Apollosipod wrote: »

If you had ESO+ have you cancelled it? If so, why? I know I've ended mine based upon this year's content model, shoddy execution, and changes made in the interest of "memory saving" that have absolutely ruined the function of the gameplay for me. This isn't bait, it's intended to be a clear message to the devs on what is happening here.

Artisian0001 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

I am not sure how else to say this but...probably the actual bloody game that we bought.

GH isn't even remotely close to the original product I bought in 2014.

Instakills were rare and generally only against jank builds.

Ball groups could be scattered by siege.

You could 1v1 gank ball groupers inside their ball.

Classes and weapons defined builds, not gear sets.

Soft caps on stats prevented extreme minmaxing from breaking the meta.

Gameplay pace was slower, but fewer fights stalemated.

This is all much more like Vengeance than GH.

Ballgroups are still scattered by siege, literally all the time. A 12 man group can be pushed off a door by 4 people sieging if they do it effectively, which is insane.

You can still very much gank ballgroupers inside their group, it's just difficult, as it should be.

Stalemate fights only happen between extremely large groups over 12 people that res constantly during combat and at camps, which could easily be changed, the only other fights that stalemate are because players are not skilled enough to end fights.

The game progressed and for the better, people that complain about this stuff think an uncoordinated group of people should be able to push off a coordinated group of people which makes zero logical sense, if smaller groups could pressure larger groups, imagine what that smaller group could do if they were larger !!!! Like, none of that make sense. A bigger group of better coordinated players will kill smaller groups of less coordinated players, as well as larger groups of less skill or less coordinated players, there is nothing wrong with that, if it was any way else the game wouldn't make any sense and it would be based solely on RNG.

IDK what ballgroups you are thinking about, but seige is literally a joke. Even I only run 1vX or 4 man groups and we sit in seige all the time. Powercreep and heals are so stupidly high and easy that seige is probably doing half of what it used to.

The problem with the structure of group play in eso pvp is that because zos introduced so many group sets they created an exponential growth of stats the more players you have up to a 12 man group. Whereas back in the day it was practically linear except for a small handful of viable group sets. So as a smallman with good coordination you could potentially match a 12 man group. However with more and more stacking group sets like rallying, PA, Trans, SPC, etc these groups sit ontop of a very high exponential plateau of stats. It is not only set, but skills have bloated to the point any average build can get most necessary major/minor buffs in the game, in a group you should easily have everything. In a dying population game, catering to the largest group size possible and giving them more stats while also having the most population is a recipe for disaster, at that point it would be like giving the largest playground bully a chainsaw.

The plataeu is not a great thing because you essentially gate half the server onto the plateau only fighting each other. Which is why we see ballgroups either just fighting each other or doing boring pug stomp farms unopposed. If you did not have this plateau or less of a plateau we would see more new player involvement because the power difference would be more down to skill and coordination instead of a mountain of stats and buffs. (also just to mention if we did it in a smart enough way you could cut down on lag and unnecessary calcs)

Maybe this can visually help. The blue line represents a linear stacking of players in a group. Imagine if they were all just wearing generic stat sets. Where the green and purple signify a 4 and 12 man group running group sets like rallying cry. Keep in mind that I wrote 30+ as if you actually compare and add up the stats a group set 12 man should have the combined stats of nearly 10x the player count of generic stat sets.

Yeah, this is a common misunderstanding of how the game works or how it feels to actually be under siege pressure, or you are just unaware because smaller groups don't experience this issue, which is fine. If you are in a larger group of people you almost never want to purge or have someone that can cleanse because this would lead to plaguebreak going off and potentially killing everyone, which isn't as big of a problem in smaller groups, and shouldn't be, which is why I prefer smaller groups. The point is, if you are a larger group on a door, oils has a unique debuff that reduces healing by more than any skill in ESO can, aside from some PvE dungeons that have mechanics that will just disable it, or something like carrying the chaosball for an extender period of time. If you are not purging oils because you also have plague on you, the healing debuff, along with the damage from it and the other siege from 3 coordinated siegers, is 100% enough to push good groups off the door, and it happens very often, if you don't understand how 4 people can rotate 8 different siege extremely easily then just get 3 other friends who you think are competent and watch your own group push 12 people off a door.

I agree to your other points, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, there are sets introduced that make being in coordinated groups even stronger, that's exactly why coordinated groups SHOULD not be dying to other smaller uncoordinated groups often, as that would make no sense unless the coordinated group was full of just unskilled players. While people may dislike these sets, every single person can wear them, every single person can get in or make a group of their own. This is an MMO, playing with friends is normal, if you want to complain about bigger groups winning because they have coordination and skill, then you can go to BGs, or go to IC, or just go duel. Sure, it sucks being pushed by 12 people who have everything they need in their group, but it used to be 24 and sets like transmutation, PA, etc. still existed. Rallying cry also scales better with the fewer people you have, it still has a unique crit resist that can be given to everyone, but the devs have some interest in doing things that have benefits for smaller groups. Plaguebreak, as mentioned before, is another one of these sets. It just so happens that these sets can also be run by those in groups, but will still always function better against them then on them, if those applying can do it properly. Ballgroups have for the most part completely removed a purger from their group just because of the introduction of this set, but you see smaller groups and singular players with sometimes multiple ways to purge. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and accept that these groups will kill you, but to call them immortal like other people do is silly and loses credibility in any conversation.

xylena wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

Ballgroups are still scattered by siege, literally all the time. A 12 man group can be pushed off a door by 4 people sieging if they do it effectively, which is insane.

Nobody cares what bad groups do, and it is NOT insane for an outnumbered group to punish 12 guys who think they can just blob together and spam heal buttons to be immortal.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Grey Host has been part of the game since inception (maybe not with same name). ZOS should fix the game they created not waste time creating something new that won't help their business in any capacity.

ESO was originally marketed as a PvP game too, Cyrodiil was literally the endgame.

It sure was. Now ZOS is refusing to even try to fix Grey Host, which was an original part of the game from the beginning.

So a few points here.

First, ZOS should fix the PvP they originally designed into the game. They can fix it. It might take some effort or investment they don't want to make, but it can be done. They've done it before. They can do it again. So ZOS stating they're not even going to try fixing their product going forward is a vendor saying they're selling a product they're not going to support. This is obviously a highly self destructive business and public relations decision.

Second, if ZOS can't make their premier PvP work smoothly and reliably as it is now, they're not going to be able to make some other new system work smoothly and reliably either.

And third, if the last three days are any indication, essentially nobody will play vengeance with or without an alternative. The last three nights prime time PC NA has been pop locked for Grey Host and vengeance hasn't even filled one bar of population. Almost nobody likes vengeance.

Any investments into vengeance should be ceased immediately to save resources so ZOS can invest in actually fixing their game as opposed to creating something totally different. I mean, what's happened to all those "THEY'RE WORKING ON IT!" explanations and commitments to the player base?

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Most of what ZOS has done since and including U35 has been detrimental to the game. U35 killed the end game PvE community and showed how little ZOS will respond to customer feedback. The 10 year anniversary event was a disaster and the 2025 content was even worse. And vengeance is killing what's left of the PvP community. That leaves only the casual questers who don't sub, rarely buy crowns, and only log on a few times/week if that. ESO can not survive on that.

If everyone at ZOS isn't in crisis mode right now they're even more out of touch than their harshest critics claim they are.