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Re: Community Update – Vengeance Testing & Cyrodiil
SpiritKitten wrote: »Okay so a lot of comments are saying 'pvpers' hate Vengeance. Well, they are not making Vengeance for pvpers. Don't y'all get that?
It is for PVErs, of which there are a lot, who love it. There are many more players like that than 'dedicated' pvpers. This game's design decisions always revolve around the largest player demographic- the casual gamer. And it's smart to. That's who pays the bills. It's a numbers game.
Vengeance is super fun for casual pvp.
They are going to let y'all hardcore pvpers enjoy your ball groups and other unbalanced ridiculousness in Grayhost. Be happy for that. Vengeance won't affect y'all at all. Unless of course...you secretly realize that a lot of Grayhosters actually want to leave for Vengeance?
I have played all sorts of pvp since DAoC. I have spent a lot of time in all the Cyro campaigns. Grayhost is a 50-car pileup wreck. And they just admitted they are not going to fix it. Let's be honest with ourselves. It's time to move on.
Bring on Vengeance!
@SpiritKitten Where is my vengeance version of trials? I want the same rewards, but I don't want to put in the effort of getting good at the game. They should make a trial that you can complete with a group of 12 random PvPers that grants you the exact same rewards as doing veteran hardmode trifecta trial runs. Bring on Vengeance trials!
This is the attitude of players that want Vengeance because real PvP is too tough for them. They just want to zerg and zerging is the only playstyle Vengeance enables. These players will obviously quit Gray Host, and I'm not blaming them for choosing the game mode most suited to their desires. I'm blaming ZOS for enabling this attitude and for downgrading the experience for the players that don't like Vengeance by splitting the population.
Sounds like you are in a ball group.
SpiritKitten
14
Re: Dont deactivate normal Cyrodiil or respectfully i will not play any title with a zenimax brand anymo
TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »So your only here for the optional versus mode?
I would prefer if ZOS just removed PvP, Cyrodiil has so much PvE potential.
So you're only here for the optional repetitive ai mode?
I would prefer it if zos made all instances open pvp instances, the zones have amazing PVP potential. So many pugs to farm.
Re: Vengeance ruleset for Dungeons/Etc.
That’s off topic, this is about lag and how vengeance would fix lag in PvE just like it will in Cyrodiil. I remember years ago we tried Maw but the final boss was too laggy to finish. Vengeance pve would fix that.
In turn, many more players could experience these parts of the game.
Yes sir, my apologies.
Perhaps when Orsinium crashed every time we traveled there, a Vengeance answer could have worked splendid.
Re: Vengeance ruleset for Dungeons/Etc.
BardokRedSnow wrote: »Lmao now see, THIS is bait, but I agree.
Typically anything people disagree with on these forums can be considered bait. But you agree so you obviously understand where I’m coming from.
Yea, removing the main thing I do from the game and stripping all of its rpg elements and even remotely considering making it permanent because of a false positive derived from a community that has a chip on its shoulder because they're bad at pvp is beyond outrageous and is unacceptable.
Vengeance ruleset for Dungeons/Etc.
Hi there, I have a genuine question:
As I’ve seen how the Vengeance TEST campaign in Cyrodiil has solved all the issues with performance and provided entries into portions of the game that many people have struggled with,,,
could we expect to see some similar tests for PvE?
I personally don’t have the gear or time to build out a 100k+ DPS character or a great healer build that would be required for some of the newer content. It sure would be nice to be able to select a template and just queue up with that template build so I could finally feel relevant and enjoy these portions of the game that I’m currently distanced from.
Oh yea, and I regularly see lag spikes in dungeons or sometimes while gathering skyshards (maybe my mount is just too fast!). Surely this new ruleset could fix this since it fixed Cyrodiil.
I dont see why the PvP community gets access to this type of feature and DLC PvE players don’t.
Thank you.
As I’ve seen how the Vengeance TEST campaign in Cyrodiil has solved all the issues with performance and provided entries into portions of the game that many people have struggled with,,,
could we expect to see some similar tests for PvE?
I personally don’t have the gear or time to build out a 100k+ DPS character or a great healer build that would be required for some of the newer content. It sure would be nice to be able to select a template and just queue up with that template build so I could finally feel relevant and enjoy these portions of the game that I’m currently distanced from.
Oh yea, and I regularly see lag spikes in dungeons or sometimes while gathering skyshards (maybe my mount is just too fast!). Surely this new ruleset could fix this since it fixed Cyrodiil.
I dont see why the PvP community gets access to this type of feature and DLC PvE players don’t.
Thank you.
