Best Of
Re: Night Market: Imagine if trials were just now added to ESO
CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I saw someone say this (I couldn't find the thread they'd said it in after going back to look. I'll edit their name in if I find it) and I think it's a really good point that needs more consideration.
People seem to be really complaining because the NM is something new to them and they don't understand or care to prepare for it. So imagine if trials were newly added to the game just now– a place where players have to group up, prepare, and learn.
How many would be complaining since that content is harder than what they're used to? How would trials seem to folks on day one launch if it was mostly just DPS' using story quest sets with no support roles?
I haven't had enough chance to truly interact with the NM to get a solid stance on it, and before its launch I thought I wouldn't even be interested in it. But from what I played I felt engaged, and I'm saddened to see how much instant negative feedback there is with the NM... it's really not that despicable seeming.
I chose to never touch solstice. How does NM compare to writhing wall?
If the NM was established in the minds of the community as content solely for vet HM trial players (or similarly geared/experienced players), those more casual people would likely avoid it and it would get less negative feedback as a result.
To be fair it's nowhere near the difficulty of HM Trials. It's about on par with Normal Trials. I'm a PvPer and have never even stepped into a Vet Trial and was still more than comfortable pugging Night Market via the group finder. It feels about as hard as the few Normal Trials I've done like Sunspire or Lucent. Mobs will kill you, bosses have a lot of health. If anything, Night Market is a tad easier as there aren't any super coordinated mechanics like the Twins in Maw or the mirror bosses in Lucent, and encounters don't frequently reset since everyone can immediately respawn and get back to the encounter in ~10 seconds.
What normal trials though? I’ve done a naked nHRC and it was a cakewalk compared to this, even in a full group for NM.
Re: Calamatous Dunegorger
It's a super fun fight. It's one of the cooler things added to the night market, especially when most stuff is ripped straight from dungeons. I imagine that's what they meant when they said night market would scratch that dungeon itch.
More like this. Just make it a bit easier to get swallowed. I explained to my group last night, my guildmates understood and then we all got in the cone but only some of us got eaten. Others had to chase it and thankfully came in before we wiped. Great fight. Would definitely love to see more stuff like this.
More like this. Just make it a bit easier to get swallowed. I explained to my group last night, my guildmates understood and then we all got in the cone but only some of us got eaten. Others had to chase it and thankfully came in before we wiped. Great fight. Would definitely love to see more stuff like this.
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 3 Summary
Could we see some of the internal testing for a PvP usable Malevolent Promise?
The most obvious offensive power boost that Necromancer could gain from it is through tethering a player directly and the Corpseburster set but we, as players, have yet to actually see any practical application of it in PvP and have no reference point for how powerful that class mastery passive allegedly could be.
People are, currently on live, running around using elemental susceptibility as a spammable (and zero cost ability) utilizing the new shattered paths mythic. If the internal testing shows that Malevolent Promise can do even more than that, fine, but nobody in the player base has even had the chance to see it for comparison.
Thank you for addressing the matter directly though.
The most obvious offensive power boost that Necromancer could gain from it is through tethering a player directly and the Corpseburster set but we, as players, have yet to actually see any practical application of it in PvP and have no reference point for how powerful that class mastery passive allegedly could be.
People are, currently on live, running around using elemental susceptibility as a spammable (and zero cost ability) utilizing the new shattered paths mythic. If the internal testing shows that Malevolent Promise can do even more than that, fine, but nobody in the player base has even had the chance to see it for comparison.
Thank you for addressing the matter directly though.
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 3 Summary
Glad to hear the team is continuing to monitor PVP balance on the PTS! It's been great seing all the changes based on feedback these past few PTS cycles. Hope we'll be seeing an adjustment to the conservation of energy passive's healing next week!
Looking forward to seeing next week's changes and continuing to provide feedback.
Looking forward to seeing next week's changes and continuing to provide feedback.
React
10
Re: Official Night Market Feedback Thread
I try to stay optimistic about this game but I am struggling now.
I'm not playing the Night Market at all. To me the reward vs grind is too skewed towards the grind.
Maybe next time?
I'm not playing the Night Market at all. To me the reward vs grind is too skewed towards the grind.
Maybe next time?
LalMirchi
10
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 3 Summary
huskandhunger wrote: »I think we should table the Werewolf Refresh until after all the Class Updates later this year and leave it as the Live werewolf. The nerfs are just too much at this point and you're hurting the player base and intended audience with these changes throughout the PTS cycle.
Let's go back to the drawing board, this is a massive flop from the developer team. 🙃
This would be best at this point actually. Sorry to waste y’all’s time but I don’t want this to be the finished product in PvP for the next 5 or more years when y’all have completely forgotten about this… and wolf hunter… and then try to buff/ “rework” it later but walk everything back again.
