I have a feeling that the disdain people will have for this set will set record highs in the coming days.

Conservation really isn't broken, it's just strong, which is exactly what we need.

Sure it can deliver strong sustain and yeah, it can buff the Blood Magic heal, but, in the context of having to carry sub-par skills the sustain isn't a problem.

Further, HA is a material element in many Sorc play styles, which won't proc Conservation or Blood. Which means that this passive isn't going to, realistically, be proccing every second.

Further, and to your point, we have very strong WW and continuingly strong DKs on the horizon that both deliver significant power over Sorcs, are we saying Sorcs are just supposed to be body meat and have insufficient sustain in light of that kind of power?

Our Class sets are poo, most of our skills are poo, we lack many key buff / debuffs as well as burst, our Shield is still one of the best in-game but it was nerfed unnecessarily, our execute is laughable now after it too was nerfed.

We can't burst 20k crit attacks after mitigation on a consistent basis with any of our class skills as pure-sorc like subclassed builds can, so if we're going to compete then strong sustain is one one thing we can lean on until our turn with the refresh.

Pyrebrand is a strong set and I do agree that there's a basis to look at adjusting the values on that one. .. I'm reluctant to talk much about DK because we all still need to go through the class refresh but the one thing I'm side-eyeing with DK is Hearth & Home. If DK is going to have a hard CC skill that provides strong follow up potential as well as a mobility buff that also provides soft CC immunity then the class does not really need any form of mobility debuff outside of the Traumatic passive; especially a debuff at 70%.

It's a bit much to pack all of that into one class, if DK is going to have all of those available mechanical benefits then they shouldn't also have a movement debuff, that's having your cake and eating it too.

I noticed this after the initial refresh but I didn't want to really go there yet because other classes haven't been re-worked yet, but, I'm doubtful that other classes are going to receive such a broad scope of skill function like what DK got so I suppose it's worth thinking about.

Thank you for finally getting rid of this terribly designed set for pvp. But why was there no mention of this in patch notes, that it was changed to 1 second duration?

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Also just to add that 2 of your points are pure class specific so if you have an issue with a pure warden and it’s masteries that’s a separate issue.
Maarselok monster helm requires you to lose a mythic to make sure Serpents disdain is double barred so it isn’t a very common interaction and when it is losing a mythic is a very large sacrifice to make.
Force of nature grants you at MAX 3,960 penetration (which requires all 6 damage types) which is just a hair more than double maces or wearing 3 light armor pieces and requires you to drop a better blue CP slot.
Incoming mythic is already nerfed through battlespirit.

The incoming mythic still provides 85% dmg increase on status effects. Builds with serpent's disdain are already too strong before this becomes a factor.

Maarselok, Force of nature and other things themselves are not an issue as i said, serpent's disdain ties things like this together into incredibly low skill, high power "cheese" specs.

Serpent's Disdain is currently both a top duel set, 1vX set and Xv1 set on PC EU.

Again, it does more than multiple sets put together right now.

I have put a lot of hours on u49 in PvP and have never seen a single person use this set outside of dueling in Wayrest. Comparing this to actual top meta sets is insane. Just compare this to rallying cry, wretched, rush of agony, farstrider, twice fang, shattered fate, gorethief, essence thief, or even dark convergence. (All of these can be one barred and run with a monster helm another 5 piece a mythic and a heavy trainee chest, something you cannot do when wearing serpents.) This set is nowhere near as good as you think it is.

We clearly have different experiences, which is fine.

I have extensive PvP experience on EU and whereas this set is largely consigned to the more "sweaty" variety of players, if you are engaging in competitive gameplay such as open world solo/duo or are engaging in highly motivated Xv1, builds with this set are immensely oppressive and in my opinion present a far greater threat than somebody with some stat lines. This set is used by duel tourney winners and smallscale players for a reason.

Myself and my group members will often target someone hard if we notice them using sets such as this, jeralls or similar, because builds enabled by these item sets are highly oppressive.

You may not see this set if you are engaging in standard AvA gameplay.

Sets such as rallying cry present their own issues as does the out of control critical damage meta, but that requires its own discussion.

Just thought I'd bring it up. Without empower and off balance involved, there's this weird standard how every other weapon type has its fully charged heavy attack easily dealing anywhere from 50% to more than double the damage compared to its light attack. And then there's the dual wield heavy noodle attack where sometimes, depending on overall stats, literally does less damage than a light attack.

Comparing melee weapons, a SnB heavy attack takes about 10% longer to charge yet does around 25% more damage compared to a DW heavy attack. A two handed heavy attack takes about 13% longer to charge and does more than 50% damage (before follow up) compared to DW heavies. Basically, the stat scaling for DW heavy attack damage is very bad and underpowered compared to that of other weapon types. It appears as if it's missing more than a third of the overall damage it should have.

Dual wield heavy attacks have clearly been underperforming for years now, and it might be time to update its base damage to a more reasonable and comparable level to that of the other melee heavy attacks. Considering that weapon passives will be involved, you'd expect that DW heavies should at least be doing as much, but probably more damage than SnB heavies.

