Best Of
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
EthanolMuffins wrote: »I never PvP'd much before I took a break and tried venegance last night, it reminds me of FF14 pvp, which I hated because there wasn't build variety. To me one of the most fun parts of ESO is the build crafting, I don't like that this game mode will take most of that away.
And you know what? That is 100% valid. Wont it be great that you will not be forced into this campaign but can play in Grey Host with the full monty of what the game has available?
Just not right now
You know what, That is 100% valid. Do you think you will make it the next few days? The other guy mentioned trials, maybe we should all do that.
Well, yea I live a real life so I probably won’t log in at all this week.
And don’t worry, I tried asking for Vengeance to be brought to PvE already but oh boy that crowd sure doesn’t want performance in PvE. Yet we’re the pot calling the kettle black.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/685746/vengeance-ruleset-for-dungeons-etc/p1
There you go bud! I think we will both make it. AND, i think both of us will be able to enjoy either GH or Veng once both are live at the same time to our hearts content! I know I cant wait to theory craft what I am going to pair with Rallying Cry when GH is back.
FYI, in update 50, RC will be nerfed and we’ll have a lot of other changes to sets alongside class masteries and werewolf. The game will be taking some steps in the right direction finally.
Vengeance won’t though, likely best to play an Assault or Sniper loadout and spam UAVs for XP.
SneaK
1
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Their decisions make me certain that any dev at Zos involved in pvp does not play in Cyrodiil at all.
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Man you guys are embarassing...
"No ONe Is GoInG To PlAy ThIs WHeN GrEy HoSt is HEre AlSo".... then why are you here, crying about something that you believe will not impact you or your game play?
LOL you realise people aren’t necessarily mad that Vengeance exists. They’re mad because the only thing they log onto the game to play keeps getting removed to push this gamemode onto everyone.
And yeh, you might say it’s only a week, you’ll survive but imagine if they removed crafting writs for a week, or the ability to join trials?
So keep your poor attempt at ragebait to TikTok comments please, you’re just embarrassing yourself
Poss
13
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
The next one who talks about skill in vengeance 🤣
Do you think skill equates spending 900 hours grinding the most op set in the game, and everyone using the same 3 sets? Sets that do 99 percent of the work for you? That is absolutely not skill.albertberku wrote: »Is it that or are you missing your stupid OP Maarselok builds, or DK one shot combos or Damage Skill Line stack subclass meta? Your proc sets to carry your damage for you? Medium armor high sustain, high healing, high dmg, high crit, high mobility, speed cap streak, high hp builds to carry you? Is that what you miss?
Call me crazy but looks like you listed 11 different ways to play…
Jokes aside, anybody who has PvP’d in ESO over the decade remembers when things were not so unbalanced, and likely would jump at the chance to restore balance, however not for the sake of killing build variety (like you listed above).
Everyone always argues about balance when the topic of Vengeance comes up, guess what, Vengeance was not sold on balance it was sold on Performance. ZOS won’t balance Vengeance properly either. It’ll be a watered down mode with a worse meta than what GH will have after U50 drops class masteries. Vengeance will literally wind up being flavor of the month more than any camp we’ve ever seen, just like the tests were with NB. It’s 10 times worse though cause the game is moving forward with all kinds of updates and Vengeance won’t let you access them.
