For those who think shields are not an offensive weapon and bash was rightfully nerfed

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2014

KracsNZ wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I have quite a bit of my Class Abilities and weapon abilities Unlocked. Why? So that I can transition to a build better suited to my situation.

If people decided to put their points heavily in areas so they could abuse an OP ability. While ignoring the chance to be adaptable. They don't deserve a free respect.

Your childish, irrational hatred of people who chose to use a certain spec in a video game does not mean that those people don't deserve a free respec.

Isnt it childish to infer others are infact childish when they are not?

Theres only two reasons to focus on one ability as the main damage source for a build.

1.) The Game Devs did a horrible job of creating a well thought out and useful class abilities/builds.

OR

2.) People were abusing something that was not intended to be used in the manner it was.

The childish reaction would have been to demand people be banned for such a thing.

Theres nothing childish about having the opinion that those who knowningly engaged in abusing something should not be reimbursed in the form of a respec.

Nor is it childish to think the opposite. But since this is a forum and Im free to express my opinion as long as its within the rules of the forum. I'll continue to do so in-spite of your attempt to flame.

PvP is still like that. Most people using 1 or 2 abilities + ultimate. DK mage burning talons + standard + impulse spam? How about archer spam?

Problem was it was a similar issue with bash. DK medium armor crit build + sword/shield. Burning talons + standard + shield bash, with fiery whip to pull them back into the standard/shield bash range. Or worse yet, pre-nerf vamp + mist form + bat swarm + shield bash in the middle of raids... fun fun.

The problem with the shield bash nerf, is now sword/shield is really only a tank build IMO. It is only single target, so why not let it do decent single target damage? The two decent abilities for PvP left are Puncture (for it's debuff) and Shield Charge. Defensive Posture is very situational, and likely better for tanking bosses than PvP. Power Bash is worse, the terrible stamina cost (similar to stam breaking out of it) and having the debuff (from Reverberating Bash) be single target is pointless in PvP. Easier and more efficient to just Shield Charge again, even in close range.

Shield mitigation in PvP? Maybe if I'm only in mostly light (1 heavy for Immovable) caster mode firing off Dawn's Wraith abilities with Puncture to lower their resists, then switching to destro to lay down some AoEs. Problem I see is for medium/heavy stam builds the shield mitigation is now poor use as you'll be sitting there losing your stamina without a DPS option except for your much smaller magicka pool or switching to a different weapon.

They could of fixed it in so many other ways, the sledgehammer they took to it was confusing. As I said previously, removing the mitigation when you bash (timer), removing +dmg bash jeweler, removing crit etc... could of all been viable options.

Bash was nerfed...What is the likelyhood that other abilities that are OP are going to be nerfed?

I didnt need a break down of what was wrong with Bash. Im more then aware of the issues that were present prior to the nerf. And it doesnt change my opinion that if someone stacked points (a possible 200+) in a way that completely breaks their ability to play at all post nerf. They dont deserve a respec.

Ive got over 100 points currently and their dispersed enough to give me what I need in Passives and abilities. Just about everyone of my Class Abilities Passives are maxed, both weapon slot passives and abilities are maxed and Ive got points scattered elsewhere as well.

What this tells me. Is this whole 'we deserve a respec' thing isnt about getting a respec. But instead a way to stomp their feet because Zenimax took away their favorite toy.

PVT_Parts · May 2014

I have a question for the PVPers. What exactly did bash do in PVP that was so OP? Did it stun/stop you from moving, fighting, and running? Or is it just the 230 dmg that it did? If it was so hard to counteract, isn't it still possible that a shield basher spam will still just shield bash spam you to death? I could cast it around 35-40 times on a bar of stamina because I had it built for that. Now it does what? 140 dmg with deadly bash instead of 230? So it just takes 2x as much to kill you. But it can still be cast enough to do ~6000 damage. So on a bar of stamina, can't a shield basher still kill 3 people 1 on 1 before the stamina bar is depleted? Or does it not stun/stop you from using attacks and now that it takes 2x as long it is easy to fight back? Just seems strange if it is as simple as it doing 230 damage and not stunning, because that is far from the best DPS, just the best stam to damg ratio. Can someone tell me exactly what shield bash did in PVP? Because it seems like the nerf would only effect PVE. If it did stun like everyone is complaining about, then it still stuns and will just take 2x as long to kill your character. Is this wrong thinking? It seemed like all the arguments were that you couldn't fight it, but if you couldn't fight it before, changing the damage means you still can't fight it, you will just be stuck in it longer.