SneaK
35
Re: Community Update – Vengeance Testing & Cyrodiil
I can't say I am surprised to be reading this. Especially the unwillingness to even attempt to fix Gray Host speaks volumes. We've had performance tests before. The test that had cross-healing removed showed a clear performance improvement. We know the overabundance of cross-healing is part of the issue. Anyone who has duelled a bash build before knows that some builds can absolutely tank the performance.
You haven't even seriously attempted to disincentivise playstyles that negatively and disproportionally impact performance, and yet here you are, presenting us with an ultimatum only two options - Vengeance or Vengeance - when it is obvious that neither of these two options are what players want. "Play Vengeance or else!"
After years of punishment, lack of updates and generally being the punching bag and scapegoat of every balance discussion ever, the PvP community is already struggling. I'm sure you, ZOS, know better than all of us that the window of population reaching the cap has become shorter and shorter over time. And your best case scenario, your best solution, is to split the PvP playerbase?
Attempting Scenario 1 will inevitably result in Scenario 2 becoming reality, and Scenario 2 is the Scenario where people are quitting the game. I'm sure your midsized-PvP update, that you'll release soon(TM) is going to be so great, and won't get abandoned at all like Imperial City or even your current new Battlegrounds that you've already been neglecting. Forgive me for not being excited.
The underlying issue is this. PvP used to be able to support large scale battles. Abilities in this game used to be just as complex as they are now. Arguably they were even more complex in the past, considering the removal of certain functionality or the constant updates of recoding, presumably improving, abilities in the name of performance improvements some years ago. So now our technology is better than it was, the population is smaller than it was and our abilities are presumably a lighter load than they used to be. How can you stand here and attemp to sell us (literally) a version of Cyrodiil that is more dumbed down than at launch? Are we still in the Beta - nay - Alpha version of the game??
This is why I'm not recommending ESO to any of my friends.
You haven't even seriously attempted to disincentivise playstyles that negatively and disproportionally impact performance, and yet here you are, presenting us with an ultimatum only two options - Vengeance or Vengeance - when it is obvious that neither of these two options are what players want. "Play Vengeance or else!"
After years of punishment, lack of updates and generally being the punching bag and scapegoat of every balance discussion ever, the PvP community is already struggling. I'm sure you, ZOS, know better than all of us that the window of population reaching the cap has become shorter and shorter over time. And your best case scenario, your best solution, is to split the PvP playerbase?
Attempting Scenario 1 will inevitably result in Scenario 2 becoming reality, and Scenario 2 is the Scenario where people are quitting the game. I'm sure your midsized-PvP update, that you'll release soon(TM) is going to be so great, and won't get abandoned at all like Imperial City or even your current new Battlegrounds that you've already been neglecting. Forgive me for not being excited.
The underlying issue is this. PvP used to be able to support large scale battles. Abilities in this game used to be just as complex as they are now. Arguably they were even more complex in the past, considering the removal of certain functionality or the constant updates of recoding, presumably improving, abilities in the name of performance improvements some years ago. So now our technology is better than it was, the population is smaller than it was and our abilities are presumably a lighter load than they used to be. How can you stand here and attemp to sell us (literally) a version of Cyrodiil that is more dumbed down than at launch? Are we still in the Beta - nay - Alpha version of the game??
This is why I'm not recommending ESO to any of my friends.
Re: Community Update – Vengeance Testing & Cyrodiil
MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »I think i speak for a lot of people from the pvp community, when i say - if vengeance becomes permanently and you remove GH, im gone.
They don’t care. Timmy will buy ESO for 5$ in December, then Timmy will accidentally go to Vengeance to quest and submit a survey of all positive reviews cause he witnessed great battles and never died while in Vengeance, and the optional portion will read, “gathered sky shards in far far away lands, even hit a snipe attack on a enemy player from the top of a castle”.
SneaK
4
Re: BG queue needs to respect the healer role
if you're not running a healer in a premade then you're not really optimized. playing as a team, with everyone having their own role and playing selflessly is pretty rewarding. the healer provides extra buffs and allows the damage dealers to focus on dps rather than healing themselves, so they are by no means uselss. even queuing as randoms with 1 healer you can get close to that level of coordination, the other players will quickly recognize they don't have to focus as much on healing and can just focus on killing the other team.
i agree that the game should respect the healer role for bg queues, some people like playing set roles and not everyone prefers playing a self sustaining build. you don't want to queue for a bg and have 4 healers, while at the same time its more beneficial to have at least 1 healer.
funny how people hate playing as a team in an mmo.
i agree that the game should respect the healer role for bg queues, some people like playing set roles and not everyone prefers playing a self sustaining build. you don't want to queue for a bg and have 4 healers, while at the same time its more beneficial to have at least 1 healer.
funny how people hate playing as a team in an mmo.