DOA
It is much easier to balance a small set of skills with an equal playing field, than 100+ sets and an insane amount of variables. Its not dead, I see mostly positive feedback in game, and a few loud whiners that cannot play without their broken builds.albertberku wrote: »Well i listed 3 builds actually. 1: DoT with Maarselok (10% usage). 2: DK (60%), 3: Damage/Burst lines subclass (15%). You can use Shalks instead of Heart of Flame or Blastbones in another damage/burst line. You can use another glyph and one other trait than your friend. Does it really change your build or playstyle meaningfully? And everything else i listed are just used by all three of these. From medium armor to weapon dmg stack to speed cap unlimited sprint to high hp to unlimited sustain to godly dmg to crits/ block healing, extreme burst/proc sets. Just the same OP playstyle and build.Call me crazy but looks like you listed 11 different ways to play…
I am going to give you an example about what i mean. Before hybridization patch and all the chaos afterwards, there used to be 12 playstyles. Each class with stam and magicka versions. Magsorc played differently than stamsorc, stamblade was deadly but squishy, had hat shade gameplay. And then there was magblade with cloak and resto shield for healing when in cloak. There was Templar that could block and heal better than everyone else staying alive in dense areas. Magsorc could run away with Streak. And then there was DK which was master of DoTs and could burn you if you get close. These are the different playstyles. Today you just slot medium armor and damage lines, stack weapon dmg and crits and just sprint at your opponent at speed cap to hit them with 5 different abilities at once without any gameplay whatsoever. You get hit by stupid unrealted combos like Snipe + Overload + Crushing + Pulse + Crystal Weapon + Winterborn in a single GCD. Why?
Exactly this.
Do you think skill equates running in a massive zerg over 2 ppl? Or do you think skill equates everyone running a nb in vengeance?
Jaavaa
4
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
albertberku wrote: »I mean pro-Vengeance people doesnt really give a s about your opinions as "PvP veterans" (lol) on Vengeance. We are enjoying ourselves and the campaign is full of players. You are the minority here. You will just diminish as your beloved Grey Host will do. Soo there is that. You had your fun, you got carried by your builds extensively in the recent years. Now the fun is over.
Pro GH players really doesn't give a *** about your opinion nor they take it for serious.But it's funny to read how you comfort yourself by making things up.
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
albertberku wrote: »Well, i am going to say the sweaties that love to chase me in GH with their carry builds use nightblades in Veng. So you have a point. It is a tad stronger right now. But it is definitely not 100%. You play against Templars, Wardens, there are a lot of Magsorcs. There are actually 4 - 5 different classes involving at any fight. And most importantly NB is deadly but they are not also fast + tanky. That is what most matters. You can run away from them easily if you build for it, or you can attack and kill them. There are tradeoffs. No more carry builds, maybe not balanced, maybe stronger but not complete carry builds. Yes, it is not balanced still, but much much better than what is happening in GH rn.And vengeance is 100% nightblades so what is your point?
In Vengeance right now you can fight against any class and if you die it will still be on you. The power gap is not that much between the builds. If someone kills you, they are probably better at weaving/rotation, they are not carried by their builds. In GH good luck in fights if you are not going to play one certain playstyle.
And what i love most about Vengeance is that the skills are distinct now. You dont fire 5 abilities at once. Streak has cooldown. Overload is its own skill, fires separately. Other abilities similarly. Fights are clearer. No GH chaos anymore with noone knowing what is happening on the field. And for that reason there were tremendous amount of new players in Cyrodiil tonight that were low level but still can understand and enjoy fights going on. That is why Vengeance will be successful, that is if they keep it that simple in the future. It doesnt need to be a button or mouse mesh simulator for it to contain skillful gameplay.
Lol this guy, you see low levels cause Vengeance is a place to level alts and that’s it, you don’t have to be level 50 or cp etc to run the meta. Literally coping at its finest.
Also, another lol at “building” to run away.
SneaK
4
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
albertberku wrote: »Well i listed 3 builds actually. 1: DoT with Maarselok (10% usage). 2: DK (60%), 3: Damage/Burst lines subclass (15%).
And vengeance is 100% nightblades so what is your point?
There will always be a “meta” in every single aspect of the game that people will naturally migrate to. The toxic PvE community is forever reminding of us that: “no you can’t join my raid team because you don’t have an arcanist nor are you parsing 180k dps”.
Your argument that GH is bad because everyone plays the same build while at the same time defending Veng where everyone plays the same build, frankly baffles me.