pysgod1978b14_ESO · May 2014

I don't understand how people think a shield is the only viable attack that was possible. Either you're using crappy weapons, or you aren't attacking fast enough. Try hitting the left mouse button, it works surprisingly well. It almost sounds like the complainers are used to the WoW style of tab target and hit a button and let the character do all the swinging.

Requiemslove · May 2014

Primary source of attack is physical melee none skill attack, which you can do with the left mouse button. I feel that attack is actually in need of a buff, make it more powerful and tank builds who use shields I feel will be happy, especially given the fact that our S&B melee options are limited and half of which are took up [rightfully so] with the shield.

Reenlister · May 2014

pysgod1978b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand how people think a shield is the only viable attack that was possible. Either you're using crappy weapons, or you aren't attacking fast enough. Try hitting the left mouse button, it works surprisingly well. It almost sounds like the complainers are used to the WoW style of tab target and hit a button and let the character do all the swinging.

Well, I be agreeing on the shield thingy, but tell me what ye think be a grand weapon in here? This world has nary a good melee weapon, fer example, the only one I ken by heart right now is the Epic V1 sword with a base of 107 fer a hit.
now I am not a damagy person, but do tell what a straight sword swinger should be a usin' that is actually able to hit fer some decent damage to that there baddie?

KracsNZ · May 2014

PVT_Parts wrote: »

I have a question for the PVPers. What exactly did bash do in PVP that was so OP? Did it stun/stop you from moving, fighting, and running? Or is it just the 230 dmg that it did? If it was so hard to counteract, isn't it still possible that a shield basher spam will still just shield bash spam you to death? I could cast it around 35-40 times on a bar of stamina because I had it built for that. Now it does what? 140 dmg with deadly bash instead of 230? So it just takes 2x as much to kill you. But it can still be cast enough to do ~6000 damage. So on a bar of stamina, can't a shield basher still kill 3 people 1 on 1 before the stamina bar is depleted? Or does it not stun/stop you from using attacks and now that it takes 2x as long it is easy to fight back? Just seems strange if it is as simple as it doing 230 damage and not stunning, because that is far from the best DPS, just the best stam to damg ratio. Can someone tell me exactly what shield bash did in PVP? Because it seems like the nerf would only effect PVE. If it did stun like everyone is complaining about, then it still stuns and will just take 2x as long to kill your character. Is this wrong thinking? It seemed like all the arguments were that you couldn't fight it, but if you couldn't fight it before, changing the damage means you still can't fight it, you will just be stuck in it longer.

One or two builds were ridiculously over-powered in PvP, one I'm most familiar with is the DK medium crit/stam build + 3 piece bash dmg jewelry (pretty funny video of the guy taking apart groups of vets). Std dmg was closer to 350 with crits doubling that. The fact they were in full block mode doing this was OP.

It only stuns on a channel or casting non-instant spells.

At VR12 my bash is now doing 112 (legendary weapon set) without bash jewellery (I only tank with my build, use heals/dps build for PvP), so maybe with 3 piece bash dmg it might hit 193? But your stamina will deplete damn fast without bash reduction jewelery, plus the fact you're gonna be sucking air as dmg removes your stamina to.

Others are commenting about using white dmg, but sorry, 1H white damage is pitiful even with a VR12 legendary. I don't think I've died to anyone using white damage since the death recap has been added (except maybe bows). All spell/weapon powers. Yes, I'd agree that if melee weapon white dmg (particulary 1H) was substantially buffed the bash issue might well go away.