Maybe something will change in player mindset between now and the end of the rework cycle. Can we legitimately just bench the werewolf changes and push them to the end of the rework cycle? That way the ‘hard work’ stays the same but we don’t get something that is being egregiously exploited on one end and woefully underpowered compared to live on the other. Melee cleave is a joke for PvE and the more I think about it, the more I realize that werewolf is still vastly inferior to any other spec especially with claws (so PvE shouldn’t be a consideration at this point as we can make that a bit better later down the road too).
///
React has 3,000 subs only- half or more are probably inactive PvPers. Please don’t let content creators control you ZoS.
Wuuffyy
5
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 3 Summary
I think we should table the Werewolf Refresh until after all the Class Updates later this year and leave it as the Live werewolf. The nerfs are just too much at this point and you're hurting the player base and intended audience with these changes throughout the PTS cycle.
Let's go back to the drawing board, this is a massive flop from the developer team. 🙃
Let's go back to the drawing board, this is a massive flop from the developer team. 🙃
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
huskandhunger wrote: »Anyone can slap on high health and still have damage, even non-werewolf users. And yes they too will die much the same, see we are actually in agreement 🤝
? Nobody on the live server can slap on 50k HP and do 8-9k DPS. You wanna bet 10 mil gold on it?
hoangdz
2
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
huskandhunger wrote: »huskandhunger wrote: »Wolfchild07 wrote: »1 vs 1 means nothing. When duels were added, it was a mistake. There are, thankfully, no 1 vs 1 competitions in the game. Why are you running around solo in a war zone unless you’re really good, really stupid, or just don’t care?
A werewolf ball group vs a non-werewolf ball group will lose everytime. The werewolves will jump in and melt to the stacked non-werewolf ult dump. Werewolf needs major defences added to it.
Yes I could not agree more about the defense part, and the devs could start by returning the unique 10k armor it used to have.huskandhunger wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »Can we please stop the bickering back and forth? I'd love to get back to actual constructive feedback for our combat/balance devs.
I've seen a lot of talk about why or why not werewolf should be as strong as a two-bar setup. I think with these reworks it should be as strong as Dragonknight, but werewolf NEEDS drawbacks for being one-bar and currently it does have those which I will list. Dragonknights on the live server right now are capable of pressing 3 buttons and nuking multiple players back-to-back, while having almost infinite sustain, cross heals, chain pull, ranged aoe damage, major expedition, snare removal, good defense, and more. I have no issue with this and have never asked for nerfs since the new class refresh.
Playing werewolf, you have a LOT of drawbacks such as increased poison damage taken, no weapon passives, forced to deal with a transformation timer system, no cross healing, no purge or snare removals, limited healing while kiting and not actively on top of a player, no range damage, no burst damage, no shields, lack of group utility or support ultimates, cannot place siege, cannot restore magicka via heavy attacks for the only on-demand heal in the toolkit, no access to scribing, most class passives do not work in form, no proper crouch/sneak, cannot use skill scrolls, can't mount in form, meaning you can't keep up with others going between keeps in Cyrodiil, several mythics don't work for us, like Rakkhat's Voidmantle.
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Werewolf is designed as a melee brawler with strengths and drawbacks. Simply put, melee range is Werewolf's domain. If you are in melee range fighting a Werewolf, you are not fighting it correctly.
Werewolf cannot attack you from range, only gap close into melee range. Werewolf cannot purge negative effects like snares and damage over time, and has a limited Magicka pool to burn on self healing when there is no target in their melee range to gain health from.
Certain Class kits are built around being in melee range (like Templar and Dragonknight), but the human form always has the flexibility to build differently. There are ranged alternatives to those playstyles, and you can even swap between melee and ranged with the loadout of your two skill bars. Werewolf is permanently stuck as this melee brawler archetype.
Since we cannot test Update 50's Werewolf in Cyrodiil on the PTS, we aren't seeing the full picture. You're expected to be in melee range in a duel, so Werewolf is going to shine in that environment. Once we see Update 50's Werewolf in Cyrodiil, you'll find how easy it is to counter them.
Werewolves's healing via Bloodclaws scales per target struck, doesn't it? So Werewolves survival should be even better against more than one target. There aren't many skills who scale their healing in such a way.
It's the same value per target which is very similar to what already exists in the game in the form of the necromancer Scythe ability
ZoS even put a cap of 6 as well on the PTS maybe we should remove the cap, what do you think?huskandhunger wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »Can we please stop the bickering back and forth? I'd love to get back to actual constructive feedback for our combat/balance devs.