Poss
6
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
albertberku wrote: »Is it that or are you missing your stupid OP Maarselok builds, or DK one shot combos or Damage Skill Line stack subclass meta? Your proc sets to carry your damage for you? Medium armor high sustain, high healing, high dmg, high crit, high mobility, speed cap streak, high hp builds to carry you? Is that what you miss?
Call me crazy but looks like you listed 11 different ways to play…
Jokes aside, anybody who has PvP’d in ESO over the decade remembers when things were not so unbalanced, and likely would jump at the chance to restore balance, however not for the sake of killing build variety (like you listed above).
Everyone always argues about balance when the topic of Vengeance comes up, guess what, Vengeance was not sold on balance it was sold on Performance. ZOS won’t balance Vengeance properly either. It’ll be a watered down mode with a worse meta than what GH will have after U50 drops class masteries. Vengeance will literally wind up being flavor of the month more than any camp we’ve ever seen, just like the tests were with NB. It’s 10 times worse though cause the game is moving forward with all kinds of updates and Vengeance won’t let you access them.
DOA
SneaK
4
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Maximus_Mordred wrote: »Maximus_Mordred wrote: »During its last appearance on PCNA, Vengeance suffered the same issue that plagued and ultimately defeated no proc PVP: As soon as the populations reach a certain level of imbalance, it becomes impossible to play against massive numbers as an underdog.
Yeah during my playtests the limited build options forces the entire camp into a numbers game. Whoever has the higher pop in one area wins - which isn't fun.
A zerg fest just stinks.BardokRedSnow wrote: ».Maximus_Mordred wrote: »ToddIngram wrote: »No amount of hyping by the vocal minority will change that.
Pot, meet kettle.
The only people who will stay in vengeance long term are the same ones who occupy the now dead ravenwatch, BR and below 50 campaigns. Jaded bitter pvpers that just wanna zerg, and pvers that just want their tier 3 rewards.
Perhaps there's been confusion about the marketing of the end product. Cyrodiil is built for zerging, not for having duels/1v1s, not for having smallscale fights, and certainly not for ballgroups or bombers.
It is built for zerging and siege warfare. If you don't like that, then that's fine, but the product is fundamentally not for you.
This may come as a surprise to some, but a lot of people, in fact a massive proportion of largescale PvPers play in Cyrodiil for the large-scale objective fights which rely around zerg v. zerg combat as a foundation. If you want personalised strictly skill-based fighting, there are other avenues in BGs, duels and IC.
Trying to change the behaviour of Cyrodiil and by extension how others can play the game, because it doesn't pander to your own personal style of play, especially when those styles of play already exist is not only selfish but reveals a critical lack of perspective. Play Cyrodiil in smallscale or solo of course, but you have no right to complain when the zerg runs you over.
You are mistaking what I mean by zerg fest.
I love massive battles, 1-2 hour keep battles at chal are amazing. I do not like the spin off tower humpers 1vxer fights... those are annoying to me.
In Cyrodiil (Gray Host) your groups build can turn the tide in a fight. If you've got a good setup you can make a difference.
In Veng... it's simply a numbers game. Whoever brings the most people to a keep wins. That isn't always the case in GH but it is 100% the case in a veng camp.
Thats what I mean by zerg fest.
Fair, I misunderstood what you were trying to say on that last post then. I agree that it has heavily shifted towards numbers over skill, but that's just a natural consequence of dramatically reducing the diversity of sets and playstyles - a necessary step to actually make those zerg battles viable in the first place. Given one or the other, I'd personally take the latter (although of course both would be optimal, but ZOS can't or won't make that a possibility).
However, what I said still stands in regards to the subset of players who actually do misunderstand Cyrodiil's intended purpose.
So first you were saying that on GH people get carried by their sets while skills matter in Vengeance and now you are saying the exact opposite and you agree that vengeance is more about numbers than skills? Did I get something wrong?