React wrote: »

Still arguably the strongest possible thing to play 1v1, but probably more reasonable now outside of this scenario. I'd say yesterday's adjustments hit the mark in regards to reigning in the power level a bit.

Just going to propose a scenario based on this, not that my feedback appearsto matter here in the slightest (in other words, I feel like a fool for wasting my time and wanted to say ‘I know’ but I feel obligated to provide feedback anyway even if the ~outcome~, harsh nerf after harsh nerf for PvP, is inevitable)-

My opponent blocks, rolls, moves, purges (potentially), and of course heals (scenario info below). *Pointless to argue the numbers provided with you, because, of course it doesn’t (I don’t want to get into this again).

My “dps” drops from 6.7k to safely 4k or lower after ~aforementioned~. Most people in Cyro have ~35-40k health and do these things. Their healing combats my dots and I have no burst OR defile (I don’t even have defile like on live; couldn’t even do Jerall’s without defile as it isn’t impactful enough outside of a 1v1 so that’s not enough of a replacement imo)…

The opponent can vigor (it’s simply a ‘scenario’ so not going into whole spiel of burst heals and the like)- what 2-3k hps a second and if they keep this up every ~5 seconds, it’s basically a guarantee (this is not even including outside healers)? Side-tangent: I agree that I wanted wep/spell damage scaling and a hot which we didn’t get and instead received more of ~not that~ + of course every werewolf is going to have higher health than your average build… the point there: but like that’s a pure damage spec you’re providing right~ (so high health and squishy; maybe a little bit more because armor pots as you need less mag sustain, unlike free-roam, in a duel)??

If so, I will take a lot of damage and just based on what I said I’m meant to kill people with an effective 2, 3, 4k dps with no burst. DK (only other ‘reworked’ or highly effective thing I can refer to aside from subclass meta) still isn’t an ‘I win’ button and it has 3 burst moves (based on something in general thread, not an expert) with dots of its own (skilled players especially know how to circumvent both the dots and DK burst damage to an extent) and this only becomes more the case, I imagine, when the other ‘classes’ are reworked and come into play.

*I think, also, maybe part of what’s not being considered is that some of what I now have in my kit on PTS (so several of the provided buffs), just about every werewolf is sourcing through oakensoul on live (where we still consider werewolf to be F-tier to my knowledge). I’ve been doing a bit of research and have personally yet to find any damage related proc that I deem to be super reliable and meaningful outside of a 1v1 in terms of a 2 pc to replace it (maybe someone else has, but not me and not yet). So potentially just not as GREAT of shift from live than some are led to believe. I just hope we haven’t dogged werewolf back down into oblivion at the end of this in PvP.

I’d prefer if you/ the gang doesn’t reply to this as, to me, it’s pretty obvious to all who their listening to (another reminder)- just wanted to drop this here ‘screaming at the wind’ for the devs.

QQ (somewhat of a suggestion): would it be pertinent to remove things like the sorc damage class masteries (please not a heavy-handed ~all~), specifically, or provide werewolf its own ‘class masteries’ instead (this doesn’t even have to be damage, it could be low-damage-increase masteries and then utility masteries like ~oh, Hircine’s howl spreads ~50% of heal to allies in melee range or ‘purge all negative effects’ when activating rampage)

I believe this could provide merit to returning power back to werewolf itself (ZOS, this would also allow you to balance once less thing as you ‘go down the road’ and rework class masteries too- if you were to give werewolf its own set of masteries while transformed).

BattleAxe wrote: »

React wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

5pc proc set doing 17% dmg and you think the class itself is the problem?

Deal with the sets and baseline stat inflation first. Let's see the new class designs play out.

It’s not the dot from Pyrebrand it’s the heavy attack consuming Pyrebrand and or wildfire stacks just heads up.Pyrebrand already got adjusted to only give wildfire embers once every 12 seconds. Which means it’s not free damage and in PvP heavy attacks are pretty easy to avoid.

What exactly are you saying here? I must be looking at a different cmx screenshot, because the Pyrebrand in this picture is definitely not from heavy attacking, as that would imply OP was heavy attacked 99 times in 2 minutes 11 seconds.

Pyrebrand and wildfire both qualify as "free" damage, as does the burning status effect. All of it will build and proc off doing nothing outside of your standard rotation. Those three things make up nearly 40% of the damage in this particular fight, that isn't at all healthy gameplay.

Go read the tool tip on Pyrebrand. Because there is more to Pyrebrand than what it applies with light attacks.

I understand how the set works. You responded to a comment from Xylena where they pointed out that Pyrebrand was dealing 17% of the damage in OP's CMX, and you suggested that they could counterplay it because "heavy attacks are easy to avoid". Little-to-none of that damage is coming from the heavy attack portion of Pyrebrand, it is almost all coming from the light attack proc portion of the set.

So what exactly are you trying to say, again?