As most players said, this is terrible design. The difficulty level too hard even for groups but instances are empty. Add to this that everyone has different quest or task, so you are on your own with vet group content. Companions are useless, well, this is expected at such difficulty level. All this makes it impossible to play for anyone without premaid group. Few players who are still there are completely lost with all those sand doors, puzzles, etc and before they have a chance to figure it out they already killed.

To summarize, you just made content for very small group of players who play together with premaid and preorganized groups on regular basis.

Now what about the rest of us? Just the house, that's it? We are the majority that finance the game, so where is content for us?

SneaK wrote: »

The analogies are getting worse.

Do they?

SneaK wrote: »

I’ve never played competitive soccer, but I drive by fields on my way to work, I’m gonna stop in tomorrow and play goalie. It’s really gonna leave a bad taste in my mouth if they score on me, I’ll probably say the soccer community is toxic and won’t play it again until they promise not to score when I play goalie.

Ah. Sarcasm. A skill weaponized very easily with great impact in the right hands.

Let's try it without analogies:

PVP doesn't have a mid-game. It doesn't even have a real early-game. It's end game from the start. You can decide not to play or to play against the best from the start.

Vengeance gives you two benefits:
1. You learn how PVP does work. Ram, oil, second breach, choke points. It prepares you for GH-PVP where on top of base mechanics you have setups and gear added.
2. You can play casually while having a core PVP-experience: fighting for keeps. There is nothing wrong about it.

You seem to be above that. You know how to play and you don't need casual mode as PVP is what you are doing in ESO.
That's fine. That's why I repeatedly wrote that I don't want GH being replaced by Vengeance.

But please accept that people do find different things challenging and that some need to work harder to achieve less than you did. They might just be less talented, have less time, or just have another balance between challenge and fun. Do you really want to tell them not to play ESO PVP or worse - that they need to play your kind of PVP?

Before I forget: I never wrote that the community was toxic. I wrote that Cyrodiil was. Big difference.

Everything i have seen from this zone has led to frustration.

It starts from the very beginning the icons are too different. Some people dont realise you can fast travel to the NM because the icon doesnt look like a wayshrine. I'm not sure what it is actually supposed to be. Personally spent about 10 mins looking for the three merchants because I didnt realise they too had unique items on the map rather than the merchant icon. It doesnt help that there are lots of people standing next to market stalls that dont sell anything. What kind of weird market is this?

Pretty place, dancing ogrims are fun. Not much to do in the plaza.

Secondly a big deal is made of choosing your faction and seeing what the merchants sell but... its basically the same thing except a different shoulder and a different banner? There is a dye, but thats not mentioned anywhere except the achievement tab. And im not sure why you have to go back to the curator to tell him you've made a decision only to have to go back and pledge to a flag.

Then you enter the actual districts. I only played the Parch before giving up but oh boy so many frustrations

1) its too hard. I was in a group because the news article said it would be tough to solo. I read your marketing. I didnt expect to have to be a vet trial pro to be able to do this. I also assumed the recommended group size would be a standard 4 man group, but apparebtly the group finder goes up to 12? We died immediately.
2) no one else is in the zone. Had hoped to soft group with some other groups, but ultimately only saw 3 people
3) way too easy to get separated from the group. Especially with that duneripper. Duneripper is a cool idea. Hate it in practice. If I get eaten and die, I revive on the other side of the may from my group?
4) cant share quests/quest progress. Why are we encouraged to group... but the quests are solo quests? Im just freeing little animals from cages. Its classic eso group quest stuff - but it doesnt work in the group zone.
5)navigating the parch is awful. What are those sand doors? The ones that have a poor render distance so you see a way to the desert, run/sneak/fight your way to it, only to see the sand wall pop in. They also dont really show on the map. Not being able to navigate isnt fun. Apparebtly you can get an item to bypass them but... no idea what or how?
6) boulder dash? What? Couldn't figure this out because everytime I tried i got attacked and turned back and whatever it was was over.

Ive done dungeons, vet dungeons, trials, cyrodiil, Imperial City, Battlegrounds...

I dont think i've ever had less fun in ESO than this. One of my group members actually cried because she was frustrated.