I've seen a lot of talk about why or why not werewolf should be as strong as a two-bar setup. I think with these reworks it should be as strong as Dragonknight, but werewolf NEEDS drawbacks for being one-bar and currently it does have those which I will list. Dragonknights on the live server right now are capable of pressing 3 buttons and nuking multiple players back-to-back, while having almost infinite sustain, cross heals, chain pull, ranged aoe damage, major expedition, snare removal, good defense, and more. I have no issue with this and have never asked for nerfs since the new class refresh.
Playing werewolf, you have a LOT of drawbacks such as increased poison damage taken, no weapon passives, forced to deal with a transformation timer system, no cross healing, no purge or snare removals, limited healing while kiting and not actively on top of a player, no range damage, no burst damage, no shields, lack of group utility or support ultimates, cannot place siege, cannot restore magicka via heavy attacks for the only on-demand heal in the toolkit, no access to scribing, most class passives do not work in form, no proper crouch/sneak, cannot use skill scrolls, can't mount in form, meaning you can't keep up with others going between keeps in Cyrodiil, several mythics don't work for us, like Rakkhat's Voidmantle.
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Werewolf is designed as a melee brawler with strengths and drawbacks. Simply put, melee range is Werewolf's domain. If you are in melee range fighting a Werewolf, you are not fighting it correctly.
Werewolf cannot attack you from range, only gap close into melee range. Werewolf cannot purge negative effects like snares and damage over time, and has a limited Magicka pool to burn on self healing when there is no target in their melee range to gain health from.
Certain Class kits are built around being in melee range (like Templar and Dragonknight), but the human form always has the flexibility to build differently. There are ranged alternatives to those playstyles, and you can even swap between melee and ranged with the loadout of your two skill bars. Werewolf is permanently stuck as this melee brawler archetype.
Since we cannot test Update 50's Werewolf in Cyrodiil on the PTS, we aren't seeing the full picture. You're expected to be in melee range in a duel, so Werewolf is going to shine in that environment. Once we see Update 50's Werewolf in Cyrodiil, you'll find how easy it is to counter them.
Werewolves's healing via Bloodclaws scales per target struck, doesn't it? So Werewolves survival should be even better against more than one target. There aren't many skills who scale their healing in such a way.
It's the same value per target which is very similar to what already exists in the game in the form of the necromancer Scythe ability
ZoS even put a cap of 6 as well on the PTS maybe we should remove the cap, what do you think?
Yes, and I did say that it exists, although not often. My point stands. Werewolves's survivability is scalable, hence not confined to mere duels.
Have you tried surviving as a werewolf vs.multiple 28m range attackers using bows and destruction staves and scribing abilities?
If you haven't tried it on the Live Version you should because PTS werewolf will still encounter the same problems and get mowed down just as fast in an actual combat setting in Cyro.
Duels are meaningless because they are confined to a small circle you cannot leave or you lose the duel. I actually think they should remove dueling from the game entirely, we are not an e-sports or competitive landscape, it's a fantasy game, let's not delude ourselves.
No doubt. I see this being a problem for sure as for any pure melee build.
Except for melee Dragonknight which has 50% damage reduction vs. ranged attacks with their wings. They even are given snare removal and major expedition.
And this is why the spurious claims about Werewolf health and healing which are limited by range, high ability cost, and a lack of any similar tools that current Live Dragonknight can reach for are blatantly hypocritical and misleading.
You are right about the first part, but the part with Werewolf having high ability cost is deceptive, because a build whose main damage comes from light attacking and passive healing, the actual ressource drain will be low. The average drain in most fights seem to be only 700-900 stamina/s. So you can make due with base recoveries and not run out.
This only trivializes further as there is a larger health pool as a buffer. On a low health build you can be more easily pressured into dodging. I don't really have a point with this or try to insinuate anything. Being out of ressources constantly is annoying and I am glad they make ressource sustain more abundant over time.
Dracane
1
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf
huskandhunger wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »Can we please stop the bickering back and forth? I'd love to get back to actual constructive feedback for our combat/balance devs.
I've seen a lot of talk about why or why not werewolf should be as strong as a two-bar setup. I think with these reworks it should be as strong as Dragonknight, but werewolf NEEDS drawbacks for being one-bar and currently it does have those which I will list. Dragonknights on the live server right now are capable of pressing 3 buttons and nuking multiple players back-to-back, while having almost infinite sustain, cross heals, chain pull, ranged aoe damage, major expedition, snare removal, good defense, and more. I have no issue with this and have never asked for nerfs since the new class refresh.
