prefer being in Ravenwatch. This familiar dynamic between Ravenwatch and Gray Host will apply to Vengeance vs Gray Host too. If all the casual PvPers (zerglings) log into Vengeance instead because they can zerg without the fear of some bomb build or an experienced group decimating them, then Gray Host population will suffer, wither and die. This wouldn't be an issue if the PvP population as a whole is big enough to keep all campaigns at population cap for most of the day - but that's not the case anymore. Introducing Vengeance parallel to Gray Host risks killing Gray Host entirely.
So why is that a bad thing? Because people will quit the game over it. Vengeance isn't Ravenwatch. This is a downward spiral, because Vengeance doesn't give you the same opportunity of mastery that regular PvP does. In Gray Host/Ravenwatch you can still learn to play your build better, change your set (or CP) in new ways to try and get an edge over others. There is mastery involved in that, and this self-improvement aspect is at the core of what many PvPers enjoy about PvP in the first place - challenge and competition. There is no challenge, less competition and less mastery involved in a dumbed down version of PvP, where everyone's build is the same and all skills deal "standard damage". That's why adding Vengeance is not the same and that's why people reject the very idea of it.

I said it once and I will say it again.

If the hardware cannot handle the software, do not downgrade the software, upgrade the hardware.

Vengeance kills all the flare that ESO PvP has, it's as simple as that.

Zama666 wrote: »

um...lag....ping...
You know those issues that Vengeance was supposed to help us with

I'm glad vengeance didn't end up reducing lag or increasing performance in any noteworthy degree. Vengeance mode is horrible in every way. ZOS shouldn't be putting any more dev time into it.

I have not logged into the forums in years but felt obligated to say something after reading this deeply disappointing post.

I have been an avid PvPer in this game since 2014. I've sunken thousands and thousands of hours into Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, duels, my PvP guilds, etc.

I was incredibly put off by last year's changes to Battlegrounds. They were incredibly half-baked and reeked of a lack of consultation with your core PvP base. 4v4 is absolutely horrendous from a competition standpoint as the vast majority of the time one team crushes the other, leading to matches that feel like a chore, particularly when somebody on the losing team decides they don't even want to jump out of their safezone because they're getting eviscerated so badly. 4v4v4 did not have this problem because a worse team still had an opportunity to win a match through strategy. And 8v8 is just a nonsensical Mario Party button-smashing fest that clearly caters to the lowest common denominator. I played many, many of these Battlegrounds matches hoping that I'd eventually see the value of the changes and enjoy it more, but that never happened, and eventually I just lost interest in playing something that was clearly made by people who don't PvP anywhere near as much as I do.

Still, thankfully, I had Cyrodiil. I've had Cyrodiil for over a decade now, and it continues to be a source of tons of enjoyment for me, even with all the extensive failures on the part of the dev team to give it the proper attention it deserves for many, many years. When Vengeance was first announced I thought it was gimmicky but I'd try it out. It was gimmicky. I had a little bit of fun but ultimately got super bored because of how restrictive the ruleset is.

If I wanted to play Kits PvP I'd go log back on a Minecraft server and pick a kit with a sword! Woopee!

This is not and never has been the allure of ESO PvP, what keeps the same players like myself coming back year after year after year after year after year.

I cannot believe that it's even on the table to remove all existing Cyrodiil campaigns and only have a Vengeance campaign as the singular option. Frankly, I can't even believe the "good" option involves removing every campaign other than Gray Host. Instead of constantly trying to shuttle your dwindling PvP player base into smaller and smaller arenas, maybe consider talking to those few PvPers who are still here after a decade to figure out how to improve the existing Cyrodiil playset. Just to reiterate: Scenario 2 is utterly ridiculous and shouldn't even be on the table. And Scenario 1 is bad. If you wanna cut out Ravenwatch and Icereach due to lack of use, fine, whatever. But cutting us down to a single normal Cyrodiil campaign is a horrible idea.

Clearly the devs don't even care, but I feel obligated as somebody who has been a dedicated Cyrodiil player for 11 years and has earned hundreds of millions of alliance points, taken hundreds of thousands of objectives, killed hundreds of thousands of players: if you remove everything but Vengeance, I will quit. When other players have quit due to the other horrendous changes to PvP over the past couple years, I thought they were overreacting. But if you don't even provide us with the option to continue to participate in Cyrodiil as it currently exists, I'm done with ESO PvP, and maybe ESO altogether.

11 years.

Thanks.