This is what was said by Alec during the recent ESO Dev Update:

We're not going to really go into stealth play with these passives, in particular because that can be really strong in PvP - while not being very strong in PvE so we're really leaning into stuff that's a bit more agnostic.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2718853238?t=00h36m26s

I wanted to open this discussion because I think there seems to be a bit of a disconnect on why stealth can be really strong in PvP and what nightblade's class identity is. In the same segment we are shown a passive that raises the Critical Damage & Healing by 25% and the cap by 35%.

Let's be clear about something, the problem currently in PvP isn't that nightblades can utilize invisibility to survive equal to other classes, the problem is that you get one shot from someone from stealth, without getting to respond to them. Most of these builds do not even utilize the offensively weak Shadow skill line, they utilize invisibility potions after using Ulfsild's Contingency... or if ranged builds, they'll simply just sneak and subclass for maximum Critical Damage.

The survivability aspect of stealth is in a very bad state currently - typical nightblade scoreboards at the end of battlegrounds show 10+ deaths on average because Shadowy Disguise is:

1. Hardcountered by a lot of things like det pots, PBAoEs, Camo Hunter/Inner Light and soft countered by things like last ticks of Lightning Heavy Attack, Bound Armaments, Curse/POTL going off, various proc sets
2. Extremely annoying to sustain, requiring gimmicks like Heart of Flame, Asylum SnB etc
3. Clunky, very clunky.

The recent pure class dueling tournament on PC/EU that forced the nightblades that joined to use Shadow saw none of them actually use Stealth because it is quite frankly terrible in dueling.


So with this in mind it feels a bit strange to hear someone say that "stealth can be problematic" and see another passive massively buffing the burst damage from it.

Personally as someone who loves playing nightblade I would've rather seen a strong defensive passive(s) revolving around Stealth and overall adjustments to the burst damage/"one tap" potential in this game.


I understand there is a Nightblade class rework planned for next year, and hopefully the class identity - particularly stealth - receives more attention then.

But at the moment, it feels like there’s a disconnect between what developers believe the problem is and what players are actually experiencing in PvP.


Lastly, referring to the second part of the sentence... when it comes to PvE, there's many avenues to make it more viable: adding more sources of invisibility combined with special effects when using abilities from invisibility etc, but that would be a whole new forum post.

Oh no, my entire life revolves around ESO, those 5 minutes will destroy my mind, I can not live anymore.

I am sitting here with my lunch and I can't log in to do my daily writs this is not normal I will have to find something else to do!!

Please don't make yet another extended maintenance...

Or do away with the time-gated stuff if this is going to become the norm.

Just choose one.

I'm in the server......for another game. DRG dwarves unite!

im waiting for the Extended Maintenance message to appear

BretonMage wrote: »

I think about this a lot, having seen comments like this about Tan and the other controversial NB character, Taash from Dragon Age. While I totally understand the desire for LGBT+ communities to see representation that they can be "proud of", I think it was also important for the writers to stress that they don't have to be this model minority that people are expecting.

I'm not talking about a "model minority". I don't want or need a character to be "proud of" either (I generally reject group think, I don't even see myself as part of any community, I just have and had friends with all kinds of different backgrounds, including people who'd fall under the LGBT+ acronym like myself - and yes, of course we're talking about media nonsense and how these depictions might ruin our reputation by showing people who love to label others, and put them in boxes by these labels, off-putting depictions).

That said, I absolutely don't expect a fictional LGBT+ character to be perfect, genius level intelligent, capable and whatnot in every regard. Because in real life, we aren't perfect either. We're all just humans with all the variety in human characters, interests, talents, etc, that exists. Some are dumb, some intelligent. Some introverted, some extroverted. Some live a very mainstream life, others don't. Exactly like people who aren't LGBT+. So, yes, of course a LGBT+ character in ESO could also be dumb, or evil, or annoying, or racist, or a human-sacrificing cannibalistic Namira cultist. But the smaller the minority, and the less familiar the masses are, I don't think it exactly helps to publish a depiction that's rather off-putting to many people. Because media depiction influences how people think of "groups" (or people they put in these groups by some character trait or aspect of their being). So there's a certain responsibility, from my point of view.

As I said, I don't expect LGBT+ characters in ESO to be depicted as some kind of awesome super humans, but something not annoying to so many people could surely have been done? I mean, we got Isobel as a character before. Who some people found bland, I think, but at least not irritating. Her being lesbian, or more precisely the fact that she's in love with Aurelia, was central to her questline. I don't think anyone was bothered by that.

BretonMage wrote: »

It's ok to be yourself, imperfect and loud.

It's also okay to reject people who are annoying and loud, no matter their identity or orientation. Not everyone needs to like everyone.

I havent played pvp in forever specifically because of how messed up GH is...so I am actually very much looking forward to the new server. Maybe I will pop into pvp again.

L_Nici wrote: »

Its not just that they disable Grey Host in that week once more, but also with Update 50 and the big PvP reward system, the first 30!!!! ranks are basically Vengeance only rewards. They keep forcing it onto us, they do not listen, that the majority of PvP players do not want Vengeance. Its just PvE people liking it, because then they can just jump in, change nothing and be good at it.
When Vengeance PvE rules for Trifecta btw? I don't want to change my build for that and I expect to be able to do it with absolutely no effort, thank you.

Oh no, we wouldn't want a balanced playing field. Like every other pvp mode in other pvp games ever. That would be awwwful.

ToddIngram wrote: »

Less than 1 in 5 PvP mains will play vengeance. If you take a poll of PvP mains you'll see this is the case.

Even if that would be the case now (and i am not saying it is), Vengeance will still have a better future than GH. Vengeance may be picked up by new players. Do you see any possibility that any new player would play GH and say "Oh, PvP is very interesting in this game. Let me try it for a while" ? And also players wont be like "Ok, i learned PvP in Vengeance and lets move to GH and have a challenge!". They will most probably just stay in Vengeance and never set foot on GH with Vengeance having their own PvP veterans.

GH and Vengeance are quite different game modes with different gameplay right now. GH is being very tedious even for the players that are playing in Cyrodiil since years. I dont think any new player will enjoy getting hit by 6 different abilities (each 5k - 10k+ at death recap) from someone outside your screen at the same time without a single animation playing the moment they set foot on Cyrodiil. GH will never grow in population. It has shrinked last years and it will just continue to shrink. Because some people are going to leave like every game and game mode and when you have no new players to replace them you can do the math.

It is not really about being veteran or being skilled, etc. That doesnt really have to translate to chaotic gameplay GH has. GW2 has much slower and strategic combat, there are PvP veterans there, as well. Just a different kind of gameplay.