Playing werewolf, you have a LOT of drawbacks such as increased poison damage taken, no weapon passives, forced to deal with a transformation timer system, no cross healing, no purge or snare removals, limited healing while kiting and not actively on top of a player, no range damage, no burst damage, no shields, lack of group utility or support ultimates, cannot place siege, cannot restore magicka via heavy attacks for the only on-demand heal in the toolkit, no access to scribing, most class passives do not work in form, no proper crouch/sneak, cannot use skill scrolls, can't mount in form, meaning you can't keep up with others going between keeps in Cyrodiil, several mythics don't work for us, like Rakkhat's Voidmantle.
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Werewolf is designed as a melee brawler with strengths and drawbacks. Simply put, melee range is Werewolf's domain. If you are in melee range fighting a Werewolf, you are not fighting it correctly.
Werewolf cannot attack you from range, only gap close into melee range. Werewolf cannot purge negative effects like snares and damage over time, and has a limited Magicka pool to burn on self healing when there is no target in their melee range to gain health from.
Certain Class kits are built around being in melee range (like Templar and Dragonknight), but the human form always has the flexibility to build differently. There are ranged alternatives to those playstyles, and you can even swap between melee and ranged with the loadout of your two skill bars. Werewolf is permanently stuck as this melee brawler archetype.
Since we cannot test Update 50's Werewolf in Cyrodiil on the PTS, we aren't seeing the full picture. You're expected to be in melee range in a duel, so Werewolf is going to shine in that environment. Once we see Update 50's Werewolf in Cyrodiil, you'll find how easy it is to counter them.
Werewolves's healing via Bloodclaws scales per target struck, doesn't it? So Werewolves survival should be even better against more than one target. There aren't many skills who scale their healing in such a way.
It's the same value per target which is very similar to what already exists in the game in the form of the necromancer Scythe ability
ZoS even put a cap of 6 as well on the PTS maybe we should remove the cap, what do you think?
huskandhunger wrote: »Erickson9610 wrote: »IncultaWolf wrote: »Can we please stop the bickering back and forth? I'd love to get back to actual constructive feedback for our combat/balance devs.
I've seen a lot of talk about why or why not werewolf should be as strong as a two-bar setup. I think with these reworks it should be as strong as Dragonknight, but werewolf NEEDS drawbacks for being one-bar and currently it does have those which I will list. Dragonknights on the live server right now are capable of pressing 3 buttons and nuking multiple players back-to-back, while having almost infinite sustain, cross heals, chain pull, ranged aoe damage, major expedition, snare removal, good defense, and more. I have no issue with this and have never asked for nerfs since the new class refresh.
Playing werewolf, you have a LOT of drawbacks such as increased poison damage taken, no weapon passives, forced to deal with a transformation timer system, no cross healing, no purge or snare removals, limited healing while kiting and not actively on top of a player, no range damage, no burst damage, no shields, lack of group utility or support ultimates, cannot place siege, cannot restore magicka via heavy attacks for the only on-demand heal in the toolkit, no access to scribing, most class passives do not work in form, no proper crouch/sneak, cannot use skill scrolls, can't mount in form, meaning you can't keep up with others going between keeps in Cyrodiil, several mythics don't work for us, like Rakkhat's Voidmantle.
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Werewolf is designed as a melee brawler with strengths and drawbacks. Simply put, melee range is Werewolf's domain. If you are in melee range fighting a Werewolf, you are not fighting it correctly.
Werewolf cannot attack you from range, only gap close into melee range. Werewolf cannot purge negative effects like snares and damage over time, and has a limited Magicka pool to burn on self healing when there is no target in their melee range to gain health from.
Certain Class kits are built around being in melee range (like Templar and Dragonknight), but the human form always has the flexibility to build differently. There are ranged alternatives to those playstyles, and you can even swap between melee and ranged with the loadout of your two skill bars. Werewolf is permanently stuck as this melee brawler archetype.
Since we cannot test Update 50's Werewolf in Cyrodiil on the PTS, we aren't seeing the full picture. You're expected to be in melee range in a duel, so Werewolf is going to shine in that environment. Once we see Update 50's Werewolf in Cyrodiil, you'll find how easy it is to counter them.
Werewolves's healing via Bloodclaws scales per target struck, doesn't it? So Werewolves survival should be even better against more than one target. There aren't many skills who scale their healing in such a way.
It's the same value per target which is very similar to what already exists in the game in the form of the necromancer Scythe ability
ZoS even put a cap of 6 as well on the PTS maybe we should remove the cap, what do you think?
Yes, and I did say that it exists, although not often. My point stands. Werewolves's survivability is scalable, hence not confined to mere duels.
Dracane
1