I see you are skeptical towards Vengeance, I hated it at first, but they designed it to address exactly these type of issues, and it does succeed to a reasonable extent.

If not Vengeance, you're gonna have to either lower your expectations, or be willing to sweat, practice dueling, and run meta builds.

My issue, but I'm not alone

I played ESO some years ago (1,6k hrs) with a support magplar and I kinda remember game is being a blast, but decided to go for a break to focus on other stuff nonetheless.

Now I'm back, trying out Arcanist, I really liked the Hermaeus Mora chapters, had quite fun times playing with my boyfriend and guildmates.. and everything was fine until I've hit lvl 50 and restarted PvP. Of course I was once again shocked by the difference between the difficulty levels of the braindead easy PvE (very looking forward to the challenge difficulty update, I think it could really save PvE) and the intense chaos that is ESO PvP.. but instead of joy, I've found frustration, rage and sadness. I'm playing since January, trying to get myself and my build together (really, I did a lot of reading and watched many videos) and I'm just still in awe how lame I perform, how disastrous this game become PvP-wise and what an awful experience I'm having;

• subclassing enforces more narrow meta options instead of opening up competent opportunities, killing class identity, making more actually less
• this results in damage and stat numbers all over the place making causal players deleted in a friction of a second without any chance to learn from the process
• it's like some people are playing a totally different game with different rules. This is not a steep learning curve, these demigods survive 3v1 situations and come out on top, this is an unpleasant, unfair, toxic chaos and honestly disrespectful towards the effort of causal players
• I and many players have zero clue how to close this power gap other than just copy paste the meta sweatlord sites and channels which is not my idea of having fun
• the desync issue is even worse than I remember(and many people are even exploiting it) like I see my arcanist beam or tentacular dread hitting my target, yet they receive no damage at all

..and due to the indescribably garbage balance between affected parties and mashup of systematic game implementation issues, people are constantly ragequitting from BGs, sadly since some weeks including me. Though there are many exciting updates incoming, they just deepen my feeling that the DEVs just literally abandoned many parts of the game in favor of introducing 'inventions' such as Battle Passes, while 80% of the traits, enchantments, potions and sets are still laughably weaker than the 20%, making the former just information noise in an already complex and comprehensive system. Many stuff are broken since years (item sets, the queue, ranking etc.) without either acknowledgement or any promise to fix.Instead of fixing PvP balance they force players to do this Vengeance nonsense. This makes me feels like the DEVs are treating a huge part of the game as just a baggage they are forced to live with, instead of integral part of the game, deserving care and love. Which is quite sad, since many contents back then were way better than what ESO received in the past year. Numbers don't lie, check your playerbase count.

A promising idea would be reforming the classes but doing so one by one is also a terrible idea, since they just result in one class being imba at current patch, atm more than half of the PvP player base consist of OP WHIPWHIPWHIP DKs doing 17k+ dmg vs 36k armor and they are still overshadowed by the monstrosities resulted from the subclassing meta - and they tell us to wait, until your class is going to be reformed. If you are dragonknight or warden, you are lucky. If you are a nightblade or templar, well, then have patience, like a year until your class will get some flavor and love. Arcanist? Who cares, they are not even on any roadmap

Help me please, I still want to enjoy the game

So really, before I cancel my subscription and uninstall a game I'd like to give it one last chance with your help: otherwise than ignoring the garbage quality of PvP in this game, which I'd refuse because I think it should be an essential part of an MMO, what can one do? I'm in a PvP guild and the best advice I've received is to 'just play meta lol', but that kinda kills the image for this game for me, like why even bother having classes and whatnot is EVERYONE is supposed to follow the same sweaty directive? Also, how to solve the endless loop of 'seeing way to tanky unkillable characters who somehow still have enough damage to erase me -> trying to be more tanky and play more defensively -> deal zero damage, still getting killed but at least slower'? How is it that there are players seem constantly blocking or having shields up while still dealing crazy damage and moving crazy fast? Again, it's crazy, like they are playing a different game

Elder Scrolls has a beautiful world, stunning depth of lore and I want to be able to love ESO as well as it has loads of lovely content and still promising ideas, but my experience in the past 3 months just made me a more desperate and irritable man, I don't remember since when I've stopped ragequitting from games but ESO brought it back, making me think, that whatever ESO became since I've left, made ESO a thing not for me. Even parts of this forum post is way more toxic than I'd like, I don't want to offend anyone, but I'm just.. so desperate.

How to deal with this? What do you think?

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Exactly. That's why I added the beholden part. It's a shame really.

MB misread that. Their existing devs show a lot of promise, maybe we could convince them to come actually play PvP with us? A lot of the glaring issues should become apparent quickly.

Hello,

I would like to raise an important concern regarding the current state of Battlegrounds, particularly the 4v4 and 8v8 modes.

In practice, these modes are often unplayable due to a significant imbalance between teams. When one side has a higher concentration of experienced and skilled players, the match effectively loses its purpose: the opposing team gets pushed back to their spawn and is unable to participate meaningfully. Instead of engaging PvP gameplay, players are left standing idle, simply waiting for the match to end.

Under such conditions, all motivation disappears. Players gain neither enjoyment nor a sense of progress—only a frustrating waste of time.

The 4v4 mode can still be justified when played in pre-made groups with relatively balanced skill levels. However, in random matchmaking, the same imbalance issues persist.

As for the 8v8 mode, the problem becomes even more pronounced. When there is a noticeable skill gap, one team completely dominates while the other is effectively trapped at their base, unable to influence the outcome of the match. This is especially discouraging for newer players, who often lose any desire to continue playing after such experiences.

The design of the 8v8 maps also raises concerns. Compared to older Battleground maps, they feel less refined in terms of balance. Previously, players could compensate for differences in skill through map knowledge, use of terrain, positioning, and kiting. Even at a disadvantage, it was possible to survive and contribute.

In contrast, the newer maps tend to feature large open spaces where such tactical options are limited. As a result, survivability decreases and the impact of imbalance becomes even more severe.

Additionally, the matchmaking system itself presents issues. Queue times for 8v8 are often quite long, and even after waiting, players frequently end up in clearly unbalanced matches. A quick look at the player list is often enough to see the disparity: one team filled mostly with newcomers, the other with more experienced players. Naturally, this raises the question—what is the point of playing such a match?

Previously, the three-team format addressed this issue far more effectively. Stronger players were distributed across multiple teams, while less experienced players were present on each side, creating a more natural balance. Even solo players could feel engaged and had a fair chance to survive and contribute.

For this reason, I would like to make a suggestion.

I am not asking to remove the 4v4 or 8v8 modes. However, I strongly encourage reconsidering the return of the three-team format, along with the older maps and the previous Battleground system. That format was significantly more dynamic, balanced, and engaging. Players were able to complete their objectives faster, participate more actively, and overall enjoy the experience much more.

This opinion is based not only on my personal experience, but also on feedback from many other players—both veterans and newcomers alike. And the overwhelming majority share the same view: the three-team Battlegrounds were far superior to the current implementation.

Thank you for your attention.