Re: Vengeance ruleset for Dungeons/Etc.
While we’re at it, when can we side with the trial boss?
I would love to be able to team-kill a toxic raid lead without needing to drop a Worldshaper on their head.
Radiate77
10
Re: Community Update – Vengeance Testing & Cyrodiil
Why are the numbers on the graphs blurred out and made to be illegible?
I'd love to see an analysis of the people who participated in these surveys which apparently showed how much they preferred vengeance. I'd wager that the overwhelming majority of people who actually filled out these surveys are those who almost never step foot in cyrodiil, and likely will never step foot in cyrodiil even with the vengeance ruleset unless you provide some similar incentive like you did during the tests (double AP, golden pursuits, etc).
What I'm implying is that you're taking the opinions of non-PVP players, which seem to be in contrast to those of the vocal majority of actual PVP players, and re-designing the PVP environment to suit their needs rather than those of the die hard loyalist who have stuck with PVP all these years.
It is a shame to see. I'm interested to see if you address the elephant in the room during the upcoming part 3 of the PVP Q&A, which is the nature of ball groups and how stacking HOTS/Shields/bufff sets in that setting impact performance. It really feels like this is an issue that should have been addressed years ago to study it's impact on performance, rather than taking this sledgehammer approach that is vengeance.
Now, I am happy to hear about a new "mid size" pvp zone. This is something that has been requested for years now. However, we already have a zone that is beautifully designed and fills this exact niche - the imperial city and imperial city sewers. This area as a whole is the best designed open world PVP zone I've played in any game with a huge variety of terrains and environments, a mix of enemies to attract a wider crowd, etc. It's simply fallen out of popularity due to a lack of updates for years now. While I absolutely would not turn down receiving a new mid size PVP zone (with the normal "cyrodiil" rulesets!), I am not at all confident the team will deliver something with a good design and format after the recent disaster that is the battleground rework.
I'd instead encourage the team to work with what they have and do a massive imperial city overhaul. Take the beautifully designed area that is the city and sewers, and give it a new facelift with a new ranking system, factionless small-group based format, and a variety of new rewards and mechanics. I wrote a very detailed post back in 2023 describing the changes I'd make to accomplish what I think would be a popular mid-sized gamemode with imperial city, which I'll link here.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/620139/in-depth-imperial-city-rework-idea-the-pvp-content-eso-needs-in-2023/p1
I'd love to see an analysis of the people who participated in these surveys which apparently showed how much they preferred vengeance. I'd wager that the overwhelming majority of people who actually filled out these surveys are those who almost never step foot in cyrodiil, and likely will never step foot in cyrodiil even with the vengeance ruleset unless you provide some similar incentive like you did during the tests (double AP, golden pursuits, etc).
What I'm implying is that you're taking the opinions of non-PVP players, which seem to be in contrast to those of the vocal majority of actual PVP players, and re-designing the PVP environment to suit their needs rather than those of the die hard loyalist who have stuck with PVP all these years.
It is a shame to see. I'm interested to see if you address the elephant in the room during the upcoming part 3 of the PVP Q&A, which is the nature of ball groups and how stacking HOTS/Shields/bufff sets in that setting impact performance. It really feels like this is an issue that should have been addressed years ago to study it's impact on performance, rather than taking this sledgehammer approach that is vengeance.
Now, I am happy to hear about a new "mid size" pvp zone. This is something that has been requested for years now. However, we already have a zone that is beautifully designed and fills this exact niche - the imperial city and imperial city sewers. This area as a whole is the best designed open world PVP zone I've played in any game with a huge variety of terrains and environments, a mix of enemies to attract a wider crowd, etc. It's simply fallen out of popularity due to a lack of updates for years now. While I absolutely would not turn down receiving a new mid size PVP zone (with the normal "cyrodiil" rulesets!), I am not at all confident the team will deliver something with a good design and format after the recent disaster that is the battleground rework.
I'd instead encourage the team to work with what they have and do a massive imperial city overhaul. Take the beautifully designed area that is the city and sewers, and give it a new facelift with a new ranking system, factionless small-group based format, and a variety of new rewards and mechanics. I wrote a very detailed post back in 2023 describing the changes I'd make to accomplish what I think would be a popular mid-sized gamemode with imperial city, which I'll link here.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/620139/in-depth-imperial-city-rework-idea-the-pvp-content-eso-needs-in-2023/p1
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