Actually maybe capture the flag in battlegrounds is less fun...


Edit: the house is really cool. Sad im never going to see the other wings. Or be able to use the bank. Feels a little ironic to make the house the best reward for such difficult content when the housing is the cozy side of the game?

I agree about the respawn timers being too fast. I joined a random pug via group finder on Xbox, and it was decent - ran around killing stuff but you literally can't take a breath. My gear was busted, so I stopped to use a group repair kit and BAM respawn.

Pause for half a minute for the group to decide where to go next BAM respawn.

Stop to pick up [random quest item] BAM respawn.

Look at the map to see where your objective is... you get the idea.

I somehow managed to get 6 pieces of a relic - Goad I think. I pledged Ruckus who are dead last on XboxNA. It was total chaos and had no clue what I was doing but it wasn't bad.

My main concern is once the zone isn't the new hotness anymore, finding groups will be difficult.

Enemies just have so much health. Took me forever to just kill a shalk. Again, fun if you have alot of people around, but that's not always going to happen. I will definitely take part with my guildies on specified times, but I'm usually on in the mornings and most of them are not. I did like that I got a weapon for a dungeon that I needed for sticker book. But only 1!!

I just wanted to start that thing. First thing I notice when arriving there is that the Curator's dialogue is unvoiced in German. Is that a bug or is it intended that way?

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Imagine if your trials and dungeons got replaced with a pve template for damage dealer, healer and tank, no sets to gain or earn, just vanilla template slop where everyone's the same and the difficulty was set to normal.

Worse, the player counts are tripled in number.

Would you like that? That's essentially what is happening here. Ultra snoozefest casual mode not even entertaining to pvers longer than two days.

No. I wouldn't. But PVP currently is a trial in Vet with HM-Bosses only which has to be accomplished within speedrun time and without a group member dying. So I don't enjoy it. I'd like to have some option to either learn and move on to harder content or to stay in a simple "casual" mode to have fun. I'd like to have a choice. Vengeance gave it to me and I enjoyed it.

And again, I don't want the classic mode to be removed. I like Vengeance to be an alternative to it, not its replacement.

I'm having a blast so far! My group all went A Thousand Eyes. How can I not choose a daedrat and a sea elf? I quite enjoyed each faction's area in the Night Market with all the different NPCs walking/running around. It feels lively and the dancing ogrims were entertaining.

I played in a 3 person group on a pure class templar.
1 tank and 2 dds, and quite a few 'greens' running around.
Mobs were easy to take down (even solo while waiting for teammates to res.) Some 'wandering bosses' were a bit difficult.

I really applaud the devs for not nerfing the difficulty. It's been great fun with our 3 man group. The duneripper wandering boss in the Parch was especially fun! I can't wait until my guild runs bigger groups for the other parts in the Night Market. Great job ZOS!

My only criticism is the rewards are a little lackluster. But the skill scrolls are interesting.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AdamBourke wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

AdamBourke wrote: »

I was expecting it to be closer to normal group dungeons in difficulty, and it feels more like vet dlc dungeon difficulty? My normal dungeon group cant do this stuff and thats disappointing as we were excited to have some group content to do outside of dungeons.

How big are the groups from the group finder? 4 people? Or more?

Maximum of 12 players

Wow then my group was way too small. Its sad, I was looking forwards to playing this with my friends, but pugging holds no interest for us so I guess we're just gonna have to stay disappointed

I've been running 6 with man groups (1T, 1H, 4D) quite comfortably. All experienced players acquainted with each other but not necessarily having played together all the time. A tight-knit 4 man group can probably do okay as long as another group is working the area, and the area isn't full of non-grouped players pulling a train of monsters through your battles.

I was nervous after all the feedback. Was tedious solo. My raid team is forming in 20 for us to go in but a different guild was just calling for people and we ended up with like 5 or 6 and just decimated the skittering district. I'm actually hoping we split the raid team, 12 optimized people will be too much.

That said, rewards are laaaame. The grind is weird. No one knows what to do. Some people had a quest to use fire things on spiders but we all got credit even without the quest, don't know how that works. RNG to get to the actual bosses is not good. Having to do it all over again to fight the trial boss again is also not fun. Beyond that though, super fun. In a group.