ElderSmitter
Players are real people, with real lives and commitments. A lot of the objectives were quite repetitive, and overall it was time consuming. If there is a projected end date, it is the player's choice to spread them out.We will note, while we understand some of the confusion here due to the date usage, the Golden Pursuit has also been available for almost a month and a half now, providing ample time to engage with the event and complete the Golden Pursuit.
wose
Thanks for the responses! Also for @SneaKThis may actually be a good thing for PvP! (scenario 1)MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »You know exactly how bad liked Vengeance is by a big chunk of the pvp community, perhaps the majority but still pushing this path, is outragous
Because if grey host keeps the same PvP population as now(those who dislike vengeance as multiple players are stating) while running parallel with vengeance with a healthy population, it means the vengeance campaign was successful in attracting many more PvE players into PvP. Tripling the PvP population, assuming vengeance and grey host are both healthy. Which in turn could benefit the entire PvP population as a whole, including grey host.
Why does it seem the PvP community is against running vengeance parallel to grey host, if as stated, PvPers would stay on grey host anyways? This seems like a fear that grey host would die, basically saying that even many of the players in grey host don't actually want to be in grey host.
Really don't understand why PvP players who feel grey host is the only worthwhile PvP are worried about a parallel running vengeance campaign, because if grey host players go to vengeance that means they didn't want to be in grey host anyways. More PvP options for everyone.
PS: Two different types of Cyrodiil pvp running at the same time, seems like a good thing to me. Especially if both have a healthy player population.
@Sarannah because PvP is only fun when other players are also playing. I prefer Ravenwatch, but if nobody is in Ravenwatch, then Ravenwatch is a dead campaign and not fun. So I'm playing in Gray Host, even though I'd really prefer being in Ravenwatch. This familiar dynamic between Ravenwatch and Gray Host will apply to Vengeance vs Gray Host too. If all the casual PvPers (zerglings) log into Vengeance instead because they can zerg without the fear of some bomb build or an experienced group decimating them, then Gray Host population will suffer, wither and die. This wouldn't be an issue if the PvP population as a whole is big enough to keep all campaigns at population cap for most of the day - but that's not the case anymore. Introducing Vengeance parallel to Gray Host risks killing Gray Host entirely.
So why is that a bad thing? Because people will quit the game over it. Vengeance isn't Ravenwatch. This is a downward spiral, because Vengeance doesn't give you the same opportunity of mastery that regular PvP does. In Gray Host/Ravenwatch you can still learn to play your build better, change your set (or CP) in new ways to try and get an edge over others. There is mastery involved in that, and this self-improvement aspect is at the core of what many PvPers enjoy about PvP in the first place - challenge and competition. There is no challenge, less competition and less mastery involved in a dumbed down version of PvP, where everyone's build is the same and all skills deal "standard damage". That's why adding Vengeance is not the same and that's why people reject the very idea of it.
The bolded: To me it seems you feel the population in grey host cannot be sustained without all the 'casual PvPers' also being in there. But if players are given the choice, and they prefer another campaign where they can have more fun, isn't that their choice? And in turn also stating that they never wanted to be in grey host in the first place, when given the choice.
Now I get that ESO's PvP is unique and requires 'mastery' as you put it, but at the same time ESO's PvP has such a high barrier of entry, that for most players it isn't worth it. Especially for new players, they don't want to spend months training/gearing/skilling, they want to hop into the action straight away(all other competing MMO's offer this/maybe introduce load outs for grey host?). For these players having a vengeance campaign would be perfect, as they don't want to be/shouldn't be forced to be slaughtered over and over by veterans who have 10+ years of ESO PvP training under their belt. Maybe in some clever way vengeance can even be used as a stepping stone towards 'mastered PvP', as you called it. Maybe some changes to the IC could have players flow naturally from vengeance to IC to grey host's more mastered style of PvP. But this is just throwing out some ideas.
Besides challenge and competition that some players love, some other group of players also love fun, fairness/equal, and more casual PvP. Which is why having two different PvP styles running at the same time could even be a blessing.
Maybe the target audiences for grey host and vengeance are so incredibly different on their own, that neither campaign will have any effect on the other and it's populations. The only way to know for sure is to have these campaigns run side-by-side. Maybe ZOS could do a test during the christmas/new years period, where they have both campaigns running for one month(15 dec-15 jan). To see how the populations work, where specific players go, which is more popular, where new/seasonal players go, etc.
For the record, I think vengeance and grey host could live perfectly side by side, as I suspect their target audiences are so incredibly different. Some players seem to be panicking for no good reason. And I do not want grey host to die or be taken away!
PS: Personally I do think there is skill and builds and mastery involved in vengeance as well, but the tests were too short to come into any sort of meta vs countermeta play.
PPS: I doubt ZOS is lying about wanting to keep grey host. There seems to be no logical reason why they would want to alienate a paying portion of their playerbase.
PPPS: Some players seem to be panicking because of this announcement, but there is no reason to as the vengeance and grey host playerbases are completely different player groups.
JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »Basically, I see most of the people who join the worm cult as being not very intelligent, or only concerned about their desires. They either don't think about the planemeld as actually happening, or they somehow think they can jockey enough favor to be exempt from it when the time comes.
I’m not sure why anyone would join the Worm Cult.
scrappy1342 wrote: »would be interesting to see something similar in eso but use the divines instead of elements. of course there can't be 8 different responses to everything, but palia doesn't do the full 4 on everything either.
JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »Sometimes, I do like the 'evil for evils sake' as I don't really want a redeemable villain all the time, and too often, stories these days, when they give characters backstories that are nuanced, often come across as 'it isn't his fault! he had a bad childhood' rather than 'he had a bad childhood, but he still made the wrong choices'.
JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »it wouldn't make sense for me to tell an annoying character what exactly they can do with their request, when the offshoot is that I am going to take the quest anyway and follow them around like a well trained dog.
because PvP is only fun when other players are also playing.
Vengeance doesn't give you the same opportunity of mastery that regular PvP does. In Gray Host/Ravenwatch you can still learn to play your build better, change your set (or CP) in new ways to try and get an edge over others. There is mastery involved in that, and this self-improvement aspect is at the core of what many PvPers enjoy about PvP in the first place - challenge and competition.
All competitive games need casuals. That's just how healthy populations work. So if ZOS makes choices that move the casual players elsewhere but keeps out the hardcore players (by Vengeance simply not being enjoyable to them), then ZOS is making the conscious decision to kick out the hardcore playerbase.
BardokRedSnow wrote: »But yea, eso is a spinoff and most fans do not want any feature crossovers, what works here would not translate well to the main series in my opinion. I especially dont want "dragon knight" and "templar" or "arcanist" to be a thing in the lore, the combat and concept of magic is so vastly different in the main series its like a different world sometimes, which I never did like about eso but just got used to and dismissed it as "2nd Era magic", which does kind of work. There's abilities and powers from earlier eras closer to the dawn era that are much different from the 3rd and 4th era, but thats lore stuff.